Ren'Py Desert Stalker [v0.19.4] [Zetan]

[Cpt.SumTingWong]

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[Ukghar]

Question to players... how GOOD GUY run and BAD GUY run looks in your eyes?
(...)
Thoughts?

First off, I love that your post caused quite a discussion, good job!
Second, as some people typed (JohnF95zone, Yngling) there is no "good guy run".

Firstly, there is no 'GOOD' guy vs 'BAD' guy path per se (...)

(...) I don't think there is a "good" path and a "bad" path, because those paths would be judged by our moral standards.

I do agree with Yngling's conclusion, but not with justification. Nothing should stop us from judging MC path by our moral standards. Of course I agree that:

(...) Zaton is doing whatever he does outside our modern social context. We have insufficient information to know what would be considered moral in Zeta, but I am quite sure he doesn't think of himself as a bad guy. He's just a Stalker and with that job comes certain things. (...)

I think that it would be nice, if we would be presented with more information about what is considered moral in Zeta. While having insufficient information on what is moral in Zeta we can only judge Zaton by our moral standards.

By the way, the thing that Zaton probably doesn't think of himself as a bad guy is quite fun in the context of his thought from the prolog and words of Fang. [

Spoiler: Zaton's lack of self-awareness?

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So judging Zaton by my culture and religion standards - Zaton is evil. At most he acts morally good (kind, with compassion etc.) from time to time. What is more, I do not know any moral systems that could support a statement that he is a "good guy" overall. It's simply not possible to play as a "good guy" overall, as of version 0.11b.

As such I'm in favor of seeing Zaton's paths as evil, less evil and more evil.

While I want to answer all people’s posts about Zaton's paths (most have at least a few valid points imo) I'll restrain myself and simply answer the Unicornelia question.

I think that the least evil path for Zaton is to love everybody and restraining himself from almost everything, especially from sex outside of marriage. Everything else can be derived from it. He should restain himself from: touching sexually his daughters; having sex with women, except his wife; killing anybody (impossible ig in full). He should not: keep slaves, share his family, allowing himself to loose his temper (impossible ig in full). He should: respect others (impossible ig in full), value his friends (possible in game, but in some cases in conflict with other more important values), be generous (possible in game, but in some cases in conflict with other more important values) ...

I think it would be simple to type what I think about your statements.


1. "Household can have fun with other people" - No. He can seek husbands for his stepdaughters (mentioned by MC, but not in game yet?), but his stepdaughters should be able to decide if they want: 1) marry anybody; 2) marry chosen candidats

2. MC saves as much women as he can (unless they are monsters)" - Close. He should save as many living beings as possible, but ensure that monsters can not harm anybody (not possible in full ig).

3. "Loyal to Zeta and Queen"- Yes, and he should try to change the Queen to be more moral (not possible in full ig).

4."Dismisses alliance with monsters such as decayed or hive" - true.
5."Goes for diplomatic options when possible"- true
6."spares life when possible"-true
7."kind to slaves/adopted women in the household"-true
8."only does sexual stuff when it is kinda/romantic/consensual" - No. Only does consensual sexual stuff with his wife.


Overall your “GOOD GUY run” is quite similar to what I see as a less evil path.

If you are interested in experiencing moral dilemmas in post apocalyptic settings I can recommend you to play Now & Then. I haven't finished it yet, nor checked every option, but I already think that even acting in accordance with our modern moral standards (it’s possible ig, I think, but I gave up, cause it causes that ->) you are a bad guy there. I would love to discuss it with you, after we both finish it.

Fair warning: game is very slow paced and is less visually attractive compared to Desert Stalker, if that matters to you.

 

[DirtyMario]

[...]Zaton is the true Zetan.[...]

I dearly hope Paz adds a pair of antagonists called Zotan and Zatin.
I mean, we already started.

As such I'm in favor of seeing Zaton's paths as evil, less evil and more evil.

Spoiler

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Overall your “GOOD GUY run” is quite similar to what I see as a less evil path. god damn fuckin boring

Fixed that for you.

 

[Ukghar]

(...) “GOOD GUY run” is god damn fuckin boring

Not always. Devs predicted that sb may want to try something different.

Spoiler

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[comte bonfim]

I've been trying to come up with something to say on this topic of good vs evil paths and I really can't. For me, this game approached me with a very traditional kill or be killed vibe, do you keep your modern standards/moral compass in a game that is suppose to be a completely 'survival-of-the-fittest', or do you adapt yourself to fullfill the customs & codes the Zeta lives by.

Would you let people take advantage of your family if you're not around, and if not, why would you be the respectable one in a land where everyone is looking out for themselves? Being selfish is expected at times, and you do have the choice to do good sometimes and that definitely outweights the bad choices you might've done. — Some people just deserve to die, man, and I really believe that this game embodies that. I don't know, I might be full of shit, but those are my 2 cents.

Also, the Queen needs some lessons, hopefully we'll get to that stage one day.

 

[Yngling]

My personal bad guy Zaton wouldn't really care about the greater good. That would be reserved for another playthrough.

