VN Ren'Py Eternum [v0.8.0] [Caribdis]

4.80 star(s) 1,004 Votes
Discussion Reviews (1,004)
ArDZer

ArDZer

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2019
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Das_Peanut said:
Could we get back on topic -- you know, trying to while away the days until the release of 0.8 by anxiously picking through and arguing about every line of text in the current build as a means of divining the resolution to cliffhangers and plot points --?
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That feeling is understandable. It's just like this image here:
1719956948140.png
We're still in for a waiting of a few months until v0.8 is completed.
 
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Doorknocker

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Aug 5, 2017
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Dorfnutter said:
Yeah, but it also established that Orion doesn't shy away from snapping at the girls when focusing on the more important matters. That behavior with Nova this patch definitely didn't come out from nowhere. The only difference being that it's worse this patch due to Orion's bad behavior and tendencies now amplified and coming out of the woodwork.
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Asking the girls to get back on track isn't snapping at them. How much of an angry, aggressive tone did you read it in?
 
Opa Wants

Opa Wants

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May 14, 2021
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Please,Please,Please STOP Arguing.That horse is being beaten to death, Can we agree to disagree please.
As they say you have your opinion and I have mine, OK?:rolleyes:
 
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Doorknocker

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Aug 5, 2017
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Dorfnutter said:
I think what he's referring to is that we as players see Nova's POV where she frets and plans for the One Piece date to make sure it's absolutely perfect only for Annie to torpedo that by giving her the news of the finale's delay. Orion doesn't see that (and only hears some details about it from her mother), so he doesn't completely understand that the date means THAT much to her (especially since we see that she was planning to confess and punch out her v-card if things went well).
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Doorknocker

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Aug 5, 2017
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Dorfnutter said:
I didn't say that she'll be of any use to Orion's current predicament (that's Doorknocker's answer), only that Restoration magic being the right choice has been hinted at in her dialogue prior to getting to Warthogs.

If anything though, it could likely bite her in the ass during a combat moment very late in the game where a pure restoration build will be required. And while I don't think it would lead to Orion dying (again), it's possible that it would lead to someone in the party dying instead.
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Doorknocker

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TamreeFugar said:
Please,Please,Please STOP Arguing.That horse is being beaten to death, Can we agree to disagree please.
As they say you have your opinion and I have mine, OK?:rolleyes:
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That'd be cool. My argument started when I said that the latest chapter had some fun stuff in it, but I found some of the MC's behavior to be jarring and a bit out of character. Then Dorfnutter was outraged and jumped down my throat about it. It's obvious he's gone after people over this before as there seemed to be a pretty set series of talking points and screen caps, arguing as if I had claimed that the MC wasn't arrogant. That straw man argument implied to me that this is a position he's used to arguing? Or that it's a regular position he tries to frame people as?

Anyway, the point of all this is to say that finding some of the MC's behavior jarring in the last chapter is a perfectly valid, justified reaction and isn't crazy as Dorfnutter seems to think.
 
Dorfnutter

Dorfnutter

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May 21, 2017
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Doorknocker said:
What a ridiculously bad faith argument. MC likes the idea of fame, therefore fame and ambition dwarfs anything else he wants or anything/anyone else he's involved with. This has never been true in the game during actual play.
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Him revealing his plans to Garrington and revealing Caly's ability to him as if he were gloating. Him deciding either to use his name or alias and then hoping it'll spread far. All signs pointing to that throwaway line being present and consistent with some of his actions, percolating until all of those wins and conquests put that line of thinking into the forefront this patch.

Doorknocker said:
He constantly prioritizes playing with the girls he likes and tagging along on their little adventures instead of focusing on the gems (largely leaving that kind of stuff to Nancy and Nova, actually)
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He tagged along with Luna and Penny because of the NPC disturbance in Ekabar. Or are we just going to ignore that?

Doorknocker said:
Even in the intro scene you posted, fame is #2 while #1 is getting laid. Now, what actually happens in game is that it's not just about getting laid. He cares about the girls and he becomes increasingly more involved in their lives as time goes on. This is exaictly how character progression and character arcs work, by the way. Stated wants and desires at the start of a story are almost never what they actually end up wanting through the course of the tale. This is writing 101.
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Only after they realize that getting what they want will result in negative consequences so they course correct or experience a redemption arc. Orion got shot because he let said wants get to his head, and it's obvious that he's about to get a redemption arc. Or do you think that he didn't deserve to get shot back there?

Doorknocker said:
He's always wanting to get involved with the girls, and the girls have overwhelmingly steered him along from one event/goal to another throughout this entire series[...]This whole story has mostly been about the girls' ambition pushing MC from one adventure to another. This has not been a story defined by the MC's ambition and thirst for fame. It's completely disengenuous and bad faith bs to pretend that it is.
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Oh, so now we're ignoring the Syndicate? The implication from Idriel's dialogue that she's been monitoring Orion if he's still in "the right path" and her constant coaxing for him to "break the chains" and "keep moving forward?" The dead who've plagued Orion's dreams since the beginning of the story asking for his help?

