Is the dev hungry when deciding a game? Previous one is pineapple and now it's apple, a big one too.
- Thread starter Bob69
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Hey guys,
as usual, I wanted to give you an update on how things are going. Right now, I’ve got a big part of the work done — I’ve finished all the animations and processed a ton of images. This time, I’m really happy with the pace I’m working at. It’s steady, calm, and step by step, with a clear vision of what’s next and where the story is heading.
In the next update, I’ll also introduce some new characters and maybe (not 100% sure yet) a new gameplay mechanic, where not just the MC, but also his amazing wife, gets to make choices. I’m starting to think that the hardest part of the work left will be writing the script and managing all the branching paths. By the way, huge thanks to everyone who offered to help me with code fine-tuning! I might take you up on that once I start working on the coding.
I’m still avoiding setting a deadline for the release, but I’m feeling optimistic about it.
Thanks again for all your support, and have a great week!
P.S. Over the next few days I'll be sending a sneak peek of renders for the upcoming update to the appropriate Patreon tiers. Thanks!
In my opinion this novel is a vast improvement over Pineapple Express which by the way enjoyed a lot.
- Jul 25, 2017
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For me it's an improvement and downgrade at the same time.
I find both of the wife's / GF's of both games just as good characters.
The teasing and spying scenes are alot hotter and better overall in this game imo .
Story here is a much better premise.
But here is my only compliant that makes it a downgrade. Playing both POV's is a tad annoying because you see some repetitive dialogue and scenes. I do love the dual POV when it shows unique scenes. I also find Martin less likeable than the main guy in Pineapple Express.
I do think this game will beat Pineapple Express once we start to get into more of the sharing and NTR content however. For now I consider Pineapple Express better but not by alot.
Aye, this feels more like an actual game, this may be his best one yet.
- Mar 16, 2018
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IDK. From a developer's point of view, it would make sense to introduce more complexity to the game, but I rather like the simple way that the "story" progresses.
If it ain't broke, don't go and try fixing it!
If it ain't broke, don't go and try fixing it!
- Nov 16, 2019
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I think immature developers don't fully understand the costly implications of breaching.
Not even big IT companies go for a heavy breach strategy for obvious reasons
Dimajio333
At the net of having same delivery team, branching will slow down the delivery, will force to release less and less content for each breach.
I don't get why amateur developers always fall in the "brenching strategy" trap
Not even big IT companies go for a heavy breach strategy for obvious reasons
Dimajio333
At the net of having same delivery team, branching will slow down the delivery, will force to release less and less content for each breach.
I don't get why amateur developers always fall in the "brenching strategy" trap
- Mar 16, 2018
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IMHO, it is their instinct to "improve" their work. Sometimes it works, but more often it crashes and burns.
- Nov 16, 2019
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I understand, but it is known in the industry that brenching code is not sustainable for very small teams.
There is a mathematical formula (I need to find it) that explain the direct proportionality between adding branches and slowing delivery pace unless you increase your team capacity.
Anyway.. .. I just reported the obvious
- Mar 16, 2018
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- Nov 16, 2019
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It is the tyranny of number... But if you think about it is easy to understand why, not changing the team capacity you will slow down the delivery pace for each breach and you will lower the quality.
Anyway let's see how this dev will manage
I'm confused. Is it breaching, branching, or brenching? I've worked for IT companies and I'm not sure what you mean by IT companies not going for 'heavy breach strategy'.
As for narrative video games having branching paths and choices, the answer is simple: player agency, replayabiliy, and variability. If you don't want branching features, you can just use the search feature and include the kinetic novel tag. You will also see throughout the forum that people don't really like kinetic novels or just having a linear story. People want to have choices and for those choices to have an impact. That's the point of interactive fiction, such as a visual novel, be labeled as a video game. People can just watch porn videos, or read porn novels if they don't want the game aspect of visual novels. The narrative is also much more compelling to see different actions made by characters, different events play out in different ways interact with the player than just one linear story. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with linear stories, I'm an avid book reader myself. But it's easy to see why players would prefer a more complex system. Personally, having paths are always better. It simply adds more depth to the game and narrative. I do agree that unprepared developers are going to have a tough time. If developers want to have a good development cycle, then they must plan ahead and write the paths before adding the art and animation. But that doesn't mean developers should be discouraged in making such a game. It simply means that they should study and learn and ins and outs before embarking such a project.
