RPGM RAGS DAZ renders + RPG maker

[Euphoria Workshop]

A simple question, doesn't it look strange? Browsing through games recently, I noticed that some developers are combining this anime style RPGM with renders from daz. I'm curious if this turns people off from this type of production, I'm mainly referring to this inconsistency.

 

[MissFortune]

If you have the power to run and render with Daz, then why use RPGM? Seems it'd make more sense just to use Ren'py, unless you're looking to artificially lengthen the game by having players grind/walk around.

Well, like everything, there's going to be exceptions. There are some (debatably, of course.) good games featuring Daz renders with RPGM. But there's also a large group that think RPGM games kind of suck. Myself included. But, as I said, there's obviously successful examples out there. Namely, Manila Shaw. I'm not sure about the gameplay of The Genesis Order/NLT stuff or even something like Peasant's Quest. But they're all clearly rather successful in what they set out to achieve.

One thing to consider is that RPGM games often have the lowest return rate around here, which may or may not be telling of the general adult game audience, and for all I know it's because a lot of them suck. I can't say that much, nor will I.

But I suppose to round my point out, objectively look at your game. Does it match the quality of The Genesis Order, Manila Shaw (not that it's a great game, imo, but just my two pennies.), or Peasant's Quest? If the answer is no, then can it be? Does that inconsistency between mediums bug you in other RPGM games? If no, then pay attention to how they do it. If yes, then you probably should probably be looking in another direction.

 

[Warthief]

A simple question, doesn't it look strange? Browsing through games recently, I noticed that some developers are combining this anime style RPGM with renders from daz. I'm curious if this turns people off from this type of production, I'm mainly referring to this inconsistency.

For me most of the time i don't have problem with the RPG Maker Chibi art in game and Daz renders mixed in 1 game, but if the RPG Maker art don't look similar to the Daz renders art than the game will feel off for me, like for example if the main character in renders have black hair and his sprite have green or blue hair than that will feel off for me, same for maps and other things.

 

[Warthief]

If you have the power to run and render with Daz, then why use RPGM? Seems it'd make more sense just to use Ren'py, unless you're looking to artificially lengthen the game by having players grind/walk around.

Well, like everything, there's going to be exceptions. There are some (debatably, of course.) good games featuring Daz renders with RPGM. But there's also a large group that think RPGM games kind of suck. Myself included. But, as I said, there's obviously successful examples out there. Namely, Manila Shaw. I'm not sure about the gameplay of The Genesis Order/NLT stuff or even something like Peasant's Quest. But they're all clearly rather successful in what they set out to achieve.

One thing to consider is that RPGM games often have the lowest return rate around here, which may or may not be telling of the general adult game audience, and for all I know it's because a lot of them suck. I can't say that much, nor will I.

But I suppose to round my point out, objectively look at your game. Does it match the quality of The Genesis Order, Manila Shaw (not that it's a great game, imo, but just my two pennies.), or Peasant's Quest? If the answer is no, then can it be? Does that inconsistency between mediums bug you in other RPGM games? If no, then pay attention to how they do it. If yes, then you probably should probably be looking in another direction.

I don't fully agree with this, it depend on what you want to do with your game, i will say of you want to just have story with or without player choices Ren'py is better even if you can do the same thing with RPG Maker, Ren'py will be better.
If you want to have RPG game and you want the player to controle the character movment in the world with maybe combat or secrets in the world... for sure you can't do that in Ren'py so RPG Maker is better option but if you know coding Unity or Unreal will be much better and give you more freedom but for sure the work will be harder,
still RPG Maker is harder to use and consume more time compared to Ren'py that why many RPG Maker games fail,
In Ren'py most of the time you will focus on coding, story and art, in RPG Maker you will do coding, story and art but also you will create the maps, sprites, items, combat if your game have that and balance it...

