Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.8.17] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[DoctorSargePep]

Jen has fans?

For me its similar to when dealing with Arona for the first few times,talking all that good "I'm badass" mess then I win and it's

 

[MogwaiKupo]

There is such a thing as going too little tho, if only she had a bigger bust, I don't care bout her mosquito bites (something closer to Clementine for example, not huge bimbo boobs but at least ANYTHING, almost can't blame Leofric from being a horndog in a world where sexing your enemy is almost the local custom when THAT manequin is what waits for him back at the camp)

Just like how Lyric has their fans because they're the only developed shortstack, Jen's bound to have some as well because because she's the only delicious flat chest in the game. It's easy to garner a fanbase when nobody is competing in your niche. Clementine's a great example, everyone in the games a massive whore, so finding someone who's actually conservative is a breath of fresh air. Whereas you're less likely to find people who like Arona exclusively because she's a futa femdom.
Have to agree though, as much as I don't like Cait, someone like her would be an objectively better lay than Jen by a country mile.

 

[NaturalEnclave]

Alright, I am kinda curious, so I'll probably need historians for this.
What are the exact origins of "Power Fantasy"? At this point, it's practically a meme, yet I wasn't able to find too many posts on the official forums explain that exact vision. Cause part of me wants to be a devil's advocate and see what was the context of that phrase originally to know if people are twisting and taking this idea out of context. Or, alternatively, I want to see what sort of weird concept of "no power fantasy" devs took that resulted in current state of the game.

 

[Raf-Raf]

Alright, I am kinda curious, so I'll probably need historians for this.
What are the exact origins of "Power Fantasy"? At this point, it's practically a meme, yet I wasn't able to find too many posts on the official forums explain that exact vision. Cause part of me wants to be a devil's advocate and see what was the context of that phrase originally to know if people are twisting and taking this idea out of context. Or, alternatively, I want to see what sort of weird concept of "no power fantasy" devs took that resulted in current state of the game.

It's pretty much the inside joke of this forum now where anything that players ask for something that doesn't line up with the devs' player cucking fetish is a no no and yes, the reply was because it is in fact, power fantasy.

 

[Archaon11111]

With Jen, "hate sex" would just end up being "hate to sex"

Her scenes ain't bad

 

[MagnaSonic3000]

Someone should make a mod that's just called Power Fantasy. The story is mostly the same, but there's little interjections the player can make to just fuck over whoever might be causing the player problems that day. Steal girls from people just because you can, have a dedicated fuck off button where the player can just insult whoever they're talking to seemingly at random, and the ability to kick certain characters directly in the balls at your leisure.

 

[YouShallNotLol]

Alright, I am kinda curious, so I'll probably need historians for this.
What are the exact origins of "Power Fantasy"? At this point, it's practically a meme, yet I wasn't able to find too many posts on the official forums explain that exact vision. Cause part of me wants to be a devil's advocate and see what was the context of that phrase originally to know if people are twisting and taking this idea out of context. Or, alternatively, I want to see what sort of weird concept of "no power fantasy" devs took that resulted in current state of the game.

I believe it started a very long time ago, and grew as time went on. It all began with them cutting out player's transformation options. It started gradually, with cutting out such transformations as centaur lower body and lamia lower body. Then they started cutting down player's agency.
As time went on, it kept snowballing into "pOweR FaNtasY, Reeee!!1" we all know and hate.

That's also the reason why there's such a distinct tonal whiplash between older quests and newer quests when one compares them side by side.

 

[Fiz1247]

Alright, I am kinda curious, so I'll probably need historians for this.
What are the exact origins of "Power Fantasy"? At this point, it's practically a meme, yet I wasn't able to find too many posts on the official forums explain that exact vision. Cause part of me wants to be a devil's advocate and see what was the context of that phrase originally to know if people are twisting and taking this idea out of context. Or, alternatively, I want to see what sort of weird concept of "no power fantasy" devs took that resulted in current state of the game.

If I am correct some where there's a quote of a writer stating that Savin said he hates power fantasies.

