VN Ren'Py Eternum [v0.9.4] [Caribdis]

[agrdtcwa]

I don't think Caribdis has the stones to kill off any girl either (or even the MC)*, but man I would respect the hell out of him if he did.

The thing is, a 'sacrifice' in a game hits very, very differently from a sacrifice in any other media.

In a film/novel/comic you are watching the MC go about his journey. In the game, you ARE the MC. His choices are yours, and thus it becomes very easy to make the player feel forced or railroaded. While a sacrifice ending can make sense and be rather authentic in other media, in a game many players often end up feeling unfulfilled (I personally believe this tendency to self insert is why so many players are so sensitive toward any sort of male competition in their games).

For instance, in the game Mass Effect 3 which- quality issues aside -had a notoriously downer ending, many players were immensely disappointed for the lack of a simple 'happy' ending. Contrast that with Game of Thrones, which had a similar lack of polish, but was also critiqued for the lack of protagonists death and/or causalities.

I'm not sure how to resolve this issue. Frankly the best way I've seen it done would be Dragon Age 1 and Fallout 3 WITH the expansion pack that modifies the game to allow player choice in their sacrifice scenes. Players must feel the weight of their choices, but also be given real, meaningful options either way.

*Of course, that may be out of the scope of the AVN genre. Let's be honest, porn is the Hallmark channel level depth in terms of character and story. Even stories with the potential for more depth, such as this one typically avoid it (as seen here in the latest episode, where there absolutely NO consequences for Orion's choices or actions).

I dont think this is an issue in the first place. Different pieces of media aim to do different things. This game is not trying to be Fallout 3 or Dragon Age Origins. Nor should it try to imitate them. I think this game knows what it wants to be - it is a fun, lighthearted and heartwarming anime-esque harem romp and it executes that incredibly well. And I think that is more than enough. In terms of the 'sacrifice' if it will even be included, I think it will just be something quite cheesy like the mc sacrificing himself for the girls then magically getting revived or something. And there is nothing wrong with that - I think something like that fits the tone of the game perfectly fine.

I dont think every game should try to be realistic or have downer routes. Sure some games may want to do that but I dont think this is the developer's vision at least for this specific game. So worrying about how to shoehorn darker routes into the game is like trying to fix a problem nobody has - not the developer since I doubt it is part of his vision nor a large majority of the playerbase.

 

[briansanders]

I dont think this is an issue in the first place. Different pieces of media aim to do different things. This game is not trying to be Fallout 3 or Dragon Age Origins. Nor should it try to imitate them. I think this game knows what it wants to be - it is a fun, lighthearted and heartwarming anime-esque harem romp and it executes that incredibly well. And I think that is more than enough. In terms of the 'sacrifice' if it will even be included, I think it will just be something quite cheesy like the mc sacrificing himself for the girls then magically getting revived or something. And there is nothing wrong with that - I think something like that fits the tone of the game perfectly fine.

I dont think every game should try to be realistic or have downer routes. Sure some games may want to do that but I dont think this is the developer's vision at least for this specific game. So worrying about how to shoehorn darker routes into the game is like trying to fix a problem nobody has - not the developer since I doubt it is part of his vision nor a large majority of the playerbase.

Yeah forget about sacrifice and think about which girls are gonna have a sex scene in the next update and enjoy the game as it goes

 

[e6mill]

Yeah forget about sacrifice

Well, I'm popping cherries (thus making them non-virgins, unsuitable for sacrificing) as rapidly as I can here...

 

[briansanders]

Well, I'm popping cherries (thus making them non-virgins, unsuitable for sacrificing) as rapidly as I can here...

only Luna is left. We need to pop her cherry asap then

 

[sexypeanut]

only Luna is left. We need to pop her cherry asap then

Caly is most likely a virgin, too

 

[torpedogoat]

That would be a really different ending for a porn game with a harem that is unattainable for the hero (except for Calypso). The hero can fuck all the girls in the virtual world, but in the real world other men make the girls' babies. NTR as the last, ultimate victim.
I think if that happens, this thread will explode and Cari will have no future as a game developer.

If you think my ending isn't compatible with a happy end with a full pregnant harem, then I think you have missed something about the mechanics of Orion moving between the worlds. Don't forget that he can take girls with him to Eternum. No doubt if he does that, they can get pregnant and give birth there.

 

[MAGO-DAG]

but man I would respect the hell out of him if he did.

Forum too much of the games, for things like dark scenes or main characters dying because of bad endings. But for Cari to focus on "sacrifice" someone from LI sounds stupid.

