I don't understand the difference between drawstyle and render in filament implementation. If filament can display a decent pic in viewport why can't the pic be rendered as is?
Daz Iray ramblings. [Daz 4.14.1.22 is out / Not that much bug edition]
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Could be. I think it's fixable though. DLSS is a good example of something with similar drawbacks that later implmentations dramatically improved. DLSS 1.0 to me just made everything blurry. DLSS 2.0 legitimately improves the image when upscaling and some types of features even look better than native res (notably text and other features with clear lines). I suspect some AI refinement would probably resolve any issues current denoisers might have with skin or other materials. Maybe they just didn't train the algorithm enough on skin textures or something.
I haven't done any rendering in awhile though. I had to reformat and reinstall Windows recently and have decided to wait til I build a new system before I get back into rendering. My poor GTX 1050Ti is just too slow to justify doing much more on. I learned a lot messing around with it but for any serious rendering I want at least an RTX 3080, which at least in my area is currently vaporware.
One technique I've seen some devs use as an alternative to a denoiser is to render at a much higher res than they're going to use in game, stop the render before it's really finished, and then downsample to a lower res. So you still have some averaging/blurring going on but it's based on a higher detail original. The problem is rendering at higher res is going to require more time so that's not really ideal either if you know you're just going to cut it from a 4k image down to 720p or whatever.
I suspect the ideal method would involve some sort of hybrid combination of DLSS and denoiser where you maybe start the render off at a higher res to give the render engine some extra texture info at maximum detail and then downshift to the lower res you actually want without the denoiser washing out all the detail. Then again I'm not an AI dev so maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about...
In theory nothing. Now, how well it's implemented and where do they set the quality bar it's another one. It could just be using a very degraded shader for viewport purpose only, for all we know.
I'm not familiar with DLSSCould be. I think it's fixable though. DLSS is a good example of something with similar drawbacks that later implmentations dramatically improved. DLSS 1.0 to me just made everything blurry. DLSS 2.0 legitimately improves the image when upscaling and some types of features even look better than native res (notably text and other features with clear lines). I suspect some AI refinement would probably resolve any issues current denoisers might have with skin or other materials. Maybe they just didn't train the algorithm enough on skin textures or something.
I haven't done any rendering in awhile though. I had to reformat and reinstall Windows recently and have decided to wait til I build a new system before I get back into rendering. My poor GTX 1050Ti is just too slow to justify doing much more on. I learned a lot messing around with it but for any serious rendering I want at least an RTX 3080, which at least in my area is currently vaporware.
One technique I've seen some devs use as an alternative to a denoiser is to render at a much higher res than they're going to use in game, stop the render before it's really finished, and then downsample to a lower res. So you still have some averaging/blurring going on but it's based on a higher detail original. The problem is rendering at higher res is going to require more time so that's not really ideal either if you know you're just going to cut it from a 4k image down to 720p or whatever.
I suspect the ideal method would involve some sort of hybrid combination of DLSS and denoiser where you maybe start the render off at a higher res to give the render engine some extra texture info at maximum detail and then downshift to the lower res you actually want without the denoiser washing out all the detail. Then again I'm not an AI dev so maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about...
so can't comment on that, and outisde more AI training, a quick fix should be an ability to flag any surface for denoising. One can dream, but I don't know if it's technically possible, they all seem to be tied in an "all or northing" approach - a bit like pixel filters. Well you could do it via LPE and rendering in layers, but you're gonna lose your hairs. Another thing should be an option to provide automatically buffers (like at least normal pass) for the denoiser before it starts, a bit of extra time but better quality overall. On other hand, with 3090 on the menu, not sure if all of this really matter anymore .
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- Jun 10, 2018
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New rambling:
One has to start a render or iray preview to generate tone mapping and environment render nodes
PS: For everyone who hasn't noticed: Daz Studio Pro Beta 4.12.2.51 was released yesterday.
I didn't have much time to test it, but it seems every major bug from the previous versions was fixed, + filament as viewport drawstyle and optix 7.1 (including nvidias native AI denoizer) is finally there.
One has to start a render or iray preview to generate tone mapping and environment render nodes
PS: For everyone who hasn't noticed: Daz Studio Pro Beta 4.12.2.51 was released yesterday.
I didn't have much time to test it, but it seems every major bug from the previous versions was fixed, + filament as viewport drawstyle and optix 7.1 (including nvidias native AI denoizer) is finally there.
Not a fan of tonemap/env. nodes, it adds more noise on something that can be already messy. But I kinda get why they added that crap. They really did the bare minimum with Filament, even as a viewport it's shit and inaccurate to use for Iray, won't even bother in that state. I would love to test further but I got CPU fallback when using Iray Cam/any Iray section plane and OOT hairs (ie Marigold), this alone just break half of my scenesNew rambling:
One has to start a render or iray preview to generate tone mapping and environment render nodes
PS: For everyone who hasn't noticed: Daz Studio Pro Beta 4.12.2.51 was released yesterday.