 

[Skandranon]

Alright, I am kinda curious, so I'll probably need historians for this.
What are the exact origins of "Power Fantasy"? At this point, it's practically a meme, yet I wasn't able to find too many posts on the official forums explain that exact vision. Cause part of me wants to be a devil's advocate and see what was the context of that phrase originally to know if people are twisting and taking this idea out of context. Or, alternatively, I want to see what sort of weird concept of "no power fantasy" devs took that resulted in current state of the game.

It's a meme that's been blown way out of proportion around here, you shouldn't take it too seriously.

 

[Quintilus]

It's a meme that's been blown way out of proportion around here, you shouldn't take it too seriously.

Senfield intro theme starts playing

 

[MagnaSonic3000]

You know what else is power fantasy?

Savin thinking he's a good writer.

 

[NaturalEnclave]

It's a meme that's been blown way out of proportion around here, you shouldn't take it too seriously.

Yeah, that's kinda what expected. It's just that part of me wonders if there was some copypasta worthy original messages that started the whole thing preserved in some archives or something like that.

 

[Alterism]

Alright, I am kinda curious, so I'll probably need historians for this.
What are the exact origins of "Power Fantasy"? At this point, it's practically a meme, yet I wasn't able to find too many posts on the official forums explain that exact vision. Cause part of me wants to be a devil's advocate and see what was the context of that phrase originally to know if people are twisting and taking this idea out of context. Or, alternatively, I want to see what sort of weird concept of "no power fantasy" devs took that resulted in current state of the game.

Let's see
Thumbs through tombs of history
I'm sure I have it here somewhere. Savin went into greater detail awhile back about it

Fairly reasonable on the surface.

As for why it's a meme?
Aside from the usual from Savin himself:

It's been used by a variety of writers to shut down options, berate fellows in arguments, and general be used as to why "no actually you won't get to flip the tables on the minotaur guards" and what have you

Most of the time perpetuated by the main man and TobS

Most push back, back when it happened got waved off as wanting power fantasy. So now it's used by the other non discord communities (oh wait they're all dead) as a joke when somebody asks for anything that could benefit the player experience.

 

[Mrbark1234]

Let's see
Thumbs through tombs of history
I'm sure I have it here somewhere. Savin went into greater detail awhile back about it

Fairly reasonable on the surface.

As for why it's a meme?
Aside from the usual from Savin himself:

It's been used by a variety of writers to shut down options, berate fellows in arguments, and general be used as to why "no actually you won't get to flip the tables on the minotaur guards" and what have you

Most of the time perpetuated by the main man and TobS

Most push back, back when it happened got waved off as wanting power fantasy. So now it's used by the other non discord communities (oh wait they're all dead) as a joke when somebody asks for anything that could benefit the player experience.

Kinda love the way everything they have ever said is documented like were getting ready to pass the evidence to ace attorney

 

[muschi26]

The difference between a generic power fantasy experience and a good branching narrative, in my humble opinion:

1. Not everything goes your way all the time, and sometimes there’s just nothing you can do about it
2. If you want good things to happen to you, you have to earn them

3. Actually meaningful branches in the narrative, maybe?

By the by, bad things happening and there being “just nothing you can do about it” is pretty insipid. The more interesting idea is to have bad things come about as a consequence of you making tough decisions, as in the example he gave from The Witcher.

It doesn’t matter if you’ve become the Dark Lord three times on your playthroughs of DS1; some naked zombie with a torch can still kill you if you aren’t paying attention.

But if you are paying attention, you can get through the entire game without getting hit a single time. This is also a weird comparison, because it has to do purely with the mechanical aspects of Dark Souls, and not the various sidequests (which is where the branching and “bad things happening despite all your efforts” take place).

 

[Alterism]

3. Actually meaningful branches in the narrative, maybe?

By the by, bad things things and there being “just nothing you can do about it” is pretty insipid. The more interesting idea is to have bad things come about as a consequence of you making tough decisions, as in the example he gave from The Witcher.