So if you ask what better engine i will say both are good it depend on what you gonna create, the better question to ask is what engine i need to use for "the game i am creating".
(I am getting off topic here)

 

[MissFortune]

I don't fully agree with this, it depend on what you want to do with your game, i will say of you want to just have story with or without player choices Ren'py is better even if you can do the same thing with RPG Maker, Ren'py will be better.
If you want to have RPG game and you want the player to controle the character movment in the world with maybe combat or secrets in the world... for sure you can't do that in Ren'py so RPG Maker is better option but if you know coding Unity or Unreal will be much better and give you more freedom but for sure the work will be harder,

Let's put it another way.

Excuse my lack of technical knowledge as I've never used RPGM, so I have absolutely no idea what it's like under the hood. That said, in a RPGM game, you're often moving from one scripted location to the next scripted location, triggering the next part of the quest or another event, etcetera. There's very little, if any, free-roam. How is that any different than making a choice in a Visual Novel, or more likely, a sandbox VN? You make a choice, which leads to a new event or another variant of that event, or something else entirely. It may not entirely be the case, but you're forced to move the character around from scripted event to scripted event, and thus more keystrokes, and thus time spent getting to that location - thus further lengthening the game, artificially or not. It's a largely empty rhetoric, as far as I can tell (Dunning-Kruger could be real strong with me here, though.), when they're doing the same things, just in different ways with more steps.

Even then, Ren'py can do what RPGM does. Theoretically speaking, at least. There's a few framworks that implement the ability to do. Now, do they do it well? That's a different argument. Obviously Unreal can be pushed a lot further, but there's a decent level of skill is also needed to accommodate that, and on top of that, there's a reason you don't see too many successful UE projects floating around on the adult side of things.

RPG Maker is harder to use and consume more time compared to Ren'py that why many RPG Maker games fail

Harder to use or less intuitive? There is a difference. Have you actually used Ren'py at all? Sincere question, not a slight. Ren'py, at it's base, is far easier. Sure. But it's also built (to some extent) to grow with a developer.

But no, that isn't why RPGM games fail. People are lazy. They don't want to have to constantly press keys while they're trying to fap. RPGM games are far more catered to the Asian market (e.g. DLSite.). More keystrokes = more work. I mean, there's a reason there's a strong market around Ren'py remakes of RPGM games.

In Ren'py most of the time you will focus on coding, story and art, in RPG Maker you will do coding, story and art but also you will create the maps, sprites, items, combat if your game have that and balance it...

With Ren'py, most competent games are usually doing the coding, writing, and art. Most successful ones are also doing UI overhauls. New Main Menus, game/pause menus, save/load screens, etc. That means about a book's worth of code, couple days worth of backgrounds, images, imagebuttons and their variants for idling/hovering, and any other features a VN might have. That's not even getting into the sandbox side of things.

I'm not going to argue with you about which engine is superior or inferior. OP asked a question, and I gave him an answer. I was simply curious why he was jumping into RPGM if he had enough horsepower for Daz. As one of the biggest reasons people use RPGM is because their computer often can't run Daz at level where they can pump out 500+ renders every update.

 

[Warthief]

First i want to say that i am not comparing engines here, every engine have pros and cons.

Excuse my lack of technical knowledge as I've never used RPGM, so I have absolutely no idea what it's like under the hood. That said, in a RPGM game, you're often moving from one scripted location to the next scripted location, triggering the next part of the quest or another event, etcetera. There's very little, if any, free-roam. How is that any different than making a choice in a Visual Novel, or more likely, a sandbox VN? You make a choice, which leads to a new event or another variant of that event, or something else entirely. It may not entirely be the case, but you're forced to move the character around from scripted event to scripted event, and thus more keystrokes, and thus time spent getting to that location - thus further lengthening the game, artificially or not. It's a largely empty rhetoric, as far as I can tell (Dunning-Kruger could be real strong with me here, though.), when they're doing the same things, just in different ways with more steps.

Here you didn't talk so much about the engines you talked more about the game styles, yes in some games in both engines you will have scripted events and the both engines there is sandbox games with choices, but the differance here that in RPG Maker you will explore more the world of the game but for sure that will mean the player will waste time walking from map to map and in Ren'py there is little exploration with just images of the maps but the player will not waste time walking from map A to map B and looking for characters or things to do.
Is walking around the maps a bad thing ? yes and no it depend on what the player want to play and what the dev want to make.

