VN Ren'Py Eternum [v0.8.6 Public] [Caribdis]

[MWPA78]

This bypasses how Caribdis uses these elements to serve plot and characterisation.

Dalia's established as a gym freak and competitive in school physical education too, while Orion's an exchange student to Kredon for his academic results, not his athleticism. This makes Dalia the far likelier character to do competitive sports and matches, while Orion has to restart his gym routine.

The simplistic reading of Orion as a cringe simp relies on a partial selection of examples, but his interactions show a wider palette. Luna's arc's full with friendliness and helping without whiteknighting. Annie becomes a real option as a partner only till after the Red Herring. The sex in Penny's arc happens because both teasingly flirt and get carried away. There's plenty of relaxed banter with Dalia, Penny and Alex, too. To give a few examples relying less on single anecdotes.

Eternum's narrative and romantic plot resembles a bildungsroman: Orion has to undergo character development and cultivate emotional intelligence, despite the headstart from his origins. He transitions from a horny virgin to surprise success to the WRE's flawed, reckless champion leaning to a bad boy to becoming a more emotionally mature heroic figure. This achieves Caribdis's goal for Eternum to have a more anchored harem formation. An alternative storyline where he becomes more of a playboy/bad boy is possible in theory, but less likely and matches the Hero's Journey-like plot less and fit a less vanilla fetish orientation.

It's clear Orion doesn't match your gender ideal and yes he could've maybe had more chill or more of a gym routine at the start - if that served Caribdis's story purposes: but he doesn't have, and repeated posting of those variations on the same theme, and I suggest your lens leads you to a selective reading, doesn't achieve much. Like MAGO-DAG already said.

Have not seen any bad boy moments people speak of in the beginning. I suspect that the simpish whiteknight is just what Caribdis sees as an ideal.

The reason I play the game is the interesting world and well made sex scenes. The girls are progressive tropes, but luna and annie are pretty feminine and enjoyable.

Mago-dag mostly said that he wants to be like him:

Spoiler

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[Dorfnutter]

Have not seen any bad boy moments people speak of in the beginning. I suspect that the simpish whiteknight is just what Caribdis sees as an ideal.

...In what universe is this simpish whiteknight behavior?

 

[Dorfnutter]

They are teenage boys, after all. This is pretty tame.

I was responding to the fact that he seems to think Orion is a "simpish whiteknight" when his conversation with Chang at the very beginning of the game plus his self-realization later on that he's courting danger by fooling around with the LIs (if you're following the harem path) kind of puts all his "goodie two shoes" behavior in a different light, as if he's simply saying the right words and doing the right things but doing so for less than pure intentions, something that oftentimes rears its ugly head like during his time with Dalia at her private server.

 

[MAGO-DAG]

Mago-dag mostly said that he wants to be like him:

Don't be offended by the truth
As I said, you've played enough games where Mc is the dominant figure and I've seen in which threads you drooled over Mc because he doesn't run to women first and doesn't suck up to them, and most importantly, you like it when they are either humiliated or when Mc commands them like an alpha male.

But, you didn't take one thing into account: We are playing PORN games and not just a game in the style of sigma where a man simply ignores women and only thinks about himself and thinks like "Why should I fight for women's hearts if I'm handsome and they will come running to me themselves?"

Most of us are like a horny boy or a pervert in our souls when we see "boobs or asses" we will grab onto it and that is Orion!
You can't change anything because of your whining, everyone has their own trait, someone is an alpha male with a dominant character, someone is an alpha male with a perverted style, and another is an alpha with a lustful desire who always tries in any way to win women's attention and of course pussies.

Dude, let's stop this whining, ok? We already realized that you probably never tried to win the attention of girls in real life and do not invest your grievances on me and good luck to you!

 

[insanity10k]

I left for like an hour. Wtf did I come back to? x_x

 

[Maccabbee]

I left for like an hour. Wtf did I come back to? x_x

 

[MWPA78]

...In what universe is this simpish whiteknight behavior?

I was responding to the fact that he seems to think Orion is a "simpish whiteknight" when his conversation with Chang at the very beginning of the game plus his self-realization later on that he's courting danger by fooling around with the LIs (if you're following the harem path) kind of puts all his "goodie two shoes" behavior in a different light, as if he's simply saying the right words and doing the right things but doing so for less than pure intentions, something that oftentimes reared its ugly head like during his time with Dalia at her private server.