But if you are paying attention, you can get through the entire game without getting hit a single time. This is also a weird comparison, because it has to do purely with the mechanical aspects of Dark Souls, and not the various sidequests (which is where the branching and “bad things happening despite all your efforts” take place).

Oh heck. I might as well try and be brief.

As to the topic Savin's talking about where things don't go your way in the souls series.
The other side of this is that things actually DO go your way in Souls games. The gameplay is stacked against you but you have the opportunity to succeed and succeed in style. Regardless of what the 'cannon' endings eventually end up being you have the option of choice.
This starts all~ the way to the fact that you can axe anybody. Some of which DO need axing. Yurt the silent Chef cooking up something nefarious in DeS? Impress him with the dish which consists of gravity and high velocity impact which produces quite the impressive Yurt shaped pancake.

This freedom expresses itself in everything (provided the player has the skill). Cast anything, be anything, choose your own ending. Help Ostrava to the end or pop him early for an early key to Old Burger King's shop of oneshot. Rescue Solaire or *ahem* let him find his sun. Get married, become bacon, or blow out the candles.

NPCs may have a terrible fate happen to them. Astraea's days were always numbered, for example. But, this is hardly something you as a player care about when it comes to taking satisfaction from the game.

Mind you, Savin has a bit of a point. There are a lot of games on this website where Chad McThundercock MC only needs to look at a woman and she trips over friends and family to take his manhood into herself. All while he has the most repulsive personality known to mankind.

There has to be balance in all things. The main goal after all is entertainment. You need a strong narrative, likeable characters, a solid plot, good setting, and great flow of the adventure.
I may despise 'golden' endings in games with every fiber of my being. This is specifically because of the obscure requirements to even reach them where they show up. But, I can't deny the fulfillment you can get when you get the ending where almost everybody is happy

Unless you're playing an NTRPG
That's probably the only genre of game where the main goal isn't to make the player attach themselves to their world proxy for the purpose of personal gratification. Err... Depending on the game, at any rate.

Kinda love the way everything they have ever said is documented like were getting ready to pass the evidence to ace attorney

TiTS and CoC2 is just a bunch of "oh this might be interesting one day at some point"s thrown into a small folder and mostly depend on my working memory to keep straight.

Now the working tomes I actually make for things I DO like?

Spoiler: Off topic example of a certain game

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Between the compiling, checklists of things relevant to me, sheets, formulas, presentation (even though it will never be shared ever ever), and more?
Yeah that uh... That takes awhile

A habit born from writing guides and writing articles in my youth.

 

[Mrbark1234]

But if you are paying attention, you can get through the entire game without getting hit a single time

Right just gonna butt in and say that is the most insulting thing i've heard someone say about a hitless run in dark souls it takes thousands of hours to memorise the patterns learn when to dodge and on top of that the mental pressure is insane for you to boil it down to just pay attention bruh hurts my soul

 

[muschi26]

Right just gonna butt in and say that is the most insulting thing i've heard someone say about a hitless run in dark souls it takes thousands of hours to memorise the patterns learn when to dodge and on top of that the mental pressure is insane for you to boil it down to just pay attention bruh hurts my soul

That’s not the point I was trying to make at all. What I meant is that the combat of Dark Souls—which Savin was using as an example of how things could go wrong—is a poor parallel; because unlike say the sidequests in that game (which usually go wrong in some way regardless of what you do), the combat is 100% in the player’s hands and—with total mastery, as you rightfully point out—can be executed flawlessly, achieving a perfect result. (The equivalent in a VN would be making all the right choices and getting the secret harem ending.) This goes against what Savin was trying to demonstrate, namely that things go wrong and the player can do nothing about it.

 

[MagnaSonic3000]

At least there's an Anon mod for CoC so I can just let the chans purge the retarded shit, even if some of the content isn't finished either, but at least they weren't the main developer of the game.

I think Savin played a Rance game and he was mentally shocked that Alicesoft can make decent games with a lot of rape and now he tries to make all of his asshole male characters emulate Rance in some idolization of him, except Rance still has more personality to him than anything he produces.

 

[Biostar]

snip

I commend you for your archive diving. Revisionist history is so annoying.