Even then, Ren'py can do what RPGM does. Theoretically speaking, at least. There's a few framworks that implement the ability to do. Now, do they do it well? That's a different argument. Obviously Unreal can be pushed a lot further, but there's a decent level of skill is also needed to accommodate that, and on top of that, there's a reason you don't see too many successful UE projects floating around on the adult side of things.

RPG Maker can create game using just images and dialogue like Ren'py, in Ren'py i think you can't create maps, character wlak around, combat ... (I didn't use or get into ren'py before so i don't really know)
But that don't mean having more things is better for sure again it always depend on what the dev want to make and also what he can make, many of the UE porn games are bad because they try to make AAA style game with small team and budget, hell sometime 1 guy try to make AAA style game, in they end most of them end up as buggy walking simulator with huge map and nothing to do, i don't know if this dev's try to scam the players showing them half baked buggy projects or they are honestly trying to make AAA style game with small team.

Harder to use or less intuitive? There is a difference. Have you actually used Ren'py at all? Sincere question, not a slight. Ren'py, at it's base, is far easier. Sure. But it's also built (to some extent) to grow with a developer.

But no, that isn't why RPGM games fail. People are lazy. They don't want to have to constantly press keys while they're trying to fap. RPGM games are far more catered to the Asian market (e.g. DLSite.). More keystrokes = more work. I mean, there's a reason there's a strong market around Ren'py remakes of RPGM games.

What i man by harder is the engine is bad when you code with it, especialy when you create a big code and start to navigate it, like i said before i never get into Ren'py, i downlod it once and i saw it use normal coding if i remember right, i don't know what languge it use but if you write your code it more easy to navigate it and understand what you are doing (i tried to learn coding in unity before) and also you will waste more time with RPG Maker and less time with Ren'py but i will talk more about that when i responde to this.

With Ren'py, most competent games are usually doing the coding, writing, and art. Most successful ones are also doing UI overhauls. New Main Menus, game/pause menus, save/load screens, etc. That means about a book's worth of code, couple days worth of backgrounds, images, imagebuttons and their variants for idling/hovering, and any other features a VN might have. That's not even getting into the sandbox side of things.

I'm not going to argue with you about which engine is superior or inferior. OP asked a question, and I gave him an answer. I was simply curious why he was jumping into RPGM if he had enough horsepower for Daz. As one of the biggest reasons people use RPGM is because their computer often can't run Daz at level where they can pump out 500+ renders every update.

Let's talk about new dev with low experiance, when he gonna create a basic ren'py game he will need to work on story, art and coding.
if someone with low experiance gonna create rpg maker game he will need to also work on story, art and coding but he also need to make the maps, sprites and place them in game.
it just more time consuming working with rpg maker.

I am not sure if the op is making a game or not tbh but if he gonna make a game my advice for him will be choose what engine you see your project can work on best, for sure choose what you can use, but most important if this your 1st game the most important thing start with small project that you can finish, it don't need to be your dream project, use your first project to test your skills, use it to learn and start to make a fan base.

 

[Euphoria Workshop]

I didn't expect so much discussion on this thread. Thank you both for your valuable information and differing points of view.

 

[anne O'nymous]

If you want to have RPG game and you want the player to controle the character movment in the world with maybe combat or secrets in the world... for sure you can't do that in Ren'py so RPG Maker is better option [...]

There's an, alas not updated since a long time, RPG Maker emulator-like made with Ren'Py. So I have to disagree with your assumption that it can't be done with Ren'Py. Of course, it need mode coding knowledge than a VN, and Ren'Py isn't necessarily the best choice for this, but it's perfectly possible to implement both the map system and the combat system with Ren'Py.
In fact, regarding the combat system it would always be better with Ren'Py than with RPG Maker since there's no limits in the way you implement it. It can be basic, like in Damsels and Dungeons, classical, like in Sakura Dungeon, or more modern, like in Planet Stronghold 2 ; on a side note, the last title also have a limited map system. I know that there's also a handful of games who implemented it in a RPG Maker way, but no names cross my mind right now.
As for the "secrets in the world", it's something that exist in many Ren'Py games. And unlike with RPG Maker, it can be implemented at any time, not just when you're in a map or free roaming screen.

