Sacred_Lamb

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Sep 15, 2024
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No bro, my point is not about people engaging in this and that because they are weak and the furry game twisted them, I'm talking about part of your audience not being able nor willing to understand that by writing about something you're entertaining an idea which doesn't mean you necessarily endorse nor believe in said idea, they do take things in a literal sense and with a malicious interpretation.
That's retard, innit?

Think of the big disclaimer warning about mature content and people getting mad they skimmed the warning and are now exposed to said content
In a game where it's main thing is you reading, you didn't read the warning place in bold, weird thing is that happens so often. Lol

A good dev would be able to introduce said content while coaching and guiding the writer, you don't need to go full gore and violence, but the edgy stuff should be there in some capacity while also being able to deflect bad faith criticism in order to protect the writer, then again, that if they really would've wanted to add corruption, which they don't
Shit, I think they have a vendetta against it at this point.

think it was Mask of Death or something like that, goes from two schoolgirls hanging out at their elite school to pain, so much pain

Also read "you after the rain", that one is good too
Didn't realize the guy wrote Mai-chan daily life porn...as if Mai-chan wasn't going through it already.
 

Sacred_Lamb

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Sep 15, 2024
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View attachment 5448566
If this is not the type of ending i can get once this game is finished i will be bery disappointed.
LOL, that's power fantasy bro, they don't do that. :Kappa:


You can enjoy "Witch of Steel Annerose". Same universe as Taimanin, but instead of the usual rapening (only in the bad ends), it follows a male protagonist serving under the titular Annerose (and having lots of romance and sex with her).
My favourite Taimanin game, period.
Thank you, mythical pull!
Annerose's game is infinitely less fucked up than any other Taimanin games. The main heroine never even gets raped in the canonical good ending route.
If you can't handle even that... Then you better stay away as far as possible from Taimanin series.
Chubbs is a pure boi, he will happily drink his milk and eat his toast.
 

Chris20

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Apr 28, 2024
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LOL, that's power fantasy bro, they don't do that. :Kappa:
You mean to tell me that the game that brags about total freedom, sexual deviance, in a fantasy world full of races, creatures, magic, ways to become inmortal and change your race, the game that allows you to play with any kind of body you want....you mean to tell me that a game that have everything for a power fantasy dont do power fantasy?
 

gembunny

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You mean to tell me that the game that brags about total freedom, sexual deviance, in a fantasy world full of races, creatures, magic, ways to become inmortal and change your race, the game that allows you to play with any kind of body you want....you mean to tell me that a game that have everything for a power fantasy dont do power fantasy?
The main two writers hate it so yes.
Unfortunately if you want power fantasy TiTS is your best option, and for the case of corruption there's always the first game. In this you're neutered to hell save for actually getting neutered.
 
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ChubbyFatBoy

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Aug 19, 2024
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Chubbs is a pure boi, he will happily drink his milk and eat his toast.
breaking-bad-right.gif

Don't let my constant posting of weird shit fool you! I am very much vanilla.... ish... adjacent.... in that general area. I've kept things relatively tame despite my professional gooner level. But I'm very much the romance, lovey dovey, and happy ending enjoyer.

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Jbuster

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That's retard, innit?


In a game where it's main thing is you reading, you didn't read the warning place in bold, weird thing is that happens so often. Lol


Shit, I think they have a vendetta against it at this point.


Didn't realize the guy wrote Mai-chan daily life porn...as if Mai-chan wasn't going through it already.
Baby blender guy just wanted to make everyone feel awful and he was pretty good at it

Yeah, even in the text game there are people that won't read, how do they play it?, I don't know. Even when I'm skimming parts I do so by glimpsing at key stuff to have a general idea, that if I didn't read the whole thing before

Now the thing is that you shouldn't use those people as a shield to avoid things, they will complain regardless. Savin does that, "people don't want this or that, no one wants to do it", is an excuse, there's someone willing out there, he just doesn't wanna do the leg work nor let someone else do the editing part of the more extreme content, which is funny considering the gobbo rape event


Why they hate it?, power fantasy does not mean bad writing or low quality, man, such wasted potential.
Because the players love it, and they can't let people enjoy things

View attachment 5451160

Don't let my constant posting of weird shit fool you! I am very much vanilla.... ish... adjacent.... in that general area. I've kept things relatively tame despite my professional gooner level. But I'm very much the romance, lovey dovey, and happy ending enjoyer.

