VN Ren'Py Eternum [v0.9.2] [Caribdis]

[housekinokuni1974]

this debate around virginity is fascinating haah

 

[Padorublad3]

For the new people here,if somebody didn't know there is the Fan art Thread

 

[ChipLecsap]

It is what I inferred based on the evidence provided. I could say the same to you, given how you seem to think that Alex's exterior persona is her true self rather than something of a facade or a shell that Orion has to break.

That's not what I said, but that the opposite, that Orion is the one who remind her of her old self the little girl who " dreamed " about her prince. The one she long forgotten. and I just played that part to refressh my memory and yeah all that first flashback and all happens right after Orion stand up agenst her father.

so in some extent even the narrative is played out that way, Here is Alex who is more than what you assumed at first, and now she remember that part, because they guy showed up

could he be the one , her prince ?

 

[Dorfnutter]

I dont think this argument makes much sense to me. Her grandmother was there for her and she loved her. That alone is reason enough to keep a memento of her. You dont need to dramatically throw away something that reminds you about a dead family member just because your opinions come to differ over time. Even if she ended up being disillusioned with the idea of finding true love, her grandmother's words were made with good intentions and were filled with love and she was a family member Alex cherished. So I see no reason for her to have that flashback rebelling against her grandma being all dramatic if she naturally came to disagree with an opinion her grandmother had over time as Alex grew older.

As a real life example, my opinions on certain political topics differ from that of my parents. But I still love them - its not an act of rebellion just because our perspectives are slightly different.

It's based on the argument that Cari is pretty anal with his character's traits (as shown with his arguments regarding Nan being in-character despite some people on his Discord arguing that her not panicking was illogical). If her character trait was "full rebel who used to be sweet" rather than "sweet girl who built a tough exterior to hide it," then she would eschew mementos rather than keep then, her personality would be a lot more antagonistic, and her character arc would be her recovering her Nana's memento instead of having it as a keepsake.

But Cari instead chose to have that memento on her, so that has to count as something for her character rather than just something that she wears despite going against the stuff her grandma used to tell her (and on the contrary her literally talking to said memento pretty much implies that her grandma is still important to her rather than a character that used to be important).

 

[ChipLecsap]

I fully agree. I enjoy discussing stuff with people with different opinions. It broadens my mind.

I rarely participate, because eventually people constantly will try to prove their point in beyond to the " yeah there is no real answer so mine is better, because this and this and why you are wrong. "

and it never end. and then Dorfnutter bring some vague Caribdis comment from his discord that neither confirm or deny anything, but he use it to support his view anyway.

and I eventually end up being the Asshole

I remember, that literally said Orion is not dead, and now obviously everyone will claim they know, but there were long post about how Caribdis made sure that we hear his " last breath " blah blah, - and the very first thing he did was to change the ending of episode 7

and it played out how some of us exactly said it will because it was obvious.

It's the same way, obvious Alex's characterization. Hence why it was never even a big deal . Whereas it was a pretty big deal for Annie, and Nova, and Dalia.

It is for sure up for interpretation but in an extend it is a pointless debate, because nothing is confirmed directly. and if Cari would have been forced then, as I said he know his audience. So everyone is a Vrigin.

 

[Finuee]

It's based on the argument that Cari is pretty anal with his character's traits (as shown with his arguments regarding Nan being in-character despite some people on his Discord arguing that her not panicking was illogical). If her character trait was "full rebel who used to be sweet" rather than "sweet girl who built a tough exterior to hide it," then she would eschew mementos rather than keep then, her personality would be a lot more antagonistic, and her character arc would be her recovering her Nana's memento instead of having it as a keepsake.

But Cari instead chose to have that memento on her, so that has to count as something for her character rather than just something that she wears despite going against the stuff her grandma used to tell her (and on the contrary her literally talking to said memento pretty much implies that her grandma is still important to her rather than a character that used to be important).

I think it's a given she's written to be sweet with a tough shell, that's pretty obvious.