What he says in these scenes goes well with a simp/whiteknight, as they care only about getting sex, and try to get it by giving lots of compliments/pretending to be kind. Its a deception/lie. So he might be a bad person, but not a bad boy as bad boys usually are very honest and upfront about wanting to fuck the girl in front of them - but they are also disrespectful and don't care about hurting them.

In this scene he talks like he's gonna behave like a bad boy, but his actions then are those of a simp/whiteknight.

Of the game, or your repeated hot-takes? OF the game, I am not a huge fan of HS art, though this is one of the few games I don't mind it. Usually I tolerate it for the writing and action, but Cari did a great job (mostly). Everything else works for me, in terms of the game universe. A lot of the stuff wouldn't make sense in other games, but fits with the way it's set up (and where I anticipate it going).

Really, if it were worse that it is, all would be forgiven for the Alex sex scene. I am not the one complaining about the game, not at all. You are.

I only like honey select games. But my question was related to your comment that humanity sucks so much right now. So I asked in what way.

 

[MWPA78]

Don't be offended by the truth
As I said, you've played enough games where Mc is the dominant figure and I've seen in which threads you drooled over Mc because he doesn't run to women first and doesn't suck up to them, and most importantly, you like it when they are either humiliated or when Mc commands them like an alpha male.

But, you didn't take one thing into account: We are playing PORN games and not just a game in the style of sigma where a man simply ignores women and only thinks about himself and thinks like "Why should I fight for women's hearts if I'm handsome and they will come running to me themselves?"

Most of us are like a horny boy or a pervert in our souls when we see "boobs or asses" we will grab onto it and that is Orion!
You can't change anything because of your whining, everyone has their own trait, someone is an alpha male with a dominant character, someone is an alpha male with a perverted style, and another is an alpha with a lustful desire who always tries in any way to win women's attention and of course pussies.

Dude, let's stop this whining, ok? We already realized that you probably never tried to win the attention of girls in real life and do not invest your grievances on me and good luck to you!

I cannot relate to your mindset and have no interest talking to you.

Best wishes

 

[Deskitteh]

The chip costs $3,500, but your point stands


Ah, another man of culture as well.

Could have sworn it was $2,000, but 1.75 times that is even crazier.

 

[Dorfnutter]

What he says in these scenes goes well with a simp/whiteknight, as they care only about getting sex, and try to get it by giving lots of compliments/pretending to be kind. Its a deception/lie. So he might be a bad person, but not a bad boy as bad boys usually are very honest and upfront about wanting to fuck the girl in front of them - but they are also disrespectful and don't care about hurting them.

In this scene he talks like he's gonna behave like a bad boy, but his actions then are those of a simp/whiteknight.

Simp/whiteknights usually mean what they say tho. Orion having ulterior motives essentially muddies that.

Also funny how you basically dismiss Orion being a bad boy when your definition of bad boy basically applies to his scene with Maat (and to a certain extent him fingering Penny during her photoshoot event despite her overall hesitance on the matter and Nova's first penetration scene as he essentially pushes her into not using protection despite her initially wanting to honor her mom's wishes). Or are you gonna move the goalposts again and say that doesn't count?

 

[Deskitteh]

I cannot relate to your mindset and have no interest talking to you.

Best wishes

It's a concerning sign of the times when empathetically engaging with a member of the opposite sex makes you a "sucker idolizing mediocre pussy".

A literal madonna invites you to see her perform in a legitimate sporting event and to simply support her without publicly embarrassing her. You manage do that, the bare minimum, and so she welcomes you onto a private beach and playfully implies that she's caught feelings for you, and you can't even imagine wanting to explore her personality and emotions in a conversation? To listen when something is bothering her, and to offer her legitimate advice and support after what was effectively a nasty and embarrassing experience?

I don't mean this as an attack, so forgive me, but this is reptillian behavior. It seems like a lack of fundamental interest in others combined with the view that people are calculating creatures at their best.

 

[Deskitteh]

Dad is alive. Mom is a cypher.

What do you mean by cypher if you don't mind me asking?

 

[e6mill]

What do you mean by cypher if you don't mind me asking?

