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ufsmt

Newbie
Jul 9, 2017
54
88
If you need to keep explaining how the new income system works, it's not intuitive, even if it is simple.

My experience was, load up the game, see my saves are incompatible, delete them and start again. Annoying, especially since I was a long way in; but that happens with games in development.

Start a new game, see the new UI element on the left. Ignored the school and went straight to the lab to set it up, accidentally went to the lab office first, did paperwork, got a "square" on the new UI element. I thought "huh, there's a paperwork/income type skill now? cool. I'll just grind out a few points now and that'll make earning money easier". Six or so days later I had 2 points in "paperwork/income" or whatever it was called. I was confused when the skill went down a couple of days later. I was also confused when I couldn't find my current money, even after buying and making a couple of blue potions.

It then occurred to me that the "paperwork/income" skill thing was actually a representation of my money, but I still couldn't find the actual amount of money I had. Simplification is fine and all, but there's taking it too far when displaying something like money. A bit more playing and I began to think that it wasn't actually showing my money, but perhaps it was more like, quickly expiring "work points". I thought "no, that couldn't be it. How am I supposed save up for more expensive things? That's a horrible mechanic, they wouldn't do that, lets check the forums!". Forums confirmed that it is indeed quickly expiring work points, that you lose if you don't spend.

I read the explanations of what and why. I don't care how good or reasonable the reasons behind the change are--I'm playing the game after all, not developing it; that's just how it works from a players perspective--, I found it horribly unintuitive and can easily understand why people don't like it. It doesn't work like any mechanic I remember from any other game I've played. New mechanics aren't necessarily a bad thing, but why reinvent the wheel for such a simple thing? (need item, earn income, buy item). I ended up getting frustrated with the income mechanic because, from my perspective, it just doesn't work in any relatable way, and I just put the game down.

I went away and couldn't help put think about it, because a game I like is no longer fun because of an annoying mechanic. Even after I realised the secret of it all. You don't need to work any more. You just don't. You can't save up for future purchases, so working is a complete waste of time now, right up until you need to buy something. Then you need to press the right buttons to light up enough work points so you can immediately run off and buy the thing you need. And then you lose any extra points you earned. Like unspent game/company specific funbucks you use to purchase DLC stuff in AAA games, or unused time/data on pre-paid phone plans. You earn the thing, then it's taken away from you when you don't use it quickly enough.

It's still an annoying mechanic, it might be less grindy, but IMO it's more tedious. If you want to keep it like this instead of reverting to a more intuitive "earn money, save money, need item, buy item" mechanic that the game previously used, just double down and simplify things even more. Make the income system work like energy systems I've seen in a lot of other games. If you don't actually need to work any more, just make it so the player doesn't actually have to work any more, and just unlock income waypoints that add to your "income energy" (for want of a better term, that one is horrible).

Energy systems in other games limit the actions you can take per day (or week or whatever) and refresh when you rest. You unlock more Energy Points as you go through the game, through training or waypoints or whatever. Income Points wouldn't limit your actions, just your purchases. Go to school and work for the first time, BAM! first Income Point unlocked. Now the game assumes you actually go to work, just like you can assume you eat/drink/bathe etc. If you spend your single income point, it refreshes when you sleep. The game even already leads you to the second point. Talk to the girl -> offer to train her at the gym -> go to gym -> see this Frankie guy -> offer to train him for money -> BAM! second income point unlocked. Now when you sleep, your income points refresh back to two. Or maybe that was your third, you might have done paperwork in your lab office already and unlocked another Income Point; though I'd maybe save that one for when you get the girl working there instead. It's much the same as it is now, but you don't need to keep pressing buttons to earn the points when you need them, just to have them taken away from you if you don't quickly spend them. The game assumes the PC actually does their job and earns the money.

You still wouldn't be able to just buy all the things early on, you need to unlock the Income Points first--some of which need storyline progression--then you spend actual time buying the item. I imagine it also wouldn't be hard to gate some locations behind needing a certain number of Income Points unlocked. This lets the player spend less time clicking work buttons and more time on the story, and also lets the developer have some kind of idea where the player is at, by knowing what they'll need to do to unlock each of the Income Points, and how many Income Points each item costs.

So there you go, my thoughts on the new Income mechanic; roll it back or double down on simplifying things even more.
(congrats, after I lurked for ages, you got my first post on these forums).
 

