VN Ren'Py Etlina's Principle [v0.04] [PipPoad]

[Meabe37]

This game could use a proper English writer. A lot of the dialogue lack fluidness, natural feels and clarity (especially when it dive into explanations). A lot of turn of phrase seems wrong, improper, clumsy and unnatural. ( Feels like a lot of those avns written by Spanish, Russian or Indian dudes lol)

They also are a lot of instances where the speakers name displayed are wrong. And quite a bit of typo. BTW is it Melisa or Melissa? Her name spelling keep switching.

The renders also lack clarity at times too, there is a lot going on sometimes and since everything is dark and black, it really not easy to understand what's going on visually in those parts lol

 

[boraborat]

This game could use a proper English writer. A lot of the dialogue lack fluidness, natural feels and clarity (expecially when it dive into explanations). A lot of turn of phrase seems wrong, improper, clumsy and unnatural. ( Feels like a lot of those avn written by Spanish, Russian or Indian dudes lol)

They also are a lot of instances where the speakers name displayed are wrong. And quite a bit of typo. BTW is it Melisa or Melissa? Her name keep spelling switching.

The renders also lack clarity too, there is a lot going on something and since everything is dark and black, it really not easy to understand what's going on visually lol

LOL lol LoL lol LoL lOl lol.
lOL

 

[Meabe37]

LOL lol LoL lol LoL lOl lol.
lOL

Dunno if you react like this because you disagree with me, find it funny or are pissed at me lol

If it's the later (i hope not) don't get me wrong: i liked the game and find it cool and intriguing. I was just dropping my 2cents and a constructive criticism (i tried at least). No bad agenda here, i wish the best to the devs .

 

[HiHaHo]

That thing about low amount of new content because "off ground coding" is just a bad excuse.
It really is a bad excuse for "My time management sucks. I didnt do any work for few months and now I will work for 2 weeks and claim there was a lot of work done in the background and people cant see that."


Yeah. I also like the game. I would like to support the game... but on the other hand I dont like supporting lazy ass devs who cant deliver decent amount of work.

well i personally tend to give people the benefit off the doubt before i write off something as a "bad excuse" ,after just checking the patreon and seeing only 50 supporters i'd say its reasonable to conclude the dev has a day job so dev time for the VN is limted.

even so he's posting fairly often,teasers included which do show he's proactively working on this.
plus the quality thus far has been great thus far from my experience this means longer dev times for things.

expecting someone to be working fulltime for ~250€ a month (before patreon cut & taxes) saying :

"I also like the game. I would like to support the game... but on the other hand I dont like supporting lazy ass devs who cant deliver decent amount of work."

this is the only Bad excuse in the thread IMO.

 

[PipPoad]

That thing about low amount of new content because "off ground coding" is just a bad excuse.
It really is a bad excuse for "My time management sucks. I didnt do any work for few months and now I will work for 2 weeks and claim there was a lot of work done in the background and people cant see that."

Many people comment about the lack of content, which made me genuinely wonder - what amount of content can be considered sufficient? Is there some golden rule like:
'Make at least 1000 renders, 5 animations, and write 2500 words of dialogues'?
This isn't a joke or sarcasm - I really want to know. For example, in this update alone I wrote 1100 lines of code just to implement the squad customization and map system, plus another 1000 for basic dialogues and scenes. Is that a lot or too little?

Regarding everything else - yes, I'm not the most productive person. Working 8 hours/day, 5 days/week, this update could've been done in 2-3 months. But again:

1. I'm working solo (with occasional volunteer help)
2. Game dev is creative work - I sometimes hit blocks, burnout, or life gets in the way.
3. I fully acknowledge this sucks, but it's reality. Solutions welcome.

Someone commented: 'Stop trying to make everything perfect.' Maybe they're right. I invest excessive time realizing my vision (3-act narrative structure, complex features) while players want something entirely different (more sex scenes, animations, naked girls and abilities to corrupt them). Had I made a simple linear adult VN without pretensions of depth - just being a 3D artist - things might've gone much better.

Yeah. I also like the game. I would like to support the game... but on the other hand I dont like supporting lazy ass devs who cant deliver decent amount of work."

The most valuable support would be constructive feedback — clear guidance on what to prioritize in development, and what to cut because it "matters only to me".

 

[PipPoad]

My memory is very hazy, seens the games been so long since I recall seeing an update.. But I vaguely remember hoping his sister would get infected, and he couldnt have it in him kill her, So through some ability tames her to be one of his monster girl harem girls whil seeing a way if she can be saved (or protected). Well because I wanted to see him able to tame the mosnter girls through whatever means . (not just halfs) . But that was just my thoughts, not sure where the game was going to go, but I least wanted to see him get monster girls to follow him. So im all for the transofmration stuff too, but mainly for his monster girls.

