Others Abandoned Esoteric Erotica [v0.149 Alpha] [EsoDev]

[Doctor X]

This game could be diamonds... if it ever sees the light of day. Beautiful language that catches the Lovecraftian spirit and ambience; people talk like civilized people, not some bunch of hobos. Character creation process which is like a game in itself, hitting all the right spots - it does seduce the player in a beautiful way. Mechanics which, by the looks of it, seems really tight and complex, without being complicated at all. Actual esoteric texts. And... no game. There is about 2 complete scenes, both of them very good. I hope the Dev will find time and endurance to fill this fine chalice with content. I guess it'll be worth returning here in maybe 4 years...

 

[EsoDev]

Said some good and some bad.

Allow me to first address the good. Gosh, I've not been complimented like that before! I personally feel there's still a lot that can be done with it to make it better though. And I still need to grow into doing some of that properly.

Now as for the bad. Yeah, I realise. I'm still working on the game almost daily, but I can't let it overtake or destroy my life. Unfortunately the project was meant for a team, not a large team, just about half a dozen writers working together with maybe one or two of them also doing programming. That's how it was looking initially. But it sadly quickly fell apart and for the vast majority of the development I got stuck working on it alone. Now is the first time when I'm getting a decent drizzle of content coming in from other people (Lala and Desert, as per the announcement from a while back). Still, it's a whole lot of work and not that much manhours to throw at it. Sadly the fact about making a rather unique game is that you need to build a lot of stuff from the ground up before you can really bite into doing the content.

 

[Pink Chaos]

Thank you much for including an option to have the same anatomy as my real life self without using gross fetishy terms for it like 'shemale' and such. Signed, a transwoman.

 

[EsoDev]

I got a lot of support from you peeps even before that feature was there, so I decided I might as well give something back in that regard.

 

[IvoryOwl]

This is a very interesting game and just so happens to my kind of thing too!
I'm saddened to see its progress coming (practically) to a halt... but given how ambitious the whole project is, I can understand why. I think, in order to save it, the author needs have to re-evaluate what they want this thing to be.

The original scope was meant to be tackled by a small team rather than 1 or 2 people alone. If that is not possible or feasible in the near future (also due to monetization - slow progress = less hype = fewer supporters = no money to hire a team) then IMO it needs to be scrapped and started over from scratch with less ambitious goals, something that one person can handle (and hopefully improved with a team, should things get better).

The theme can stay but peraphs there could be fewer variables in the equation - less character customization (both physical and stat wise), as unfortunate as it may be. Also, it appears custom-made engines have struck once again, as this isn't the first text-based game I've seen, built on one, that needs to be (partially) re-invented due to technical and personal limitations. It would be sad to see the beautiful UI go but I'd rather a functional game than no game at all... and if things pick up, maybe the game can be re-made one day with its proper assets and original plans in mind.

Anyway, I sincerely wish the developer the best. It would be a shame to lose such an interesting prospect...

 

[EsoDev]

Some stuff...

I prefer no game over not making the game I want to make. And ground to a halt? Excuse me, I've been more productive with what I've made over the last few months than ever before working on it. Just because you don't see progress or don't understand the nature of the progress being made, doesn't mean it's not happening.

 

[IvoryOwl]

I prefer no game over not making the game I want to make. And ground to a halt? Excuse me, I've been more productive with what I've made over the last few months than ever before working on it. Just because you don't see progress or don't understand the nature of the progress being made, doesn't mean it's not happening.

You misunderstand me. I like this game and want it to succeed, I'm merely worried about its future. Eso.Ero must mean a lot to you - you've put a lot of attention and care into it (it shows!), despite your current situation and struggles. For what it is worth, I appreciate your writing skills - it looks and feels like the work of a professional, akin to that of written novels and books. I'm also quite fond of the character customization, as it's not every day a text-game has this amount of detail into it. (ALSO LOVECRAFT EROTICA WITH SEX-POSITIVE VIBES! Need more of this in my life!)

Originally, you required a small team to bring your vision and idea into the world. It didn't pan out. That's not your fault. For a good while you worked on this, alone, until two people came along to help. Eso.Erotica isn't like most games you can find on this website - it is being built on a custom engine that has to be constructed from the ground up. That alone already has its ups and downs. Based on your posts, you strike me a cautious developer that prefers to take their time over rushing things. That's fine, too.

What I'm asking is that you try to look at it from a player's perspective... or a potential supporter. I don't question the progress you've made behind the curtains nor am I debating whether you're being more productive or not, but the truth is most people prefer progress with tangible results. You could be spending 8 hours a day, every day, working hard on this game to bring it to life - it doesn't change the fact that the last release (according to Patreon) was back in February 2020. 9 months ago. (Initially I thought it was 4 months, because of this thread.) In a lot of people's minds, that implies a project on hiatus or in the process of being abandoned, especially here (coupled with the issues you've had to deal with... I assumed the worst).

