VN Ren'Py Fall of the Angels [v0.0.3] [13th Sin Games]

[JonTommy]

You know, that's a good point. I probably did word that badly. What I was trying to say was that nearly all but the mothers, Fuyumi, Rosa, Jasmine, etc... are all virgins. I apologize for any confusion.

Are all of the LIs that were previously virgins STILL virgins? "Nearly all but the mothers" doesn't answer much at all.

I dunno who convinced you that the LIs needed to be rewritten to have boyfriends, but they're wrong and you shouldn't have listened to them.

 

[Juerhullycin]

I really is kind of a mess right now. The way it's handled is like it's trying to write a separate main story for every LI as if they are a MC and it just doesn't work. Something like a multi-protag game, though it isn't, as far as I know.

I wasn't a fan of the forced content of the original and I couldn't get through what is there now because of how disjoined it is, I don't know what's going on. I will wait several updates to revisit this one and if the prologue hasn't been cleaned up I'll end up passing on this one. Also if the "you have to fuck everyone and do everything anyway" scenes are still there. It would just be another KN in disguise.

Here's hoping.

I played the OG back when and skipped the first round of remakes, and I have barely any idea what happens when with those changes, no idea how a new player would understand anything at all. I have no problem when a Dev makes a kinetic game if they have to tell a story its miles better than railroaded crap with fake choices that are ignored or don't matter.

But chopping it up like that makes it worse; it combines the railroad with an incoherent story, truly the worst of both worlds. Also, changes to established LIs

 

[Skeltom]

I have no problem when a Dev makes a kinetic game if they have to tell a story its miles better than railroaded crap with fake choices that are ignored or don't matter.

They both tell a story. An actual KN is just that, a kinetic novel, and is labeled as such. But it's far worse when a dev claims to be creating a VN which is supposed to include choices for player agency but is actually just putting everything on rails. They are the same thing but one of them is just trying to hide it.

I think just reading what a dev writes is boring. I find no reason to be invested if it's out of my control. A book and a KN tell a story and that's fine, but a VN is supposed to be different. Sure, there are lewds but they are out of your control. Like being made to watch porn regardless of your preferences. To each their own, but it's not for me.

Not saying that is what is going to continue happening here, just my two cents.

 

[ppbeater]

went back to the prologue since the save is gone, & it makes sense, now theres more stuff that wasnt there before, which makes the beginning feel less rushed, felt that it was a shame the prologue seemed so cool just to be done with it so soon

 

[Azsouth]

gonna need more than 8 save pages eventually.

 

[13th Sin Games]

gonna need more than 8 save pages eventually.

This is definitely gonna be fixed for sure

 

[tmu500]

This is definitely gonna be fixed for sure

That would be a good idea.

 

[13th Sin Games]

That would be a good idea.

That and likely changing/altering the UI for it to be a bit smaller, that way it doesn't take up too much of the screen. I plan or am looking into a Chapter Selection menu, that way you can pick a certain Chapter/Episode you wanna start from... that one might take a bit of time to implement, but we'll see. Story will be the main focus, obviously

 

[Juerhullycin]

They both tell a story. An actual KN is just that, a kinetic novel, and is labeled as such. But it's far worse when a dev claims to be creating a VN which is supposed to include choices for player agency but is actually just putting everything on rails. They are the same thing but one of them is just trying to hide it.

I think just reading what a dev writes is boring. I find no reason to be invested if it's out of my control. A book and a KN tell a story and that's fine, but a VN is supposed to be different. Sure, there are lewds but they are out of your control. Like being made to watch porn regardless of your preferences. To each their own, but it's not for me.

Not saying that is what is going to continue happening here, just my two cents.

It's more the principle I'm talking about. if you want to tell a story and you make a kn then I know at least what I'm in for. Fake choices and railroading come off as deceptive to me.

 

[Skeltom]

It's more the principle I'm talking about. if you want to tell a story and you make a kn then I know at least what I'm in for. Fake choices and railroading come off as deceptive to me.

That's what I said. It's also why I don't even bother with KNs. I really wish they had an actual KN header instead of adding it as a tag to a VN. At least I can set the tag to ignore and be done with it.

 

[mandudeman]

So I played it and well my thoughts of this version vs the farther progressed First version of the game and I have to say This version is absolute trash.


Who the actual fuck cares on all this backstory like aside the maybe 3 people from it no one there is relevant for the story moving forwards as we have seen in the OG version.

And only 4 choices really.....

Where is the VN like this is just a Kinetic now at best.

Just a lame way for dev to slow progress and *add* new content that literally has no bearing for the future aside to fill in character information.


Also MC Looks meh now..


If you like it then enjoy it but its just not for me anymore with the Streamlined direction dev has moved to.

 

[Niuul]

So I played it and well my thoughts of this version vs the farther progressed First version of the game and I have to say This version is absolute trash.


Who the actual fuck cares on all this backstory like aside the maybe 3 people from it no one there is relevant for the story moving forwards as we have seen in the OG version.

