3.20 star(s) 32 Votes

-CookieMonster666-

Message Maven
Nov 20, 2018
13,125
19,673
Some good news and bad news (at least for me)

The good one: seems the dev is working again on the game
The bad one: it's changing to a kind of free roam/sandbox...

View attachment 4637529
I know that a lot of folks hate sandbox, and that's obviously fine. Personally, I don't care about the format of a game generally, as long as it's not a nightmare of grinding and management. I play a lot of adult sandbox games so am already more than used to playing in that format for mature content.

I'm looking forward to seeing the new version of the game when BabysWithRabys has that ready. I suppose F95Zone will keep the old format (VN) and then have separate downloads for the sandbox version. Ofc, that means the VN version will remain forever incomplete.

While we now realize the dev always wanted to do the sandbox format, I think it was a mistake to do this halfway through the game (or however far into it this was). Changing mid-game tends to turn out very badly for developers; because of site rules I can't name specific games here, but you can absolutely easily find them on this site. Hopefully he won't get too many supporters jumping ship over this, although I wouldn't blame those who do. Getting players used to a game being a particular way and then doing a sudden sharp turn into something considerably different isn't a good idea.
 

MrKoala

Newbie
Feb 27, 2018
37
55
I know that a lot of folks hate sandbox, and that's obviously fine. Personally, I don't care about the format of a game generally, as long as it's not a nightmare of grinding and management. I play a lot of adult sandbox games so am already more than used to playing in that format for mature content.

I'm looking forward to seeing the new version of the game when BabysWithRabys has that ready. I suppose F95Zone will keep the old format (VN) and then have separate downloads for the sandbox version. Ofc, that means the VN version will remain forever incomplete.

While we now realize the dev always wanted to do the sandbox format, I think it was a mistake to do this halfway through the game (or however far into it this was). Changing mid-game tends to turn out very badly for developers; because of site rules I can't name specific games here, but you can absolutely easily find them on this site. Hopefully he won't get too many supporters jumping ship over this, although I wouldn't blame those who do. Getting players used to a game being a particular way and then doing a sudden sharp turn into something considerably different isn't a good idea.
I think the problem most people have with sandbox games isn't the format itself but the kind of game design it seems to encourage.

Multiple clicks for simple tasks. For example just going to work I have to click to leave the room, go down the stairs, out the house, enter the world map, enter the work location, then click to actually do the work, and if the dev is especially devious there'll be some kind of minigame or multiple events to click through while working.

Useless timewasting daily activities that you have to do to keep your stats up. Things like taking a shower, using the bathroom, eating breakfast, etc. don't add anything to gameplay except a bunch of extra clicks. God bless the devs who either automate or just ignore mundane tasks like your morning routine.

Of course we can't forget about the obligatory stamina or time system (they are functionally the same thing) that only allows you to do like three things in a day but two of those are basically mandatory like going to work or the gym so you can really only do one different/interesting thing in a day.

Any of these could potentially be implemented in an interesting way that actually adds to the game. I've personally seen these systems done well here and there but the vast majority of the time they are just boring repetitive padding that only serves to make you feel like the 5 minutes of actual content isn't over in just 5 minutes.
 

-CookieMonster666-

Message Maven
Nov 20, 2018
13,125
19,673
I think the problem most people have with sandbox games isn't the format itself but the kind of game design it seems to encourage.

Multiple clicks for simple tasks. For example just going to work I have to click to leave the room, go down the stairs, out the house, enter the world map, enter the work location, then click to actually do the work, and if the dev is especially devious there'll be some kind of minigame or multiple events to click through while working.

Useless timewasting daily activities that you have to do to keep your stats up. Things like taking a shower, using the bathroom, eating breakfast, etc. don't add anything to gameplay except a bunch of extra clicks. God bless the devs who either automate or just ignore mundane tasks like your morning routine.

Of course we can't forget about the obligatory stamina or time system (they are functionally the same thing) that only allows you to do like three things in a day but two of those are basically mandatory like going to work or the gym so you can really only do one different/interesting thing in a day.

Any of these could potentially be implemented in an interesting way that actually adds to the game. I've personally seen these systems done well here and there but the vast majority of the time they are just boring repetitive padding that only serves to make you feel like the 5 minutes of actual content isn't over in just 5 minutes.
What you say is fair. However, I only rarely have seen "5 minutes of actual content" when a new release comes out for a sandbox game. There might be huge gaps in time for continuing a single event (like pass a full week or something), but it's not very common from what I've personally seen that there's only 5 minutes of non-sandbox content for a release. It seems much more common to me that there are a few events that each progress a reasonable amount.

Generally it feels more like twenty minutes to a half-hour's worth of content per release. But that is dependent on a few different things too. It varies by developer ofc, it depends on development cycle (monthly releases will usually have a lot less content added in a single release for obvious reasons), and like you said, it depends on how the sandbox has been implemented. The dev can choose serious grind, but they can also make it pretty light. I also dislike major grind, although I suspect I have higher tolerance for what I consider "serious grind" than others.
 
