VN Ren'Py Defending Lydia Collier [v0.17 Beta 1.6] [White Phantom Games]

[Raikusen]

how do i unlock Jenna gallery 11

 

[Echoesinthedarkness]

Some people don't like it to the point where they feel cheated if the dev didn't advertise the game as having that fetish(or any other for that matter) from the get go

please try to grow a pair.

you know, if people were able to follow their own advice that would solve lots of problems, just a thought

 

[DarkRoyal]

There are plenty of games out there that come with a surprise twist, that as players we either don't like or don't agree with. At the end of the day The game or AVN is the creators vision, not the players. The player has a very simple choice accept it and carry on playing and perhaps register their dislike, hoping the creator doesn't go down that route again. Or if the event is so against what they want from the game then simply stop playing that game. Go outside get some fresh air and some sun and remember it is just a game.

 

[Echoesinthedarkness]

There are plenty of games out there that come with a surprise twist, that as players we either don't like or don't agree with. At the end of the day The game or AVN is the creators vision, not the players. The player has a very simple choice accept it and carry on playing and perhaps register their dislike, hoping the creator doesn't go down that route again. Or if the event is so against what they want from the game then simply stop playing that game. Go outside get some fresh air and some sun and remember it is just a game.

well a lot of the times there is another path: "pick different dialogue option", too many people seemingly forget about this possibility

 

[lipe2410]

I think part of the issue is the game doesn't have the netorare/ntr/cuck tag

Which is easily explained by the fact this game doesn’t have any netorare/ntr/cuck content. And no, a character talking about her depraved past doesn’t qualify as ntr/cuck content, people disliking this thing or not

 

[dodgingnoir]

Which is easily explained by the fact this game doesn’t have any netorare/ntr/cuck content. And no, a character talking about her depraved past doesn’t qualify as ntr/cuck content, people disliking this thing or not

Clearly some people disagree. I also didn't say the game has netorare/ntr/cuck, I was giving my opinion in regards to why there seem to be so many disgruntled fans. I personally don't care if a LI in a game had a past and a sex life before entering a relationship with the MC(I may not really be interested in finding out about their past adventures but that's a personal preference and I don't feel like WP is forcing that content down my throat).
I also don't think it's ntr if the girl actually tells the MC and asks permission to do it(I'm referring to the dialog where Tiff asks if she can have fun without MC). I think that's called swinging/sharing though I've noticed in general people seem to lump it together with ntr. The definition of ntr doesn't seem to be static, like with so many other things that are subjective rather than objective.
The phenomenon is the same as with celebrities - there's the diehard fans who think they they walk on water and shit rainbows and skittles and then they have diehard haters who blame everything from the extintion of dinasors to covid on them

 

[Raoddik]

Ah, yeah, the AVN where everyone was fine with that outcome. Totally didn't bully the dev out of the site and made sure almost no one ever will try something like that again. Great example of why you should be ok with 'Twists' about LI after playing 3/4 of the game on their routes.

Yea, people get attached to the characters and sometimes it ends like that, and it's not ok, if we go that way at some point the devs will be scared to do anything out of ordinary just so they don't get bullied and we will get only one dimensional boring games (it actually kind of happens in AAA gaming), and people tend to bully other people often just because they can because it's internet. And usually it's the same vocal group (often not that big) when most people don't care. Of course it's not bad to give the opinion to the devs about something but in the end it's their games and vision. Overall internet is weird place nowadays...

I also agree it would be nice to know "tags" from the beginning but I don't think most VN creators plan that far ahead (and I'm sure few made up things as their doing update ).

But I feel you, sometimes for some weird reason I'm get attached to character and then don't like how things are going (still mad about that one dead...).