And only 4 choices really.....

Where is the VN like this is just a Kinetic now at best.

Just a lame way for dev to slow progress and *add* new content that literally has no bearing for the future aside to fill in character information.


Also MC Looks meh now..


If you like it then enjoy it but its just not for me anymore with the Streamlined direction dev has moved to.

The choices didn't happen until the MC got to the town/school, although it was only ever really "do you wanna do the sex? yes/no". We're still stuck in the MCs home so it's mainly just dialogue choices to get the +1 with a potential LI. Side note: the MCs girlfriend has a super weird head shape. I can't be the only one that sees it.

Backstory helps, but it has to be written/told properly and if you read over the last few pages you'll see a lot of people agree it's not done well. It's too jumbled and random as to where it falls in the timeline of events. Needs to be reworked into a singular prologue for the girls that doesn't involve showing the MC randomly at different times after the events of chapter 1 and 2 (MC hasn't even left the castle yet but shows up in the episodic prologues)

 

[LuciferMorningstar66]

so if my understanding is correct (just from reading the comments) is that this game was re-released and now the story jumps around and makes no sense? also there are no choices and the game basically is trash right now? did i miss anything, is it worth replaying this game from this version?

 

[13th Sin Games]

so if my understanding is correct (just from reading the comments) is that this game was re-released and now the story jumps around and makes no sense? also there are no choices and the game basically is trash right now? did i miss anything, is it worth replaying this game from this version?

There isn't supposed to be any story jumping, or at the very least it was never intended to be. All I was trying to do was to allow you, as a player, to see the lives of the other characters before the MC/Sebastian arrives on Earth... which is why they are called "Prologues"...

Now, to be fair, they do take place at different points/times from when the MC's Prologue does, and where Chapter I begins, so I do understand the confusion. You can easily skip all theirs and just do the MC's, but I also get that it's not fair and makes some of the characters's backstories meaningless or confusing as to why it's jumping from one to another.

Right now, I can't physically do anything about it since I'm still doing my Annual Training for the National Guard. However, I am thinking of some possible ways to make them blend in to one another, if that makes sense. Thereby, hopefully, eliminating most if not all the jumping around that's been continuously mentioned.

One possible route is to just put all the Prologues into the main story, and just go in order, which should start with... Aliza's, I believe. I was trying to go for multiple Prologues to choose to staty with and go into Chapter I, but thay doesn't seem to be working the way it was intended.

And speaking of choices... sure... maybe some of them feel a bit pointless at first... but it'll build up, I assure you. I'm working to get back on track to where the story is suppose to be with Chapter IV. So I get it... I get the frustration... loud and clear. I'm going to try to work on making it worth your guys' time.

 

[Niuul]

There isn't supposed to be any story jumping, or at the very least it was never intended to be. All I was trying to do was to allow you, as a player, to see the lives of the other characters before the MC/Sebastian arrives on Earth... which is why they are called "Prologues"...

Now, to be fair, they do take place at different points/times from when the MC's Prologue does, and where Chapter I begins, so I do understand the confusion. You can easily skip all theirs and just do the MC's, but I also get that it's not fair and makes some of the characters's backstories meaningless or confusing as to why it's jumping from one to another.

Right now, I can't physically do anything about it since I'm still doing my Annual Training for the National Guard. However, I am thinking of some possible ways to make them blend in to one another, if that makes sense. Thereby, hopefully, eliminating most if not all the jumping around that's been continuously mentioned.

One possible route is to just put all the Prologues into the main story, and just go in order, which should start with... Aliza's, I believe. I was trying to go for multiple Prologues to choose to staty with and go into Chapter I, but thay doesn't seem to be working the way it was intended.

And speaking of choices... sure... maybe some of them feel a bit pointless at first... but it'll build up, I assure you. I'm working to get back on track to where the story is suppose to be with Chapter IV. So I get it... I get the frustration... loud and clear. I'm going to try to work on making it worth your guys' time.

Yeah, after playing them all again I think the main issue is being able to do the prologues before the main chapters. The prologue to Chapter 1 is fine, a little weird the MC dreams of Aliza since as a new player you have zero idea who that is but it's not a huge deal as you're just left asking "who was that?".

The Aliza prologue is fine up until she dreams of the MC at the school, since that hasnt happened yet in the main Chapter 1. Then of course the Lily and Jynlea prologue was also fine until it decided to rocket the story forward in to spoiler territory, first with the Liz scene then again actually bumping in to the MC.

Really needs to be somehow locked from doing the prologues until the main story chapters get to that point. Either that or they need to be reworked to cut out all of the spoiler stuff and just used to focus on the girls. Or like you said, roll them in to the main game in a place that makes sense like the main story goes along as normal until MC and Ryley are sent down then it cuts back to the Lily and Jynlea prologue stuff kind of a deal.

Or hell... leave them as they are but separate the prologues from the Chapters a little better, UI wise, then put big spoiler warnings on it. "These prologues will contain story spoilers that may or may not have happened in the main chapters yet". As I'm sure there's people who don't really care to get a LIs full backstory and prefer to see it unfold in the main story.

