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Ren'Py Family, Friends and Strangers [v2024.10] [JohnAndRich]

4.00 star(s) 68 Votes

Night Hacker

Forum Fanatic
Jul 3, 2021
4,591
22,366
No offense, but I don't feel I "owe" this site a blow-by-blow (no pun intended) description of the content of each update. Particularly when the update was posted here before it was released to all of my subscribers.

Had you looked at the previous changelog descriptions (i.e. "added chapter x") you'd have realized that there's a pattern there. So, expecting anything other than that is, IMHO, completely and utterly stupid. And, based on my experience here, which go back rather farther than yours, very few dev's give you a plot summary in the changelog. It's mostly "updates to <pick a character> path, NNN new renders." So, there was nothing "inaccurate" about the changelog. The fact that you didn't see what you wanted there is not my fault.

Look, folks. I'm telling the story I want to tell. I've said this over and over in this thread - not that newbies ever bother to read old posts. If you're taking advantage of the pirate nature of this site in order to "play" the story without contributing towards its development, you have ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT to bitch about how the story proceeds or doesn't proceed, or whine (yes, "whine") about the content you were looking for not showing up. And if you are contributing (thanks, L.Lumpy) and don't like where I'm taking it, you're completely free to stop supporting it.

Those of you who have never tried to develop a game (or a story, since I don't consider this a game) have absolutely zero idea how much of a time commitment it is, or how much the "I didn't get the content I wanted, so this game sucks" posts wear on a developer. There is a reason why so many games get to an 0.2 or 0.3 and then get abandoned. And a big piece if it is facing you in the mirror.

OK, I feel a little better now. But it's the same thing over and over and over and over again. I put out a release, and 90% of the comments here are negative. It sucks. I have vowed that I am going to finish this project, but (a) you folks - well, most of you - are making that VERY hard, and (b) I'm thinking that I'll be damned if I subject myself to this again with a subsequent game/project/whatever. It... just... isn't... worth... it!
Ignore the nay sayers. I absolutely loved this update! Great story. And as someone who has developed a full blown game (not a VN, but one coded in C), I would love to see what some of these complainers can make. Think they can do better? Than do it or STFU. heck, for me, writing a good story alone is the hard part! Setting these scenes up alone takes a huge amount of time, to say nothing of the rendering times, and if you make a mistake, you have to redo it and rerender it; been working on a VN myself and I rerendered ALL my images three times now! LOL, but I tend to be picky. I look forward to future updates as I can see that you have quality work (not just renders, but the actual story).

It's too bad some miserable people will ruin it for the rest of us, but I understand. Just know that some of us appreciate your work. I know I certainly did. This update had my emotions all over the board! hehehe

Anyhow, again, nice work, for what it's worth. (y)
 

AlfredBundy4

Active Member
Feb 12, 2021
502
1,464
Carl ripping into the mc was quite an interesting read. In a lot of cases games like this don't have an npc with that much agency, especially the best friend npc. From the many games I've played they never felt like actual people but instead just in the background and kind of like just an accessory.
That's one of the main things VNs get wrong (or the users prefer to a creepy, incel-like degree). This notion that YOU are MC and MC is infallible is in most VNs and it's lame. I appreciate it when a dev has the balls to show a MC with acful faults or NPCs that stand up to them instead of constantly bowing to them or MC having "faults" that somehow nets them more pussy.
 

Lorenz1

Active Member
Nov 1, 2017
912
2,415
First, for the whiners, this is clearly the "Parker as hero" path.

Yep, sure, of course, because “MC a victorious hero” is what a game with :”WARNING: There are strong, non-avoidable elements of blackmail, coercion and NTR (depending on your definition of NTR) in this story.” is all about.

I remind you that the worst TERRIBLE BLACKMAIL AND COERCION in the entire game so far was a bit of groping and “show me your tits” that you might expect from an Activision office. There wasn’t a single non-con sexual scene.

Yeh, I’ll probably drop the Patreon support. The HAPPY END out of nowhere is really out of touch with what the game was built around.

It’s not even that the story is bad - half of the new chapter had a decent writing and renders - but it suddenly changed the direction from what was written as an NTR bad end to “fuck you, MC won through doing nothing smart, story is over”.

Eh, someone will probably like where the game is going now. I don’t. Good luck everyone.

P.S. Rich, I like you, I really do, so let me explain some things. People in this community have a certain expectation of the game and it’s direction, formulated by the tags and warnings and released episodes. If you disagree with that framework, it is fine, but don’t read the comments here then. You might see it as a story you want to tell, people here see it as a story set up in a certain genre, with certain tags and certain elements. If you do not deliver upon them after making an impression that you are going to, you are subverting expectations and people get mad.


If you do not want to read complaints about lack of NTR porn, you should not read comments left by people on a porn game website in a NTR games section. Go to steam or other “artist” platform where expectations are different.

There is a fundamental miscommunication between you and players about what the project is about and what to expect from it.