Finsit

Harder Better Faster Cheater
Game Developer
Jun 2, 2017
1,167
1,403
If you need to keep explaining how the new income system works, it's not intuitive, even if it is simple.

My experience was, load up the game, see my saves are incompatible, delete them and start again. Annoying, especially since I was a long way in; but that happens with games in development.

Start a new game, see the new UI element on the left. Ignored the school and went straight to the lab to set it up, accidentally went to the lab office first, did paperwork, got a "square" on the new UI element. I thought "huh, there's a paperwork/income type skill now? cool. I'll just grind out a few points now and that'll make earning money easier". Six or so days later I had 2 points in "paperwork/income" or whatever it was called. I was confused when the skill went down a couple of days later. I was also confused when I couldn't find my current money, even after buying and making a couple of blue potions.

It then occurred to me that the "paperwork/income" skill thing was actually a representation of my money, but I still couldn't find the actual amount of money I had. Simplification is fine and all, but there's taking it too far when displaying something like money. A bit more playing and I began to think that it wasn't actually showing my money, but perhaps it was more like, quickly expiring "work points". I thought "no, that couldn't be it. How am I supposed save up for more expensive things? That's a horrible mechanic, they wouldn't do that, lets check the forums!". Forums confirmed that it is indeed quickly expiring work points, that you lose if you don't spend.

I read the explanations of what and why. I don't care how good or reasonable the reasons behind the change are--I'm playing the game after all, not developing it; that's just how it works from a players perspective--, I found it horribly unintuitive and can easily understand why people don't like it. It doesn't work like any mechanic I remember from any other game I've played. New mechanics aren't necessarily a bad thing, but why reinvent the wheel for such a simple thing? (need item, earn income, buy item). I ended up getting frustrated with the income mechanic because, from my perspective, it just doesn't work in any relatable way, and I just put the game down.

I went away and couldn't help put think about it, because a game I like is no longer fun because of an annoying mechanic. Even after I realised the secret of it all. You don't need to work any more. You just don't. You can't save up for future purchases, so working is a complete waste of time now, right up until you need to buy something. Then you need to press the right buttons to light up enough work points so you can immediately run off and buy the thing you need. And then you lose any extra points you earned. Like unspent game/company specific funbucks you use to purchase DLC stuff in AAA games, or unused time/data on pre-paid phone plans. You earn the thing, then it's taken away from you when you don't use it quickly enough.

It's still an annoying mechanic, it might be less grindy, but IMO it's more tedious. If you want to keep it like this instead of reverting to a more intuitive "earn money, save money, need item, buy item" mechanic that the game previously used, just double down and simplify things even more. Make the income system work like energy systems I've seen in a lot of other games. If you don't actually need to work any more, just make it so the player doesn't actually have to work any more, and just unlock income waypoints that add to your "income energy" (for want of a better term, that one is horrible).

Energy systems in other games limit the actions you can take per day (or week or whatever) and refresh when you rest. You unlock more Energy Points as you go through the game, through training or waypoints or whatever. Income Points wouldn't limit your actions, just your purchases. Go to school and work for the first time, BAM! first Income Point unlocked. Now the game assumes you actually go to work, just like you can assume you eat/drink/bathe etc. If you spend your single income point, it refreshes when you sleep. The game even already leads you to the second point. Talk to the girl -> offer to train her at the gym -> go to gym -> see this Frankie guy -> offer to train him for money -> BAM! second income point unlocked. Now when you sleep, your income points refresh back to two. Or maybe that was your third, you might have done paperwork in your lab office already and unlocked another Income Point; though I'd maybe save that one for when you get the girl working there instead. It's much the same as it is now, but you don't need to keep pressing buttons to earn the points when you need them, just to have them taken away from you if you don't quickly spend them. The game assumes the PC actually does their job and earns the money.

You still wouldn't be able to just buy all the things early on, you need to unlock the Income Points first--some of which need storyline progression--then you spend actual time buying the item. I imagine it also wouldn't be hard to gate some locations behind needing a certain number of Income Points unlocked. This lets the player spend less time clicking work buttons and more time on the story, and also lets the developer have some kind of idea where the player is at, by knowing what they'll need to do to unlock each of the Income Points, and how many Income Points each item costs.

So there you go, my thoughts on the new Income mechanic; roll it back or double down on simplifying things even more.
(congrats, after I lurked for ages, you got my first post on these forums).
You got me a little confused when you asked "why reinvent the wheel" just after saying that you read my explanations why.