 

[Finuee]

I rarely participate, because eventually people constantly will try to prove their point in beyond to the " yeah there is no real answer so mine is better, because this and this and why you are wrong. "

and it never end. and then Dorfnutter bring some vague Caribdis comment from his discord that neither confirm or deny anything, but he use it to support his view anyway.

and I eventually end up being the Asshole

I remember, that literally said Orion is not dead, and now obviously everyone will claim they know, but there were long post about how Caribdis made sure that we hear his " last breath " blah blah, - and the very first thing he did was to change the ending of episode 7

and it played out how some of us exactly said it will because it was obvious.

It's the same way, obviou Alex characternasitation. Hence why it was never even a big deal about it. Whereas it was a pretty big deal for Annie, and Nova, and Dalia.

It is for sure up for interpretation but in an extend it is a pointless debate, because nothing is confirmed directly. and if Cari would have been forced then, as I said he know his audience. So everyone is a Vrigin.

I don't think it's really very important at all, but I personally think she probably wasn't. Also, I just wanted to make a point that there was no need for her to be a virgin to be in line with her personality. I must also confess I don't remember the exact details of the nana flashback at the moment, so maybe I could be proven wrong.

 

[ChipLecsap]

I don't think it's really very important at all, but I personally think she probably wasn't. Also, I just wanted to make a point that there was no need for her to be a virgin to be in line with her personality. I must also confess I don't remember the exact details of the nana flashback at the moment, so maybe I could be proven wrong.

somehow it's seem in an extend , some people want Alex whole persona to be just a fake, faced masquerade. Instead of yeah, this girl went through her shit, and now there is a new light in her life including new friends and love, thanks to the Prince whos her mother long long time ago, when she was a little girl, told about.

No its not cool, everything is Fake, her tattoos are fake, her tight leather pants are not real leather , she is not independent, and she just this pretender fake persona.

 

[Dorfnutter]

That's not what I said, but that the opposite, that Orion is the one who remind her of her old self the little girl who " dreamed " about her prince. The one she long forgotten. and I just played that part to refressh my memory and yeah all that first flashback and all happens right after Orion stand up agenst her father.

so in some extent even the narrative is played out that way, Here is Alex who is more than what you assumed at first, and now she remember that part, because they guy showed up

could he be the one , her prince ?
View attachment 4911315

That old self was always there. Otherwise she would not be sentimental enough as to keep her Nana's memento in her possession.

and it never end. and then Dorfnutter bring some vague Caribdis comment from his discord that neither confirm or deny anything, but he use it to support his view anyway.

So Cari arguing that Nan was in-character for keeping her calm and de-escalating Nova's panic instead of also giving in to the panic is vague to you?

Also I brought that comment up to illustrate a point: that Cari would not add certain traits to his characters -in this case Nan being the adult in the group- and then have them contradict said traits. So if Cari gave Alex a trait of her Nana's words and promises being a big deal to her even after all these years, she would not go about besmirching that, especially given the things she does to illustrate her still being close to her (i.e. talking to her memento).

 

[Dorfnutter]

I remember, that literally said Orion is not dead, and now obviously everyone will claim they know, but there were long post about how Caribdis made sure that we hear his " last breath " blah blah, - and the very first thing he did was to change the ending of episode 7

He did not change it. Orion was clinically dead and was about to become another lost soul in Eternum had it not been for the last minute manifestation of his powers as well as Caly resuscitating and healing him from the brink.

Spoiler: Like, she even said so in her dialogue...

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[ChipLecsap]

So Cari arguing that Nan was in-character for keeping her calm and de-escalating Nova's panic instead of also giving in to the panic is vague to you?

Well, just for the record I never need Cari to tell me that, because It was obvious to me, and I personally never even made a fuss about it. apparently others did, and he need to explain it to them.

but regarding our " debate " that not confirm anything.

 

[Dorfnutter]

Well, just for the record I never need Cari to tell me that, because It was obvious to me, and I personally never even made a fuss about it. apparently others did, and he need to explain it to them.

but regarding our " debate " that not confirm anything.