What you essentially did is promoted the game to the NTR-loving porn game players target audience, and released it to them - f95zone, SS, Patreon, NTR tags, WARNING: NTR, porn renders, all good. You did it well enough to set up a project and keep it going. However, here is the kicker - you set it up in the F95zone comunity and pushed away all the non-ntr folks by putting on NTR tags and WARNINGS. You are left with a very special audience.

It is not that you are bad, or people are shit and full of negativity - you just attracted the wrong crowd, that you were not going for, not the target audience you wanted. You want to release your artistic vision, but people that you attracted expect to see very different result from what you are producing. It is not that what you are doing is bad, it's just what you are producing is not interesting to people who are receiving it, and they are trying to correct you and scream at you that you are doing something wrong and come off the right NTR-porn game path, which you never intended to follow.

This is the same thing as what happens to the first Big Brother, where dev wanted to go NTR voyer, and assembled a crowd of normal porn games - project died.

If you want my advice - stop coming to f95 for now, people who read this thread are not the people you are trying to attract. Better yet, divide the game at A and B as separate projects, and remove "ntr" tags from B entirely, since it is not going to happen (as obvious now). Promote it like a normal, non-ntr heroic version of the game, treat it like a blank slate, and get the crown of people who appreciate this kind of things. Create another thread for it. Stay there.

You gotta understand your audience, man. If you don't, you are only getting pushed back by negativity that comes not from the game itself, but from miscommunication and could be completely avoided.
 
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Lorenz1

Active Member
Nov 1, 2017
912
2,415
TLDR; the way this project is promoted, you had assembled a crowd of people who want from it mostly one thing - Becky and mother fucked by cops and MC's friend, more porn, more NTR. They are coming here to see it, and are mostly indulging you by reading the artistic storytelling sections waiting for the good stuff. Thing is? "Good stuff" ain't coming.

You will not hear anything good about your art and story from people who want "one thing only", cause you are not giving them what they want. And you will not get other people playing the game, because it is barriered by the NTR tags, WARNING NTR on the first page, and impression of the "more porn, more NTR" made by the images on the first page and reputation of the f95zone. People who might enjoy your art are not going to even open this thread.

If you want my advice - stop coming to f95 for now, people who read this thread now are not the people you are trying to attract. Better yet, divide the game at A and B as separate projects, and remove "ntr" tags from B entirely, since it is not going to happen (as obvious now). Promote it like a normal, non-ntr heroic version of the game, treat it like a blank slate, and get the crown of people who appreciate this kind of things. Create another thread for it. Stay there.

If you want to keep this thread happy, throw a bone of "never happened" scenes - Becky gets raped, heavy NTR, etc. That's how you get platitude from the audience currently playing your game in this thread.
 

Pi Quantum

Member
Jan 19, 2021
162
371
If you want to keep this thread happy, throw a bone of "never happened" scenes - Becky gets raped, heavy NTR, etc. That's how you get platitude from the audience currently playing your game in this thread.
Another option might be to add in a series of '10 years later' slides (one pic with explanatory text), showing what might have happened after the published endings.

Will Carl become the next Bill Gates and propose marriage to Melanie, the love/lust of his life?​
Will Parker find out the truth of his parentage and embark on a new relationship with his possible half-sister?​
Will Melissa's marriage to Richard end after her affair and blackmail sex are made public?​
Would she turn into another Denise after that?​
Will corrupt Parker and Bill eventually push a woman too far with their blackmail and be unexpectedly gunned down?​
Will corrupt Parker partner with Emily or Denise as the madam of a brothel filled with his blackmail victims?​

You could have a lot of fun with these 'what if?' scenarios and customise them to the chosen paths, much like some RPG's, but its still a lot of work.

The sad reality of game design is that no matter what you do, there's always going to be a lot of people upset that their particular fetishes weren't addressed to their satisfaction. Some devs try to satisfy everybody, but usually end up burning out under the extreme workload and plot branches.

IMO, you're doing everything right for a new game dev. You started with a solid plot outline and are willing to stick with it to the end. You're happy to hear feedback and ideas from players that you can incorporate into that, but not to the stage where feedback from the noisiest players drives plot development and destroys believability. Finishing the game and leaving a subset of players happy will still put FF&S in the top 5% of games on this site. Whether that's enough for you to subject yourself to more of this in the future is your decision. :D
 

Kukipett

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2021
1,930
3,835
In the beginning the story seemed to be good, but when we arrive in the part where the police is arresting the mother for whatever reason and nobody protests, the story totally lost any credibility.
Ok the dev wanted to really start the crap after a long prologue where not much happens, i get it but it seemed so forced and over the top that i just stopped to play.
Does the writing get any better later or is it always the same unreal situation in a totally fucked up town where the law and regulations don't exist at all?
Is this happening in some banana republic where citizens are some kind of slaves or morons?
 

Wobbly1980

Newbie
Feb 12, 2020
71
108
I didnt like this game at first, but its ever so slowly grown on me and have crept into one of my top ten liked games.
 