There is a total of 1 sentence in the game about mom. And it doesn't give any info other than that she left when Orion was very young.

 

[Finuee]

What do you mean by cypher if you don't mind me asking?

Probably that the identity of Orion's mother is one of the things people have been theorizing about.

 

[MWPA78]

It's a concerning sign of the times when empathetically engaging with a member of the opposite sex makes you a "sucker idolizing mediocre pussy".

A literal madonna invites you to see her perform in a legitimate sporting event and to simply support her without publicly embarrassing her. You manage do that, the bare minimum, and so she welcomes you onto a private beach and playfully implies that she's caught feelings for you, and you can't even imagine wanting to explore her personality and emotions in a conversation? To listen when something is bothering her, and to offer her legitimate advice and support after what was effectively a nasty and embarrassing experience?

I don't mean this as an attack, so forgive me, but this is reptillian behavior. It seems like a lack of fundamental interest in others combined with the view that people are calculating creatures at their best.

Like written before, I don't criticize genuinely good behavior. I'm allergic to buttering girls up with compliments/kindness to get sex. Because I dislike the sucking up to them and because its dishonest.

In addition to that, MC in that scene tried to improve her self-esteem, which is fine if its done with pure intention (which is questionable as he isnt concerned with changs or micaelas selfesteem). Its also sucking up to her, because if he had a spine he would tell her that NOBODY cares about her stupid weightlifting. Even fitness thots are aware enough to know that the only reason they lift is keeping their body attractive. He would also tell her that continuing kickboxing will make her look like a pitbull and that, YES, men care about her looks and couldn't care less about her kickboxing. That 80% of the reason any guy cares about anything she does is that she is hot af. Giving her a dose of reality would be a genuine show of benevolence instead of telling her what she likes to hear and let her continue with her idiotic endeavours that will bring her absolute nothing - a girl fretting over a weightlifting competition kek. Does she wanna look like micaela? Everyone aside chang sees her as a freak, including MC. He should tell her that. That would be honest for once. And it would put her at ease at the same time.

TLDR: We can't have good things because men lack the spine to tell girls that what they are doing is prime stupid.

RANT OFF lol

No attack taken, friend. We just exchange opinions.

 

[MWPA78]

Simp/whiteknights usually mean what they say tho. Orion having ulterior motives essentially muddies that.

Also funny how you basically dismiss Orion being a bad boy when your definition of bad boy basically applies to his scene with Maat (and to a certain extent him fingering Penny during her photoshoot event despite her overall hesitance on the matter and Nova's first penetration scene as he essentially pushes her into not using protection despite her initially wanting to honor her mom's wishes). Or are you gonna move the goalposts again and say that doesn't count?

This is not a battle, fellow internet user. We just talk about an interesting aspect of a fictional character. I have no intention to move the goalposts. I'm conversing in good faith and I think there was a prior situation where I realized you were right and said so.
I havent reached the Nova scene yet. Didn't he just give maat and penelope what they wanted? Fucked maat hard? I dont remember well, but didn't penelope do the "I say I'm not sure, although I really really want you to go further"-thing? I think the one moment where Caribdis tried to make MC act like a bad boy was the Alex pen compliment at the very beginning - although it seemed very try hard.

Simps/whiteknights may mean what they say, but the reason they do it is not genuine kindness but an exchange - kind words in hopes for sex. So I agree, its not really lying but still dishonest. Because they don't give that kindness to non-hot women. So they are at least subconsciously calculating.

If a guy is nice to a girl just because, I wont complain. (Ripples MC does that sometimes.) Nor will I complain if a guy purely wants sex and doesn't hide it in slimy words.

 

[Deskitteh]

Like written before, I don't criticize genuinely good behavior. I'm allergic to buttering girls up with compliments/kindness to get sex. Because I dislike the sucking up to them and because its dishonest.