"This isn’t the project vision I want to pursue. I’m sorry it doesn’t align with yours."

 

[DrDerpington]

well i personally tend to give people the benefit off the doubt before i write off something as a "bad excuse" ,after just checking the patreon and seeing only 50 supporters i'd say its reasonable to conclude the dev has a day job so dev time for the VN is limted.

even so he's posting fairly often,teasers included which do show he's proactively working on this.
plus the quality thus far has been great thus far from my experience this means longer dev times for things.

expecting someone to be working fulltime for ~250€ a month (before patreon cut & taxes) saying :

"I also like the game. I would like to support the game... but on the other hand I dont like supporting lazy ass devs who cant deliver decent amount of work."

this is the only Bad excuse in the thread IMO.

1.) I think you have mistaken priorities. People usually dont pay money to see (social) posts or teasers. People mainly send money to see results.

2.) Also your logic is flawed. I dont need to make an excuse, why I am not sending money. It works differently. People need a reason why they should send money.

 

[DrDerpington]

Many people comment about the lack of content, which made me genuinely wonder - what amount of content can be considered sufficient? Is there some golden rule like:
'Make at least 1000 renders, 5 animations, and write 2500 words of dialogues'?
This isn't a joke or sarcasm - I really want to know. For example, in this update alone I wrote 1100 lines of code just to implement the squad customization and map system, plus another 1000 for basic dialogues and scenes. Is that a lot or too little?

Regarding everything else - yes, I'm not the most productive person. Working 8 hours/day, 5 days/week, this update could've been done in 2-3 months. But again:

1. I'm working solo (with occasional volunteer help)
2. Game dev is creative work - I sometimes hit blocks, burnout, or life gets in the way.
3. I fully acknowledge this sucks, but it's reality. Solutions welcome.

Someone commented: 'Stop trying to make everything perfect.' Maybe they're right. I invest excessive time realizing my vision (3-act narrative structure, complex features) while players want something entirely different (more sex scenes, animations, naked girls and abilities to corrupt them). Had I made a simple linear adult VN without pretensions of depth - just being a 3D artist - things might've gone much better.

The most valuable support would be constructive feedback — clear guidance on what to prioritize in development, and what to cut because it "matters only to me".

I am sorry, if my critism wasnt constructive enough.

1.) It is your game and you can make the game any way you want. Then one day when it is finished you might release it on Steam and make a big bucks. But that day is somewhere far in the future.

2.) If you want to make big money now, then you need to convince people, that you are doing decent work. Early versions of the game are most important.
People are not convinced by vague words like "I wrote 1000 lines of code". A lot of people are aware of coding and they know that with correct formating they can easily strech few hundred lines of code into few thousand lines of code. They are just numbers and you can easily change them. In the IT business people say "Lines of code are the worst metric you can use".
So what is the main metric?? People are convinced by the amount of time they spend playing the game.
Longer players wait for the new update, the more disappointed they will be, if the new update is not long enough.

3.) If you are doing the game programming as a hobby (or as a side project) and not doing it mainly for money, then I must apologise. As a hobby project it is very good game. N1

 

[HiHaHo]

1.) I think you have mistaken priorities. People usually dont pay money to see (social) posts or teasers. People mainly send money to see results.

2.) Also your logic is flawed. I dont need to make an excuse, why I am not sending money. It works differently. People need a reason why they should send money.

i'd like to hire you full time for 250€ a month and i'll expect top quality & quantity off work.
naturally as you have stated my logic is flawed ,even so i believe you'll reject this offer because this amount off wage doesn't provide enough for a sustainable lifestyle in most the world.

nobody needs a "excuse" for why they spend money or don't , but it also doesn't give you insight on how much work is or isn't put into it.
you have no Facts on how much time & effort has gone development. so you should refrain from calling someone "lazy" because from my logic this is born from your ignorance.

right now this VN is stuck in that cycle off not getting enough content & intrest to go big because off not enough time spend on it , stemming from the dev not being able to spend enough time & work on it to make it big enough because there isn't enough financial support to go full time which would be needed to get enough people onboard and sign on.

 

[PipPoad]

right now this VN is stuck in that cycle off not getting enough content & intrest to go big because off not enough time spend on it , stemming from the dev not being able to spend enough time & work on it to make it big enough because there isn't enough financial support to go full time which would be needed to get enough people onboard and sign on.

This perfectly explains the current situation. So there are two options: either leave things as they are and go with the flow, or take a risk and pour all my energy and time into promoting the project?