And the reason why I will not switch to a simple self replenishing system is because it would opposed to the story we are telling.
Currently the system is self-replenishing but with decay (sometime brutal). And that decay will be addressed (explained) and used as occasions for storytelling as the next update will show you.

I understand you suggestion, but I don't have the same goal as you do, so I'll paraphrase you. I'm developing the game after all, not playing it.

My goal is to tell a story with the game mechanic too. It is not only a matter pure algorithmic efficiency.
The base income needs to be an inconvenience for the player to mimic the feeling of the MC.
So when making the decisions of drugging Kara and making a girl strip come it then also mimic how the MC's operation is starting to pay by making his life easier.

You wouldn't get that kind of effect without the adversity the income system brings.
Because currently it is kind of the main antagonist. That is the only thing the MC fights against.

I'm not against flat increases of the income at some point, that's sort of what the stripclub is already. But given how powerful the set of serums is I don't consider anything the MC did with it to gain income as permanent.
The only case it could fit would be the ending #1. There the MD did secure himself some income.



So for me the issue will not be solved by working on the principle but by using it for interactions and through balancing changes.
 

ufsmt

Newbie
Jul 9, 2017
54
88
I want to preface this with; I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm trying to give actual feedback to something that is clearly an issue for many people.

"Income system sucks, game is shit now" is not useful feedback. To anyone who doesn't like the income system, please try and put your thought and reasoning into something useful. A one line dismissive post will just get dismissed. Better feedback might not lead to any major changes to the current income system, but it might help shape it into something that you (and I) find more usable than the current implementation.
---

You got me a little confused when you asked "why reinvent the wheel" just after saying that you read my explanations why.
The main thing I got from your explanations was;

Previously we had no idea of what kind of money the player could be expected to have at any given point of the game. So we could not use it without risking to lock the player into a grind to get money.

The income system is there to make sure to allow us to control the money the player can have (not have, can have).
and

At the start of the game the MC lost the work of his life, feel from grace and had to go teach in a pretty mediocre university.
His position as a teacher is precarious and Kara being the hard-ass (ironically) that doesn't hesitate to not pay the MC a dime if he doesn't teach even just for one day.
I understood that as to mean that you wanted:
Knowledge of what the players potential income was, at any point in the game.
Control over the players maximum current purchasing power.
Punishment or obstacles for the player if they don't go to work, (and perhaps an in-game reason to get Dean Kara under your control, beyond "she's hot, I want her").

All of which could be done with the old income system, or without abstracting the income system to such a large degree. That's where my thought process was coming from at least.


And the reason why I will not switch to a simple self replenishing system is because it would opposed to the story we are telling.
Currently the system is self-replenishing but with decay (sometime brutal). And that decay will be addressed (explained) and used as occasions for storytelling as the next update will show you.

I understand you suggestion, but I don't have the same goal as you do, so I'll paraphrase you. I'm developing the game after all, not playing it.

My goal is to tell a story with the game mechanic too. It is not only a matter pure algorithmic efficiency.
The base income needs to be an inconvenience for the player to mimic the feeling of the MC.
So when making the decisions of drugging Kara and making a girl strip come it then also mimic how the MC's operation is starting to pay by making his life easier.

You wouldn't get that kind of effect without the adversity the income system brings.
Because currently it is kind of the main antagonist. That is the only thing the MC fights against.
I think that when it comes to the income side of the game, you're correct in that you don't have the same goals as I do. I was happy with it being a very minor speedbump to step over now and then, and you clearly want it to be a significant part of the gameplay. My comment about how I'm playing the game, not developing it wasn't meant to be antagonistic (if it came across like that). It was a (poor) attempt to highlight how developers and designers can sometimes be "too close" to the guts of the game to see issues or problems or just how players approach or see things. Kind of how you can write a paragraph, proof-read it a dozen times and think it's great. Then someone else reads over it and points out a bunch of spelling errors, too many comma's and several poorly worded sentences. The paragraph might be good, it just needs some extra work.

For many people, your intent, and reasoning for the revised income system doesn't come across at all in the game. It comes across as arbitrary, unreasonable and confusing. Hopefully it just needs some extra work.
---

Let me try and get some thoughts across.