 

[hello.jpg]

 

[OptimusCrime]

I’m not understanding the Ntr angle here. Neither Steph or Tiffany are fucking someone else at the moment. One was a stripper and kind of an idiot and the other one is a clubbing party girl who we actively see her getting wild with her closest friends. They’re not virgins so if you ask them about their past and still surprised it’s wild. We’ve known about Steph’s hard drive for a while now, and that it’s gonna have terrible stuff on it that she’s ashamed of. Again, you look into it and are shocked is wildin

Also to stop you on your tracks, I hate Ntr and Ntr games but also I’m realistic, but maybe I’m not surprised by this stuff since I’ve dated a stripper before and some crazy chicks in the past

 

[gAlexRed2002]

I've looked through the playthrough to see the updates since I last played and I saw that there are branches with Steph and Lydia and with Ellie and Lydia. Can I go romance all three of them? Not in a joint path, at least individually or Steph/Lydia and Ellie separate or the other way?

 

[WarriorSteel]

I've looked through the playthrough to see the updates since I last played and I saw that there are branches with Steph and Lydia and with Ellie and Lydia. Can I go romance all three of them? Not in a joint path, at least individually or Steph/Lydia and Ellie separate or the other way?

Only combination with those 4 you can have is:
Ellia + Lydia
Steph + Lydia
Vanessa + Ellie

There is Lydia + Jenna too

 

[juice2000]

Show the info to the player so he can make an educated choice if he invests 20 updates romancing a character. Keep the MC in the dark, if that is important for the story(in this case it has fuck all to do with anything), but not the player.

Lets make an exercise, if her route would have ended in surprise NTR, would you still use the same lame excuse about her not being truthful being done for immersion purpose, or would admit that the dev fucked people over?
Both people defending this above you, that coincidently are fans of the type of content I mentioned, said its optional and avoidable...about a backstory aka canon event

Pandora's box has been opened, if she confesses on murdering someone, you can't pretend in your save where you didn't ask her about it that this character you are romancing isn't a murderer.

But, its good you found an easy out of actually engaging with everything I posted, whats next, grammar? ...I am going to go with disingenuous for now.

I hope you do realise that not all choices or information a character says is canon. Some answers from choices are there to mold and guide the character into what you want them to be in your playthrough and up until that choice and answer is given do not exsist in any form or capacity. This is a game remember not real life. Not every game has detailed characters backstories. This game, which has become clear by now is about your LIs being what you want and choose them to be and those characters can evolve in different directions based on your choices.

In Tiffs case there are many other options to make her more of a vanilla partner, Netori issues aside. You can even tell her not to call you daddy. To use your excersise above her route would never end in NTR because the dev hasnt designed his game that way. So thats a mute point. However he may give YOU a choice to take her that way or because the dev gives you choices to make her how YOU want and prior to making those choices she has a very basic personality. Its not written in her bio because none of the characters have fixed personalities they are of a construct of your choices and when you start a new game or reload you have the choice to make them something else without the baggage of the previous playthough because that character no longer exists.

Now i know some people self insert to the point its unhealthy and they hate on the developers but it is a game and if sombody doesnt like answer they can scroll back and make a different choice. Like i said its evident these are not fully built characters with deep histories and planned futures. Its a corruption game where they are what you make them and every choice takes them ina direction of your choice, which can also be changed if not to your liking. If anyone playing this game has become so immersed they cannot understand this is how choice based games work then they have deeper problems to worry about and i would suggest they stick to VN without choices or vanilla games like DPC makes.

 

[OWSam000]

I forgot how Vanessa/Ellie path start, is focus on Vanessa then cheat with Ellie? Secret relationship with Ellie or Vanessa found out?

 

[Samuel Hidayat]

And no, a character talking about her depraved past doesn’t qualify as ntr/cuck content, people disliking this thing or not

This also depends on how she talks about it. If she keeps comparing how inferior you are to her past lovers in a humiliating fashion, roleplay or not, it can be considered cuckoldry.

Steph is obviously traumatized by her sexual and stripper pasts (thanks to her abusive ex), so I can't see how anyone could call that NTR. You can even break up with her after her confession/you finding out.