In Ren'py most of the time you will focus on coding, story and art, in RPG Maker you will do coding, story and art but also you will create the maps, sprites, items, combat if your game have that and balance it...

How many RPG Maker games have you played ? 90% of them use generic assets for the maps and sprites, and among those who have combats, really few are effectively balanced.

So if you ask what better engine i will say both are good it depend on what you gonna create, the better question to ask is what engine i need to use for "the game i am creating".

And the answer will always be "the one you understand the most".

While I'm not fan of them, a VN made with RPG Maker, by someone who understand what he's doing, will always be better than the same made with Ren'Py by someone who have no clue regarding what he's doing.

Here you didn't talk so much about the engines you talked more about the game styles, [...] but the differance here that in RPG Maker you will explore more the world of the game but for sure that will mean the player will waste time walking from map to map and in Ren'py there is little exploration with just images of the maps but the player will not waste time walking from map A to map B and looking for characters or things to do.

By comparing the engines in regard of the way they are mostly used, and not in regard of their capabilities, you also are only talking about game styles.
Take a look at Sakura Dungeon that I linked above. A full RPG game, with old school 3D dungeons, combats, and just a bit of character interaction. Or look at The DeLuca Family, that mix VN with free roaming, scripted events, and (basic) map exploration.
In regard of capabilities, RPG Maker is limited to old school isometric RPG and basic VN, while Ren'Py offer a way more extended range of possibilities.

Is walking around the maps a bad thing ? yes and no it depend on what the player want to play and what the dev want to make.

It's a bad thing when it add absolutely nothing to the game, what is too often the case in the Western scene. This in the same way that free roaming in Ren'Py games are a bad thing when there's always only one significant location at a give time.
RPG Maker isometric maps make sense only when the maps are effectively used. Therefore when they are populated, either by NPCs, by opponents, or by both. You'll then have a reason to be on the map. Whatever if it's searching the NPC you need to talk too right now, or avoiding combats, the map add something to the game.
But when the maps are empty, and don't have more intent than showing you how far from your actual location is the next place you've to be, then they are just a lame way to extend the time past playing.

Who would play a FPS where you've to pass minutes walking through empty maps for the sole intent of walking ? No one unless it's the purpose of the game.
Instead, when walking you'll encounter people you'll be able to interact with, events that will pop up if you pass near to a given location or near to a given NPC, and game mechanisms like this. Even sandbox games, like GTA or Saints Row, that are fully located on streets, and where you pass most of your time walking, offer you many different activities you can, or not, practice while you move from a location to another. Walking become then a part of the game itself, adding a new dimension not to the game or the game play, but to the game experience and the enjoyment you get from it as player.
Why should it be different with RPG Maker games ?

RPG Maker can create game using just images and dialogue like Ren'py, in Ren'py i think you can't create maps, character wlak around, combat ... (I didn't use or get into ren'py before so i don't really know)

You don't really know, but it don't prevent you to base all your argumentation on the fact that it's not possible. This when it's perfectly possible ; less easy, but totally possible and in many different way.

if someone with low experiance gonna create rpg maker game he will need to also work on story, art and coding but he also need to make the maps, sprites and place them in game.
it just more time consuming working with rpg maker.

Not really more time consuming, no, and not just because most of them use generic assets.
Globally speaking, with RPG Maker, once you've defined the core of your game (maps, opponents, game mechanism), you've near to no more works to do on them. Yes, it's something that need time, but it's something that you've to do only once. RPG Maker is an event based engine. Once you've the core of your game, that is needed right from the starts, you mostly just need to change variables in order to change the state of the game, what will permit to the next events to be triggered. This and obviously writing the story and making the new CGs.
At the opposite, Ren'Py is sequential by default. Having the core of your game will never be enough, and you'll always have to write code. Plus, like the need for the core of the game is not mandatory, too many devs works on it only when they'll finally needs this or that part. What also explain why way more Ren'Py games are abandoned, especially at early stage.