The previous income system was kind of just 'there'. It was never really an inconvenience or a block to gameplay. I need more money, I just held down ctrl and click click click. 30 seconds later I had the money I needed. Not an issue for me because I wasn't playing for "game systems", I was playing for "story". One update later and all of a sudden the income is there, in your face, cockblocking you from the story with a game system that was unclear and unusual. It was a slap to the face, and it got in the way of the game that I HAD been playing for the story. It felt like a hard change to the type of game this is, and even knowing that it's the type of thing that can happen with games in development, it still felt like a bitter pill to swallow.

I now gain income, then it's removed for no discernible reason. Why bother working, if you don't get anything to show for it. It felt obtuse and arbitrary, and had NO useful feedback to explain itself. Nothing like "you skipped work so I'm docking your pay, so now you need to pay this weeks living expenses out of your savings". I don't resent Dean Kara for docking my pay because she's not the one responsible, she has nothing to do with it. It's currently all on the income system. I don't dose Kara to get her under my control so I can work less and earn more. I do it because I want to add another hottie to my harem.

With the current income system, I don't bother working. I don't need to, there's no punishment or malus for skipping work. With the old income system, the punishment was "your savings don't go up", and the reward was "your savings go up". Now it feels like I'm punished for actually going to work, because there's nothing to show for it. And skipping work means nothing. Now this might not be "how it actually works", but it's "how it actually feels".

With the current income system, I didn't even start the game proper until I had maxed out my stockpile of magic science drugs. Only after that, only after tediously grinding out all of that, did I bother to even start talking to the girls, just to get the income system out of the way. Previously it felt more organic, since working even once now and then would add to my savings. I could buy the thing I needed out of my savings, or maybe work a couple of days holding ctrl down to skip dialogue, and move on. Now I don't bother, because unless I actually need something to progress, working just to work is irrelevant and doesn't benefit you at all, so I don't work. I imagine that if I need to restart for some reason in the future, I'll probably just cheat to max out my magic science drugs to speed things up for myself and skip some tedium.

I never cheated, or even felt the need to cheat, with the old income system. With the new system, one of the first things I did was look up how, just so I could avoid the system and get back to the game I wanted to play. I think anyone simply dismissing the complaints (even the useless one liners) as "you're just dumb" or "you're salty you can't cheat now" is potentially sweeping a real problem under the rug. And the sheer amount of discussion/complaints/explanations/etc on the new income system tells me that there is a problem somewhere.
---

If you only take one thing from this post, then make it this. If you want to make the income system a major part of the game, the "main antagonist" if you will, then you NEED to implement more feedback about it into the game. Actual in-game, in-universe feedback will help a ton, not just with understanding the system, but in getting the system to work with both the rest of the game and the players.

If I skip work, don't just remove a couple of income points, have Dean Kara message you to tell you exactly why you didn't get paid. "You skipped work you lazy fuck, I'm docking your pay 'cause I'm a hard-arse bitch and this is a crappy college". Throw in something about living expenses and how money is tight, and how hard it is get any kind savings on your income to really set the scene. Don't want the players having too much money? Add in something like "I need to stay under the radar because my old employers are paranoid fucks who keep an eye on ex-employees, because something something corporate secrets. If I earn too much money, they'll notice and come after me". Make it part of the game-world, and not just part of the game-system.

Hell, even a short, 3 or 4 picture tutorial explaining the thing would help, as much as tutorials can take you out of the game world.

I hope the wall of text above helps you understand where at least one player is coming from, with their dislike of the new income system.
---

Finally, just to move away from all of this Income System Drama.

When I say I was really enjoying this game for the story, I mean it. It's got some of the best BDSM relationships and interactions I've read in any game. Despite the fact that the MC is doing really shady shit like using mind and body altering drugs, the interactions between him and his subs is still some of the most believable and respectful I've seen. I found this especially apparent with Harley; the MC never pushes her too far, makes sure she's OK, and playtime only truly starts when she puts on the collar. The game doesn't show it (or need to show it), but I can imagine they follow up with aftercare after each session. It's mostly the same thing with the other girls, just with different needs for each of them.

You could probably delete all of the magic science drugs from the game (please don't do that) and change little else, and you'd still have a solid game with an enjoyable story.
 

Finsit

Harder Better Faster Cheater
Game Developer
Jun 2, 2017
1,167
1,403
I want to preface this with; I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm trying to give actual feedback to something that is clearly an issue for many people.

