Daz Iray ramblings. [Daz 4.14.1.22 is out / Not that much bug edition]

[tk99]

May be wrong but I don't remember reading anything about this, outside fixing long time bugs with timeline in 4.12.2.51.

I've seen it somewhere in the beta discussion thread in the last ... don't know ... 6-8 weeks?
If I stumble over it again, I'll ask again

Also Filament/Iray uber shader by MEC4D (it's damn slim lol)

I've tried Filament following the promoted YT vid.
It's looking nice and for sure it's much more faster than Iray.
But compared to Iray, the quality can't keep up, imho.


But as long Filament doesn't support mesh lights (and a few other things) it's a "no thanks" for me.

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

I've tried Filament following the promoted YT vid.
It's looking nice and for sure it's much more faster than Iray.
But compared to Iray, the quality can't keep up, imho.


But as long Filament doesn't support mesh lights (and a few other things) it's a "no thanks" for me.

Well I didn't expect for Filament to catch Iray - but at least to push for some kind of middle ground. And yeah it doesn't support any Iray emissives far I know. The replies by MEC4D in that

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are quite informative about Filament.

Granted I'm a stupid amateur, but I don't get what Daz wants to do with it.

As it is :

-It's a bad viewport to use with Iray (scene does not match at all) and too

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.
-It's bad for rendering (barebone implementation, no proper shader and so on).

I expected a Lidl Eevee but it's even worst, I stand corrected .

 

[31971207]

With the 4.14 release I am seeing dedicated Filament products popping up on Daz store. Does this mean there will be another fork like Iray vs. 3Dlight?

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

With the 4.14 release I am seeing dedicated Filament products popping up on Daz store. Does this mean there will be another fork like Iray vs. 3Dlight?

In that state it's rather impossible. Got a link? I'm curious \o/

 

[31971207]

In that state it's rather impossible. Got a link? I'm curious \o/

When I visited daz3d store yesterday the first few things popped up are Filament products. I am guessing Filament made animation possible in Daz that Iray couldn't. Wonder if a fork is likely in the future.

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

When I visited daz3d store yesterday the first few things popped up are Filament products. I am guessing Filament made animation possible in Daz that Iray couldn't. Wonder if a fork is likely in the future.

lol yeah no
Daily reminder Filament is a Google Android render made for phone tho. PBR that is but it stop there.

 

[Hold]

God, these foolish broke the "Iray Section Plane Node" this time.
Now I need to search for the installer from 4.12.
This is exactly what I planned to do today.
The Daz team keeps the quality bar as always.

 

[recreation]

Note the render settings in Daz 4.14

 

[HeroineAdventures]

Daz really screwed this up, or Nvidia not sure who to blame for this.

I rely on my iray interior camera in 80% of my scenes so now I have to remove all the walls and hope I won't pan the camera around too much...

really angry about this, especially because I'm now forced to use this version because I have a 3090 that doesn't work in 4.12

I hope everyone blows up their support ticket mail line

 

[MaxCarna]

So far, nothing is working properly with PBR. Anagenessis is looking like plastic skin. Ghost lights also didn't work

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

Daz really screwed this up, or Nvidia not sure who to blame for this.

I rely on my iray interior camera in 80% of my scenes so now I have to remove all the walls and hope I won't pan the camera around too much...

really angry about this, especially because I'm now forced to use this version because I have a 3090 that doesn't work in 4.12

I hope everyone blows up their support ticket mail line

Try enabling section caps. Worked for me \o/.

So far, nothing is working properly with PBR. Anagenessis is looking like plastic skin. Ghost lights also didn't work

Iirc they cleaned a lot of 'obsolete' shader bricks, not sure if it's related.
Oso's dual layer shader instant crash for me.
Seems no problem for ghostlights at least for me :

 

[recreation]

All bad shit and ramblings aside, I recently went from 4.12.0.86 to 4.14 and I can tell you one thing:

Spoiler

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My render times are much shorter, iray preview doesn't crash anymore (but it has a few other bugs, like not hidding assets when deactivated while in iray preview), it loads much, much faster, it's actually usable even in big scenes.
Look at this:

Spoiler

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That's a fully furnished house with lots of objects and lights inside and it's in iray preview mode.
In 4.12 Daz would've either take ages to produce a decent image or it would've simply just crashed, especially when I moved the cam or changed stuff. I started creating that house in 4.12 a while ago and continued working on it in 4.14 yesterday for roughly half a day, almost always in iray preview mode, even loaded new objects while in iray preview and it didn't crash once!

So yeah they screw a lot, but for once they did something right^^

 

[Baka_Energy_studios]

One question: Do i have to use filament with DAZ 14 or can i update my old version of DAZ and just ignore that setting/engine completely without any fuss?