Therefore, saying that RPG Maker games are more time consuming is untrue. They need more preparation time, but once the preparation is done, you'll advance way faster than with a Ren'Py game. This even if the Ren'Py game rely on sprites, and therefore don't need too many CGs.

 

[Warthief]

There's an, alas not updated since a long time, RPG Maker emulator-like made with Ren'Py. So I have to disagree with your assumption that it can't be done with Ren'Py. Of course, it need mode coding knowledge than a VN, and Ren'Py isn't necessarily the best choice for this, but it's perfectly possible to implement both the map system and the combat system with Ren'Py.
In fact, regarding the combat system it would always be better with Ren'Py than with RPG Maker since there's no limits in the way you implement it. It can be basic, like in Damsels and Dungeons, classical, like in Sakura Dungeon, or more modern, like in Planet Stronghold 2 ; on a side note, the last title also have a limited map system. I know that there's also a handful of games who implemented it in a RPG Maker way, but no names cross my mind right now.
As for the "secrets in the world", it's something that exist in many Ren'Py games. And unlike with RPG Maker, it can be implemented at any time, not just when you're in a map or free roaming screen.




How many RPG Maker games have you played ? 90% of them use generic assets for the maps and sprites, and among those who have combats, really few are effectively balanced.




And the answer will always be "the one you understand the most".

While I'm not fan of them, a VN made with RPG Maker, by someone who understand what he's doing, will always be better than the same made with Ren'Py by someone who have no clue regarding what he's doing.






By comparing the engines in regard of the way they are mostly used, and not in regard of their capabilities, you also are only talking about game styles.
Take a look at Sakura Dungeon that I linked above. A full RPG game, with old school 3D dungeons, combats, and just a bit of character interaction. Or look at The DeLuca Family, that mix VN with free roaming, scripted events, and (basic) map exploration.
In regard of capabilities, RPG Maker is limited to old school isometric RPG and basic VN, while Ren'Py offer a way more extended range of possibilities.




It's a bad thing when it add absolutely nothing to the game, what is too often the case in the Western scene. This in the same way that free roaming in Ren'Py games are a bad thing when there's always only one significant location at a give time.
RPG Maker isometric maps make sense only when the maps are effectively used. Therefore when they are populated, either by NPCs, by opponents, or by both. You'll then have a reason to be on the map. Whatever if it's searching the NPC you need to talk too right now, or avoiding combats, the map add something to the game.
But when the maps are empty, and don't have more intent than showing you how far from your actual location is the next place you've to be, then they are just a lame way to extend the time past playing.

Who would play a FPS where you've to pass minutes walking through empty maps for the sole intent of walking ? No one unless it's the purpose of the game.
Instead, when walking you'll encounter people you'll be able to interact with, events that will pop up if you pass near to a given location or near to a given NPC, and game mechanisms like this. Even sandbox games, like GTA or Saints Row, that are fully located on streets, and where you pass most of your time walking, offer you many different activities you can, or not, practice while you move from a location to another. Walking become then a part of the game itself, adding a new dimension not to the game or the game play, but to the game experience and the enjoyment you get from it as player.
Why should it be different with RPG Maker games ?




You don't really know, but it don't prevent you to base all your argumentation on the fact that it's not possible. This when it's perfectly possible ; less easy, but totally possible and in many different way.




Not really more time consuming, no, and not just because most of them use generic assets.
Globally speaking, with RPG Maker, once you've defined the core of your game (maps, opponents, game mechanism), you've near to no more works to do on them. Yes, it's something that need time, but it's something that you've to do only once. RPG Maker is an event based engine. Once you've the core of your game, that is needed right from the starts, you mostly just need to change variables in order to change the state of the game, what will permit to the next events to be triggered. This and obviously writing the story and making the new CGs.
At the opposite, Ren'Py is sequential by default. Having the core of your game will never be enough, and you'll always have to write code. Plus, like the need for the core of the game is not mandatory, too many devs works on it only when they'll finally needs this or that part. What also explain why way more Ren'Py games are abandoned, especially at early stage.

