Except yet again, all of this is predicated on real world logic. This setting is sex positive to a rediculous degree, almost as if it's a game where the primary focus is porn. This doesn't fit the legal definition of grooming as we understand it because there is no abuse, sex isn't viewed as shameful and whore priestess is a legitimate lifestyle. It's basically a porn game version of boarding school, complete with embarassing communal changing rooms.
Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.8.4] [Savin/Salamander Studios]
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harem.king
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harem.king
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This is just silly. If you see X happening, and dev says "it is a fantasy so don't trust your own lying eyes", then dev is full of shit.
Suspension of disbelief does not mean "toss logic out the window".
We can suspend our disbelief and accept that magic is real, that a bunch of hedonist mages in a mountain produced an infecious self replicating "corruption" energy, that this energy can push a soul out of a person and replace it's function, which turns that person into a demon.
But what we can't accept is for dev to show us something and say to ignore it. We cannot accept when dev just breaks his own rules and says "lol, its magic bruh, I don't have to explain tits"
This kind of behavior results in broken suspension of disbelief.
There is a step beyond willing suspension of disbelief called Bellisario maxim / MST3K mantra / leave your brain at the door.
Which demands fans to ignore small plot holes because "limited budget" and "small team".
You seem to be going a step further beyond Bellisario. And into the territory of communist propaganda.
"Ignore your lying eyes citizens. Doublethink is mandatory and is doubleplusgood"
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What do you mean predicated on real world logic? It's what it is and some of what it is draws on real world common sense.
Cait goes out of her way in other conversations to say how the initiates weren't exposed to anything too racy until they came of age.
What is of age in this world?
Well no brainer it's spelled out. 18.
Yet in other conversations, such as what was outlined and listed, she'd seen more than what she should have seen as regarded by other conversation points.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. Bad writing is bad writing and the logic you're using is the same logic that bad critics use to excuse the deteriorating quality of various other medium that has already been thoroughly deconstructed and rebutted by people more passionate about these topics than I am. "Ah well it's made for 'X' or it's just a 'Y" so it's okay to be bad."
Yes it's a fantasy world so nothing matters and no logic applies whatsoever and everything is up to interpretation, right? I disagree.
Secondly these statements and observations wouldn't even be brought up if they weren't written.
Gianna isn't that bad, her owner was just an ass. What happened to Yammi kinda sucks but Iced Teats (heh) isn't actually part of the NT exosystem. Only Reaha tries to explore darker angles for no reason whatsoever. Myrellion was supposed to be a traditional gold good red bad story that got mishandled into the disaster it is right now, that nobody will ever touch or resolve for no good reason.
When you open the door to deeper narrative, you open yourself up to criticism. And this criticism was that the religion should have never been explored or explained if it was going to be done so comically poorly.
Welllll, she does have a BDSM dungeon iirc full of pregnant unwilling torture victims.
In which your character can decide to "punish" her by banging her in front of said victims.
harem.king
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Which one of them. kas or cait?
I'm not sure how to explain more clearly without getting into subjective morality and I'm really not invested enough to have that conversation. I only responded in the first place because someone implied that anyone not perpetually frothing at the mouth about the temple is probably a pedo and that kind of dismissive tribalism is a bugbear of mine.
I think the issue people are having isn't the cat temple grooming. No one cares about the imaginary children living in Savin and Tobs' heads. It's that there's no consistancy when it comes to who gets morally judged. The only difference between "bad" cultists that do horrendous shit and Kassyra/baby temple cats is that on the one side you have a dude named Tollus that no writer/reader lusts after, and on the other side you have characters to simp for. Yeah Tollus is a piece of shit scumbag, but so is Kassyra. Only difference is which one appears in Savin's wet dreams. There's no coherency there outside of bias. The hypocrisy in the writing is just beyond blatant, to the point where you start to question why they bother trying to write serious plot/lore when they'd just be better served sticking to the porn and writing around that instead of trying to poorly craft a setting.
Tsubuhaza
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CoC3 - Futas on Parade
harem.king
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Subjective morality has nothing to do with this.
We are arguing about reality, not morality.
Morality: "Is X a good or a bad thing?"
Reality: "Did X happen?"
You are trying to argue that, even if I we all saw X happen with your own eyes, it didn't because authority figure (dev) said it didn't. This is simply the authority figure lying. And demanding I engage in doublethink.
I know X happened because I saw it. We all saw it.
I believe X is evil, because of my morality. But that is irrelevant to the argument.
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harem.king
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This is literally the exact opposite of what you were replying to.
> Not taking a high horse
> Call a spade a spade
At no point has Alterism ever argued that "anyone who is not frothing at the mouth in rage against this is a pedo". That is literally the opposite of what he actually said.
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Femboys and Futas
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I was referring to the post I responded to which started the chain, not the post you've linked there, then again given the overall level of reading comprehension you've displayed I'm expecting far too much.
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Comiies
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Man even if this was a honest to heart sequal of coc1,coc1 itself had a contradictin story that just didnt make sense and even if that wasnt enough savin contraditcs and retcons the story in coc2,feelsbandman
A CoC1 worthy sequel would have recurring breedable Goblins, curse Savin and his beta cuck phobia over the superior shortstack breeder race that Goblins are!
Meatshield236
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It's fun watching porn game enthusiasts run face first into Death of the Author in real time. The problem, for me at least, is that, as harem.king said, the there's a contradiction between what the authors have said and the text they wrote. CoC 2 spends a lot of time fleshing out the world and setting, to the point where it details a lot of stuff that would be perfectly find not getting many details (see, everything to do with the corruption) with a decent level of consistency. Not great (the consistency, that is), but not the worst I've seen.