Also, "not defined by his ambition and thirst for fame." You really want to reduce Orion into a self-insert who has no personal desires or flaws despite the story saying otherwise? Despite me pointing out instances where they've shown but you continue to ignore because they apparently aren't important enough for you or "major enough" to warrant a look.
 
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Dorfnutter

Dorfnutter

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May 21, 2017
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Doorknocker said:
Actually, he does know from the lie detector test that she wants him to punch her V-card, he hears from her mother that she's been "practically chewing her nails off all week thinking about today," and that "she was crushed when they canceled those pirate cartoons you were going to watch together," that "Yesterday she spent the whole day whining and brainstorming plans for today," she tried to bake a cake that got ruined, she "tried to draw one of those Japanese comics of hers for you, but she wasn't happy with how it turned out, so she tossed it away," and "she spent a good three hours this morning trying to straighten her hair and comb it just right." The mother then talks about what a big crush Nova has on him. Yes, the MC knew this was a big deal for Nova.
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Just because you know something doesn't necessarily mean you completely understand it. Orion has been portrayed at times to be a "high INT, low WIS" kind of guy. He's intelligent enough to know about Octopus lore and saying what he thinks a girl wants to hear, but then he follows it up by cashing in on said girl sucking his cock.
 
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Dorfnutter

Dorfnutter

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Doorknocker said:
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First, it proves that Orion focusing on the mission over the girls' wants (in this case, having a conversation about muffins) isn't something new. Hence his behavior to Nova isn't something that came out of nowhere.

Second, that scene with the courtesans is me refuting your argument that Orion has "overwhelming tunnel vision" for the girls. If that were true, then he would've focused more on thinking about the potential danger Nova and Alex are in and would've jumped on that portal without second thought. Except he didn't, even negotiating with Caly to stay there "forever."
 
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Doorknocker

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Aug 5, 2017
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Dorfnutter said:
Him revealing his plans to Garrington and revealing Caly's ability to him as if he were gloating. Him deciding either to use his name or alias and then hoping it'll spread far. All signs pointing to that throwaway line being present and consistent with some of his actions, percolating until all of those wins and conquests put that line of thinking into the forefront this patch.
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Dorfnutter said:
He tagged along with Luna and Penny because of the NPC disturbance in Ekabar. Or are we just going to ignore that?
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Dorfnutter said:
Only after they realize that getting what they want will result in negative consequences so they course correct or experience a redemption arc. Orion got shot because he let said wants get to his head, and it's obvious that he's about to get a redemption arc. Or do you think that he didn't deserve to get shot back there?
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Dorfnutter said:
Oh, so now we're ignoring the Syndicate? The implication from Idriel's dialogue that she's been monitoring Orion if he's still in "the right path" and her constant coaxing for him to "break the chains" and "keep moving forward?" The dead who've plagued Orion's dreams since the beginning of the story asking for his help?
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Dorfnutter said:
Also, "not defined by his ambition and thirst for fame." You really want to reduce Orion into a self-insert who has no personal desires or flaws despite the story saying otherwise? Despite me pointing out instances where they've shown but you continue to ignore because they apparently aren't important enough for you or "major enough" to warrant a look.
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Dorfnutter

Dorfnutter

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May 21, 2017
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Doorknocker said:
Okay, it's over the top clear that you're completely ignoring the entire premise of what I say and straw manning your way again and again. The MC gloating to Garrington is not proof of his ego and arrogance dwarfing his involvement with his harem. You keep posting and citing examples of him being cocky, not his cockiness overshadowing his ties with his harem. You're frantically trying to shift the goal posts and straw man your way through, pretending that I'm claiming that the MC doesn't have an ego. That's not what I said and the lines you throw up don't make MC ditching the date unilaterally and suddenly taking Nova for granted any less jarring. I'm done repeating myself with you. There clearly is no point.
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Am I? My position has been that Orion's behavior towards Nova didn't come out from nowhere, that there were moments in the story where his negative aspects sometimes come to light and are a product of goals that you dismissed as "throwaway lines" when they show consistency of character. Just because they don't highlight it as well as you personally like like the LI events (because gods forbid a porn AVN tries to focus on the buildup towards the porn) doesn't mean they're not there.

Doorknocker said:
That is not a requirement for character arcs and progression. Often, the stated wants aren't the actual wants of characters. Very often, in fact. You're acting as if the stated wants at the start of a story are always true and only change after a character crashes and burns. That's simply not true, and plenty of character arcs don't conform to that formula.
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It remains true until stated otherwise. It's shown to still be true when Orion decided to either use his name or take an alias back in 0.6.

Doorknocker said:
What does the Syndicate have to do with anything I've said? Are you just grasping at straws now? And you know that the MC doesn't remember any of his dreams, right? You've picked up on that?
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You're the one who said that Orion is constantly stringed along by the girls in their adventures as if he doesn't have agency or purpose or being watched by various factions/major characters with their own vested interests, not me.
 
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4.80 star(s) 1,004 Votes