Therefore, saying that RPG Maker games are more time consuming is untrue. They need more preparation time, but once the preparation is done, you'll advance way faster than with a Ren'Py game. This even if the Ren'Py game rely on sprites, and therefore don't need too many CGs.

I agree with most of the points you made, yes i said my knowldge on ren'py is low so maybe i made some mistakes here.
Some points i didn't agree about because you get them out of context like when i was talking about rpg maker can use map and ren'py don't i was talking about a dev with very basic skills who gonna start a game.
but overall you made very good points.

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

Too much to read lol, guys can't you condensate your points I'm getting old .
Imho the Renpy VS RPG Maker is no debate, it's a waste of time.

You use Renpy for the visual slide show framework.
You use RPGM for the RPG mechanic framework
You don't really care about the assets both way.

A simple question, doesn't it look strange? Browsing through games recently, I noticed that some developers are combining this anime style RPGM with renders from daz. I'm curious if this turns people off from this type of production, I'm mainly referring to this inconsistency.

I'm not sure what you refer with Daz/RPGM anime style. I'm not very aware of what people doing tho.
Here some crap RPGM prototype with ~15year old Daz 3DL assets (don't mind the frame rate lol):

View attachment Game Gs9g39frv.mp4

 

[anne O'nymous]

Too much to read lol, [...] I'm getting old .

Oh come on, saying this to my face, really ?

I'm not sure what you refer with Daz/RPGM anime style. I'm not very aware of what people doing tho.

I guess he was referring to the generic western games. They tend to use the usual pixel art for the maps and sprites, and Daz Studio renders for the CGs.

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

Oh come on, saying this to my face, really ?

Ay, couldn't hear what the relic had to say

I guess he was referring to the generic western games. They tend to use the usual pixel art for the maps and sprites, and Daz Studio renders for the CGs.

I may be wrong but I guess "pixel art" is for "tile based asset". It's misconception ihmo. If you render with Daz mostly you play 2 maps (top/down, very badly called 'parallax mapping') :

 

[anne O'nymous]

Ay, couldn't hear what the relic had to say

I'm past the age where I'll comment on this.

I may be wrong but I guess "pixel art" is for "tile based asset".

Yeah, sorry, a bit of nostalgia behind the way to name this.

It's misconception ihmo. If you render with Daz mostly you play 2 maps (top/down, very badly called 'parallax mapping')

Know that it's possible, I used to follow few games doing it that way. But I agree with OP to say that they are a minority. And in fact it also apply to the Asian scene and it's 2D style, that could also use 2D drawing for their map, but prefer to stick with tiles. It's just that for them the difference is less visible because the two styles merges more easily.

 

[MarbleCrown]

Some people might be bothered by the difference between the pixel sprites of RPGM and the more realistic style from DAZ as they find the two to be clashing. I don't see it, personally, but my own game fits this criteria too. If you compare 90's RPGs with prerendered cutscenes, does that difference in graphical fidelity for certain scenes enhance or detract from the overall experience? Plenty of games have differences between the interactive sections of the game and the scenic/narrative sections. Though I can't see myself being able to remake my own game in Renpy because of the gameplay design.

But I agree that the whole Renpy vs RPGM debate is rather pointless. Neither engine is particularly great at doing anything well beyond what they were designed to make. But both engines have their niche which they're good at. Saying that if you have a PC good enough to render DAZ you shouldn't use RPGM is rather silly though. The engine you choose to use should have nothing to do with what style of art you want to use, instead it should be based on the type of 'game' you want to make. If you want to make an RPG (or something similar), then use that, if you want to make a VN, use Renpy. Realistically though, if you have the knowledge and the skill, use Unity, because it is miles ahead of both Renpy and RPGM in every way except ease of use. RPGM and Renpy are highly specialized and extremely simple to use engines and that is their ultimate appeal.