 

[HiHaHo]

This perfectly explains the current situation. So there are two options: either leave things as they are and go with the flow, or take a risk and pour all my energy and time into promoting the project?

personally i'd say keep going like you are right now, it seems a lot off people here are still on the fence but i wouldn't risk it and go all in on this.

i think its possible that you grow bigger with a few more updates at this pace.
Now becoming big enough to go full time is big guess as this is completely consumer driven.

i'd suggest : make the next update have a good chuck off "content" with a lewd scene or 2 for populair LI's ,whilst also doing a bit off promotion for it ( maybe reach out to some dev's with bigger community's and intertwining their news channels with yours ,getting a fan signature or two for here on f95 might also spread awareness.)
this i think will at least double the current support but ill add that this all pure speculation so take it with a grain off salt.

currently i'd compare this vn's quality mostly to Artemis which is also slower on development with pretty much 1 update a year but a fairly large content drop,naturally he has more devtime because he has broken that cycle/hurdle off not being able to justify going fulltime.

Is it possible that if you take a risk and go fulltime ,make a big update with lots off content with good quality that that will garner enough intrest & support to be able to go fulltime permanently?
Yes but i'd advise against putting all your eggs in one basket, still its your choice
slow & steady worked out fine for cosy creator's "cosy cafe" who was able to go full time recently but i don't find it easy to compare this VN to that one.

 

[Choo-choo]

This perfectly explains the current situation. So there are two options: either leave things as they are and go with the flow, or take a risk and pour all my energy and time into promoting the project?

no matter how much time you spend people always will complain about "not enough™" so you better focus on patreons and personal vision/responses/opinions

 

[RandomGuy99]

Many people comment about the lack of content, which made me genuinely wonder - what amount of content can be considered sufficient? Is there some golden rule like:
'Make at least 1000 renders, 5 animations, and write 2500 words of dialogues'?
This isn't a joke or sarcasm - I really want to know. For example, in this update alone I wrote 1100 lines of code just to implement the squad customization and map system, plus another 1000 for basic dialogues and scenes. Is that a lot or too little?

Regarding everything else - yes, I'm not the most productive person. Working 8 hours/day, 5 days/week, this update could've been done in 2-3 months. But again:

1. I'm working solo (with occasional volunteer help)
2. Game dev is creative work - I sometimes hit blocks, burnout, or life gets in the way.
3. I fully acknowledge this sucks, but it's reality. Solutions welcome.

Someone commented: 'Stop trying to make everything perfect.' Maybe they're right. I invest excessive time realizing my vision (3-act narrative structure, complex features) while players want something entirely different (more sex scenes, animations, naked girls and abilities to corrupt them). Had I made a simple linear adult VN without pretensions of depth - just being a 3D artist - things might've gone much better.



The most valuable support would be constructive feedback — clear guidance on what to prioritize in development, and what to cut because it "matters only to me".

Here's some suggestion:

• Get more hands/people to help. If not your support base will probably not grow much if at all.
• Reduce/avoid building sandbox/complex map function like the one with weapons/team selection. You may have spend lot of hours there, but hours vs appreciation by the players ratio probably not worth it. It looks fancy yes, but there is not much to see or do there at the moment. If the function will be used often in future then maybe it's worth it.
• Essentially, this should be more of novels with images/some videos in it. Trying to create complex puzzle/gameplay may NOT be worth the effort. Usually people are here for the story and smut. If they want gameplay, they will go for a proper game. This may not sit well with creatives minds but it is what it is.
• In terms of lack of content, i guess most of us go by gut feeling. It should at least be 10-15 minutes minimum of game play with normal reading speed. This includes all optional story path etc. You could spend 10K hours to develop something, if someone can run through it less than 5 minutes of normal reading speed. It will feel lack of content. Fair ? Perhaps not but this is what most people feel.
• Imagine a drama series, you waited 6 to 7 months to see the continuation of the story. In previous episode, the two main characters is at a diner. The current episode, continues on. One of the character heads to the toilet and the other get an emergency phone call. The episode ends the moment the call was picked up. It works as a cliffhanger. You will have to wait another 6 months to find out what the content of the call. You may argue it took a long time to film that scene but to the audiences, essentially no progress have happened in the story. Literally, you could skip the current episode as nothing critical have happened. There was no character development as well. This is in essence how people feel when waiting a long development time game. The scene in diner can be as fancy and using the latest cinematic technique /shooting methods. But the audience is more invested in the story. You could have used a phone to film that scene with minimal effect but if the story progressed and the audience found the content of the call etc and move on to the next phase of the story. Most audience will prefer the latter. Would you be invested in the drama if you have to wait 1 year to find out the content of the call ? Probably not

Sorry for my long winded and indirect way of explaining. Take a look at the developer Talothral. Potato level graphics but his games does pull in supporters. Lousy lewd scene as well. But he wins support with his story telling. The core of this is a novel = Story

 

[c3p0]

2.) If you want to make big money now, then you need to convince people, that you are doing decent work. Early versions of the game are most important.