This ignores the sheer idiotic inefficiency of how visual novels produce graphics. I'm not saying you're wrong - I'm saying the discussion is more nuanced than "if you're worried about branching slowing production, then find kinetic".
Can you imagine if Skyrim were produced in way in which the developers needed to create unique artwork for every single house interior, every single tavern, hell, even turning a corner left or right in a cave would double the respective workload. It'd be difficult to get more than an hour of gameplay done. The entire power of computers in copying and recursion mostly goes to waste in AVNs (non sprite based ones anyway).
I think so far diamaggio has found a happy medium between a purely kinetic experience and prohibitively high workloads - and he's kept it up so far. Can't wait to see more characters this coming update.
- Jul 25, 2017
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yeah out of the games I played of his so far 3 so far. I always found my self cant wait for more and see what happens. So yeah I agree he does have good balance. Overall I say this game he keeps more more exicited what comes next compared to his other games. That is because he does a better job at teasing scenes in this one for me. Tho I still wish he would trim the fat of scenes or dialogue of things we have seen already when playing both MC and FMC pov but that is just me and nitpicking at that.
- Nov 16, 2019
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If you don't understand how branching strategy affect development pace and release quality maybe you work in that part of IT that fill excel files.
You can use simple math to understand how bad branching is.
You have a game wife and mother where it takes a solar year in order to advance 4 story branch for 1 day of Sofia adventure
And the outcome will be, you moaning like kids (AWAM) thinking that the developer is milking money and not delivering......
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If you were to use a medium that doesn't use much recursion and reusability, then webcomics is a better example. 3DCG VNs such as this also reuse assets like character models, clothing, etc. I don't know how a panel compares to a render, but I'd imagine producing a panel takes longer than a render, especially when renders can also be reused in a scene. I have seen 3D artists who can produce renders really quickly so I'm not sure if I should count them as the norm, but I think that if VN authors have the same work ethic as webcomic artists producing weekly art, then graphic production shouldn't be an issue. The complaint the OP highlighted is that branches = slower production, and while true, that doesn't mean the product is worse than if it is a linear story instead. From what I've seen, most of the issues with VN development cycle inefficiency comes from poor planning. The author just didn't write the story beforehand with each branches, and sub-branches. They usually get stuck because they don't know how to continue the story.
Sure, if you consider backend development a "fill excel files" job.
Jesus, AWAM has to be the worst example you can make. Despite high quality renders, and relatively better plot than most porn games, it only has 3.2 rating, way lower than the score it should objectively have. Do you know why that is? Because players keep complaining that the author is milking the game. L&P has a bad rep in this site, not because of the branches, but because the author loves to take his sweet time. It's not the fault of branching paths that is making AWAM so tediously slow, it's because the author is just slow. AWAM is actually quite linear and there aren't many branching in AWAM. Occasionally it branches into two paths but those paths quickly merge into one.
Imagine that AWAM is linear instead. That would still make the game so slow. Each update only produces 1 or 2 scenes. If you think that somehow small number of scenes is the fault of branching then you clearly don't understand how math works. A game could be linear and produce 10 scenes in one path. A game could also have 2 branches with 5 scenes each - and that's me being generous because branching paths reuse assets. They would still have the same number of 10 scenes. If AWAM is a linear game, people would still be (rightfully) bashing the author for bad development cycle.
A better example is Our Red String. It has a lot, and I mean a lot, of branches with two protagonists, male and female, each having their own branches - and it went well at the start. The author was developing the game at a steady pace, producing renders consistently. But she has suffered in the later stages because she didn't plan for the story, and she kept adding stuff from Patreon polls that complicate the story. What she got stuck at was continuing the story, and that also slowed the development of the art, because the art comes after writing. But again, the fault isn't on the system, although it certainly made things more complex, it's the fact the author didn't make the consideration when she added so many unnecessary things that further cluttered the development.
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- Mar 16, 2018
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Branching is ok, if... you have a big team working on it. Writing, Coding, and Rendering all take a lot of time.
For my money's worth, I'm for a simple faster-paced story with an end in sight.
For my money's worth, I'm for a simple faster-paced story with an end in sight.
- Nov 16, 2019
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That's it, this is my point, if you are an amateur developer or very small team inevitably the brenching will affect your outcome and customer satisfaction.
Anyway good discussion, and interesting contrasting view
It wouldn't feel right posting them yet, but for those who have seen the teasers; looks like we're about to get some more characters