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A man of vision in a quest to turn the ethereal demon beyond reality into the cute housewife she was always meant to be
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Tsubuhaza

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Why they hate it?, power fantasy does not mean bad writing or low quality, man, such wasted potential.
Petulance.

Savin got blasted for not delivering things he promised and then reacting poorly when people called him out on it. Tobs took on his pain, for whatever reason.

Consequences from that have reeled ever since, which is particularly funny when you remember the people who called him out on it are probably mostly gone from this project's fanbase.
 

Sacred_Lamb

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Sep 15, 2024
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You mean to tell me that the game that brags about total freedom, sexual deviance, in a fantasy world full of races, creatures, magic, ways to become inmortal and change your race, the game that allows you to play with any kind of body you want....you mean to tell me that a game that have everything for a power fantasy dont do power fantasy?
Exactly unless cucketry or in service to Savin's futa-dream, we're cooked. Plus I could argue none of the races or magic really matters because they rare alter or change anything in the scheme of the story/location/character.
 
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Sacred_Lamb

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Sep 15, 2024
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Don't let my constant posting of weird shit fool you! I am very much vanilla.... ish... adjacent.... in that general area. I've kept things relatively tame despite my professional gooner level. But I'm very much the romance, lovey dovey, and happy ending enjoyer.
Sir we would like to see your gooner card. You'll be receiving a penalty for dishonesty.

So as you can see. The internet has only partly cooked me.
My apologies
 
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I'm curious as to what they did edit, but the catch is as to whether it'll get implemented or not. Logic dictates that Savin's futa boner will probably get in the way again, but we'll see where that goes.
Unless our joking manifested futa Clementine, I assume the change was either minor grammer and syntax edits and Savin just accepted it with a plan to just reject it and make a show of how benevolent he is or to have it without Oreo tied to it for some reason.

Well, we could look it up in this very forum, but I do vaguely recall Oreo just sort of told everyone that we could do just about anything with it. So I guess someone did?

Good luck getting it past the Fustapo, though.
Honestly my problem isn't so much that people got together and tried again to get the doc in, I don't know who did it or what editing/changes may have been made so I'll reserve judgement, it's that snide ass response from Savin that is the problem. It's messed up that he refers to some community writers and their work in such a way when they're providing free labor and he's all too happy to run people off and cannibalize their work or decide that if it includes his fetishes then it's perfect.

Savin can't claim "quality" when his and his golden boi's writings are bereft of quality or proof reading.

Why they hate it?, power fantasy does not mean bad writing or low quality, man, such wasted potential.
Savin has a rather deluded view that power fantasy means no stakes. He believes that if there's no severe struggle then the narrative has no stakes and isn't worth it. Here's a screenshot, lol have another one lurkers, of him trying to justify his stance I just found.
Opera Snapshot_2025-11-19_092533_forum.fenoxo.com.png
Savin pretty much proves he can't comprehend narrative conflict with this though, or even his own stance. To address his point A, stories require conflict in most cases and genres but Savin seems convinced that if there isn't nonstop conflict then it isn't good. The "Too bleak stopped caring" trope comes to mind. If you add nothing but conflict and things not going the protagonist's way then the story is just torture porn.

To point B, this is directly at odds with his own game. You don't earn shit, you get told you ain't shit and the game world will be just fine without you. Additionally neither point takes into account him and his friends indulging their own power fantasies through their characters having everything go their way and only have good things happen to them and recieve things without earning them or the earning effort being on the player's end.