"Income system sucks, game is shit now" is not useful feedback. To anyone who doesn't like the income system, please try and put your thought and reasoning into something useful. A one line dismissive post will just get dismissed. Better feedback might not lead to any major changes to the current income system, but it might help shape it into something that you (and I) find more usable than the current implementation.
Hey, you can be as argumentative as you like, won't bother me.

Any type of feedback has its use. A simple one line feedback use resides in that it is short very black and white and thus cheaper to make to the player, so we get more of them. Its strength more quantity than quality.
But yeah in general unless something goes wrong they are confirmation more than they inform us of anything.

For example with the income system I expected the negativity, that was the point when we chose not to explain for the time being.
I'll also point that we made a poll for patrons to actively gather feedback about the income system.
I understood that as to mean that you wanted:
Knowledge of what the players potential income was, at any point in the game.
Control over the players maximum current purchasing power.
Punishment or obstacles for the player if they don't go to work, (and perhaps an in-game reason to get Dean Kara under your control, beyond "she's hot, I want her").

All of which could be done with the old income system, or without abstracting the income system to such a large degree. That's where my thought process was coming from at least.
I disagree that keeping the money stockpiling system could be done in a satisfactory manner.


What the abstraction from the income system also allowed is removing the stupid pricing. More often than not, the money in eroge are way too flawed and doesn't control the cash flow, so we end with ridiculous prices like $50 for a coffee or things like that. Some times the game tone is light enough for the creator to make jokes about it.
So while we are not going for a tone too serious, for me it was a gameplay dissonance to put jacked-up prices on everything needed a little late into the game.

So I abstracted the income. I'll also point out that I don't consider the scale as linear. Since it is harder to keep the income maxed at 5, this level represents the "money is not an issue" income.

We already have the greatest difficulties when we add gates to the sex events. Now we often end up eyeballing it, go for the same gates as other events give or take, or queue it after an other event. And the scale there is around the 100 max.
I think that when it comes to the income side of the game, you're correct in that you don't have the same goals as I do. I was happy with it being a very minor speedbump to step over now and then, and you clearly want it to be a significant part of the gameplay. My comment about how I'm playing the game, not developing it wasn't meant to be antagonistic (if it came across like that). It was a (poor) attempt to highlight how developers and designers can sometimes be "too close" to the guts of the game to see issues or problems or just how players approach or see things. Kind of how you can write a paragraph, proof-read it a dozen times and think it's great. Then someone else reads over it and points out a bunch of spelling errors, too many comma's and several poorly worded sentences. The paragraph might be good, it just needs some extra work.

For many people, your intent, and reasoning for the revised income system doesn't come across at all in the game. It comes across as arbitrary, unreasonable and confusing. Hopefully it just needs some extra work.
First don't worry, I tend to always consider debating as a combat sport. But I still enjoy it nonetheless, that is the fun part.

I get what you mean, but on the income system case it wasn't a lack of overview. For us the current state was always a draft of the feature. We never intended it to stay that way.

The design process behind a feature like that takes at least 3 month. And it is not long because I only think about it scarcely, no, every time my brain has some idle time, like during commuting, lunch break, in the workshop, as well as during my free time.
Think about it, how much time it takes to "normal" people to think about and live their social life, then remove the time it takes to eat. I don't do that. And that frees up a lot of time to think.

That is why I appear dismissive about many feedback and suggestions, because I can be sure with a high degree of certainty that nobody put as much time thinking about the point than me.
But that doesn't mean it is useless though. It still helps me build a more solid basis for reflection. And at least it reminds me to think more about it.
Let me try and get some thoughts across.

The previous income system was kind of just 'there'. It was never really an inconvenience or a block to gameplay. I need more money, I just held down ctrl and click click click. 30 seconds later I had the money I needed. Not an issue for me because I wasn't playing for "game systems", I was playing for "story". One update later and all of a sudden the income is there, in your face, cockblocking you from the story with a game system that was unclear and unusual. It was a slap to the face, and it got in the way of the game that I HAD been playing for the story. It felt like a hard change to the type of game this is, and even knowing that it's the type of thing that can happen with games in development, it still felt like a bitter pill to swallow.

I now gain income, then it's removed for no discernible reason. Why bother working, if you don't get anything to show for it. It felt obtuse and arbitrary, and had NO useful feedback to explain itself. Nothing like "you skipped work so I'm docking your pay, so now you need to pay this weeks living expenses out of your savings". I don't resent Dean Kara for docking my pay because she's not the one responsible, she has nothing to do with it. It's currently all on the income system. I don't dose Kara to get her under my control so I can work less and earn more. I do it because I want to add another hottie to my harem.