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Skode

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2020
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What you say is fair. However, I only rarely have seen "5 minutes of actual content" when a new release comes out for a sandbox game. There might be huge gaps in time for continuing a single event (like pass a full week or something), but it's not very common from what I've personally seen that there's only 5 minutes of non-sandbox content for a release. It seems much more common to me that there are a few events that each progress a reasonable amount.

Generally it feels more like twenty minutes to a half-hour's worth of content per release. But that is dependent on a few different things too. It varies by developer ofc, it depends on development cycle (monthly releases will usually have a lot less content added in a single release for obvious reasons), and like you said, it depends on how the sandbox has been implemented. The dev can choose serious grind, but they can also make it pretty light. I also dislike major grind, although I suspect I have higher tolerance for what I consider "serious grind" than others.
Well sandbox games have unique strengths which VNs can never really get away with. They tend to be light handed when it comes to character development so they make a little go a long way with events, they tend to have repeatable events which add to the replay of any given update and there is almost always a focus on a metric shit tonne of vaginas to purse to repeatedly bang (animated in general too). They really are the instant gratification genre of porn games so for long term fans who have put in the grind and now just access several GBs of sex scene after sex scene whilst waiting for updates and when those updates do land? You can often just hyper focus on the content you want with the girl you want which is of course something VNs cannot do.

Sandboxes and VNS can offer the same amount of content an update, same amount of sex scenes and lines of dialogue but fans of Sandboxes tend to be much happier with said content and VN enjoyers who of course have to find they are enduring much deeper story and character development to get to the stuff they want or god forbid they are rejecting love interests and finding indeed updates to be much shorter than they would like because of course they are skipping it. Sandboxes do not usually endorse skipping content, in fact you often find it is mandatory to pursue everything with a pulse to further unlock more content with other girls. I love both dearly but i can certainly see why one would see the same amount of content but less content with one type of game comparative to another.
 
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-CookieMonster666-

Message Maven
Nov 20, 2018
13,125
19,673
Well sandbox games have unique strengths which VNs can never really get away with. They tend to be light handed when it comes to character development so they make a little go a long way with events, they tend to have repeatable events which add to the replay of any given update and there is almost always a focus on a metric shit tonne of vaginas to purse to repeatedly bang (animated in general too). They really are the instant gratification genre of porn games so for long term fans who have put in the grind and now just access several GBs of sex scene after sex scene whilst waiting for updates and when those updates do land? You can often just hyper focus on the content you want with the girl you want which is of course something VNs cannot do.

Sandboxes and VNS can offer the same amount of content an update, same amount of sex scenes and lines of dialogue but fans of Sandboxes tend to be much happier with said content and VN enjoyers who of course have to find they are enduring much deeper story and character development to get to the stuff they want or god forbid they are rejecting love interests and finding indeed updates to be much shorter than they would like because of course they are skipping it. Sandboxes do not usually endorse skipping content, in fact you often find it is mandatory to pursue everything with a pulse to further unlock more content with other girls. I love both dearly but i can certainly see why one would see the same amount of content but less content with one type of game comparative to another.
Obviously the two approaches are very different from each other. But skipping sandbox content you don't want to see is effectively the same as in a VN either cutting off LIs you don't want or Ctrl-skipping through scenes you don't care about. The vast majority of adult sandbox games appear to be made in Ren'Py, which means you can skip just the same way as you do in VNs. Sure, you might have management mechanics, like time of day, money, etc., but not all sandboxes do that type of thing.

Many people act like it's just a matter of format of the game generally, though. However, I've seen plenty of grinding required in non-sandbox games too: tutoring the same student again and again until they are "grateful" enough to remove a single item of clothing; or "accidentally" walking in on someone in the shower, repeated 20 times to lower their inhibitions step by step. The problem isn't actually the game format, but the mechanics the dev chooses to use.

Grinding is generally disliked everywhere, with only a low percentage of people actually enjoying that type of thing. I absolutely hated the constant grind of Dungeon Siege, for example, even though it was overhead isometric in style like the Diablo series. There is a right way and a wrong way to implement gameplay, mechanics, and features.

Unfortunately, especially in adult games, it seems devs tend to use sandbox as a reason to add grind mechanics. For example, creating a vast set of locations but then having practically nothing happen in most of those can be a bad experience. For something that should require careful analysis and hunting around (like, say, a crime scene investigation type of game), this is fine: you are, after all, slipping into the shoes of someone who would IRL have to sift through a bunch of locations looking for clues that may or may not be present. But if your goal is only to find a LI at a specific location and time to interact with them, having players hunt is silly; good direction of where / when to go is important in those cases.

So yes, sandboxes can very easily be done poorly. But there are legitimate, good uses of sandbox too.
 
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Fappable One

Active Member
May 14, 2020
764
1,029
I think the problem most people have with sandbox games isn't the format itself but the kind of game design it seems to encourage.