I didn't have much time to test it, but it seems every major bug from the previous versions was fixed, + filament as viewport drawstyle and optix 7.1 (including nvidias native AI denoizer) is finally there.
.I am still on public release 4.12.0.86 but I just bought a RTX 3090. Do I need to use the new beta? How long usually between beta and public?
Also, how CPU bound is Daz3D now that I have a 3090? I am still on a overclocked i5-3570K. My understanding is that outside of rendering Daz3D is single threaded.
Also, how CPU bound is Daz3D now that I have a 3090? I am still on a overclocked i5-3570K. My understanding is that outside of rendering Daz3D is single threaded.
You will need to run the beta, but it installs alongside the release build, so you've got nothing to lose, especially since you can't use that 3090 with the release build. If you can run games on that CPU, you should be okay with DS.
Is Daz going to cease support for GTX9xx and older GPU for 4.12.2.xx onward? I got an error for unsupported CUDA driver for my GTX980 and new Nvidia drivers only go back to GTX1xxx. Public Release 4.12.1.xx does not have problem with my GTX980.
- Jun 10, 2018
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- 22,797
I've seen some people reporting this in the daz forum as well, also there is another update available, maybe it's fixed already?Not a fan of tonemap/env. nodes, it adds more noise on something that can be already messy. But I kinda get why they added that crap. They really did the bare minimum with Filament, even as a viewport it's shit and inaccurate to use for Iray, won't even bother in that state. I would love to test further but I got CPU fallback when using Iray Cam/any Iray section plane and OOT hairs (ie Marigold), this alone just break half of my scenes
The gtx 7xx gpus got dropped with the latest beta, but not the 9xx. I haven't heard of anything regarding the 9xx cards.
I couldn't get 980 to work in the beta but my 3090 just arrived so I have to use the separate RTX driver set anyway and uninstall the 980.
Does each beta and public release use its own installation? I customize some UI elements and not sure if I have to do it again and again with new beta and when the public release becomes official.
Not sure how optimized 3xxx cards are in this beta but my 3090 is easily 4x faster than my 980 in rendering, although I don't think dForce is getting similar boost. Not having to worry about dumping to CPU is a huge time saver
Filament looks kinda weird but I am not technically proficient to describe why. Does it not work with fibermesh eyelashes and eyebrows? In filament they look like missing textures so it's less useful than using texture/shaded mode.
Does each beta and public release use its own installation? I customize some UI elements and not sure if I have to do it again and again with new beta and when the public release becomes official.
Not sure how optimized 3xxx cards are in this beta but my 3090 is easily 4x faster than my 980 in rendering, although I don't think dForce is getting similar boost. Not having to worry about dumping to CPU is a huge time saver
Filament looks kinda weird but I am not technically proficient to describe why. Does it not work with fibermesh eyelashes and eyebrows? In filament they look like missing textures so it's less useful than using texture/shaded mode.
Can only see that this week end but I doubt. Could be my pirated version. I could try to fix it but If I remember right you can't 'unbake' a custom Iray shader.
They really did the bare minimum, no shaders, didn't see any Filament shader brick in the shader mixer while I looked (so you can't make your own), own tonemap node... Basically Filament use few maps on the Uber iray shader it recongnize (iirc color, bump normal) and that's about it.
More likely a typo.
Anyway can't make 4.12.2.54 and Iray section plane to work. Almost tried everything under the sun. I was thinking it was coming from custom Iray shader, but I could finally make it crash the samy way with just a single uber iray skin. I can already feel the joy to rollback and reinstall all the plugins and layout.
Daz 4.14.0.8 is out (general release and beta), no change log .
Iray section plane still crashes Iray
Just tested with 4.14.0.8 Beta should be the same with the general release.
.Iray section plane still crashes Iray
Just tested with 4.14.0.8 Beta should be the same with the general release.
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Damn you were right
- Jun 10, 2018
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Yeah they did their usual thing, not fixing bugs, don't listening to beta users, release general release version anyway...Daz 4.14.0.8 is out (general release and beta), no change log
Iray section plane still crashes Iray
Just tested with 4.14.0.8 Beta should be the same with the general release.
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Damn you were right
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) . I remember reading that Daz devs themselves writting docs & changelogs on their free time lol (tell you a bit about the company).You don't have permission to view the spoiler content.
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I got about 15% faster Iray Renders with the last betaa few weeks ago.
Not related to iray, so i hope it's ok to ask here
Somewhere at the daz I read about changes/improvements to the ik system in the beta version, but I couldn't find anything in the changelogs.
Someone knows what that's about?
Not related to iray, so i hope it's ok to ask here
Somewhere at the daz I read about changes/improvements to the ik system in the beta version, but I couldn't find anything in the changelogs.
Someone knows what that's about?
May be wrong but I don't remember reading anything about this, outside fixing long time bugs with timeline in 4.12.2.51.
Also Filament/Iray uber shader by MEC4D (it's damn slim lol)
