Ren'Py Four Elements Trainer [v1.1.6b] [Mity]

[Deleted member 436513]

I like MITY, they deserve the benefit of the doubt I think. But I also think people's standards are so low from other devs, they refuse to call any other devs out as they've seen so much worse before. You've become desensitized to the delays.

On the one hand, they're getting paid more than enough for people to be annoyed at the delays. You wouldn't get away with this in a normal job, you'd be out the door for not putting up any substantial work.

Though maybe you see Patreon as less of a business and more of us supporting our favorite creators. Maybe this is acceptable, as we're supporting them as people, not as a business.

My belief probably leans toward the former. These patreon pages are setup to be businesses and jobs to the people behind them, people are entitled to professionalism and consistent work if they support them.

To put it another way, I personally wouldn't be happy with the organizational side of things if I was MITY. As in, if I was the actual person with the exact same time and resources available to me, I would be embarrased by the current state of things and me not having improved it yet. It wouldn't be up to MY standards, so I'm annoyed by someone else not doing it either (especially as someone making a game with way less time and resources on my hands).

Most of what you're gonna see on F95 (or the internet in general) is people either blindly defending a dev and calling any detractors ignorant, or the polar opposite of shitting on them with the worst possible interpretation of things and unrealistic expectations. IMO it's still fair to say that MITY is probably one of the most reasonable devs in "the biz", at least compared to what else is out there. He's like a good intentioned guy who's trying his best but fucks up, as opposed to someone running a scam who genuinely couldn't give a shit, or the arrogant and hostile type. What I'd fault him for is not putting the money he gets to good use (and seemingly being okay with that), which I think is fair criticism as well.

 

[WindIsHowling]

To put it another way, I personally wouldn't be happy with the organizational side of things if I was MITY. As in, if I was the actual person with the exact same time and resources available to me, I would be embarrased by the current state of things and me not having improved it yet. It wouldn't be up to MY standards, so I'm annoyed by someone else not doing it either (especially as someone making a game with way less time and resources on my hands).

Most of what you're gonna see on F95 (or the internet in general) is people either blindly defending a dev and calling any detractors ignorant, or the polar opposite of shitting on them with the worst possible interpretation of things and unrealistic expectations. IMO it's still fair to say that MITY is probably one of the most reasonable devs in "the biz", at least compared to what else is out there. He's like a good intentioned guy who's trying his best but occasionally fucks up, as opposed to someone running a scam who genuinely couldn't give a shit, or the arrogant and hostile type. What I'd fault him for is not putting the money he gets to good use (and seemingly being okay with that), which I think is fair criticism as well.

Completely agree, but it is worth correcting that it's a two man team at this point. MITY is no longer just one guy.

 

[Deleted member 436513]

Completely agree, but it is worth correcting that it's a two man team at this point. MITY is no longer just one guy.

Yeah, and that's also kind of the elephant in the room. I don't know where MITY lives or how much of that number gets taxed away, but 20k is more than what most people I know make in a YEAR. I find it amazing that he still hasn't hired a guy to at least do cleanup work, or backgrounds, or writing, or spell checking, SOMETHING. I mean fuck, find some college student who's happy to do it for 500. I'd even offer to do it myself for free if the current book wasn't 90% about Korra and content I have zero interest in.

 

[acue]

I don't really understand where you're getting the expectation that patreon money will be redirected back into the project. It was never explicitly stated and most of these trainers are from amateur devs so I don't think they have the project experience to necessarily even know how to reinvest into the dev.

Maybe it's just because I've been following this scene for a while but anybody that has any preconceived notions of professionalism is naive.

I have little doubt we'll get something by the end of the month but how much content there will be is questionable.

 

[Deleted member 436513]

I don't really understand where you're getting the expectation that patreon money will be redirected back into the project. It was never explicitly stated and most of these trainers are from amateur devs so I don't think they have the project experience to necessarily even know how to reinvest into the dev.

Maybe it's just because I've been following this scene for a while but anybody that has any preconceived notions of professionalism is naive.

I have little doubt we'll get something by the end of the month but how much content there will be is questionable.

You'd think they would at least attempt to. DarkCookie for instance has an entire office working under him at this point (with a larger budget, but still). And FET has been officially in development for over 3 years now.

 

[reaperxii]

I don't really understand where you're getting the expectation that patreon money will be redirected back into the project.

I mean if the coder is overworked and stressed as Mity says he is wouldn't it just make sense to use some of that money to hire more people to relieve that stress? Sure they've never said that's what they'll do but I don't get why you can't understand why people would think that

 

[ogr blanc]

I mean if the coder is overworked and stressed as Mity says he is wouldn't it just make sense to use some of that money to hire more people to relieve that stress? Sure they've never said that's what they'll do but I don't get why you can't understand why people would think that

thing is, a coder is a very pillar role in a game, or any software development. even if he does bring someone else, it will take a LONG time to get up to par with the code, and because its an evolving code, it mean, his additions may make the OG coder job more demanding.

of course, he could find someone who is able to quickly get up to par, but i doubt it will be that easy. still, better late than never, and i do belive bringing someone else might be a better solution anyway.

 

[Deleted member 436513]

thing is, a coder is a very pillar role in a game, or any software development. even if he does bring someone else, it will take a LONG time to get up to par with the code, and because its an evolving code, it mean, his additions may make the OG coder job more demanding.

of course, he could find someone who is able to quickly get up to par, but i doubt it will be that easy. still, better late than never, and i do belive bringing someone else might be a better solution anyway.

The more cynical among us would tell you that he should've fired his coder outright about 2 years ago, and replaced him with someone more competent.

 

[WindIsHowling]

The more cynical among us would tell you that he should've fired his coder outright about 2 years ago, and replaced him with someone more competent.