The basis for said world building is "typical fantasy thing, but horny." So you have 'typical fantasy temple, but the priests whore." The problem is that it's attempting to place a layer of logic to something which fundamentally runs off of porn game logic, AKA: complete nonsense. If they didn't spend so much time detailing histories, cultures, and so on, all of which have some basis in real world logic, then they wouldn't invite us to apply real world logic to the setting in the first place. Hence why everyone has a problem with the temple: it's applying real world ideas (religions taking in orphans and the unwanted and raising them to be members of the clergy) to porn game ideas (religion of sex crazed cat girls who all want to fuck you.) Hence why people call it a groomer cult: it's the uncomfortable, but logical, result of when those two ideas combine. Do I think this was their intention? Fuck no. But it's literally their job to make sure this sort of thing doesn't happen. It's a failure of both the writing and the setting that "the catgirl sex cult grooms its followers" is a logical idea to have in a game about fucking catgirls.
Truthfully, a setting this horny would have fundamentally different cultural norms and structures. You wouldn't get 'typical fantasy town #246,' you'd get something completely different because the way people are wired (for being all horny all the time) would be different. What that would be... would be an exercise in world building that's beyond the scope of this comment. It's obvious this whole setting is just their DnD campaign world that they've transposed to this game. And them having this setting for their own private games is fine. But when it's a product people are paying for? And it's still this mess of porn game logic thrown into a typical fantasy setting without any thoughts as to how any of it would play out? That's when the willing suspension of disbelif stops and the criticism starts.
The basis for said world building is "typical fantasy thing, but horny." So you have 'typical fantasy temple, but the priests whore." The problem is that it's attempting to place a layer of logic to something which fundamentally runs off of porn game logic, AKA: complete nonsense. If they didn't spend so much time detailing histories, cultures, and so on, all of which have some basis in real world logic, then they wouldn't invite us to apply real world logic to the setting in the first place. Hence why everyone has a problem with the temple: it's applying real world ideas (religions taking in orphans and the unwanted and raising them to be members of the clergy) to porn game ideas (religion of sex crazed cat girls who all want to fuck you.) Hence why people call it a groomer cult: it's the uncomfortable, but logical, result of when those two ideas combine. Do I think this was their intention? Fuck no. But it's literally their job to make sure this sort of thing doesn't happen. It's a failure of both the writing and the setting that "the catgirl sex cult grooms its followers" is a logical idea to have in a game about fucking catgirls.
Truthfully, a setting this horny would have fundamentally different cultural norms and structures. You wouldn't get 'typical fantasy town #246,' you'd get something completely different because the way people are wired (for being all horny all the time) would be different. What that would be... would be an exercise in world building that's beyond the scope of this comment. It's obvious this whole setting is just their DnD campaign world that they've transposed to this game. And them having this setting for their own private games is fine. But when it's a product people are paying for? And it's still this mess of porn game logic thrown into a typical fantasy setting without any thoughts as to how any of it would play out? That's when the willing suspension of disbelif stops and the criticism starts.
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A hypothetical.
Let's say CoC II Redone happens, and the team behind it finally gets their shit together:
-the world has good lore that doesn't contradict itself, instead building a comprehensive world
-combat/inventory/movement mechanics are smooth and good
-characters (npcs or companions if there will be any) are likeable and have good backstory, interactions and qeustlines
-the player character is in the spotlight again and the game is back to being a player-driven powerfantasy
-your choices in fact matter and game can be completed with various outcomes
-devs close all forms of communication, their forum circlejerk vanishing into the mist
BUT, there is a tradeoff:
-all characters are furries or scalies, at least the sexable ones
-all chatacters are futas and shemales, men and women barely existing
-lead dev's OC is back at it again being the (2nd this time) most important character in the story
-the devs write only their fetishes and nothing else, even if you don't like it
-updates don't happen until a piece of content is fully done and integrated with the rest of the game
-game bricks if you try to mod it
Do you take the trade? Does it make it better or worse for you? It's the only way I could see it happened if they actually buckled to all the (rigthful) criticism, while probably still keeping their schenanigans. Or that's my hypothesis, at least.
Let's say CoC II Redone happens, and the team behind it finally gets their shit together:
-the world has good lore that doesn't contradict itself, instead building a comprehensive world
-combat/inventory/movement mechanics are smooth and good
-characters (npcs or companions if there will be any) are likeable and have good backstory, interactions and qeustlines
-the player character is in the spotlight again and the game is back to being a player-driven powerfantasy
-your choices in fact matter and game can be completed with various outcomes
-devs close all forms of communication, their forum circlejerk vanishing into the mist
BUT, there is a tradeoff:
-all characters are furries or scalies, at least the sexable ones
-all chatacters are futas and shemales, men and women barely existing
-lead dev's OC is back at it again being the (2nd this time) most important character in the story
-the devs write only their fetishes and nothing else, even if you don't like it
-updates don't happen until a piece of content is fully done and integrated with the rest of the game
-game bricks if you try to mod it
Do you take the trade? Does it make it better or worse for you? It's the only way I could see it happened if they actually buckled to all the (rigthful) criticism, while probably still keeping their schenanigans. Or that's my hypothesis, at least.
harem.king
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The question is off for me.
I have dropped the current game and don't play it anymore.
And I have zero interest in this hypothetical remake.
So whether the deal is accepted or not, makes no difference, either way I won't be playing.
The biggest dealbreak in the remake hypothetical you described is the "all futas and shemales", which I find unattractive.
A porn game that does not get you off is a failure.
Also, the "tradeoff" of "game bricks if you try to mod it"...
the game is already super hostile to mods. The last mod friendly game from that company was CoC1.
So it's completely unmoddabble already? I know it's no good on that front and I haven't seen any mods; game bitches even about edited saves.