This man is right agrdtcwa , not all games have to be dark (unless you count the bad endings for the variety of which is non-canon.) And Eternum is primarily a dramatic Sci-Fi VN, with a touch of comedy and romance.
Cari can't just flip a harem game into a darker one with deaths lol some people had enough of a couple of bad scenes in his first game

 

[briansanders]

Caly is most likely a virgin, too

Not most likely, she is definitely a virgin with 0 sexual experience. Can't leave the princess alone. We have to help her by taking her virginity

 

[169ccjc]

When someone calls you a monster, you should act like one—make them suffer. Don’t just wallow in self-blame. Pfft, being called a monster means you’ve got power, and I’m all about that.

 

[jarisi]

I don't know if it has already been mentioned or not; I've searched for it but found nothing. But what if William is actually proud of Alex to a certain extent? I'm replaying the game, and yes, the guy is an asshole who has made his daughter's life impossible. He even slapped her in front of us, and I'm sure it's not the first time, but thinking about it coldly, maybe inside his twisted mind, he feels some pride for Alex. She's strong, independent, resourceful, and she doesn't stop at anything or anyone to get what she wants. She even has enough talent, and I imagine mental strength, to have a shot at going to the Olympics. Those are qualities that someone like William should appreciate.

Yes, all of this clashes with his worldview where he is in control and his children must do what he says, when he says it, and how he says it, but still, he should have a certain sense of pride fot her. Alex is infinitely better than his brother, who is useless and only knows how to rely on his last name to get things, and if he inherits everything from William, it will take him a couple of months to ruin it all. And I'm sure that's not good for the Bardot name. And anyone can see that, not to mention someone like William.

In summary, yes, he's a jerk, yes, he imposes things and feels no love for his daughter, but that doesn’t mean he is so stupid as not to see how his daughter really is and to appreciate the many qualities she has, which he himself promotes.

 

[AVNplayer69]

I don't know if it has already been mentioned or not; I've searched for it but found nothing. But what if William is actually proud of Alex to a certain extent? I'm replaying the game, and yes, the guy is an asshole who has made his daughter's life impossible. He even slapped her in front of us, and I'm sure it's not the first time, but thinking about it coldly, maybe inside his twisted mind, he feels some pride for Alex. She's strong, independent, resourceful, and she doesn't stop at anything or anyone to get what she wants. She even has enough talent, and I imagine mental strength, to have a shot at going to the Olympics. Those are qualities that someone like William should appreciate.

Yes, all of this clashes with his worldview where he is in control and his children must do what he says, when he says it, and how he says it, but still, he should have a certain sense of pride fot her. Alex is infinitely better than his brother, who is useless and only knows how to rely on his last name to get things, and if he inherits everything from William, it will take him a couple of months to ruin it all. And I'm sure that's not good for the Bardot name. And anyone can see that, not to mention someone like William.

In summary, yes, he's a jerk, yes, he imposes things and feels no love for his daughter, but that doesn’t mean he is so stupid as not to see how his daughter really is and to appreciate the many qualities she has, which he himself promotes.

Imo he's too much of a narcissist and too self-centered to think about Alex like that and have some pride about her

 

[SK1LAR]

First-time player, played it in a few days.... Probably the best harem game here

Alexandra is my favourite

 

[danb35]

that doesn’t mean he is so stupid as not to see how his daughter really is and to appreciate the many qualities she has

Stupid, no--whatever his faults (and they are many and serious), he isn't stupid. But he is prideful--not without some reason, but prideful nonetheless. And that, I think, prevents him from seeing it.

Moreover, "strong, independent, and resourceful" only matters insofar as it gets results, and on an objective level, it hasn't--she's living in a shithole apartment, barely scraping by on what she makes at the cafe (that does make her only the second major character in the story to be living independently (the other being Nancy)). I wouldn't agree with such a narrow view of "getting results," but I'd bet that's the view he'd take.

 

[Daermon420]

I don't know if it has already been mentioned or not; I've searched for it but found nothing. But what if William is actually proud of Alex to a certain extent? I'm replaying the game, and yes, the guy is an asshole who has made his daughter's life impossible. He even slapped her in front of us, and I'm sure it's not the first time, but thinking about it coldly, maybe inside his twisted mind, he feels some pride for Alex. She's strong, independent, resourceful, and she doesn't stop at anything or anyone to get what she wants. She even has enough talent, and I imagine mental strength, to have a shot at going to the Olympics. Those are qualities that someone like William should appreciate.

