HTML Dune – Breeding a Dynasty [v0.2.1] [lmno]

[KingsRaiden]

Since you brought this up - I've been meaning to question the nerds here about this thing sooner or later. And now is as good a time as any.
So since only the KH, a male, can access both the male and female memories for whatever reason, whereas females can only access the female ones - How come Alia has the memory of her male ancestors? Or at least one of them, the Baron? That shouldn't be possible and it's never explained. Did Frank Herbert make a mistake there or did I miss or misunderstand something?

Alia was an aberration, to put it bluntly, even the Rev Mother noted that when Alia came on the Emperor's ship before the final attack by Paul and the Fremen. Although Paul said he was there, and Alia could access memories, part of it was control which I don't recall Alia having much of, and Paul seemed to slip into and out of his powers at times - whether plot armor or what, not sure. I don't recall much after Children but Alia also seemed unstable mentally up to that point, so while she might have access to male memories, at least the Baron, it might have driven her mad.

Considering that Alia was meant to be a breach to bring about the KH with Feyd, and Paul wasn't the KH, they were both one step removed, that could also be part of why she could do what she could.

 

[UnwrappedGodiva]

The Golden Path makes total sense, but since one of you said you didn't even really finish reading God Emperor, it is no wonder you might not understand fully as this is the book where it's all been explained in detail.

Many parallels have been drawn between the Dune books (especially the God Emperor of Dune) and the Foundation trilogy written more than 20 years earlier by Isaac Asimov. In both book series there is an individual who can use his extended knowledge of psychohistory (Hari Seldon, Foundation) or his ancestral memories and prescience (Leto II, Dune) to see that humanity is heading towards annihilation, and see that there is only one very narrow path to avoid that. Furthermore, that path is tortuous and has to go through several "Seldon crises" (Foundation) or intentional tyranny and exodus (Dune) in order to succeed. The details of the path cannot be revealed all at once, because otherwise humanity would try to avoid these crises and ruin the plan. More recently, the MCU has also used similar tricks with Doctor Strange seeing only one way to beat Thanos, without revealing that path until its climax in Avengers: Endgame.

I understand what the Golden Path is/does. I just don't understand/disagree with the assumptions that lead to the Golden Path. I find it all very contradictive. Humanity requiring a precise path forward in order to survive in the long term... questionable. Prescience leading to stagnation for an individual makes sense, but prescience of an individual leading to stagnation for the whole species? If Leto's prescience really is so detrimental and he knows it, why doesn't he kill himself sooner? Why the thousands of years of oppression? His rationale there is to instill a strong desire in humanity to be free. But I find that too to be questionable.

Sometimes the protagonist has to make difficult choices. They may see that the best path requires some sacrifices in order to minimize the total losses. Some short-term crises may be required in order to avoid greater losses in the long term. Coming back to the MCU comparison, it is unlikely that the outcome would have been the same if Tony Stark had known about the plan before the final battle. In Dune, Leto II understands that the only way to save humanity is to go through a personal transformation and then hundreds of years of difficult times, with a galactic empire that is designed to eventually self-destruct. Killing himself earlier may not have brought humanity to the same path and could have allowed other individuals to eventually reach a similar level of prescience but without noble intentions, which would have resulted in the annihilation that he was trying to avoid.

If prescience is so bad, why does it require prescience to steer humanity through the narrow path that leads to survival?
I understand that Frank Herbert had a strong distaste of authority, self-abandonment and charismatic leaders. If DUNE had be be distilled down to a single message, it would have to be: "Beware of heroes!" (Uttered verbatim in the first book. ) Yet in the end, it takes the worst tyrant imaginable in order to save humanity from itself. I assume the contradiction is intentional and intended to be profound or something... but I think he's just wrong.

I do not think that the message is only "beware of heroes". Dune (like Foundation) warns about charismatic leaders, religious fanatics, blind submission to authority, etc. We should keep in mind that these book series were written in the post-WW2 and Cold War period. That probably explains some of the political and philosophical messages. I think that both Dune and Foundation are saying that science and cold reasoning will save humanity from self-destruction. It may not matter that much if that golden path is pushed by a single individual or not.

Since you brought this up - I've been meaning to question the nerds here about this thing sooner or later. And now is as good a time as any.
So since only the KH, a male, can access both the male and female memories for whatever reason, whereas females can only access the female ones - How come Alia has the memory of her male ancestors? Or at least one of them, the Baron? That shouldn't be possible and it's never explained. Did Frank Herbert make a mistake there or did I miss or misunderstand something?

The generally accepted answer is that the pre-borns such as Alia have access to all of their ancestral memories because they were awakened before their own personality was fully formed. The twins have the same experience later, so Alia is not unique. The Bene Gesserit knew about that risk and tried to avoid the Abomination by forbidding pregnant mothers from drinking the water of life. Alia was unstable and eventually succumbed to the possession because Jessica and Paul did not support her (so to a large extent this was Paul's failure). Leto II and Ghanima were able to avoid the same fate because they got better support and they saw what was happening to Alia.