I mean, if character inconsistency is not an issue with you, sure.

 

[agrdtcwa]

It's based on the argument that Cari is pretty anal with his character's traits (as shown with his arguments regarding Nan being in-character despite some people on his Discord arguing that her not panicking was illogical). If her character trait was "full rebel who used to be sweet" rather than "sweet girl who built a tough exterior to hide it," then she would eschew mementos rather than keep then, her personality would be a lot more antagonistic, and her character arc would be her recovering her Nana's memento instead of having it as a keepsake.

But Cari instead chose to have that memento on her, so that has to count as something for her character rather than just something that she wears despite going against the stuff her grandma used to tell her (and on the contrary her literally talking to said memento pretty much implies that her grandma is still important to her rather than a character that used to be important).

This seems like a bit of a reach to me to be honest. If he wanted to make it clear that she was a virgin, he would have done it given how big a deal taking nova, dalia and annie's virginity was. He certainly did not have a problem doing it for them.

The fact that he did not do that means there is room for interpretation. And sure maybe she was a virgin that would fit just as well with her personality to me as her having had a casual encounter in the past. I guess we just fundamentally disagree here because I dont think casual sex makes a girl any less sweet. Again taking the example of orion - I think he is a sweet person and the fact that he had casual sex with Eva and Maat in my playthrough does not change that.

I think sex is stigmatized so much here on this website which is strange to me given it is a website dedicated to porn games. I simply dont see alex sleeping around a couple of times even if it was just done as a fuck you to william as a slight against her character. Of course if she was manipulative I wouldnt like it but a no strings attached relationship? I dont think there is anything wrong with that. I dont think it makes her a slut. And I dont think it makes her a bad person. Its just sex - its no big deal unless you make it a big deal.

 

[elbo911]

[...]
I guess we just fundamentally disagree here because I dont think casual sex makes a girl any less sweet. Again taking the example of orion - I think he is a sweet person and the fact that he had casual sex with Eva and Maat in my playthrough does not change that.

I think sex is stigmatized so much here on this website which is strange to me given it is a website dedicated to porn games. I simply dont see alex sleeping around a couple of times even if it was just done as a fuck you to william as a slight against her character. Of course if she was manipulative I wouldnt like it but a no strings attached relationship? I dont think there is anything wrong with that. I dont think it makes her a slut. And I dont think it makes her a bad person. Its just sex - its no big deal unless you make it a big deal.

As far as I've gathered, nobody here meant to imply having casual sex would make Alex (or anyone, for that matter) any less sweet, a slut or a worse kind of person in any way. I'm pretty sure you've misread that.

 

[ChipLecsap]

He did not change it. Orion was clinically dead and was about to become another lost soul in Eternum had it not been for the last minute manifestation of his powers as well as Caly resuscitating and healing him from the brink.

Spoiler: Like, she even said so in her dialogue...

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Where she said he was dead, again ?
"you were dead, nearly dead, I had to bring back to life"
- Where she say this ?

He was not Dead, he teleported before he died, just barely in time


listen buddy, with all respect, you and I , We not gonna get along so, in peace we just ignore each other, ok ?

Peace

 

[agrdtcwa]

As far as I've gathered, nobody here meant to imply having casual sex would make Alex (or anyone, for that matter) any less sweet, a slut or a worse kind of person in any way. I'm pretty sure you've misread that.

My bad if it came across as that way. What I am saying is you can still be a sweet girl with a rebel exterior if you had a casual encounter or two in the past. At least for me her having a no strings attached relationship would not change that. I'd still view her as a sweet girl who puts on a tough exterior but who also secretly yearns for romance and true love.

I think that players of the game are free to interpret it however they like. I definitely get the appeal of young love and being each other's first and only partner. It is the ideal romance fantasy which is nice and heartwarming. The scene with Annie was my favorite from the last update for precisely this reason. If this being Alex's first time makes you like the game more, feel free to think that way. It is a very valid opinion and interpretation of her character.