 

[NebulousShooter]

they cannot understand this is how choice based games work

Its part of her backstory, the hell are you on about? If you close your eyes doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You get to ask her about that, because she hints that there are unsavory details about her past ,therefore they exist regardless of 'choices'. Same way you can't not watch the Steph tapes, that doesn't make them stop existing. Like what kinda logic is that? You are not going back and editing their pasts

Which is easily explained by the fact this game doesn’t have any netorare/ntr/cuck content. And no, a character talking about her depraved past doesn’t qualify as ntr/cuck content, people disliking this thing or not

Since it's you I am going to make an effort, one last time, just beacuse it doesn't qualify for a specific tag doesn't mean content can't be designed to do the exact same thing, thats why its commonly called technically not type content. Everyone not disingenuous on this topic gets it, the fact that it was popularized by Inceton should give everyone a hint why it exists in a specific case.

Its not NTR, but what kinda player do you think gets his PP hard watching sex tapes, photos and loves hearing in autistic details about other men fucking the person they are romancing?

What narrative purpose do you think those type of scene have in the story? What type of audience do you think its targeting, what sort of emotions do you think they are designed to evoke? So you see, the game indeed shouldn't be tagged, but it also shouldn't insult peoples intelligence with loopholes and mental gymnastics, maybe a less misleading OP disclaimer than 'All fetishes are optional' would serve better a vanilla player stumbling into this thread, don't you think? At least it would be a start, since transparency is everything in our little genre.

This also depends on how she talks about it. If she keeps comparing how inferior you are to her past lovers in a humiliating fashion, roleplay or not, it can be considered cuckoldry.

There is plenty of content designed to target the armchair populace that doesn't fit a specific tag, yet for whatever reason the real mystery for me remains why enjoyers of that type of content fight so hard to not be associated with content designed to pander to them? One would think that mature and open-minded individuals such as themselves will be all about embracing it and pounding their chest about it.

Steph is obviously traumatized by her sexual and stripper pasts (thanks to her abusive ex), so I can't see how anyone could call that NTR. You can even break up with her after her confession/you finding out.

Steph at least regrets her past, not that makes her any better as a romantic partner, since rape and blackmail as LI backstory has been done to death since 2016 to now, but Tiffany is actually very proud about her getting gangbanged by strangers and Lord knows what else is in the Vanessa' stories mentioned in the Beta scene

This reminds me, Fleur(if there is any route with her) is the Tiffany/Steph routes done with respect to players time, ironically. You find her videos and photos, you find out how nuts she is and then you can chose to pursue her or not, instead of finding out about their unsavory pasts 3/4 of the way in their routes after investing years of your time playing, or worse supporting the game, as a twist tm.

Now that I think about it, there are so many fucking videos, photos and stories about almost every single girl in the game, it has to be a fetish of the dev, otherwise it makes no fucking sense why its so prevalent. How many people with sex tapes do any of you have in your immediate circles and how many of their current partners love revisiting that topic?

 

[NebulousShooter]

Back on my initial post about this pretty much ruining the game for me, Just like Vidal so kindly explained a few pages back, it completely changes how you view the characters, this is not about virginity, or not, this is about the type of info that would turn off most of the planet from dating this type of girls and the shitty way that reveal happens so far along their routes just make me and players like me feel tricked.

Pandora's box has been opened, if she confesses on murdering someone, you can't pretend in your save where you didn't ask her about it that this character you are romancing isn't a murderer.

Thats why I used the murder example, figure giving something that extrema will make even the slowest people get the concept of having that info is enough to turn you off from a character, even if in that save you don't ask for details, but apparently not...

I already unwatched, but it looks like need to ignore the thread since I keep getting notifications.

Ending with an ironic fact, Jenna the 'Psycho ex' turns out to be one of the most normal relationships in the game, how fucked up is that?

 

[c3p0]

I already unwatched, but it looks like need to ignore the thread since I keep getting notifications.

Life with the consequence of your action. If you write something in a thread - and by all means you can - then don't be suprised about if someone answered even though it is not what you like. And if you can write your opion, we can too.

...after investing years of your time playing...

So you invest over 1'500 hours into this game?

...or worse supporting the game, as a twist tm.

And we heard that don't happen to any one in RL, game or any other product. As we are on a pirate forum and most of us play without giving the dev a single coin, talking about that here makes a lot of sense.

Its not NTR, but what kinda player do you think gets his PP hard watching sex tapes, photos and loves hearing in autistic details about other men fucking the person they are romancing?