And how do you do that? Most of Patreon dev's get less than $100/month. With $250/month he is better than almost half of them.

This perfectly explains the current situation. So there are two options: either leave things as they are and go with the flow, or take a risk and pour all my energy and time into promoting the project?

I agree with HiHaHo and go on with the current course. For the rest I assume he is too optimistic, cause, you can look at the Patreon Overview from the count and you see how many devs make ho much. With the $250/month you're not even rock bottom.

 

[rockstarporno69]

Will this game get a Android version?

 

[c3p0]

Will this game get a Android version?

Most likely not from the dev himself.

 

[PipPoad]

I agree with HiHaHo and go on with the current course. For the rest I assume he is too optimistic, cause, you can look at the Patreon Overview from the count and you see how many devs make ho much. With the $250/month you even not rock bottom.

Damn, this reminds me of those OnlyFans statistics. Where all the big headlines about ‘X girl made a fortune selling feet pics’ actually represent just 2% of users. The rest barely earn anything—if any at all.

 

[DrDerpington]

i'd like to hire you full time for 250€ a month and i'll expect top quality & quantity off work.
naturally as you have stated my logic is flawed ,even so i believe you'll reject this offer because this amount off wage doesn't provide enough for a sustainable lifestyle in most the world.

nobody needs a "excuse" for why they spend money or don't , but it also doesn't give you insight on how much work is or isn't put into it.
you have no Facts on how much time & effort has gone development. so you should refrain from calling someone "lazy" because from my logic this is born from your ignorance.

right now this VN is stuck in that cycle off not getting enough content & intrest to go big because off not enough time spend on it , stemming from the dev not being able to spend enough time & work on it to make it big enough because there isn't enough financial support to go full time which would be needed to get enough people onboard and sign on.

Somehow you live under illusion, that the devs cant dedicate more time to development because they are not making enough money. But that is not true.
They can easily invest more of their free time. But they have chosen not to do that.

It is my oppinion that results should come first and then people will naturally come and send their money.

But you are free to live under a delusion that you need to persuade the devs to do more work by sending them more money.

It was just my 50 cent here: I am only sending my money on Patreon to people who keep suplying decent results. But you are free to disagree with me. Send your own money to anyone you want.

And how do you do that? Most of Patreon dev's get less than $100/month. With $250/month he is better than almost half of them.

I agree with HiHaHo and go on with the current course. For the rest I assume he is too optimistic, cause, you can look at the Patreon Overview from the count and you see how many devs make ho much. With the $250/month you even not rock bottom.

Well, did you consider that majority of Patreon devs dont deserve more money than 100$ ???
Monthly crowd funding is fundamentally flawed. It encourages people to be lazy. Even if devs do almost no work, they will still receive money from the people each month.

I am not saying that every single dev has zero work ethics. I am sure that a lot of them started by trying hard. But slowly this Patreon system changed them. At first they didnt do some work for a few weeks and money still came. And so they started skipping work more and more. It is inevitable for majority of people. Majority of people dont have iron will and solid work ethics.

 

[c3p0]

Well, did you consider that majority of Patreon devs dont deserve more money than 100$ ???

No, because I don't have that much of information available, if you do good for you. Also, where I live, the median salary is $ 50 / hour. So you're saying that half of them don't work at least 2 h per month on their game?

 

[RandomGuy99]

Somehow you live under illusion, that the devs cant dedicate more time to development because they are not making enough money. But that is not true.
They can easily invest more of their free time. But they have chosen not to do that.

It is my oppinion that results should come first and then people will naturally come and send their money.

But you are free to live under a delusion that you need to persuade the devs to do more work by sending them more money.

It was just my 50 cent here: I am only sending my money on Patreon to people who keep suplying decent results. But you are free to disagree with me. Send your own money to anyone you want.

Well, did you consider that majority of Patreon devs dont deserve more money than 100$ ???
Monthly crowd funding is fundamentally flawed. It encourages people to be lazy. Even if devs do almost no work, they will still receive money from the people each month.

I am not saying that every single dev has zero work ethics. I am sure that a lot of them started by trying hard. But slowly this Patreon system changed them. At first they didnt do some work for a few weeks and money still came. And so they started skipping work more and more. It is inevitable for majority of people. Majority of people dont have iron will and solid work ethics.

I agree with this. If the product is good, support will come. It not suppose to be the other way around. If i have not mistaken, the dev is doing this project as a hobby. So i dont think he is complaining about his support numbers. I personally won't be a supporter since 6 month release window with this amount of content is not for me. The art and theme of the story is great but the slow development time kills off any interest.