If you want to attract more followers and supporters, you need more than 9 months worth of progress reports and lore-dumps. This thread saw a lot of attention when it opened 4 months ago... now it has quieted down. I'm not saying you have to hurry it up and ignore real life in favor of this game, just something for you to consider. When I stumbled upon this game I made assumptions (some peraphs a little over-dramatic and pessimistic, I admit). Chances are other people will do the same. First impressions are important after all (though I'm afraid I already messed that one up).

I apologize if I was rude or offensive... I wish you and your game well.
(And sorry for wall of text...)

 

[EsoDev]

Stuff

I often wonder where you people get the idea that the last public version I released was in February, when that's not correct. That's almost as puzzling as the guy who couldn't find the sex scenes.

In any case, you really seem to misunderstand how this works.. I develop this game on my own, spare time. I'm not trying to make money on it. I'm not trying to make it big on Patreon (it's nice to have my development costs covered though). And most definitely I care very little about how much interest this specific thread gets. For anyone who actually follows me, I post weekly updates with maybe like 5 updates missed over the course of over 2 years of development and everyone in my (now open to the public) Discord server gets daily updates on what I'm doing and how the game is progressing. Oh wait, right... I forgot that in the opinion of this whole site, having weekly, detailed progress updates is a bad thing.

 

[IvoryOwl]

[snip]

This is the result we get when we research your Patreon page. If that is not correct, are we really to blame for being misinformed? Most people assume Patreon to be the "main" website a lot of creators and developers use when sharing information but it appears you prioritize other platforms.

I may be wrong but, if your tone is of any indication, it appears you hold some disdain(?) for this website and its users? May I ask why? Some developers hold a particular stance on this website due to its piracy, I can understand that. However, if you truly don't care about gaining followers or funds then at most this thread is just spreading awareness and giving people ground to discuss the game. In fact, I dare say your game is more likely to garner attention through F95 than your Discord or any other platform.

Where did you get the impression nobody likes weekly progress reports here? I mean, sure, some people will have their own opinions on that but I'm having a hard time believing that's akin to an unwritten rule on this entire website... Did you stumble upon the worst apples of this community? Did the comments on this thread upset you?

 

[EsoDev]

Firstly, my oh my, is that an attempt at a catch-22 I'm detecting?

In any case, the assumption that piracy doesn't affect me because my own project is freely distributed and open-source assumes that my motives and actions are purely self-centred and that I do not recognise that this site is used to pirate the work of both people I know (and who unlike me actually live off their work) and even people I don't know. But that's assuming that my disdain for this place comes from the piracy and frankly it does not as I'm more than well aware of the actual effects piracy has on games.

The actual reason why I am disinterested in this site is purely due to the level of discourse encountered here. I've used the catalogue gathered here to look through games many times before I registered and even that happening purely due to someone pointing out that there was weird misinformation spread about my game here.

In my many visits to various threads on this forum, it struck me how unpleasant and entitled the users are. And lo and behold, once my game gets discussed here and the exact kind of people I've noticed elsewhere on this site come and make the precise kind of comments I've observed and found distasteful elsewhere.

Additionally, I have a good deal of analytics concerning traffic to my different sites. Conspicuously, this forum has a meagre share, and even at its highest, the impact was not nearly as significant as traffic generated from basically any other site I have a presence on.

So no, this place is not likely to "garner attention", as you put it and I'm not surprised that it isn't. As I've said before, the game I am making is not aimed at the kind of people who primarily use this site.

 

[IvoryOwl]

[snip]

First off, I would like to thank you for taking the time to reply to me and for clarifying a few things. Yes, I both understand and agree with that this website can be frequented by some... unsavory members. Heavens know I've had my share of bad days and petty arguments in here as well (some were my fault too). Still, there are some of us who enjoy your work and appreciate what you do - even when we get a bit critical about it. Stay strong! And thanks again.

 

[EsoDev]

Stuff

Oh, I'm sure, but do you like it? I'd like to remind you that your initial take for this whole thread you started is that I should abandon all of my concepts and throw several years of work into the trash because you seem to think multiple core concepts underpinning the game are... superfluous.

 

[IvoryOwl]

Oh, I'm sure, but do you like it?

Yes, I do! There aren't many like it. Lovecrafting Erotica with (positive) BDSM. Text-game with multiple choices and consequences. Female protagonist with multiple romantic options (including a monster). Great character customization. These are all things I like in a game. Extra points for not being built on (boring) Ren'Py or Unreal engines.

I'd like to remind you that your initial take for this whole thread you started is that I should abandon all of my concepts and throw several years of work into the trash because you seem to think multiple core concepts underpinning the game are... superfluous.