Of course one can wonder why the Bene Gesserit spent hundreds of years trying to create the Kwisatz Haderach with their careful breeding plans instead of creating a few pre-borns and having some kind of selection process to get rid of the failures. But then, most of the plot of the Dune books would have disappeared.

 

[lmno]

While not all AI software is created equal, are you guys using Dall-E or equivalent?

• Side note: The only reason I ask is due to this poll, as it seems like significant improvements were made regarding fingers and body composition.

We are using Stable Diffusion run locally on our machines as this allows greater control of what we can have/show at the expense of certain levels of detail and refinement. We manually go through each image to make edits and modifications using PhotoShop too.

 

[magistrate]

what would you like to see *prioritised* for the next major update?

Replacing the ai slop with real art.

 

[Zorlond]

Replacing the ai slop with real art.

Why are you in this topic?

 

[KingsRaiden]

I do not think that the message is only "beware of heroes". Dune (like Foundation) warns about charismatic leaders, religious fanatics, blind submission to authority, etc.

I though that's what Messiah was supposed to be, a warning of what charismatic leaders could, and would do, if given unchecked power. With Dune we see the rise of Muad'Dib as leader and prophet of the Fremen, in Messiah he and the Fremen take over rather bloodily all in Muad'Dib's name.

 

[lmno]

Replacing the ai slop with real art.

Can you draw? If so, join us.

 

[reynold.biplane]

I though that's what Messiah was supposed to be, a warning of what charismatic leaders could, and would do, if given unchecked power.

Dune itself was supposed to do that. But casual readers didn't seem to get the message and assumed Dune was just a straight Hero's Journey. So Frank Herbert really doubled down on the message with Messiah.

 

[KingsRaiden]

Dune itself was supposed to do that. But casual readers didn't seem to get the message and assumed Dune was just a straight Hero's Journey. So Frank Herbert really doubled down on the message with Messiah.

Interesting, I can see that there was the Journey but it was not what one would expect which is one of the things that makes me love it so much while there is so much else wrapped up in it.
Always thought Messiah, of the first three, was the weakest.

 

[reynold.biplane]

Interesting, I can see that there was the Journey but it was not what one would expect which is one of the things that makes me love it so much while there is so much else wrapped up in it.
Always thought Messiah, of the first three, was the weakest.

I quite liked Messiah. I enjoyed watching Paul struggle morally and politically after his stunning victory in the first book, and seeing his ultimate impotence not only foreshadowed but in action. I also thought that Scytale was a really fun character and I'm glad that we got to see a lot of him (them?).

 

[lmno]

Hi everyone, new updated just uploaded! Just a hotfix with some minor UI changes for player ease-of-use and tutorials!

 

[Finuee]

For those of you who have been having trouble with the text size, there's now a settings icon on the top right where you can set the font size for the game to a larger one.

 

[Roki1212]

Name changer.​

For those who would like to change the MC's name, I know it doesn't make sense at all considering the dune plot, but nevertheless here's a mod which allows that.

It adds the option to choose MC's name when you click New Game, or in Paul's room, there is a new button which will also let you change the MC's name.

Changelog:
- Updated to 0.2.1

Installation:
Just unpack in game folder.

​

If there are any errors in this version please do not bother lmno, Finuee or reynold.biplane with this, unless the same error occurs in the original version.

View attachment dune_breeding_a_dynasty_0_2_1_MOD.zip

 

[Finuee]

Name changer.​

For those who would like to change the MC's name, I know it doesn't make sense at all considering the dune plot, but nevertheless here's a mod which allows that.

It adds the option to choose MC name when you click New Game, or in Paul's room, there is a new button which will also let you change the MC's name.

Changelog:
- Updated to 0.2.1

Installation:
Just unpack in game folder.

View attachment 4112473 View attachment 4112474​

If there are any errors in this version please do not bother @Imno with this, unless the same error occurs in the original version.

View attachment 4112471

Ooooh, it's so cool that you modded it!! Awesome!!

 

[Observore]

Would you have been more likely to figure out that he isn't the main character, and hence a clickable NPC?

The characters appearance would not have mattered. Many VN's use portraits to show who is in a particular location but i can't recall any being clickable. In those games you travel to the location of that character to use whatever prompts appear. My incorrect assumption was the portrait in my location indicated Paul meaning the male character in the other, unreachable, room was Duncan. Would never have thought to click on it. I get it now.

 

[Finuee]

The characters appearance would not have mattered. Many VN's use portraits to show who is in a particular location but i can't recall any being clickable. In those games you travel to the location of that character to use whatever prompts appear. My incorrect assumption was the portrait in my location indicated Paul meaning the male character in the other, unreachable, room was Duncan. Would never have thought to click on it. I get it now.