So Savin's own design views don't even actually manifest in game or in his own writing. But then he goes the extra mile by trying to use examples to back up his philosophy and in doing reveals that he's a dumbass who is just trying to justify himself. The Witcher is dark fantasy setting but it is a power fantasy. Geralt is enhanced beyond regular human limits and has access to things others simply don't. He's also an accomplished sword fighter and is involved in and with several key figures and events in the setting. That all sounds pretty power fantasy adjacent. Additionally the difficult choices are a narrative binary due to the game's RPG inspired narrative. Geralt is also friends with pretty powerful people who either deeply respect him, view him as a great friend, or want to jump his bones. Boom power fantasy. But the thing Savin took away is dark fantasy and bad situations=good writing inherently and just ignored everything else that makes it a compelling narrative. It also handles having powerful side characters better. No one overshadows the other and as important as Ciri's raw power is, so to is her emotional connection and self-esteem that the player and Geralt influence. Similarly the characters compliment each other's strengths and weaknesses. For all Geralt's strengths, he isn't gonna be building and repairing magical Skype artifacts. Similarly if you told Yennifer to sword fight someone she'd probably look at you cross ways, chuck the sword, and use lightning fingies. Each character has strengths and weaknesses. None of this is present in Savin's writings and shows he doesn't understand his own point or example.

The Dark Souls one is easier to talk about, he seems to think that the gameplay story separation is actually narratively important and doesn't consider whether or not those level 1 runs are canon to the narrative. Also killing Satan with nothing but your underwear, a rusty butter knife, and pure audacity sounds like a power fantasy. Also his crossed out part about being buthurt nothing in a prior game mattered speaks volumes about Savin himself.

TL: DR Savin is a dumbass who doesn't even understand his own design philosophy.

My writings may be amateur as fuck but I at least admit I'm better at the theory than the practice and don't lord brownie points over others like Savin does.

Maybe he hates mods so much because he fears they'll purge his attempts at making the player struggle and ruin his perceived artistic integrity.

Spoiler: The only thing I've expanded on is who or what the partner is.
How I Met Your Mother really went off the rails but she seems nice. Better than the original ending.

I Tobs'd again I'm sorgy
 

Chris20

Member
Apr 28, 2024
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Savin has a rather deluded view that power fantasy means no stakes. He believes that if there's no severe struggle then the narrative has no stakes and isn't worth it. Here's a screenshot, lol have another one lurkers, of him trying to justify his stance I just found.
View attachment 5451503
Savin pretty much proves he can't comprehend narrative conflict with this though, or even his own stance. To address his point A, stories require conflict in most cases and genres but Savin seems convinced that if there isn't nonstop conflict then it isn't good. The "Too bleak stopped caring" trope comes to mind. If you add nothing but conflict and things not going the protagonist's way then the story is just torture porn.

To point B, this is directly at odds with his own game. You don't earn shit, you get told you ain't shit and the game world will be just fine without you. Additionally neither point takes into account him and his friends indulging their own power fantasies through their characters having everything go their way and only have good things happen to them and recieve things without earning them or the earning effort being on the player's end.

So Savin's own design views don't even actually manifest in game or in his own writing. But then he goes the extra mile by trying to use examples to back up his philosophy and in doing reveals that he's a dumbass who is just trying to justify himself. The Witcher is dark fantasy setting but it is a power fantasy. Geralt is enhanced beyond regular human limits and has access to things others simply don't. He's also an accomplished sword fighter and is involved in and with several key figures and events in the setting. That all sounds pretty power fantasy adjacent. Additionally the difficult choices are a narrative binary due to the game's RPG inspired narrative. Geralt is also friends with pretty powerful people who either deeply respect him, view him as a great friend, or want to jump his bones. Boom power fantasy. But the thing Savin took away is dark fantasy and bad situations=good writing inherently and just ignored everything else that makes it a compelling narrative. It also handles having powerful side characters better. No one overshadows the other and as important as Ciri's raw power is, so to is her emotional connection and self-esteem that the player and Geralt influence. Similarly the characters compliment each other's strengths and weaknesses. For all Geralt's strengths, he isn't gonna be building and repairing magical Skype artifacts. Similarly if you told Yennifer to sword fight someone she'd probably look at you cross ways, chuck the sword, and use lightning fingies. Each character has strengths and weaknesses. None of this is present in Savin's writings and shows he doesn't understand his own point or example.

