Do you think that the "market" of indie porn game is saturated?

[khumak]

Those pulling in 15k are very rare. No idea where you got most from. 1k is about average.

Earning 2k on Patreon doesn't mean they get 2k. Patreon takes a cut of that. People also have bills, food, assets to buy and other shit to pay out for.

These are also amateur devs that don't work on contracts. These games are something they have a passion for even if it's just a hobby most of the time. Hiring others is a risk.

The chance of you making 15k making a game is very slim but making it in a normal job would take a specialisation and years to get to that stage.

Most of these devs also have other jobs and families. They don't take it too seriously.

Most devs probably also realize they're not going to win the Patreon lottery and become the next Dark Cookie (Summertime Saga). Sure you can make good money if you end up with a really popular game that people support. You could also end up with a game that makes less than $1000 a month or something Patreon's censors decide violates their rules, in which case you get $0. So I don't think we've even scratched the surface of what the market could sustain if there was a more viable place to actually publish your work and an easy way for people to find it without worrying about crawling through malware infested porn sites looking for it.

I think most of the devs who could make a game that was good enough to justify $10k+ per month on Patreon by themselves probably already have a full time job where they make that much or more. Most of them would take a big pay cut trying to shift to full time adult game development. Being your own boss would be a nice upside but I would bet that it's usually a pay cut. I suspect most people do it as a hobby or a side job, not a full time job.

 

[215303j]

So I don't think we've even scratched the surface of what the market could sustain if there was a more viable place to actually publish your work and an easy way for people to find it without worrying about crawling through malware infested porn sites looking for it.

Probably. I mean, look at the porn video industry. There is no real reason why games should not be just as big.
I think the Patreon model of supporting a creator in the hope of periodical updates is not that good a model for the "bigger" ventures.
On the other hand, the few times where a AAA company tried to make a porn game, they mostly failed miserably...

I think most of the devs who could make a game that was good enough to justify $10k+ per month on Patreon by themselves probably already have a full time job where they make that much or more. Most of them would take a big pay cut trying to shift to full time adult game development. Being your own boss would be a nice upside but I would bet that it's usually a pay cut. I suspect most people do it as a hobby or a side job, not a full time job.

That's probably bullshit.
First of all, there are plenty of poor / underpaid / undiscovered writers or artists out there.
In fact, I think very, very few writers or artists around the world make $10k+ per month.
On the other hand, a senior accountant who makes $10k+ per month would likely be pretty bad at making porn games.

And, whether $10k+ per month is actually a lot of money depends entirely on your perspective: e.g. your current job, tax regimes, living standard in your country etc. In several countries $500 a month is a decent salary, so if someone from such a country makes $1000 on Patreon he's not doing so badly.

 

[Deleted member 1952336]

Every online industry is oversaturated because of global competition.

It's the malthusian trap. Population naturally expands until mass starvation, then levels off with most of the population always in a state of starving to death or dead. Starvation is all the devs who don't make it.

Most Devs will never earn enough money to work full time on their games, and only working part time is usually not enough to ever get good enough at writing and art to make what would be considered a "good" game worthy of support, even after many years of practice.

Most of the devs in the dev forum have been working on their game, or games for years and are still not earning enough to go full time.

Personally I've been working nearly three years full time, living off mostly savings, on my games, improving in writing, art, and coding but not every one is fortunate to be able to dedicate that much time towards practice and learning. Even I won't be able to go on forever if I can't produce a "good" game.

So I'd say, that yes most of the games are not "good" but most people will never be able to create good games, and will only fill the caverns of F95 with the carcasses of their abandoned, dead, and lack luster games.

But it's the same in every industry, youtube, twitch, stock/crypto trading, drop shipping, etc. Most people are going to fail. Most organisms starve to death. It's just reality.

 

[CurvyLinesEverywhere]

Every online industry is oversaturated because of global competition.

It's the malthusian trap. Population naturally expands until mass starvation, then levels off with most of the population always in a state of starving to death or dead. Starvation is all the devs who don't make it.

Most Devs will never earn enough money to work full time on their games, and only working part time is usually not enough to ever get good enough at writing and art to make what would be considered a "good" game worthy of support, even after many years of practice.

Most of the devs in the dev forum have been working on their game, or games for years and are still not earning enough to go full time.

Personally I've been working nearly three years full time, living off mostly savings, on my games, improving in writing, art, and coding but not every one is fortunate to be able to dedicate that much time towards practice and learning. Even I won't be able to go on forever if I can't produce a "good" game.

So I'd say, that yes most of the games are not "good" but most people will never be able to create good games, and will only fill the caverns of F95 with the carcasses of their abandoned, dead, and lack luster games.

But it's the same in every industry, youtube, twitch, stock/crypto trading, drop shipping, etc. Most people are going to fail. Most organisms starve to death. It's just reality.

I hear you. But I've also heard the opposite. For example,

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that other VNs are doing worse than his despite having (in his opinion) better art and writing. He suggests that lack of updates / poor exposure / lack of distribution are probably some of the reasons behind their lack of success. Making a game fast and putting it on as many platforms as possible seem to be the keys to success in the Patreon market.

Steam is a different beast, but there, your game needs to be complete and "polished" before you even upload it. (I think "polish" in this case means the art term "surface--" that is, each individual image needs to "look polished," I.E. needs to look a bit better than the average Daz Studio render. Treasure of Nadia, Being a DIK, Fresh Women, College Kings, they all have a relatively high level of visual quality. This level of quality may also contribute to their rising to the top of most lists. But their developers usually also have another advantage over the rest of the market. I'm talking about the ultimate indie game dev superpower-- Starting In The Past. (Regardless of how saturated or unsaturated the market may be right now, we can all agree that it was less saturated five years ago.)

But for people making a middle-of-the-road AVN? Consistent releases, wide demo releases, and timed members-only exclusivity are apparently the only thing that matters.

I'd like to add just one other footnote. One advantage the AVN industry as a whole has over other mediums of entertainment (excluding porn) is that end-users are always looking for new content. It's what is known as a "polyamorous" user base-- meaning that players tend to play multiple different games in the genre rather than focusing on one major release or developer at a time. People play these things like they're eating potato chips, and their favorite devs are only putting out a couple of hours of content per month, so there's lots of room in a player's library for "also-rans" that would be redundant in most AAA genres.