Multiple clicks for simple tasks. For example just going to work I have to click to leave the room, go down the stairs, out the house, enter the world map, enter the work location, then click to actually do the work, and if the dev is especially devious there'll be some kind of minigame or multiple events to click through while working.
I know what you mean. That last photoshoot was fucking tedious on my mouse finger :(
I get it's a big part of the story, but it took me completely out of it I quickly exit on the game out of frustration once it was over
 
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MrKoala

Newbie
Feb 27, 2018
37
55
What you say is fair. However, I only rarely have seen "5 minutes of actual content" when a new release comes out for a sandbox game. There might be huge gaps in time for continuing a single event (like pass a full week or something), but it's not very common from what I've personally seen that there's only 5 minutes of non-sandbox content for a release. It seems much more common to me that there are a few events that each progress a reasonable amount.

Generally it feels more like twenty minutes to a half-hour's worth of content per release. But that is dependent on a few different things too. It varies by developer ofc, it depends on development cycle (monthly releases will usually have a lot less content added in a single release for obvious reasons), and like you said, it depends on how the sandbox has been implemented. The dev can choose serious grind, but they can also make it pretty light. I also dislike major grind, although I suspect I have higher tolerance for what I consider "serious grind" than others.
Yea I was being hyperbolic, that's a much more reasonable assessment of the point I was trying to make.

Well sandbox games have unique strengths which VNs can never really get away with. They tend to be light handed when it comes to character development so they make a little go a long way with events, they tend to have repeatable events which add to the replay of any given update and there is almost always a focus on a metric shit tonne of vaginas to purse to repeatedly bang (animated in general too). They really are the instant gratification genre of porn games so for long term fans who have put in the grind and now just access several GBs of sex scene after sex scene whilst waiting for updates and when those updates do land? You can often just hyper focus on the content you want with the girl you want which is of course something VNs cannot do.

Sandboxes and VNS can offer the same amount of content an update, same amount of sex scenes and lines of dialogue but fans of Sandboxes tend to be much happier with said content and VN enjoyers who of course have to find they are enduring much deeper story and character development to get to the stuff they want or god forbid they are rejecting love interests and finding indeed updates to be much shorter than they would like because of course they are skipping it. Sandboxes do not usually endorse skipping content, in fact you often find it is mandatory to pursue everything with a pulse to further unlock more content with other girls. I love both dearly but i can certainly see why one would see the same amount of content but less content with one type of game comparative to another.
Sandboxes absolutely have their own strengths, despite my post I do personally enjoy sandbox games. There's a certain amount of roleplay you can do with the choices in a sandbox that just doesn't come across the same in a VN, they just grind my gears sometimes. On the other hand NV are also not infallible, they are more heavily reliant on good writing which could go south with just at any point.

The only part I really disagree with you on is the grind. Once you've done an event once unless there's some kind of random element or different outcome there is really no benefit to the player to do it again. Going through the same shower peeping scene for the 10th time is never going to be interesting. Maybe it does lead to a more interesting scene later but the grind it took to get there doesn't make that scene any better.
 

jI11jaCksjAkk

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2023
1,394
3,250
Lets be fair here, 90% of all games on this and similar sites are going to end up as abandonware regardless of the genre, playstyle, engine, or fetish.
Maybe, but the point is that changing from a non-sandbox to a sandbox (or the reverse) is almost universally a red flag of death. Sandbox lovers bitch about stories that require lots of reading that don't have infinite choices and 897 replay possibilities; AVN lovers hate endless, pointless clicking with slow story progression where you can't see 90% of the content without replaying the same mediocre story ad nauseum. So there is not a huge overlap of players who enjoy both equally.

Changing from one to the other is usually a sign of desperation from a dev that implies panic that interest in their game as it is has waned significantly (bad story, long delays, etc.), so they decide to try and make the game more attractive to the other half of players who may not yet know about the dev-side problems that caused the waning interest in the first place.

But of course, like leopards devs never change their spots, so the same dev will soon end up alienating any new fanbase with the same issues. They're not changing their behavior, they are just trying to lure in new subscribers when many of their previous ones have bailed. Sadly they are more willing to completely change the structure of their game (with all the work that entails) than put in the work to win back their original fans by fixing the problems that drove them away. I'm sure there have been games that have made the switch one way or the other and survived, but I havent seen them (or played any for very long after they switched).
 
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dreamtype

Member
Jan 6, 2022
207
309
Some good news and bad news (at least for me)

The good one: seems the dev is working again on the game
The bad one: it's changing to a kind of free roam/sandbox...

View attachment 4637529
It looks more like it will be a point and click adventure. (Sandbox to me means GTA or something.) All types of H-games are fine with me as long as they don't make it really grindy or challenging. Though my personal preference is pure Visual Novels.
 

J.R.

Engaged Member
Jan 2, 2020
2,128
3,986
It looks more like it will be a point and click adventure. (Sandbox to me means GTA or something.) All types of H-games are fine with me as long as they don't make it really grindy or challenging. Though my personal preference is pure Visual Novels.
I do play a few sandbox/free roam games, but I also prefer VNs.
Unfortunately, there hasn't been a single message from the developer in his Discord since the post you quoted from early March...
 
3.20 star(s) 32 Votes