Not really. It is how people deal with bad things that they had to do for whatever reason. I'm quite sure that, for example, the CEO of a modern day mining company has a nice family life, even though the mine workers do a dangerous job for insufficient pay. The same applies for people working for some intelligence agency. Perhaps these agents know somehow that some of the things the do are morally questionable, but they are also convinced that it has to be done for the "greater good".
Also, Zaton is doing whatever he does outside our modern social context. We have insufficient information to know what would be considered moral in Zeta, but I am quite sure he doesn't think of himself as a bad guy. He's just a Stalker and with that job comes certain things.
As such, I don't think there is a "good" path and a "bad" path, because those paths would be judged by our moral standards.
When the choices come down to "be nice" and "be not so nice", then they can obviously be judged from a player's perspective. Trading Ivy's life for some stuff isn't really morally grey for example, when it's a choice between unlocking more content or not. We also know that compassion is still a thing, because we get the choice to let Zaton teach Shani about it or not.
Nah bruv they gonna attack the queen as soon as they get enough firepower
Because, i noticed from the dialogue, their mutant leader is full of revenge.
She gonna nuke this place.
If Ivy was a leader then i might consider helping em
Also, why would they need allies, firepower and your help if they dont plan to attack/use it. I doubt its just for show off lol
I (Zaton? everything starts with Z god damn it) come first, and I support what's good for me and the girls. Currently that's Zeta and/or the raider clan lead by the sisters and by extension by me. I guess there will be a lot more fighting with the raider clans but that 1-armed wench doesn't stand the chance of an ice cube in hell if we're honest.
Maybe I'll let Shani cut her into bologna and feed her to Fairy. This game does things to my mental state dude
We know the code of Zeta: MC is THE HAND OF THE RULER, AS HIS MENTOR BEFORE HIM.
The slaves are to be used and not abused. Queen uses her slaves purposefully. Any other way is waste and MC gives punishment for that. You keep what you kill is the way outside of Zeta.
I do agree with Yngling's conclusion, but not with justification. Nothing should stop us from judging MC path by our moral standards. Of course I agree that:
(...) Zaton is doing whatever he does outside our modern social context. We have insufficient information to know what would be considered moral in Zeta, but I am quite sure he doesn't think of himself as a bad guy. He's just a Stalker and with that job comes certain things. (...)
I think that it would be nice, if we would be presented with more information about what is considered moral in Zeta. While having insufficient information on what is moral in Zeta we can only judge Zaton by our moral standards.
By the way, the thing that Zaton probably doesn't think of himself as a bad guy is quite fun in the context of his thought from the prolog and words of Fang. [
So judging Zaton by my culture and religion standards - Zaton is evil. At most he acts morally good (kind, with compassion etc.) from time to time. What is more, I do not know any moral systems that could support a statement that he is a "good guy" overall. It's simply not possible to play as a "good guy" overall, as of version 0.11b.
As such I'm in favor of seeing Zaton's paths as evil, less evil and more evil.
While I want to answer all people’s posts about Zaton's paths (most have at least a few valid points imo) I'll restrain myself and simply answer the Unicornelia question.
I think that the least evil path for Zaton is to love everybody and restraining himself from almost everything, especially from sex outside of marriage. Everything else can be derived from it. He should restain himself from: touching sexually his daughters; having sex with women, except his wife; killing anybody (impossible ig in full). He should not: keep slaves, share his family, allowing himself to loose his temper (impossible ig in full). He should: respect others (impossible ig in full), value his friends (possible in game, but in some cases in conflict with other more important values), be generous (possible in game, but in some cases in conflict with other more important values) ...
I think it would be simple to type what I think about your statements.
1. "Household can have fun with other people" - No. He can seek husbands for his stepdaughters (mentioned by MC, but not in game yet?), but his stepdaughters should be able to decide if they want: 1) marry anybody; 2) marry chosen candidats
2. MC saves as much women as he can (unless they are monsters)" - Close. He should save as many living beings as possible, but ensure that monsters can not harm anybody (not possible in full ig).
3. "Loyal to Zeta and Queen"- Yes, and he should try to change the Queen to be more moral (not possible in full ig).
4."Dismisses alliance with monsters such as decayed or hive" - true.
5."Goes for diplomatic options when possible"- true
6."spares life when possible"-true
7."kind to slaves/adopted women in the household"-true
8."only does sexual stuff when it is kinda/romantic/consensual" - No. Only does consensual sexual stuff with his wife.
Overall your “GOOD GUY run” is quite similar to what I see as a less evil path.
If you are interested in experiencing moral dilemmas in post apocalyptic settings I can recommend you to play Now & Then. I haven't finished it yet, nor checked every option, but I already think that even acting in accordance with our modern moral standards (it’s possible ig, I think, but I gave up, cause it causes that ->) you are a bad guy there. I would love to discuss it with you, after we both finish it.
Fair warning: game is very slow paced and is less visually attractive compared to Desert Stalker, if that matters to you.
I've been trying to come up with something to say on this topic of good vs evil paths and I really can't. For me, this game approached me with a very traditional kill or be killed vibe, do you keep your modern standards/moral compass in a game that is suppose to be a completely 'survival-of-the-fittest', or do you adapt yourself to fullfill the customs & codes the Zeta lives by.
Would you let people take advantage of your family if you're not around, and if not, why would you be the respectable one in a land where everyone is looking out for themselves? Being selfish is expected at times, and you do have the choice to do good sometimes and that definitely outweights the bad choices you might've done. — Some people just deserve to die, man, and I really believe that this game embodies that. I don't know, I might be full of shit, but those are my 2 cents.
