tnmleto2

Newbie
Dec 29, 2017
20
14
I don't know if it's a known issue but i got this bug
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just after this (near the end of prologue)
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any advice to pass it?
 
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Master of Puppets

Conversation Conqueror
Oct 5, 2017
7,352
9,710
Bronze IS softer; it also isn't subject to the same kind of corrosion as iron/steel and doesn't break down in saltwater the way iron and steel do. Might want to learn a bit more about metallurgy and chemistry if you're going to make such claims.
What kind of iron? Wrought iron is very soft, bronze IS harder than it. The range of material properties that iron alloys can have is extremely wide.
 

Yngling

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2020
1,484
3,148
Further to the bronze vs iron debate:

- Bronze can be cast into any shape. Once you have a good mold and know what you are doing, you can create a huge variety of shapes. Such shapes would be quite complicated to forge in iron. This is why bronze weapons tend to look fundamentally different than iron weapons. It might be that these complicated shapes in bronze weapons have some kind of religious meaning rather than a functional (or even a purely decorative) one.

- Iron is way cheaper than bronze. This is because iron can be made from a single resource (iron ore) rather than bronze which needs to be made from copper and tin, which are rarely available in the same location and thus at least one of the components had to be traded over considerable distances. As a result, equipping an army with bronze weapons was generally prohibitively expensive but equipping them with iron weapons was somewhat feasible in many locations.

Functional weapons can be made out of bronze and primitive iron. They will be functionally similar. Bronze might be slightly better but this is more than offset with the possibility to arm more warriors with iron weapons.

Bronze may have looked more posh but we see in the early iron age that bronze sword models were, in fact, reproduced in iron, even though the designs weren't really suitable for that (leaf-shaped blades, lots of ridges etc.). So it seems even the elites did actually adopt iron once it became available. The reasons are obviously unknown to us.
 

Bob69

Uploading the World
Uploader
Donor
Compressor
Mar 2, 2019
9,255
80,961
Hmm. Will see in a bit. I assume it’s the Compression? Please spoiler the pictures.

Still no problem with the compression or the patch or the original file. Did you use the Crash fix? When did you download?

I don't know if it's a known issue but i got this bug
View attachment 3338868

just after this (near the end of prologue)
View attachment 3338943

any advice to pass it?
Did you use the Crash fix? When did you download? Also put pictures into a spoiler please.
 
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Kompas

Newbie
Sep 28, 2019
56
37
Hmm. Will see in a bit. I assume it’s the Compression? Please spoiler the pictures.

Still no problem with the compression or the patch or the original file. Did you use the Crash fix? When did you download?


Did you use the Crash fix? When did you download? Also put pictures into a spoiler please.
Tried the fix too. Still crashes. Maybe because I'm using Joiplay?
 

Master of Puppets

Conversation Conqueror
Oct 5, 2017
7,352
9,710
True enough, but even wrought is technically harder, though it's more brittle due to the way it's smelted, worked and the lack of alloying materials. So, while you might shatter wrought, you'll still likely dent/deform bronze before that point. I've had lengthy discussions about this stuff in my weapons groups - been a collector and have done significant research on such things for nearly two decades.
. See those numbers? Actual numbers on the Vickers scale, bronze is 2-3 times harder than wrought iron. I don't know why you are talking about "shattering" anything, toughness/brittleness is independent of hardness. I studied material science at university.
 
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kelelih

Newbie
May 13, 2022
24
35
Further to the bronze vs iron debate:

- Iron is way cheaper than bronze. This is because iron can be made from a single resource (iron ore) rather than bronze which needs to be made from copper and tin, which are rarely available in the same location and thus at least one of the components had to be traded over considerable distances. As a result, equipping an army with bronze weapons was generally prohibitively expensive but equipping them with iron weapons was somewhat feasible in many locations.

Bronze may have looked more posh but we see in the early iron age that bronze sword models were, in fact, reproduced in iron, even though the designs weren't really suitable for that (leaf-shaped blades, lots of ridges etc.). So it seems even the elites did actually adopt iron once it became available. The reasons are obviously unknown to us.
Further further to the bronze vs. iron debate:

I don't have any insight in toughness or brittleness, but I have studied the economics of Bronze/Iron Age, and you are right; Iron was MUCH easier and cheaper to produce, as long as you had access to the ore, and even if you hadn't it was, again, cheap to buy. The tin needed to make bronze was extracted from less than a dozen places (at least in Bronze Age Europe and the Middle East) and had to be imported, often over VERY long distances. It was incredible expensive, meaning that bronze weaponry - not to mention armour - was usually reserved for the elite only. Losing access to tin trade could potentially topple entire nations (much like oil today).

By comparison, entire armies could relatively easily be equipped with comparably cheap iron weapons and armour which as far as I understand was of just as good (or better depending on who you ask) quality than their bronze counterparts. It made sense to switch to iron economically and politically. There is no sense in keeping a monopoly on an expensive military product if your enemies can get a cheaper version of similar quality and use it against you.

Either way, since Desert Stalker is set in a post-apocalyptic setting it doesn't really matter. The steel from 21st century Egyptian buildings alone would be enough to remake into an arsenal. It would be fun though if they had to import other vital goods from abroad, like Bronze Age tin. Maybe we get to see Igor provide such services in the future?
 

Xythurr

Active Member
Oct 29, 2017
723
1,424
Further further to the bronze vs. iron debate:

I don't have any insight in toughness or brittleness, but I have studied the economics of Bronze/Iron Age, and you are right; Iron was MUCH easier and cheaper to produce, as long as you had access to the ore, and even if you hadn't it was, again, cheap to buy. The tin needed to make bronze was extracted from less than a dozen places (at least in Bronze Age Europe and the Middle East) and had to be imported, often over VERY long distances. It was incredible expensive, meaning that bronze weaponry - not to mention armour - was usually reserved for the elite only. Losing access to tin trade could potentially topple entire nations (much like oil today).

By comparison, entire armies could relatively easily be equipped with comparably cheap iron weapons and armour which as far as I understand was of just as good (or better depending on who you ask) quality than their bronze counterparts. It made sense to switch to iron economically and politically. There is no sense in keeping a monopoly on an expensive military product if your enemies can get a cheaper version of similar quality and use it against you.

Either way, since Desert Stalker is set in a post-apocalyptic setting it doesn't really matter. The steel from 21st century Egyptian buildings alone would be enough to remake into an arsenal. It would be fun though if they had to import other vital goods from abroad, like Bronze Age tin. Maybe we get to see Igor provide such services in the future?
This debate is all well and good but I dare say most of us aren't here for retro-futuristic post-apocalyptic metallurgy.
We're here for post-apocalyptic poon and to found a dynasty who's family tree is instead a circle.
05587372-6be2-41a3-a272-73d325376a48_text.gif
 

wildride69

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2023
1,005
2,309
This debate is all well and good but I dare say most of us aren't here for retro-futuristic post-apocalyptic metallurgy.
We're here for post-apocalyptic poon and to found a dynasty who's family tree is instead a circle.
View attachment 3339945
Aww man I was just about to break out my Tolkien knowledge In Tolkien's Middle-earth, mithril is extremely rare by the end of the Third Age, as it was now found only in Khazad-dûm. Once the Balrog destroyed Khazad-dûm, the kingdom of the Dwarves in Moria, the only source of new mithril ore was cut off. Also the regular gold vs enchanted gold found in the One True Ring but if you would rather discuss poon than the glory of precious metals...:sneaky: :ROFLMAO:
 
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