But at the same time I dont think it is correct to say that one side of the argument is definitively correct or wrong. If others interpret her character differently, thats completely valid as well.

 

[mike12013]

honest. If he wanted to make it clear that she was a virgin, he would have done it given how big a deal taking nova, dalia and annie's virginity was.

that's how i view all VNs. If a big deal is made out of it, she's a virgin, if not, she's not.

Dev's just can't come out and say she's had sex before because THAT crowd will kick and scream about NTR

 

[e6mill]

that's how i view all VNs. If a big deal is made out of it, she's a virgin, if not, she's not.

Who gives a fuck? I mean really...

 

[elbo911]

My bad if it came across as that way. What I am saying is you can still be a sweet girl with a rebel exterior if you had a casual encounter or two in the past. At least for me her having a no strings attached relationship would not change that. I'd still view her as a sweet girl who puts on a tough exterior but who also secretly yearns for romance and true love.

I think that players of the game are free to interpret it however they like. I definitely get the appeal of young love and being each other's first and only partner. It is the ideal romance fantasy which is nice and heartwarming. If this being Alex's first time makes you like the game more, feel free to think that way.

But at the same time I dont think it is correct to say that one side of the argument is definitively correct or wrong. If others interpret her character differently, thats completely valid as well.

Sure, no argument there. You say that though as if any of that had been challenged by anyone over the last few pages. Which, honestly, it hasn't.
Nobody said Alex had to be a virgin for them to like the game better. That's what ChipLecsap misunderstood as well. There was no judgment at all about her being a virgin or not, it was just pondering about if it would fit her persona (as we'd perceived it) if she had already had sex before Orion or not. Not because that would make her slutty or whatever, but rather because even casual sex requires you to open up at least somewhat towards somebody, to make yourself vulnerable in a way. That aspect is what I don't think fits well with Alex' personality (as I perceive it), and that was all it was about. No shaming or judgment or whatever.

 

[Dorfnutter]

This seems like a bit of a reach to me to be honest. If he wanted to make it clear that she was a virgin, he would have done it given how big a deal taking nova, dalia and annie's virginity was. He certainly did not have a problem doing it for them.

The fact that he did not do that means there is room for interpretation. And sure maybe she was a virgin that would fit just as well with her personality to me as her having had a casual encounter in the past. I guess we just fundamentally disagree here because I dont think casual sex makes a girl any less sweet. Again taking the example of orion - I think he is a sweet person and the fact that he had casual sex with Eva and Maat in my playthrough does not change that.

I think sex is stigmatized so much here on this website which is strange to me given it is a website dedicated to porn games. I simply dont see alex sleeping around a couple of times even if it was just done as a fuck you to william as a slight against her character. Of course if she was manipulative I wouldnt like it but a no strings attached relationship? I dont think there is anything wrong with that. I dont think it makes her a slut. And I dont think it makes her a bad person. Its just sex - its no big deal unless you make it a big deal.

Then tell me this: if she was indeed sleeping around then why does she have such a guarded personality during her first encounters with Orion? You'd think that someone trying to say fuck you to her dad would try to pounce on someone like our resident horndog, but instead she looked at him as if he was gonna be Adoring Fan #351 or something and that she was not into that.

"Maybe she grew out of it" you might say. Well, even if she did word would still spread around about that, and considering how it's a slap to the Bardot name she would even try to perpetuate the rumors (even if she's no longer doing it). But no, she's been focusing heavily on her part-time jobs and her swimming, and there's nary a word or a whisper about her exploits from anyone around campus. Not something you would expect from someone who's supposed to be "sleeping around," really.

Also, lol at citing Nova, Dalia, and Annie's virginities being taken as a big deal when they basically act like pornstars after the initial penetration got done. Hardly something I would take into consideration as proof of Alex being a non-virgin, especially since this isn't the first time Cari pulled this stunt (/glances at Judie's first time back in OIAL).