Yes, all of this clashes with his worldview where he is in control and his children must do what he says, when he says it, and how he says it, but still, he should have a certain sense of pride fot her. Alex is infinitely better than his brother, who is useless and only knows how to rely on his last name to get things, and if he inherits everything from William, it will take him a couple of months to ruin it all. And I'm sure that's not good for the Bardot name. And anyone can see that, not to mention someone like William.

In summary, yes, he's a jerk, yes, he imposes things and feels no love for his daughter, but that doesn’t mean he is so stupid as not to see how his daughter really is and to appreciate the many qualities she has, which he himself promotes.

Narcissists like William Bardot don't value independence in people they view beneath them, they see it as an annoyance. And as far as parental pride they tend to favor the children that mimic them while following orders. So he might feel some pride about Axel since that's him to a tee, a mini version of the father who treats everyone he views as beneath him like trash but follows Dads orders. Alex not so much, plus the obvious that Alex is female. Narcissism and misogyny often overlap. So even if she wasn't rebellious, Alex would probably be fighting an uphill battle as far as approval from her father goes.

Alex is infinitely better than his brother, who is useless and only knows how to rely on his last name to get things, and if he inherits everything from William, it will take him a couple of months to ruin it all.

The inheritance would normally be relevant but in this instance I believe William is seeking immortality, so not so much. It's something people have chased for ages, and in this games world it seems to be in reach. If he can become immortal like the Founder or Thanatos it doesn't matter if any of the kids are fit to inherit. Even if becoming immortal meant not being able to return to his homeworld I doubt he'd care much what happens there, he'd be too busy ruling his own corner of Eternum as an eternal god-emperor.

 

[Dorfnutter]

I believe William is seeking immortality

I don't get that vibe from him. I think he just wants to keep things the way they are but with him in charge instead of the Founder (who from his infodump in 0.7 has goals that would ultimately destroy the empire that the company has built for itself), otherwise he would've wanted Orion to hand the gems to him directly instead of someone like Thanatos.

 

[Daermon420]

I don't get that vibe from him. I think he just wants to keep things the way they are but with him in charge instead of the Founder (who from his infodump in 0.7 has goals that would ultimately destroy the empire that the company has built for itself), otherwise he would've wanted Orion to hand the gems to him directly instead of someone like Thanatos.

We don't know exactly what those gems even do yet really. If it was granting immortality I doubt he Founder and Thanatos would be after them, seeing as they're already immortal.

Though it's true we don't really know what William is after, I doubt it's anything good based on his characterization so far in the story.

 

[Dorfnutter]

We don't know exactly what those gems even do yet really. If it was granting immortality I doubt he Founder and Thanatos would be after them, seeing as they're already immortal.

Though it's true we don't really know what William is after, I doubt it's anything good based on his characterization so far in the story.

William mentioned that the Gems are the "essence of Eternum itself" and that they represent "the end of a cycle and the beginning of a new one." I'm of the opinion that there's truth to that and the gems are able to alter the very nature of Eternum at the cost of rewriting every current reality (hence the name: Gems of Doom). It would also track as to why Idriel wants Orion to gather the gems himself, as opening Acheron might require a whole lot of reality-bending for it to happen.

Also, if there's anyone searching for immortality, it could be the Founder himself, as Idriel's dialogue in 0.6 about someone not wanting to die seems to allude to him. William mentioned that the gems are able to give someone the ability to "transcend beyond time and space." If the whole of Eternum is locked in some sort of recurring cycle (as some theories suggest), then anyone seeking true immortality and retain their own being would likely want to be outside of said cycle so as to not be swept by it when it ends and another begins anew (as immortality provided after death likely doesn't mean they are immune to having their souls be regurgitated in a new cycle).

 

[Daermon420]

William mentioned that the Gems are the "essence of Eternum itself" and that they represent "the end of a cycle and the beginning of a new one." I'm of the opinion that there's truth to that and the gems are able to alter the very nature of Eternum at the cost of rewriting every current reality (hence the name: Gems of Doom). It would also track as to why Idriel wants Orion to gather the gems himself, as opening Acheron might require a whole lot of reality-bending for it to happen.

Also, if there's anyone searching for immortality, it could be the Founder himself, as Idriel's dialogue in 0.6 about someone not wanting to die seems to allude to him. William mentioned that the gems are able to give someone the ability to "transcend beyond time and space." If the whole of Eternum is locked in some sort of recurring cycle (as some theories suggest), then anyone seeking true immortality and retain their own being would likely want to be outside of said cycle so as to not be swept by it when it ends and another begins anew (as immortality provided after death likely doesn't mean they are immune to having their souls be regurgitated in a new cycle).