When the choices come down to "be nice" and "be not so nice", then they can obviously be judged from a player's perspective. Trading Ivy's life for some stuff isn't really morally grey for example, when it's a choice between unlocking more content or not. We also know that compassion is still a thing, because we get the choice to let Zaton teach Shani about it or not.

I think that it would be nice, if we would be presented with more information about what is considered moral in Zeta. While having insufficient information on what is moral in Zeta we can only judge Zaton by our moral standards.

No, without knowing the moral standards, we should reserve judgement about good or bad until we know more.

The only thing we can say now is whether action x may be beneficial to Zaton, to his House or to Zeta. Ïf it is beneficial for one of those, then it's probably also moral, given the context of a post-apocalypic world where Zeta is one of the few places where some kind of civil society can exist.

To me, unlocking content seems to irrelevant to this discussion.

By the way, the thing that Zaton probably doesn't think of himself as a bad guy is quite fun in the context of his thought from the prolog and words of Fang. [

Spoiler: Zaton's lack of self-awareness?

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Interesting point!

So judging Zaton by my culture and religion standards - Zaton is evil. At most he acts morally good (kind, with compassion etc.) from time to time. What is more, I do not know any moral systems that could support a statement that he is a "good guy" overall. It's simply not possible to play as a "good guy" overall, as of version 0.11b.

I can't follow this reasoning. See also what I wrote above about actions being beneficial.

I think that the least evil path for Zaton is to love everybody and restraining himself from almost everything, especially from sex outside of marriage. Everything else can be derived from it. He should restain himself from: touching sexually his daughters; having sex with women, except his wife; killing anybody (impossible ig in full). He should not: keep slaves, share his family, allowing himself to loose his temper (impossible ig in full). He should: respect others (impossible ig in full), value his friends (possible in game, but in some cases in conflict with other more important values), be generous (possible in game, but in some cases in conflict with other more important values) ...

Of course you can try playing like that if you want, and who can say that it's wrong, but I don't see any of that being moral in Zetan society.

In fact, Shani resents Zaton for NOT touching her, for example. His wife not only accepts Zaton fucking other women, she encourages it and seems to get off on it. Etc. Ain doesn't seem to be so keen on the sharing however, it seems she only does it to please Zaton.

1. "Household can have fun with other people" - No. He can seek husbands for his stepdaughters (mentioned by MC, but not in game yet?), but his stepdaughters should be able to decide if they want: 1) marry anybody; 2) marry chosen candidats

Step?

But obviously not. Ain should be married off to a political ally of Zaton's choice. Shani, being the future head of the House, is somewhat more complicated but probably the same. She'll see the reason behind that. Love is luxury no one can afford. You may only get lucky, like Zaton did with his wife.

2. MC saves as much women as he can (unless they are monsters)" - Close. He should save as many living beings as possible, but ensure that monsters can not harm anybody (not possible in full ig).

The problem is that most people outside Zeta seem to be monsters though... But yeah, saving people, especially (non-mutated) women, seems like the right thing to do.

3. "Loyal to Zeta and Queen"- Yes, and he should try to change the Queen to be more moral (not possible in full ig).

Loyal, yes. But I think the Queen needs to be ruthless in order to stay in power. Which in itself is beneficial to both Zaton and Zeta.

4."Dismisses alliance with monsters such as decayed or hive" - true.

I think I agree. Although they could be powerful allies they are probably too dangerous.

5."Goes for diplomatic options when possible"- true
6."spares life when possible"-true
7."kind to slaves/adopted women in the household"-true
8."only does sexual stuff when it is kinda/romantic/consensual" - No. Only does consensual sexual stuff with his wife.

5. agreed
6. see (2) above
7. agreed
8. perhaps but see (1) above

If you are interested in experiencing moral dilemmas in post apocalyptic settings I can recommend you to play Now & Then

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll check it out!

 

[JohnF95zone]

No, without knowing the moral standards, we should reserve judgement about good or bad until we know more.

IMO, perhaps Yuna will be instrumental in changing (or challenging) the status quo of the Zetan's moral code/standard by introducing (or re-introducing) the moral codes of the previous civilization(s). She already displeased with slavery while talking with Zaton at her super secret bunker.

 

[Machete]

No, without knowing the moral standards, we should reserve judgement about good or bad until we know more.

So far, except for the ample sexual liberation and the acceptance of incest, at least on a ricreational level, it doesn't seem that the motal values of the zetan society are much far from out own. Which is rather typical because the more you depict a societ as exotic the more the story gets confusing for the general audience and there is need to explain by telling.

See for fun how many youtobe channel after the latest Villeneuve's Dune came out with the most misleading theories and prediction, not having read the novels and not having the movie explaining things openly.

So, i was saying, the morale seems to be pretty much the same minus the general prudeness that comes from the roman/ebraic/christian influence on western culture.

I mean. To steal is still despised. Omicide is still a crime (which was not really in a big chunk of recent european history). Violence doesn't seem to be accepted outside the same boundaries of modern society (self defence, peacekeeping, war...). The anarchic and brutal lifestyle of the raides is deprecated and so on.