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

Know that it's possible, I used to follow few games doing it that way. But I agree with OP to say that they are a minority. And in fact it also apply to the Asian scene and it's 2D style, that could also use 2D drawing for their map, but prefer to stick with tiles. It's just that for them the difference is less visible because the two styles merges more easily.

I do also prefer old school hand made tiles & sprites, but since I can't really do them in timely manner.. I had to find a way to fully exploit Daz library yet again.

Some people might be bothered by the difference between the pixel sprites of RPGM and the more realistic style from DAZ as they find the two to be clashing. I don't see it, personally, but my own game fits this criteria too.

Would say I do prefer style consistency when possible too.

I use 8 directional movement, each motion (Idle/Walk/Dash/Jump) have 8 frames. So 64+64+64+0 sprites for the whole character spritesheet (as I don't use jump). Sometime less as an NPC doesn't have to dash for ex.

In Daz I setup each motion like this (here Walk) :



128*128px (my scale for the game), pixel filter is turned off, light is a simple SunSky with no ground and a shadow catcher to, well, catch the shadow. Camera is static 45° with perspective turned off. Then I assemble my 64 sprites on the character spritedsheet with

You must be registered to see the links

. That way you can play with whole Daz library for your chars and keeping consistency with Daz-made "parallax maps".

here the final spritesheet:

 

[MarbleCrown]

I do also prefer old school hand made tiles sprites, but since I can't really do them in timely manner.. I had to find a way to fully exploit Daz library yet again.



Would say I do prefer style consistency when possible too.

I use 8 directional movement, each motion (Idle/Walk/Dash/Jump) have 8 frames. So 64+64+64+0 sprites for the whole character spritesheet (as I don't use jump). Sometime less as an NPC doesn't have to dash for ex.

In Daz I setup each motion like this (here Walk) :

View attachment 2148630

128*128px (my scale for the game), pixel filter is turned off, light is a simple SunSky with no ground and a shadow catcher to, well, catch the shadow. Camera is static 45° with perspective turned off. Then I assemble my 64 sprites on the character spritedsheet with

You must be registered to see the links

. That way you can play with whole Daz library for your chars and keeping consistency with Daz-made "parallax maps".

here the final spritesheet:

View attachment 2148682

Well done!

I was thinking of doing something similar at one point just so I'm not using basic sprites, but it's quite a lot of work for the sake of fidelity during early development. Doing DAZ maps in parallax is another thing I'm interested in doing in the future, but some of my maps are rather large (again due to the design of gameplay mechanics) so I might have to render them in segments and stitch them together, but then perspectives might become very complicated.

 

[Warthief]

I do also prefer old school hand made tiles & sprites, but since I can't really do them in timely manner.. I had to find a way to fully exploit Daz library yet again.



Would say I do prefer style consistency when possible too.

I use 8 directional movement, each motion (Idle/Walk/Dash/Jump) have 8 frames. So 64+64+64+0 sprites for the whole character spritesheet (as I don't use jump). Sometime less as an NPC doesn't have to dash for ex.

In Daz I setup each motion like this (here Walk) :

View attachment 2148630

128*128px (my scale for the game), pixel filter is turned off, light is a simple SunSky with no ground and a shadow catcher to, well, catch the shadow. Camera is static 45° with perspective turned off. Then I assemble my 64 sprites on the character spritedsheet with

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. That way you can play with whole Daz library for your chars and keeping consistency with Daz-made "parallax maps".

here the final spritesheet:

View attachment 2148682

I done something like this in my game but more basic than this,
I wanted to ask how you get idle animation in RPG Maker? I don't really remember but i think there is plugin for walk and run but i never seen how to do idle, i seen it in some new games.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Would say I do prefer style consistency when possible too.

Same for me.

The first rule of graphic design is to be consistent. And if you've to break this rule, it need to have a purpose ; like by example expressing the difference between reality and dreams.
Not that games who break the rule are necessarily bad, but they'll always stand at least a step below the place they would otherwise have.