Mwanted

Well-Known Member
Oct 1, 2017
1,249
1,445
Becky she have a chance of being fucked by another guy or NTR?
Never gonna happen, unfortunately.
This game had a really good start and an interesting setting (I love the school one) and of course the possible path of Becky cheating has been one of the most requested since the start of the project, even I asked for it like 2 years ago and as of now there's nothing. So guess what you can expect. On the same setting I suggest "Misfits", it has really good potential.
 

desmosome

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2018
6,376
14,598
God damn... I don't often say this for NTR stories, but I really want the MC to prevail. That court scene was like a fist pump worthy situation. But that disclaimer at the end :eek:.

I think it's just the extremely grounded way the story is being told that makes me root for this underdog. Actually, I don't think this is NTR (or at least it doesn't follow any NTR convensions). It's more of a fucked up police corruption story. That might be why I am able to root for Parker on the B route. In the tropey NTR games, I'm all for the females getting mind broken and the male protag getting fucked over.
 
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corxo

New Member
Jul 20, 2019
7
11
The last episode just published, the truth has been unexpected, this turn of the story, can become a genius in later chapters or not... I trust Rick, the truth is that his work is one of the best on this website (possibly the best for me), I certainly expected something darker, but I don't lose faith in future chapters, or at least that is understood at the end of the episode with that text.

Anyway, another wait... I understand that it's normal this takes time, things don't happen on their own and require an effort, deep down what has been a few years for us, in the story we've only had about 12 chapters, no I know the total chapters, but like it or not, the story is taking the time it needs to work.

Good luck Rick, I'm sure you knew this episode was going to be controversial, and yet you've been brave and faithful to your ideas.

And one question, will the next episode be A or B? At first I'm very B, but I recognize that A is convincing me, finally thanks for your work and time.

(I hope that the Google translator has done its job well and that I am well understood)
 

desmosome

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2018
6,376
14,598
No offense, but I don't feel I "owe" this site a blow-by-blow (no pun intended) description of the content of each update. Particularly when the update was posted here before it was released to all of my subscribers.

Had you looked at the previous changelog descriptions (i.e. "added chapter x") you'd have realized that there's a pattern there. So, expecting anything other than that is, IMHO, completely and utterly stupid. And, based on my experience here, which go back rather farther than yours, very few dev's give you a plot summary in the changelog. It's mostly "updates to <pick a character> path, NNN new renders." So, there was nothing "inaccurate" about the changelog. The fact that you didn't see what you wanted there is not my fault.

Look, folks. I'm telling the story I want to tell. I've said this over and over in this thread - not that newbies ever bother to read old posts. If you're taking advantage of the pirate nature of this site in order to "play" the story without contributing towards its development, you have ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT to bitch about how the story proceeds or doesn't proceed, or whine (yes, "whine") about the content you were looking for not showing up. And if you are contributing (thanks, L.Lumpy) and don't like where I'm taking it, you're completely free to stop supporting it.

Those of you who have never tried to develop a game (or a story, since I don't consider this a game) have absolutely zero idea how much of a time commitment it is, or how much the "I didn't get the content I wanted, so this game sucks" posts wear on a developer. There is a reason why so many games get to an 0.2 or 0.3 and then get abandoned. And a big piece if it is facing you in the mirror.

OK, I feel a little better now. But it's the same thing over and over and over and over again. I put out a release, and 90% of the comments here are negative. It sucks. I have vowed that I am going to finish this project, but (a) you folks - well, most of you - are making that VERY hard, and (b) I'm thinking that I'll be damned if I subject myself to this again with a subsequent game/project/whatever. It... just... isn't... worth... it!
I'm glad you are around, especially since you help out many other devs with coding issues (I think). As far as interacting the the many troglodytes on this site, I don't wish that on any dev lol.

It comes down to possible supporter gains via community engagement vs keeping your sanity. It will depend on each dev, but unless maximizing profits is the ultimate goal, just ignoring the game thread might be healthier for most devs, tbh.
 
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Pi Quantum

Member
Jan 19, 2021
162
371
God damn... I don't often say this for NTR stories, but I really want the MC to prevail. That court scene was like a fist pump worthy situation. But that disclaimer at the end :eek:.
Having just played through it myself, hell yeah! Rich loves screwing with our preconceptions, so he's now got me sympathising with Emily after wanting to see Mrs Vandermeer go down, which is a complete reversal of my original feelings. I share your fears about the disclaimer, because if Parker wins, who loses? Is his relationship with Becky gone forever, or is Emily's new-found trust in males about to be irrevocably shattered - with her wanting revenge on both? Can he convince both girls to join a harem?!

Parker is a most unusual teen if he can distinguish between porno and real life, making that the best line of the update for me - although the ones about the man-hating prosecutor came close. :p
 
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Apr 18, 2018
357
681
I apologize if this was already answered here, but I did try looking for the answer myself, before asking: is there content, or intent of content, of sexual stuff happening between MC and his mom?
 
4.00 star(s) 68 Votes