With the current income system, I don't bother working. I don't need to, there's no punishment or malus for skipping work. With the old income system, the punishment was "your savings don't go up", and the reward was "your savings go up". Now it feels like I'm punished for actually going to work, because there's nothing to show for it. And skipping work means nothing. Now this might not be "how it actually works", but it's "how it actually feels".
I have been thinking about adding a "easy mode" since I was implementing the surprising amount of toys needed for the sex scenes.
And you can bet implementing them was easily as tedious for me as it is for you to play. I certainly didn't do it for fun.

But when you said : I wasn't playing for "game systems", I was playing for "story", I instantly thought "story mode" would be a great name for it. Because it is not offensive to chose since you are not choosing the facility, you just want the story.

And that may be the most solid foundation to build design on I've got. You know, you cannot have complex thought process without words to work with, and learning more words is directly related to a better thinking.
You can be sure that just for that sentence, your contribution was worth it.

But I really like the idea of the MC not caring about money, after all he kind of injected himself a serum that made him immortal, he is old, he had time to realize that money was but a mean to his goal, the work of his life was sacked. All the motivation he has that lead to the events in the game work with the approach you have on the income system.
So yeah, I'm kind of pleased.
If you only take one thing from this post, then make it this. If you want to make the income system a major part of the game, the "main antagonist" if you will, then you NEED to implement more feedback about it into the game. Actual in-game, in-universe feedback will help a ton, not just with understanding the system, but in getting the system to work with both the rest of the game and the players.

If I skip work, don't just remove a couple of income points, have Dean Kara message you to tell you exactly why you didn't get paid. "You skipped work you lazy fuck, I'm docking your pay 'cause I'm a hard-arse bitch and this is a crappy college". Throw in something about living expenses and how money is tight, and how hard it is get any kind savings on your income to really set the scene. Don't want the players having too much money? Add in something like "I need to stay under the radar because my old employers are paranoid fucks who keep an eye on ex-employees, because something something corporate secrets. If I earn too much money, they'll notice and come after me". Make it part of the game-world, and not just part of the game-system.

Hell, even a short, 3 or 4 picture tutorial explaining the thing would help, as much as tutorials can take you out of the game world.

I hope the wall of text above helps you understand where at least one player is coming from, with their dislike of the new income system.
Don't worry, as I said, we already prepared that on the next update.

And we will keep adding that kind of filling/fluff in the game as we keep bumping into occasion to add some. And suggestion about those will be very received with much interest.
Finally, just to move away from all of this Income System Drama.

When I say I was really enjoying this game for the story, I mean it. It's got some of the best BDSM relationships and interactions I've read in any game. Despite the fact that the MC is doing really shady shit like using mind and body altering drugs, the interactions between him and his subs is still some of the most believable and respectful I've seen. I found this especially apparent with Harley; the MC never pushes her too far, makes sure she's OK, and playtime only truly starts when she puts on the collar. The game doesn't show it (or need to show it), but I can imagine they follow up with aftercare after each session. It's mostly the same thing with the other girls, just with different needs for each of them.

You could probably delete all of the magic science drugs from the game (please don't do that) and change little else, and you'd still have a solid game with an enjoyable story.
You know I have been trying to push Jan to make more after-scenes images, be it afterglow or goodbye, at least finish the scenes with a more mirroring image of the start, you know adding some closure.

And what you said here helps me a lot in that endeavor. That Jan person a stubborn beast.

But yeah, character development as well as relationship is something we put much care into.
Last couple of days we had some lengthy discussions about the upcoming Harley's last stage stripclub scene. And personally I'm not done with it, Jan seem more set on how it will plays.
I still think making it a non-public event would add a little more flavor to it.






Damn I finally made that reply. Took me several attempts. I pretty much started minutes after you posted it.



Whats the point of giving feedback. You've clearly decided how you want the game to be and ignore everyone else.
What's the point of responding to any structures feedback ? You clearly decided to ignore them.
 