Yes and no, actually! When I stumbled upon this thread I got the impression Eso.Ero was in a rough spot - it had been a long time since a new version came out and then I read your last post, about your struggles. It reminded me of a culmination of issues I've seen in other games... some of which never made it. Projects that got killed or hindered by their enormous ambitions. Projects that were built on custom engines, and the (horror) stories about the difficulties the developers had to deal with. Projects that had so many issues (IRL or otherwise), that eventually got abandoned. It made me worry about the future of this game. And that is why I brought up the whole "ditch certain parts" idea.

HOWEVER! I didn't say that because I thought those core mechanics to be superfluous or useless. (I like lots of customization options, as well as the UI!) What happened was that I was willing to accept the sacrifice of a simpler game over no game at all, if that's what it came down to. (Because games like this are rare and I don't want it gone.) Yes, it was admittedly selfish and inconsiderate of me.

My worries stem from my (mostly) anxious nature - I sometimes tend to assume or think the worst (and I tend to run my mouth without thinking too.) This project ins't easy, no, but you are an active developer and its clear you have passion in what you do. After speaking with you and reading things more thoroughly, I'm starting to believe you know where you stand, where the game stands, and your limitations. You're not doing this for the money or attention, you do it because you want to.

I jumped to conclusions and got bitten by it. But this is one of those situations where I don't mind being wrong.

 

[DuniX]

Additionally, I have a good deal of analytics concerning traffic to my different sites. Conspicuously, this forum has a meagre share, and even at its highest, the impact was not nearly as significant as traffic generated from basically any other site I have a presence on.

I am sorry but the project as it stands as of this release on this page currently amounts to Jack Fucking Shit.
Exactly what do you expect? If you have nothing what results can you have?
You can get on your high horse only After you have something more substantial to present.

 

[EsoDev]

Stuff

What did I expect? From this site specifically, a mixture of nothing and the exact kind of attitude you are putting on display here. Essentially, you seem to have a very naive and misguided expectation that I am here to impress you, I am not. And as I've said before - this game is not meant for the general audience of this website. Which is precisely why it primarily attracts traffic and attention from elsewhere.

As for the game amounting to "Jack Fucking Shit", considering one of the primary goals I have is implementing and testing underutilised and experimental technical approaches to RPG development. Another primary goal is a form of writing exercise, I've managed to accomplish a whole lot. In certain ways, even more than I initially planned as a lot of the techniques I currently use, I didn't even fathom as possibilities when I started the project. You might not understand this, or you might not care. But you don't matter. I'm not making the game to impress you.

Overall, it's just funny that you say I'm trying to get on some sort of high horse here, while you're also demanding something from me I never expressed interest in giving you.

 

[DuniX]

considering one of the primary goals I have is implementing and testing underutilised and experimental technical approaches to RPG development.

So was Chris Crawford trying to make procedural storytelling for half a century. Did he succeed?
Until you put theory to practice it means nothing.
This is not me the "dirty user from the porn site" crying why there isn't any content and why I am not seeing tities yet.
This is me who has a passing interest in this kind of procedural storytelling interactive fiction and AI driven games.
And know the ultimate outcome of this kind of projects ain't pretty.

 

[EsoDev]

This is me...

Cool.

Now to answer the question. I have no idea who Chris Crawford is, nor am I particularly interested, to be honest. Did he succeed? That's for him to answer. As it is for me.

Have I succeeded? Yes, literally every bit of experimental tech I developed so far ended up working and is being progressively used to build and test new ideas. And it still does not matter what you think on the matter. Or if you are interested in "this kind of procedural storytelling", or for that matter if you think you know what the outcome of "this kind of project" is.

It's also interesting that you jump on calling this place a porn site, as if that in any way matters.

 

[IvoryOwl]

EsoDev
Correct me if I'm wrong.

To put it bluntly for other people to understand, your stance is: "I'm making this game out of my own time and volition. Since I'm not doing this for the money or popularity, no one is allowed or entitled to critique or tell me what to do. Be grateful you get anything, when you get it."

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing here, merely summarizing what I assume your stance to be. Is this correct?

 

[EsoDev]

EsoDev
Correct me if I'm wrong.

>I'm making this game out of my own time and volition.
Yes.
>Since I'm not doing this for the money or popularity, no one is allowed or entitled to critique or tell me what to do.
Not quite, I'm not above criticism but there is a difference between criticism and being that criticism being valid, for many reasons. If you tell me my game doesn't achieve goals I am not trying to achieve, that's meaningless, for example.
>Be grateful you get anything, when you get it.
Definitely no, I'm not looking for anyone's gratitude. Rather, I'm myself grateful for the attention of the people who take the time to understand what this project is, and conversely, what it is not. This include the people who give me money to pay for tools too, but mostly I'm looking for people interesting in more active participation. Like discussing the content, the lore, the mechanics, my theoretical writing, etc., etc.

 

[bytecy]

cant wait for the game to begin.. really excited.. the potential ..ooo.. so hard to find games like this.. luv the mc customization and the possibilities for so many modders to partake.. tq dev.