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

All bad shit and ramblings aside, I recently went from 4.12.0.86 to 4.14 and I can tell you one thing:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

My render times are much shorter, iray preview doesn't crash anymore (but it has a few other bugs, like not hidding assets when deactivated while in iray preview), it loads much, much faster, it's actually usable even in big scenes.
Look at this:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

That's a fully furnished house with lots of objects and lights inside and it's in iray preview mode.
In 4.12 Daz would've either take ages to produce a decent image or it would've simply just crashed, especially when I moved the cam or changed stuff. I started creating that house in 4.12 a while ago and continued working on it in 4.14 yesterday for roughly half a day, almost always in iray preview mode, even loaded new objects while in iray preview and it didn't crash once!

So yeah they screw a lot, but for once they did something right^^

Yeah performance wise I think it's the best Iray build update since... RTX upgrade maybe? Shit fast .
Not sure if my eyes playing tricks on me but Normal map seems to render way better, it's quite visible on proper textile texture.

One question: Do i have to use filament with DAZ 14 or can i update my old version of DAZ and just ignore that setting/engine completely without any fuss?

You don't have to use Filament at all and stick with Iray, it just give you another option.
So far it's rather raw. It can be fun for rendering animations, but don't expect much quality wise without better implentation imo.

 

[Domiek]

As for stand alone denoiser. I think they are good for hard surfaces, but in the optic that people here are making porn game and that human skins and textiles are mostly king of the show, they create more disasters (plastic doll effect, paper made clothes...) than anything imo. It completely washes any details/bump/normals and way too much destructive, even more as most people don't use any buffers with it. So far I still think the best way to deal with bad noise is a better lightning/material setting routine, or PS if everything fails.

I actually tested this the other day since Blender has all 3 denoisers, Optix, Nvidia and Intel.

Optix was by far the worst when it came to keeping details. It's great for viewport denoising and possibly just hard surface renders but skin textures seem to get washed out even at higher iterations.

Nvidia and Intel were comparable but the Intel denoiser seemed the best at retaining details, even tiny skin bumps and micro displacements. Depending on the render, you can get away with 500/1000 samples pretty comfortably.

If you're really concerned about washing out details, you can always mix the denoised image with the raw render in whatever post-proc software you use for pretty good results.

 

[recreation]

I actually tested this the other day since Blender has all 3 denoisers, Optix, Nvidia and Intel.

Optix was by far the worst when it came to keeping details. It's great for viewport denoising and possibly just hard surface renders but skin textures seem to get washed out even at higher iterations.

Nvidia and Intel were comparable but the Intel denoiser seemed the best at retaining details, even tiny skin bumps and micro displacements. Depending on the render, you can get away with 500/1000 samples pretty comfortably.

If you're really concerned about washing out details, you can always mix the denoised image with the raw render in whatever post-proc software you use for pretty good results.

View attachment 899031

Agreed, that's pretty much what I experienced when I compared the Daz denoizer with external denoizer, intel keeps most details, but tends to also keep a bit grain sometimes (which is fine by me). I also mix the denoised and the original render most of the time if I use denoizer.

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

I actually tested this the other day since Blender has all 3 denoisers, Optix, Nvidia and Intel.

Optix was by far the worst when it came to keeping details. It's great for viewport denoising and possibly just hard surface renders but skin textures seem to get washed out even at higher iterations.

Nvidia and Intel were comparable but the Intel denoiser seemed the best at retaining details, even tiny skin bumps and micro displacements. Depending on the render, you can get away with 500/1000 samples pretty comfortably.

If you're really concerned about washing out details, you can always mix the denoised image with the raw render in whatever post-proc software you use for pretty good results.

As I obsess a bit over skin details, I tend to have a conservative/non destructive approach. So never really been fond of denoisers. While Optix is by far the worst offender of the trio I think too, you're still gonna give up on details no matter what. Less with an albedo/normal buffer indeed, but only to an extend.

There is much less destructive way to crank rendering time I mean, should really be used only in case of 'everything-failed-so-bad' imo. Of course if you're rendering 1500 frames that does not apply.

 

[Baka_Energy_studios]

You don't have to use Filament at all and stick with Iray, it just give you another option. So far it's rather raw. It can be fun for rendering animations, but don't expect much quality wise without better implentation imo.

Thanks. Good to know that i don´t have to dabble with that. Still not sure if i should upgrade though, last time it fucked up my library and i had to add my directories in the same sequence as before or DAZ wouldn´t load anything properly.

 

[tk99]

HOLY SHIT THIS THING IS FAST!

Yep.

With my first test scenes I got about 15% faster renders.

After updating the nv drivers I tried some more complex scenes. Difficult lightning with many iray effects and so on ... and it's about 50-60% faster!

That's really impressive on the nv iray and driver side.

Now, if daz would fix their problems ....

 

[rom_piet]

View attachment 898164
Note the render settings in Daz 4.14

You just solved two days of headache for me.
<3