/2cents

 

[_doodle_]

Yeah, after playing them all again I think the main issue is being able to do the prologues before the main chapters. The prologue to Chapter 1 is fine, a little weird the MC dreams of Aliza since as a new player you have zero idea who that is but it's not a huge deal as you're just left asking "who was that?".

The Aliza prologue is fine up until she dreams of the MC at the school, since that hasnt happened yet in the main Chapter 1. Then of course the Lily and Jynlea prologue was also fine until it decided to rocket the story forward in to spoiler territory, first with the Liz scene then again actually bumping in to the MC.

Really needs to be somehow locked from doing the prologues until the main story chapters get to that point. Either that or they need to be reworked to cut out all of the spoiler stuff and just used to focus on the girls. Or like you said, roll them in to the main game in a place that makes sense like the main story goes along as normal until MC and Ryley are sent down then it cuts back to the Lily and Jynlea prologue stuff kind of a deal.

Or hell... leave them as they are but separate the prologues from the Chapters a little better, UI wise, then put big spoiler warnings on it. "These prologues will contain story spoilers that may or may not have happened in the main chapters yet". As I'm sure there's people who don't really care to get a LIs full backstory and prefer to see it unfold in the main story.

/2cents

 

[Niuul]

View attachment 4942595

The Aliza dream that the MC has sure... but it's not really foreshadowing when it's straight up giving you plot and story that happens in the future. It's not hinted at, youre seeing exactly what happens before its told in whats supposed to be the main chapter

 

[Juerhullycin]

View attachment 4942595

Foreshadowing is an indication of what's to come. like two characters see a dude and one of them says to the other, "I heard he runs with a tough crowd", and we later learn that dude is part of the Italian mob. Then the sentence was foreshadowing.

or showing a rifle over a fireplace when the home is first shown, and the same gun is later used to fend off a home invasion. That is also foreshadowing.

jumping around the story with flashforwards and backflashes is not foreshadowing and destroys the story's cohesion. There's a reason why we have different terms for foreshadowing and flashbacks/flashforwards.

 

[_doodle_]

Foreshadowing is an indication of what's to come. like two characters see a dude and one of them says to the other, "I heard he runs with a tough crowd", and we later learn that dude is part of the Italian mob. Then the sentence was foreshadowing.

or showing a rifle over a fireplace when the home is first shown, and the same gun is later used to fend off a home invasion. That is also foreshadowing.

jumping around the story with flashforwards and backflashes is not foreshadowing and destroys the story's cohesion. There's a reason why we have different terms for foreshadowing and flashbacks/flashforwards.

It's just a vision lol. A vision can be a type of foreshadowing. There is Indirect and Direct foreshadowing.

Indirect is like when Obi-Wan told Anakin he was going to be the death of him. We don't see it happen until 2 movies later. It's sometimes things you might only notice a second time, watching or reading.

Direct is when it essentially states the exact event. A good example might be if someone hears a loud yell in the forest and then says, "someone's in trouble" and you KNOW someone is in trouble, you just don't know how, and that you'll soon find out.

A vision is a type of foreshadowing. That's really all I'm saying lol. People don't have to like it because they have the right to their own opinions, of course, but I'm just pointing out what it is. I'm starting to think people are going to hate whatever he puts out lol. This update, im seeing maybe 1 positive comment here or on Discord for every 5 or 6 negative. Last non remake update and last remake update weren't even this bad.

 

[Niuul]

It's just a vision lol. A vision can be a type of foreshadowing. There is Indirect and Direct foreshadowing.

Indirect is like when Obi-Wan told Anakin he was going to be the death of him. We don't see it happen until 2 movies later. It's sometimes things you might only notice a second time, watching or reading.

Direct is when it essentially states the exact event. A good example might be if someone hears a loud yell in the forest and then says, "someone's in trouble" and you KNOW someone is in trouble, you just don't know how, and that you'll soon find out.

A vision is a type of foreshadowing. That's really all I'm saying lol. People don't have to like it because they have the right to their own opinions, of course, but I'm just pointing out what it is. I'm starting to think people are going to hate whatever he puts out lol. This update, im seeing maybe 1 positive comment here or on Discord for every 5 or 6 negative. Last non remake update and last remake update weren't even this bad.

A vision is fine, when it's vague and not directly showing what's going to happen. Being shown the MC is going to be a teacher and the exact reason for being sent down before it's even spoken about in Chapter 1/2 is not a "direct foreshadowing" that's just straight up telling you the story in a prologue where it shouldn't be. It should be about the girls like it was supposed to be the entire reason for them, not spoiling reworked story points.

That's why people are negative about it. Leave story plot and MC interactions with the LI for the main chapters and keep prologues for the girls and their brief backstory.

But that's all I'll say about it since I've said my piece and think the dev gets the point and he'll do what he feels is right for his project. Plus they're probably tired of reading it lol