The coder started the project. The artist is the "new" guy who joined a little into book 1 I'm 90% sure. Regardless, they should hire someone. FETs code is already a mess which probably doesn't help dev times. Hiring someone to work on it wouldn't be that bad, even if they were just working on a more clean seperate branch that slowly merged into the main game. The coder's writing isn't bad at all, I reckon they could save so much time by just leaving him to write. There's no shortage of python devs that could do Ren'Py, it's hardly rocket science.

 

[Ratnedalu]

The coder started the project. The artist is the "new" guy who joined a little into book 1 I'm 90% sure. Regardless, they should hire someone. FETs code is already a mess which probably doesn't help dev times. Hiring someone to work on it wouldn't be that bad, even if they were just working on a more clean seperate branch that slowly merged into the main game. The coder's writing isn't bad at all, I reckon they could save so much time by just leaving him to write. There's no shortage of python devs that could do Ren'Py, it's hardly rocket science.

Other way around.

 

[Deleted member 436513]

The coder started the project. The artist is the "new" guy who joined a little into book 1 I'm 90% sure. Regardless, they should hire someone. FETs code is already a mess which probably doesn't help dev times. Hiring someone to work on it wouldn't be that bad, even if they were just working on a more clean seperate branch that slowly merged into the main game. The coder's writing isn't bad at all, I reckon they could save so much time by just leaving him to write. There's no shortage of python devs that could do Ren'Py, it's hardly rocket science.

You could also have a pretty clean division of labor by hiring people for different tasks, even with a project of this scope.

Somebody could be hired to go back and work on refactoring the previous games, thus having the ability to add things like a scene replay system or fix bugs without affecting current content at all, somebody could be hired purely to do repetitive busywork (assigning sprites to image files, setting up the frames of animation loops, cropping things out in Photoshop, layering, etc.), somebody else could work as an actual full time writer just on the story's flow and the dialogue, the main coder could work on the major systems (map navigation, day/night cycles, inventory, game progression, etc.), yet another programmer could work separately on something like the CCG minigame, you could hire another person for finding/composing/editing sound effects and music, another artist could come on just to do menial, boring technical art like cleanup work, coloring, doing inbetween frames and so on, you could hire someone else purely to make backgrounds, you could have yet more people doing things that require a different style (a segment where the characters need chibi sprites or detailed splash art), or someone doing general graphic design work like making UI elements.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

 

[F1forhalp]

geez. sometimes i get the impression that like 1/3rd the ppl in this thread are jobless coders, and the rest are ppl who keep saying "oh but he gets money" aren't even patrons. /rant
if you work along with a numbers guy, over time you get aligned in a certain way. he reads your ideas, not the paper. you both get the others' way of thinking, so, you know how to tell him do this, and he knows what you didn't tell. alignment; you can't just swap that. it would take time, or it would not work. or anything inbetween.
for patrons, if you're that unhappy with the update speed, you can just change your amount easily.
$0.02 added

edited a typo

 

[Deleted member 436513]

geez. sometimes i get the impression that like 1/3rd the ppl in this thread are jobless coders, and the rest are ppl who keep saying "oh but he gets money" aren't even patrons. /rant
if you work along with a numbers guy, over time you get aligned in a certain way. he reads your ideas, not the paper. you both get the others' way of thinking, so, you know how to tell him do this, and he knows what you didn't tell. alignment; you can't just swap that. it would take time, or it would not work. or anything inbetween.
for patrons, if you're that unhappy with the update speed, you can just change your amount easily.
$0.02 added

edited a typo

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at. If you have the budget and the opportunity to hire a third person to work on your game, on an entirely separate task that doesn't require any "sixth sense" or stepping on anybody's toes, why wouldn't you?

It would benefit everybody. MITY and his friend would have less work to do, the game would be higher quality (thus leading to more patrons and more players), updates would be more frequent, and someone would get a job. Everybody wins. I don't get this attitude of "the two of them have been doing it alone so there's no possible room for improvement, just pay them less". Any indie studio would be absolutely ecstatic at the idea of having the money to employ THREE TIMES AS MANY PEOPLE.

 

[Jandulsy]

Hope the new version is out till the end of the month...

 

[Nixi~]

I keep replaying Azula's story hoping there is more content but there never is...

 

[Lilsmkr]

Can anyone help me out? I'm on the earth nation part and at the moment i'm stuck on doing the crab fight with shady dude so i can get the map. My issue here is any time i start a crab battle with him or the old man, my game just keeps crashing. Anyone know how to fix this issue or know a way around this so i can get the map and finish this story.

 

[Dardanit]

STOP POSTING UNTIL SOMETHING HAPPENS!!!!!!

I hate coming here seeing that stupid bell with more than 3 messages just to see you people still talking about that stupid delay nonsense. Let them finish the build

 

[IDontPay]

STOP POSTING UNTIL SOMETHING HAPPENS!!!!!!

I hate coming here seeing that stupid bell with more than 3 messages just to see you people still talking about that stupid delay nonsense. Let them finish the build

Hello!

 

[darkgunner079]

Honestly I wish I could take 3 months off of work with paid leave just because i felt stressed

 

[DaisyChained]

Honestly I wish I could take 3 months off of work with paid leave just because i felt stressed

There is such a thing as getting burned out and from experience that shit takes a long ass time to recover from. Long term sleep debt + a stressful lifestyle = being burned out = needing to recover. Burnout is actually an official medical condition now.

It's pretty simple in your case, if you're a patreon and not happy with the pace of the content then cancel your sub until you're satisfied.
If you're however not paying, don't be a smug twat and be grateful when ever your free content arrives...