Also, the Queen needs some lessons, hopefully we'll get to that stage one day.
My personal bad guy Zaton wouldn't really care about the greater good. That would be reserved for another playthrough.
When the choices come down to "be nice" and "be not so nice", then they can obviously be judged from a player's perspective. Trading Ivy's life for some stuff isn't really morally grey for example, when it's a choice between unlocking more content or not. We also know that compassion is still a thing, because we get the choice to let Zaton teach Shani about it or not.
I think that it would be nice, if we would be presented with more information about what is considered moral in Zeta. While having insufficient information on what is moral in Zeta we can only judge Zaton by our moral standards.
No, without knowing the moral standards, we should reserve judgement about good or bad until we know more.
The only thing we can say now is whether action x may be beneficial to Zaton, to his House or to Zeta. Ïf it is beneficial for one of those, then it's probably also moral, given the context of a post-apocalypic world where Zeta is one of the few places where some kind of civil society can exist.
To me, unlocking content seems to irrelevant to this discussion.
By the way, the thing that Zaton probably doesn't think of himself as a bad guy is quite fun in the context of his thought from the prolog and words of Fang. [
So judging Zaton by my culture and religion standards - Zaton is evil. At most he acts morally good (kind, with compassion etc.) from time to time. What is more, I do not know any moral systems that could support a statement that he is a "good guy" overall. It's simply not possible to play as a "good guy" overall, as of version 0.11b.
I think that the least evil path for Zaton is to love everybody and restraining himself from almost everything, especially from sex outside of marriage. Everything else can be derived from it. He should restain himself from: touching sexually his daughters; having sex with women, except his wife; killing anybody (impossible ig in full). He should not: keep slaves, share his family, allowing himself to loose his temper (impossible ig in full). He should: respect others (impossible ig in full), value his friends (possible in game, but in some cases in conflict with other more important values), be generous (possible in game, but in some cases in conflict with other more important values) ...
Of course you can try playing like that if you want, and who can say that it's wrong, but I don't see any of that being moral in Zetan society.
In fact, Shani resents Zaton for NOT touching her, for example. His wife not only accepts Zaton fucking other women, she encourages it and seems to get off on it. Etc. Ain doesn't seem to be so keen on the sharing however, it seems she only does it to please Zaton.
1. "Household can have fun with other people" - No. He can seek husbands for his stepdaughters (mentioned by MC, but not in game yet?), but his stepdaughters should be able to decide if they want: 1) marry anybody; 2) marry chosen candidats
But obviously not. Ain should be married off to a political ally of Zaton's choice. Shani, being the future head of the House, is somewhat more complicated but probably the same. She'll see the reason behind that. Love is luxury no one can afford. You may only get lucky, like Zaton did with his wife.
2. MC saves as much women as he can (unless they are monsters)" - Close. He should save as many living beings as possible, but ensure that monsters can not harm anybody (not possible in full ig).
The problem is that most people outside Zeta seem to be monsters though... But yeah, saving people, especially (non-mutated) women, seems like the right thing to do.
5."Goes for diplomatic options when possible"- true
6."spares life when possible"-true
7."kind to slaves/adopted women in the household"-true
8."only does sexual stuff when it is kinda/romantic/consensual" - No. Only does consensual sexual stuff with his wife.
IMO, perhaps Yuna will be instrumental in changing (or challenging) the status quo of the Zetan's moral code/standard by introducing (or re-introducing) the moral codes of the previous civilization(s). She already displeased with slavery while talking with Zaton at her super secret bunker.
So far, except for the ample sexual liberation and the acceptance of incest, at least on a ricreational level, it doesn't seem that the motal values of the zetan society are much far from out own. Which is rather typical because the more you depict a societ as exotic the more the story gets confusing for the general audience and there is need to explain by telling.
See for fun how many youtobe channel after the latest Villeneuve's Dune came out with the most misleading theories and prediction, not having read the novels and not having the movie explaining things openly.
So, i was saying, the morale seems to be pretty much the same minus the general prudeness that comes from the roman/ebraic/christian influence on western culture.
I mean. To steal is still despised. Omicide is still a crime (which was not really in a big chunk of recent european history). Violence doesn't seem to be accepted outside the same boundaries of modern society (self defence, peacekeeping, war...). The anarchic and brutal lifestyle of the raides is deprecated and so on.
Also it seems to be implied that while you can do pretty much whatever you want with your slaves, mistreath them is not well received but the public opinion.
We could object that zetan society accepts slavery and it is racist against decayed and mutants. And to moder sensitivity this seems unconcievable... But zetan society is also an isolated civilization struggling to survive under the constant menace of everyone who is 'other' then zetan, raiders, settlements, decayeds and problably also a few mutants, and it has no technology.
I'm sorry if it offends someone but society with no technology tend to develop forms of slavery or servitude. It doesn't make it right but it's something they can try to avoid due to philosophical choices and it's ultimately needed. Just like a sense of belonging and identity to defend themselves from external dangers.
So, wrapping up my analisys, zetan socety is a normal classic era society plus the fuck like rabbists.
I had the distinguished discussion with gentlemen about morality in the porn game. Was thinking if I could write something not utterly stupid, and now you have ruined everything.
I downloaded this game because I liked the screenshots of it on the front page, I did not know that I would actually be sucked in to it's story. This game is really deep in pretty much every way, I can't wait for more!!