"The end of a cycle and beginning of a new one" and "transcend beyond time and space" doesn't sound to me like the gems break someone out of the time loop. It sounds more to me like they are what is causing the time loop, as in, they give the person that gathers them the power to rewind time to a point of their choosing, ending that cycle and starting over by transcending time and space.

My guess is that someone keeps gathering the gems and resetting time for some reason. Could be Orion himself, could be the Founder. That Idriel and the Syndicate somehow are aware of the loops, want them to end and are hoping that this iteration of Orion either succeeds in gathering them and chooses not to, or if it's the Founder that keeps resetting things Orion gathers them and prevents the reset.

Honestly all the hints given so far are too vague to have one solid explanation. It could be any number of things happening. But it's fun thinking about the possibilities of where this all might be headed.

 

[Dorfnutter]

"The end of a cycle and beginning of a new one" and "transcend beyond time and space" doesn't sound to me like the gems break someone out of the time loop. It sounds more to me like they are what is causing the [...] loop

That's what I said tho? Destruction of the current cycle and creation of a new one literally is just that. The only thing I disagree with is the idea that the loop is a time loop, as it would imply that Orion and the Syndicate keep repeating the same mistakes when it's likely that the loops have constant patterns or events but differing variables (i.e. "Bioshock: Infinite" or "The Wheel of Time"), thus making it difficult for Idriel and the Syndicate to fix (until now).

they give the person that gathers them the power to rewind time to a point of their choosing, ending that cycle and starting over by transcending time and space.

My guess is that someone keeps gathering the gems and resetting time for some reason. Could be Orion himself, could be the Founder. That Idriel and the Syndicate somehow are aware of the loops, want them to end and are hoping that this iteration of Orion either succeeds in gathering them and chooses not to, or if it's the Founder that keeps resetting things Orion gathers them and prevents the reset.

No, I'm of the opinion that it's William and Thanatos who are preventing the reset but rather want to keep the current cycle going (William because he doesn't want all his work for making Ulysses the megacorporate empire that it currently is to be erased in a new cycle, Thanatos because he likes the current Eternum and possibly because he doesn't want his mum to cease to be in a new cycle nor does he want her to pass on and never be seen again if Eternum goes back to normal), while Idriel and the Syndicate want to break the cycles and return Eternum to its natural state (which necessitates the opening of Acheron as it leads to the true afterlife that Idriel and the dead yearn for while also returning the cycle of life and death to its true state, with Eternum simply being a pathway that the dead from all realities pass through on their way to Acheron). The Founder is essentially a third party that is speeding up the end of the current cycle by making millions of normies look for the gems for his own selfish agenda (immortality), which is something Will doesn't want since it ends the current cycle and Idriel doesn't want because it would mean they lose their chance in breaking the current state of things once and for all.

TL;DR

Gems - gives power to someone to transcend beyond cycles AND cause the end and start of a cycle through their use

Idriel (and Orion should he finally get the memo) - wants to permanently end the cycles and bring Eternum back to natural state (pathway of the dead to the true afterlife)

William and Thanny - wants the current cycle (and the current state of Eternum) to keep going as they are benefiting from it

Founder - wants to use gems for becoming immortal and in the process end the cycle prematurely and create a new one

Calypso - probably gonna be the sacrificial lamb who dies for Orion's cause

 

[Johanisbear]

My guess is that someone keeps gathering the gems and resetting time for some reason. Could be Orion himself, could be the Founder. That Idriel and the Syndicate somehow are aware of the loops.

If I may, what if...

-> Eternum is actually cyclical (signs are there... ouroboros symbolism, various notes by Idriel)
-> The Founder IS Orion's previous iteration (Orion having the same powers; The Founder acting as if he knows him all too well)
-> that chose the power over the Eternum multiverse, AND not just once but repeatedly ("Heads. Heads. Heads."), losing the girls in the process
-> the previous iteration of the girls is the Syndicate (skilled, strong team, yet unable to even come close to The Founder's powers, therefore needing to fly under the radar)
-> and Idriel is either the previous iteration of Penny or modeled after her (possibly a hostage or double agent)
-> therefore when the gems are gathered, Orion has to choose: the absolute power over everything or his little harem - so this is the sacrifice he needs to make AND repeatedly did not know what to choose, so he flipped a coin BUT being the all-powerful being at that point, it subconsciously always landed on heads ("power")
-> by sacrificing his harem, he becomes the new Founder; by sacrificing his powers, worlds cease being connected and Orion goes to being just a regular man