As it is a kink, much more than you think? 20'500 games here and we have 1'700 with netorare and 4'000 with netorare, cheating,swinging or prostitution. That make 8% of the former and 20% of the later.
Also if that would be true, then why do have prostitute or adult performer partner and working realationship?

 

[Maviarab]

So you invest over 1'500 hours into this game?

Well it has been 6 years in July The unfortunate issue with most episodic VN's

 

[juice2000]

Its part of her backstory, the hell are you on about? If you close your eyes doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You get to ask her about that, because she hints that there are unsavory details about her past ,therefore they exist regardless of 'choices'. Same way you can't not watch the Steph tapes, that doesn't make them stop existing. Like what kinda logic is that? You are not going back and editing their pasts


Since it's you I am going to make an effort, one last time, just beacuse it doesn't qualify for a specific tag doesn't mean content can't be designed to do the exact same thing, thats why its commonly called technically not type content. Everyone not disingenuous on this topic gets it, the fact that it was popularized by Inceton should give everyone a hint why it exists in a specific case.

Its not NTR, but what kinda player do you think gets his PP hard watching sex tapes, photos and loves hearing in autistic details about other men fucking the person they are romancing?

What narrative purpose do you think those type of scene have in the story? What type of audience do you think its targeting, what sort of emotions do you think they are designed to evoke? So you see, the game indeed shouldn't be tagged, but it also shouldn't insult peoples intelligence with loopholes and mental gymnastics, maybe a less misleading OP disclaimer than 'All fetishes are optional' would serve better a vanilla player stumbling into this thread, don't you think? At least it would be a start, since transparency is everything in our little genre.

There is plenty of content designed to target the armchair populace that doesn't fit a specific tag, yet for whatever reason the real mystery for me remains why enjoyers of that type of content fight so hard to not be associated with content designed to pander to them? One would think that mature and open-minded individuals such as themselves will be all about embracing it and pounding their chest about it.
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Steph at least regrets her past, not that makes her any better as a romantic partner, since rape and blackmail as LI backstory has been done to death since 2016 to now, but Tiffany is actually very proud about her getting gangbanged by strangers and Lord knows what else is in the Vanessa' stories mentioned in the Beta scene

This reminds me, Fleur(if there is any route with her) is the Tiffany/Steph routes done with respect to players time, ironically. You find her videos and photos, you find out how nuts she is and then you can chose to pursue her or not, instead of finding out about their unsavory pasts 3/4 of the way in their routes after investing years of your time playing, or worse supporting the game, as a twist tm.

Now that I think about it, there are so many fucking videos, photos and stories about almost every single girl in the game, it has to be a fetish of the dev, otherwise it makes no fucking sense why its so prevalent. How many people with sex tapes do any of you have in your immediate circles and how many of their current partners love revisiting that topic?

Look ill explain it easier. Lets say your playing Mass effect, at various points your asked about your back story. You have multiple choices, all different. None is true until you choose it then it becomes canon. You cant pick more than one, the other 2 cease to exist once you pick one. Like with Tiffany you can only pick one the other 2 answers fail to exist and if you so happen to not like your outcome you can reload and shape your character/Tiff differently.

The fact we as an outside entity with the power to see all options available does not make all options canon. The choice you pick and how you choose to shape her should and is the only path that matters in how and who Tiff or any other character is. Much like in a game like Mass Effect again Sheperd is neither Paragon or Renegade until you choose it then the other options become invalid EVEN though they exist with the construct and the code of the game.

Ide just like to add as well while i respect some may like to have a characters personality and motives layed out from the first time you set eyes on them. Its alot more fun to some to get to know sombody and who they are and if at any point its not to my taste move on. Add a bit of mystery and realisum to the game rather than have it all layed out on a platter to pick through.

Regardless of either opinion on the matter a dev should not be called out in the ways they have on here because they choose to not give everything to the players at once and add a little realisum into meeting people.

 

[WarriorSteel]

I forgot how Vanessa/Ellie path start, is focus on Vanessa then cheat with Ellie? Secret relationship with Ellie or Vanessa found out?

Both think you are their boyfriend and are in a monogamous relationship. You skip meeting Ellie's family to go to Tiffany's wedding.