RickTree

New Member
Dec 28, 2018
9
4
I am stuck after I put Kara in the strip club and kept spamming her in the strip club to increase her sluttiness. I am not able to meet up with her anymore, how do I continue her path? I can't seem to meet up with her or call her or have her come to the house? All I can do is make her go to the strip club
 

EddyVanRip

New Member
Sep 25, 2019
9
3
Hi I got a problem, I recently update the dd 0.41.3 native game to his version 0.41.4 and when I train Harley and she send me messages it pops out an error, and also with the some other girls, not necessarily when they send me a text just by open it.

I´m at the point when all the girls are at the maximum, and I'm just finishing Harley training, and i got unlocked the 1st ending when you build the machine.

Code:
I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.

While loading <ScaledImage u'selfies/ha self t1 01.png' (None, None)>:
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 723, in <module>
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 736, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 736, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 737, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 745, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 747, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 758, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 759, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 766, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 770, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 777, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 780, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 786, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 790, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 791, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 853, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 853, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 854, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 859, in execute
  File "game/02_class_defines.rpy", line 516, in thumbnail
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 836, in ProportionalScale
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 849, in get_size
  File "game/01_custom_display.rpy", line 22, in load
AttributeError: 'ScaledImage' object has no attribute 'matrixcolor'

-- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------

Full traceback:
  File "home.rpyc", line 2, in script call
  File "screens.rpyc", line 678, in script call
  File "screens.rpyc", line 691, in script call
  File "harley_selfies.rpyc", line 307, in script call
  File "screens.rpyc", line 723, in script
  File "C:\Users\Equipo Rocacero\Downloads\MOH\DDGame-0.41.3-native\renpy\ast.py", line 900, in execute
    renpy.python.py_exec_bytecode(self.code.bytecode, self.hide, store=self.store)
  File "C:\Users\Equipo Rocacero\Downloads\MOH\DDGame-0.41.3-native\renpy\python.py", line 1930, in py_exec_bytecode
    exec bytecode in globals, locals
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 723, in <module>
  File "C:\Users\Equipo Rocacero\Downloads\MOH\DDGame-0.41.3-native\renpy\exports.py", line 1457, in pause
    rv = renpy.ui.interact(mouse='pause', type='pause', roll_forward=roll_forward)
  File "C:\Users\Equipo Rocacero\Downloads\MOH\DDGame-0.41.3-native\renpy\ui.py", line 289, in interact
    rv = renpy.game.interface.interact(roll_forward=roll_forward, **kwargs)
  File "C:\Users\Equipo Rocacero\Downloads\MOH\DDGame-0.41.3-native\renpy\display\core.py", line 2690, in interact
    repeat, rv = self.interact_core(preloads=preloads, trans_pause=trans_pause, **kwargs)
  File "C:\Users\Equipo Rocacero\Downloads\MOH\DDGame-0.41.3-native\renpy\display\core.py", line 3074, in interact_core
    root_widget.visit_all(lambda i : i.per_interact())
  File "C:\Users\Equipo Rocacero\Downloads\MOH\DDGame-0.41.3-native\renpy\display\core.py", line 534, in visit_all
    d.visit_all(callback, seen)
  File "C:\Users\Equipo Rocacero\Downloads\MOH\DDGame-0.41.3-native\renpy\display\core.py", line 534, in visit_all
    d.visit_all(callback, seen)
  File "C:\Users\Equipo Rocacero\Downloads\MOH\DDGame-0.41.3-native\renpy\display\core.py", line 534, in visit_all
    d.visit_all(callback, seen)
  File "C:\Users\Equipo Rocacero\Downloads\MOH\DDGame-0.41.3-native\renpy\display\screen.py", line 424, in visit_all
    callback(self)
  File "C:\Users\Equipo Rocacero\Downloads\MOH\DDGame-0.41.3-native\renpy\display\core.py", line 3074, in <lambda>
    root_widget.visit_all(lambda i : i.per_interact())
  File "C:\Users\Equipo Rocacero\Downloads\MOH\DDGame-0.41.3-native\renpy\display\screen.py", line 434, in per_interact
    self.update()
  File "C:\Users\Equipo Rocacero\Downloads\MOH\DDGame-0.41.3-native\renpy\display\screen.py", line 619, in update
    self.screen.function(**self.scope)
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 736, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 736, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 737, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 745, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 747, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 758, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 759, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 766, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 770, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 777, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 780, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 786, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 790, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 791, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 853, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 853, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 854, in execute
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 859, in execute
  File "<screen language>", line 859, in <module>
  File "game/02_class_defines.rpy", line 516, in thumbnail
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 836, in ProportionalScale
  File "game/screens.rpy", line 849, in get_size
  File "C:\Users\Equipo Rocacero\Downloads\MOH\DDGame-0.41.3-native\renpy\display\im.py", line 266, in get
    surf = image.load()
  File "game/01_custom_display.rpy", line 22, in load
AttributeError: 'ScaledImage' object has no attribute 'matrixcolor'