If you compare 90's RPGs with prerendered cutscenes, does that difference in graphical fidelity for certain scenes enhance or detract from the overall experience?

It give me the same bad feeling than the said 90's RPGs. The worse games from those times being those who had bitmap graphic for everything, except the cut scenes that was realistic (for this time) full screen videos. I could deal with videos when they were thumbnails integrated to the background, but those full screen ones, oh my god. The (now really poor) quality of Doom or Duke Nukem 3D, or even the one of 80's games, were giving me a hundred times better feeling than those wanabe techno-elitist games.

Plenty of games have differences between the interactive sections of the game and the scenic/narrative sections.

Plenty of games are overrated and feel like shit when you play them just two years after their hype. And this especially apply for the 90's and early 00's ones.
Where are those games with an inconsistent visual style, when you look at the list of games who marked the decade and are remembered with nostalgia ? There's some of course, but the few who made it to the list are nothing in comparison of the number of games like this that have been released.
Hell, even the games made by porn studios during the 90's had more visual constancy than those games. Yet most of them were the cheapest shit you could find a this time.

Note that it's not a criticism against you or your game. You do what you can and I'm sure that you're doing it in the best possible way. But really, a lack of visual constancy that don't carry an in-game value, do not serve a game. It will not prevent people to play it, but it will present some people to do it.

 

[MarbleCrown]

Where are those games with an inconsistent visual style, when you look at the list of games who marked the decade and are remembered with nostalgia ?

The Final Fantasy games are the perfect example. Even Baldur's Gate had prerendered parts. The Diablo series, Starcraft, Warcraft (really any Blizzard game at the time). These are all standouts from that generation of gaming and I'm sure there's more that I'm missing. The ideal would be to have every part of the game in the best graphical representation possible, but modern games still need optimization and downgrading to achieve performance.

I wonder what you think about text based games including pictures then? Should text based games just not use graphical supplements to maintain consistency?

The way I see it is that there's an acceptable separation between the graphical representation where the player interacts with the game and sections where the player can sit back and enjoy a scene that delivers narrative without the player interacting with it. Sometimes this separation is even seen as a good thing because the switching into a different graphical representation indicates to the player that you can rest for a while and enjoy the show.

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

Well done!

I was thinking of doing something similar at one point just so I'm not using basic sprites, but it's quite a lot of work for the sake of fidelity during early development. Doing DAZ maps in parallax is another thing I'm interested in doing in the future, but some of my maps are rather large (again due to the design of gameplay mechanics) so I might have to render them in segments and stitch them together, but then perspectives might become very complicated.

Thanks. It's a bit of work but not as hard as you think, even you're quite neophyte with Daz. Once you "looped" your 8 frames motions, it's mostly copy/pasta stuff. But it's great to do this early in development, ihmo, because you just copy/paste that pose preset to any chars you have in mind (or visualy change armor and stuff like that).

For "Daz parallax mapping", it depends what scale you have in mind. There is large map, and there is LARGE map if you know what I mean. At first I went the way you explain it. Rendering House1, House2, House3 etc... as assets in 8 cardinal directions, and place them one by one on map. Turn out doing this was extremely boring.

So I went with one shot solution instead. My town in the video is 90*50 tiles (my tiles are 48*48px). So in Daz I setup my render to be exact 4320*2400 (-> 4320 is 90*48, 2400 is 50*48). I place a house in my render, and render it, look at it in RPGM. It's obviously the wrong scale. I will render that house until I find the good scale factor for my 128*128px char.

Turn out scaling assets to 45% seems alright, so I just leave a note on my Daz save, and scale everything down to 45%.

I done something like this in my game but more basic than this,
I wanted to ask how you get idle animation in RPG Maker? I don't really remember but i think there is plugin for walk and run but i never seen how to do idle, i seen it in some new games.

I use RPGM MV, and

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for most visual part of my crappy prototype (outside SideView battler):



I kinda like GALV's plugins because they are straight to the point (no useless bloat).