First off, thanks for your feedback. You sharing with us the problem you had with NPCs has helped us (hopefully) improve the game. Regarding that, we've added a small tip in 0.2.1 when starting the game, upon first encountering Duncan. I'd you're now playing that update and have seen it, do you think that would've been enough to avoid the problem?

 

[reynold.biplane]

The characters appearance would not have mattered. Many VN's use portraits to show who is in a particular location but i can't recall any being clickable. In those games you travel to the location of that character to use whatever prompts appear. My incorrect assumption was the portrait in my location indicated Paul meaning the male character in the other, unreachable, room was Duncan. Would never have thought to click on it. I get it now.

Ok, seems I was wrong with my assumption. I have another one though: Have you (and other people with the same problem) ever played Behind the Dune before? I think most of our playerbase have, and they should be instinctively clicking on character sprites, because they're used to it. That game was basically our starting point design-wise. It was never our intent to make a VN. That's just a result of our graphical limitations and we are taking steps to make the game less VN-like.

 

[Handsome Bread]

I understand what the Golden Path is/does. I just don't understand/disagree with the assumptions that lead to the Golden Path. I find it all very contradictive. Humanity requiring a precise path forward in order to survive in the long term... questionable. Prescience leading to stagnation for an individual makes sense, but prescience of an individual leading to stagnation for the whole species? If Leto's prescience really is so detrimental and he knows it, why doesn't he kill himself sooner? Why the thousands of years of oppression? His rationale there is to instill a strong desire in humanity to be free. But I find that too to be questionable.
If prescience is so bad, why does it require prescience to steer humanity through the narrow path that leads to survival?
I understand that Frank Herbert had a strong distaste of authority, self-abandonment and charismatic leaders. If DUNE had be be distilled down to a single message, it would have to be: "Beware of heroes!" (Uttered verbatim in the first book. ) Yet in the end, it takes the worst tyrant imaginable in order to save humanity from itself. I assume the contradiction is intentional and intended to be profound or something... but I think he's just wrong.


Since you brought this up - I've been meaning to question the nerds here about this thing sooner or later. And now is as good a time as any.
So since only the KH, a male, can access both the male and female memories for whatever reason, whereas females can only access the female ones - How come Alia has the memory of her male ancestors? Or at least one of them, the Baron? That shouldn't be possible and it's never explained. Did Frank Herbert make a mistake there or did I miss or misunderstand something?


I assume you're not seeing the start button? It's pretty small, in the lower left corner of the title card. We will fix this in the next version.


1 - We plan on implementing a tutorial pop up for this part and perhaps some other parts - based on the feedback we receive. We find it to be an inelegant solution but haven't come up with a better solution yet.
- We do not want to go through the hassle of having to maintain a discord server at this time.
2 - I can't speak on that. One of the other devs will have to chime in.
3 - The dialogue system is fully developed. The skill system is only partially developed and currently very underused. Spice harvesting is still entirely missing and that's what we're currently working on. An exploration mechanic is also planned.
- Pregnancy will be added once it makes sense from a story perspective. I'll leave it at that. Just... don't expect a big payoff early in the story.
4 - Personally, I find the inclusion of cheats/assists detrimental to the player experience in some kinds of games (even singleplayer). I'm not gonna go on that tangent now though, because this is NOT that kind of game.
We plan on adding the ability to skip chapters later on. This is sadly a necessary feature, because on the engine we're using, saves cannot be made to be compatible between versions. We haven't discussed cheats yet. I'd say that's not out of the question. Currently the game is so short (when you just skip through everything) that cheats and anything of that sort simply aren't necessary. You can speedrun through the game in 5 minutes if you know what you're doing. Maybe I'll write a walkthrough at some point.

Thanks for the kind words. We are hesitant about monetizing the game due to the commitment this brings. We have considered the option of monetizing it for the purpose of hiring an artist. But we haven't taken any steps in that direction so far.

Thank you.

 

[Prince of Depression]

Name changer.​

For those who would like to change the MC's name, I know it doesn't make sense at all considering the dune plot, but nevertheless here's a mod which allows that.

It adds the option to choose MC's name when you click New Game, or in Paul's room, there is a new button which will also let you change the MC's name.

Changelog:
- Updated to 0.2.1

Installation:
Just unpack in game folder.

View attachment 4112473 View attachment 4112474​

If there are any errors in this version please do not bother lmno, Finuee or reynold.biplane with this, unless the same error occurs in the original version.

View attachment 4112471

Why? Just why? Self-insert guys are weird.

 

[Observore]

I'd you're now playing that update and have seen it, do you think that would've been enough to avoid the problem?

I think that would have been enough. Having a character's name appear in tooltip when you mouse over them regardless of what room they are in would help too if that is possible?

Ok, seems I was wrong with my assumption. I have another one though: Have you (and other people with the same problem) ever played Behind the Dune before?

No, i had never played that game before.