Windows-8-6.2.9200
Ren'Py 7.2.2.491
Deviant Discoveries 0.41.4
Wed Oct 16 08:59:36 2019
 

Finsit

Harder Better Faster Cheater
Game Developer
Jun 2, 2017
1,167
1,403
Hi I got a problem, I recently update the dd 0.41.3 native game to his version 0.41.4 and when I train Harley and she send me messages it pops out an error, and also with the some other girls, not necessarily when they send me a text just by open it.

I´m at the point when all the girls are at the maximum, and I'm just finishing Harley training, and i got unlocked the 1st ending when you build the machine.
I tried to cover most of the possibilities, it seem it was not enough.

It is a bug due to the implementation of the image packs. Your saves are corrupted.
But you can purge the bugged messages and continue to use it if you want.


Load a save right before getting that message from Harley then execute that command in the console :
message = ThreadBox()
If you don't have the console activated you can activate it in the "Preferences" menu.


The new messages should, if not then send me both a save before the command and one after the command and after receiving the messages from Harley.

I am stuck after I put Kara in the strip club and kept spamming her in the strip club to increase her sluttiness. I am not able to meet up with her anymore, how do I continue her path? I can't seem to meet up with her or call her or have her come to the house? All I can do is make her go to the strip club
Could you send me your save. I'll look into it.
 

EddyVanRip

New Member
Sep 25, 2019
9
3
I tried to cover most of the possibilities, it seem it was not enough.

It is a bug due to the implementation of the image packs. Your saves are corrupted.
But you can purge the bugged messages and continue to use it if you want.


Load a save right before getting that message from Harley then execute that command in the console :
message = ThreadBox()
If you don't have the console activated you can activate it in the "Preferences" menu.


The new messages should, if not then send me both a save before the command and one after the command and after receiving the messages from Harley.


Could you send me your save. I'll look into it.

Ok ill send you my files.

1 is with the bug & not open console
2 is with the imput code in the console

When i put the code the inbox won't open anymore, You think if i start a new game (wich i had no problem doing it, because is a great game) this bug wont show anymore?

Also will you be so kind to tell me wich changes were made to version xx.3 to xx.4?
 

Finsit

Harder Better Faster Cheater
Game Developer
Jun 2, 2017
1,167
1,403
Ok ill send you my files.

1 is with the bug & not open console
2 is with the imput code in the console

When i put the code the inbox won't open anymore, You think if i start a new game (wich i had no problem doing it, because is a great game) this bug wont show anymore?

Also will you be so kind to tell me wich changes were made to version xx.3 to xx.4?
The command I sent you is meant to wipe all the SMS received that way you don't have old messages that will make the game crash and can read any new received new one.



As I said I tried to prevent that case of old messages bugging but given my code base it was almost inevitable that I would not achieve to prevent them all.

I'll probably not fix what is causing your issue as your case should not come ever again since it is due to a save made at a specific point.
But if more of you are affected by this bug, I'll try to fix is though.


As for the change in the 0.41.4 well it is written in the changelog located next to the game executable, so :
Code:
v0.41.4
    Fixed the flash effect related bugs
 

mazqaz

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2018
1,318
2,214
They should really make a walkthrough.That game is too dificult otherwise.
There's a hint for every locked choice when you hover over it, its a vn all you have to do is press "space" and just talk with the 6 total characters everytime your lost
 

RickTree

New Member
Dec 28, 2018
9
4
I tried to cover most of the possibilities, it seem it was not enough.

It is a bug due to the implementation of the image packs. Your saves are corrupted.
But you can purge the bugged messages and continue to use it if you want.


Load a save right before getting that message from Harley then execute that command in the console :
message = ThreadBox()
If you don't have the console activated you can activate it in the "Preferences" menu.


The new messages should, if not then send me both a save before the command and one after the command and after receiving the messages from Harley.


Could you send me your save. I'll look into it.
Hello attach is my save to see if you could figure out if I'm doing something wrong or if I broke my file
 
4.10 star(s) 59 Votes