Also it seems to be implied that while you can do pretty much whatever you want with your slaves, mistreath them is not well received but the public opinion.

We could object that zetan society accepts slavery and it is racist against decayed and mutants. And to moder sensitivity this seems unconcievable... But zetan society is also an isolated civilization struggling to survive under the constant menace of everyone who is 'other' then zetan, raiders, settlements, decayeds and problably also a few mutants, and it has no technology.

I'm sorry if it offends someone but society with no technology tend to develop forms of slavery or servitude. It doesn't make it right but it's something they can try to avoid due to philosophical choices and it's ultimately needed. Just like a sense of belonging and identity to defend themselves from external dangers.

So, wrapping up my analisys, zetan socety is a normal classic era society plus the fuck like rabbists.

 

[Kellermann]

Shani - Right ballsack
Ain - Left ballsack
Kat - Shaft
Zahra - Bellend

My only decision is do I want them to rotate clockwise or counter-clockwise?



Or we could do a version of musical chairs, but using my junk instead of chairs. When the music stops, who can sit on the meatstick first.

 

[Ukghar]

Shani - Right ballsack
Ain - Left ballsack
Kat - Shaft
Zahra - Bellend

My only decision is do I want them to rotate clockwise or counter-clockwise?



Or we could do a version of musical chairs, but using my junk instead of chairs. When the music stops, who can sit on the meatstick first.

How could you?!

I had the distinguished discussion with gentlemen about morality in the porn game. Was thinking if I could write something not utterly stupid, and now you have ruined everything.

I'll take care of something for a while ...

 

[omegashrn]

I downloaded this game because I liked the screenshots of it on the front page, I did not know that I would actually be sucked in to it's story. This game is really deep in pretty much every way, I can't wait for more!!

 

[Drakenite]

Is the latest version off of beta yet? (official release)?

 

[JohnF95zone]

Is the latest version off of beta yet? (official release)?

v0.11b (Official Public Release) has been available on this site for at least 4 days now, since last Wednesday. Enjoy!

 

[Glorious Cat]

My only decision is do I want them to rotate clockwise or counter-clockwise?

In doubt, go with your position on the hemisphere at the time (coriolis effect)

 

[Hornycowboy89]

Would it be possible redo the saves so me and other people can delete our saves if there are to many of them? For example I have 2 saves and I want to delete one of them that is not at the end of the last update.

 

[Machete]

Would it be possible redo the saves so me and other people can delete our saves if there are to many of them? For example I have 2 saves and I want to delete one of them that is not at the end of the last update.

You can delete them from the saving folder. It's a bit tricky becase there are actually 2 distinct saving folder in ren'py and you need to delete both. One is in tha game folder itself. The other is in system folder windows/users/[username]/AppData/Roaming/RenPy. You can see the save file with the page number in the name and the page position. So if you want to delete like the second save down row in page 7, you delete the file 7-5[name].save

 

[JohnF95zone]

You can delete them from the saving folder. It's a bit tricky becase there are actually 2 distinct saving folder in ren'py and you need to delete both. One is in tha game folder itself. The other is in system folder windows/users/[username]/AppData/Roaming/RenPy. You can see the save file with the page number in the name and the page position. So if you want to delete like the second save down row in page 7, you delete the file 7-5[name].save

Indeed. That is why he is asking for that feature to be included in the game itself. Most players aren't tech savy enough to even figure out the information provided in the OP for example, let alone to be familiar with Ren'Py 'internal' workings.

At the moment, this is the option (deleting saves) that is available to players, but it would be nice to have that Quality of Life (improvement) feature added to the game itself. Cheers.

 

[Hornycowboy89]

You can delete them from the saving folder. It's a bit tricky becase there are actually 2 distinct saving folder in ren'py and you need to delete both. One is in tha game folder itself. The other is in system folder windows/users/[username]/AppData/Roaming/RenPy. You can see the save file with the page number in the name and the page position. So if you want to delete like the second save down row in page 7, you delete the file 7-5[name].save
[/QUOTE

Indeed. That is why he is asking for that feature to be included in the game itself. Most players aren't tech savy enough to even figure out the information provided in the OP for example, let alone to be familiar with Ren'Py 'internal' workings.

At the moment, this is the option (deleting saves) that is available to players, but it would be nice to have that Quality of Life (improvement) feature added to the game itself. Cheers.

Yeah I'm not very computer smart and I don't think my chromebook even has that

 

[GetOutOfMyLab]

Would it be possible redo the saves so me and other people can delete our saves if there are to many of them? For example I have 2 saves and I want to delete one of them that is not at the end of the last update.

If you open the game and go to saves, hover over each one, hit your "del" or "Delete" key, you will be able to delete them one-by-one.

 

[dolfe67]

If you open the game and go to saves, hover over each one, click Delete, you will be able to delete them one-by-one.

This.

I'll clarify it's the "del" key on your keyboard. It's a basic functionality of the renpy framework.