In addition to that, MC in that scene tried to improve her self-esteem, which is fine if its done with pure intention (which is questionable as he isnt concerned with changs or micaelas selfesteem). Its also sucking up to her, because if he had a spine he would tell her that NOBODY cares about her stupid weightlifting. Even fitness thots are aware enough to know that the only reason they lift is keeping their body attractive. He would also tell her that continuing kickboxing will make her look like a pitbull and that, YES, men care about her looks and couldn't care less about her kickboxing. That 80% of the reason any guy cares about anything she does is that she is hot af. Giving her a dose of reality would be a genuine show of benevolence instead of telling her what she likes to hear and let her continue with her idiotic endeavours that will bring her absolute nothing - a girl fretting over a weightlifting competition kek. Does she wanna look like micaela? Everyone aside chang sees her as a freak, including MC. He should tell her that. That would be honest for once. And it would put her at ease at the same time.

TLDR: We can't have good things because men lack the spine to tell girls that what they are doing is prime stupid.

RANT OFF lol

No attack taken, friend. We just exchange opinions.

So what you mean to say is that you want him to be more forthright about his intentions? It's an interesting take for sure. I mean this is a game so with the extension of disbelief the pit-bull thing would have never crossed my mind.

In Orion's defense, he can't just instruct her not to do what makes her genuinely happy in some misguided effort to course-correct for her. The fastest way to lose a new friend is to try to smother them with your guiding wing.

If Orion is thinking critically, which with a brain like his he better be, he's probably already considered that and thought about how she feels and decided not to breach the subject because he believes that it's not his choice to make for her.

 

[Dorfnutter]

I dont remember well, but didn't penelope do the "I say I'm not sure, although I really really want you to go further"-thing?

Spoiler: ....

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Simps/whiteknights may mean what they say, but the reason they do it is not genuine kindness but an exchange - kind words in hopes for sex.

Really now? Is that how you see it? Cause last I checked simps/whiteknights are do-gooders expecting some kind of reward but they more often than not never receive it because they're usually portrayed as cowards or turbo-virgins who never really plan beyond just being someone's doormat. Contrast that to Orion who may seem like a simp/whiteknight but is an absolute horndog who does shit to get laid to the point that he doesn't hesitate to drop the do-gooder behavior when the opportunity for a lay presents itself (at least, prior to the ending of 0.7).

Spoiler: Like, just as a reminder...

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[MWPA78]

So what you mean to say is that you want him to be more forthright about his intentions? It's an interesting take for sure. I mean this is a game so with the extension of disbelief the pit-bull thing would have never crossed my mind.

In Orion's defense, he can't just instruct her not to do what makes her genuinely happy in some misguided effort to course-correct for her. The fastest way to lose a new friend is to try to smother them with your guiding wing.

If Orion is thinking critically, which with a brain like his he better be, he's probably already considered that and thought about how she feels and decided not to breach the subject because he believes that it's not his choice to make for her.

Yeah, I enjoy watching MCs who are genuinely kind and don't hide that they also like to fuck.

I agree, I also wouldn't tell a new friend what to do - if he's a guy. But MC doesn't want dalia as a friend, he wants her as a girlfriend, and contrary to popular showing in progressive movies and such, if a girl is into you, which dalia obviously is, they like being told what to do, and they especially like a guy who is not afraid to tell them what they don't wanna hear - as it shows them he will be honest in everything and that they can really actually trust him. Girls still like dominant masculine guys imo, even if they say otherwise when asked. As the saying goes: Dont listen to what they say, look at what they do. lol

 

[MWPA78]

Spoiler: ....

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Really now? Is that how you see it? Cause last I checked simps/whiteknights are do-gooders expecting some kind of reward but they more often than not never receive it because they're usually portrayed as cowards or turbo-virgins who never really plan beyond just being someone's doormat. Contrast that to Orion who may seem like a simp/whiteknight but is an absolute horndog who does shit to get laid to the point that he doesn't hesitate to drop the do-gooder behavior when the opportunity for a lay presents itself (at least, prior to the ending of 0.7).

If simps/whiteknights understood it in their heart that what they do doesn't work they wouldn't do it.

MC is not simping in every single situation, in that japanese concubines scene he was just merely a weakling for not doing what he wanted. But he still simps a lot imo. And in a sense he kinda simped for the two japanese chicks, as he would have abandoned important matters to have sex with them.

About your first example: I cannot believe you are serious, Dorfnutter. Manipulating? She practically begged him to continue. Until just recently every man knew that "no" many times means "yes" if shes attracted to the guy, and thats how Caribdis used it here. MC just did exactly what she wanted. If thats your definition of a bad boy...
But it was not simping, thats true.