The Dark Souls one is easier to talk about, he seems to think that the gameplay story separation is actually narratively important and doesn't consider whether or not those level 1 runs are canon to the narrative. Also killing Satan with nothing but your underwear, a rusty butter knife, and pure audacity sounds like a power fantasy. Also his crossed out part about being buthurt nothing in a prior game mattered speaks volumes about Savin himself.

TL: DR Savin is a dumbass who doesn't even understand his own design philosophy.

My writings may be amateur as fuck but I at least admit I'm better at the theory than the practice and don't lord brownie points over others like Savin does.

Maybe he hates mods so much because he fears they'll purge his attempts at making the player struggle and ruin his perceived artistic integrity.
Wall of text, to make things practical:

A. Savin point of view:

1. Power fantasy means a story with no stakes and growth for the characters.
2. You dont earn what you get, victory is hollow and the story has no meaning.

B. Your evaluation:

1. Power fantasy and a compelling narrative are no mutually exclusive.
2. Savin contradict himself and does not understand his stance.

C. What i think:

The power fantasy is merely another theme, what matters is the execution of the idea, the key is to understand that you need to make the story something that the players identify with, make us care about what is happening and the characters. The last sovereign and Superhuman are examples of this, dark fantasy games with stakes and a protagonist with personality that struggle, Savin does not understand the whole point of the Hero's Journey.

1763578462128.png
 
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yuzuyo

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The Witcher is dark fantasy setting but it is a power fantasy. Geralt is enhanced beyond regular human limits and has access to things others simply don't.
I don't agree with this perception. To give a different example, look at WH40K: would say a space marine is an example of power fantasy? I wouldn't. Being powerful and well connected is not the same as living a power fantasy. The power fantasy is how an ugly goblin like him (except in W3) can get laid without paying.

Power fantasies are frequently dogshit, worthless wankery, so I agree with Savin's position of being against it, at least most of the time. The problem is that they go the opposite way and make the champion completely irrelevant. If a fragile human being in our world can be influential and at the same time so incredibly fragile, why not give the players something to make them feel like they achieved something, even if they can't go around slaying gods? Giving us hard-earned power and influence would solve the debacle. The Wayfort feels worthless and easily gotten, despite the game supposedly not being a power fantasy. Trials in Tainted Space, but a bit toned down would be enough.

Struggling like a son of a bitch in Wizardry makes everything feel sweet when your party gets very powerful and every single one of your members can cast mage spells. Actual progression. No more save scumming to keep me safe from packs of bandits.
 
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Chris20

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Power fantasies are frequently dogshit, worthless wankery, so i agree with Savin's position of being against it
I dont agree:

1. Don't confuse execution with concept: A bad power fantasy is just bad storytelling.

2. Any genre has dross: Romance novels can be cliché-ridden, literary fiction can be pretentious, and mysteries can be formulaic. Similarly, a poorly executed power fantasy is bad because of its weak plot, one-dimensional characters, and lack of conflict—not inherently because it is a power fantasy.

3. The framework is neutral: The power fantasy is a narrative framework, like a tragedy or a comedy. What matters is what the author does with it. Is the power used to explore interesting ethical dilemmas? Does it come with a cost? Does it reveal something about the character? A skilled writer can use a power fantasy to tell a profound story.
 

yuzuyo

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A skilled writer can use a power fantasy to tell a profound story.
There isn't a single exceptionally written power fantasy novel in the history of humankind. You know where power fantasies sell well? Manga, anime, capeshit comics. The only way to make anything worthwhile out of it is by making something like One Punch Man. There's no high literature based on power fantasy and there'll never be. It doesn't hold itself together under scrutiny, make it for the weebs.

It can still be enjoyable. I enjoyed WOTR. Is it something to write home about? No. The gameplay's still enjoyable, despite the hordes of enemies, so that's worth something.
 
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