VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [Ch. 9 v0.60c] [NeonGhosts]

[HentaiKami]

I must be missing something, because I didn't think what Vaughn did was fucked up. No one forced her to do anything, right? He offered to pay her money if she'd get tattoos and do voyeur stuff or w/e, and she could've declined, but she agreed. If he was fully aware of her situation, sure, I'll grant you that he was being selfish. But if he wasn't, I would argue he did nothing wrong.

To use an analogous situation, I don't think paying a prostitute for sex is fucked up, yet she's likely doing the same thing as Nicki, partaking in an act she probably doesn't really wanna do but for the fact it makes her money... I hope no one would fool themselves into thinking the escort actually wants to fuck them (and for full clarity, I'm talking about consensual prostitution ofc, no sexual slavery or human trafficking crap).

Maybe if I play that scene again, I'll get a different reading, but my MC could actually learn a lot from this Vaughn guy on how to treat a woman

It was mostly that Vaughn seemed to realise how desperate Nicki was and basically manipulated someone that was in really vulnerable position with little other alternatives to do what he wanted.

To use your example of paying prostitute for sex, it's the difference of using prostitute that is earning enough and has the ability to really choose their clients, compared to using prostitute that is desperate for money to feed themselves and their family and can't really choose who the client is. One can safely ignore any suggestions of fetishes/kinks that sound worrying to them or leave if the customer seems somehow dangerous, the other has to constantly calculate the risks of leaving&declining and potentially their kids going hungry. In both cases it's technically consensual prostitution, but in other case, the situation makes it highly questionable at least.

 

[Meridian]

It's the "I pay you so you do what I want even if you don't want to" that bothers me

But this description fits like 90% of employers.

along with the "don't leave, I'll pay more".

Actually nevermind, 90% of employers are worse than that.

 

[CrazyRabbit]

But this description fits like 90% of employers.

Actually nevermind, 90% of employers are worse than that.

Tell me about it.... they don't even offer to pay for your tattoos or call you their "muse"

 

[Doobiedoobiedoooo]

Nice dig. However, I counter with, imagine enjoying the hell out of a great game but knowing what words really mean and having your enjoyment and immersion broken due to incorrect word usage. When words are used wrong it is jarring to those that know what they really mean. I pointed out that I've run into this a lot, in a lot of games and other places, what I didn't say was that those other places and games, the content was not nearly as quality as this game, therefore I did not see the sense in bringing it up as those creators were already struggling. This creator on the other hand has turned out amazing work.

Really felt like a dig? Thought we'd both chuckle and you'd pull back from the trees and see the forest a little.

 

[Doctor Shark]

Overly direct question but what does Cassie add to the story? There are already six teen LIs (Gabby, Brittani, Viola, Pepper, Mason, and Jamie) and the "person you grew up with but never got with but now you're rich" role is Nicki's arc. Maybe if she was introduced in the prologue or you had a phone call with her between Chapters 1 and 2 to introduce her I'd feel better about it. As is, between the conversation with Ashe/dream, shopping for the bathing suit, and perving on her social media it feels like this reunion is built up to be a big deal without selling me on it and it's just incest/fauxcest fanservice that doesn't mesh very well with the other stories being told.

 

[NeonGhosts]

Overly direct question but what does Cassie add to the story? There are already six teen LIs (Gabby, Brittani, Viola, Pepper, Mason, and Jamie) and the "person you grew up with but never got with but now you're rich" role is Nicki's arc. Maybe if she was introduced in the prologue or you had a phone call with her between Chapters 1 and 2 to introduce her I'd feel better about it. As is, between the conversation with Ashe/dream, shopping for the bathing suit, and perving on her social media it feels like this reunion is built up to be a big deal without selling me on it and it's just incest/fauxcest fanservice that doesn't mesh very well with the other stories being told.

It's kind of tough to explain what I see her role as, without spoiling story stuff.. But, the persistent notion that MC is isolated or lonely is rooted in his relationship with his family, and she'll be a window into that.

 

[Alfred the Fallen]

I disagree that MC doesn't need character development.

I didn't say that he doesn't need character development. I said that this particular instance doesn't feel like character development. It's not a reasonable mistake he's making here. It's several huge mistakes all bundled up together, and only a complete moron would've done what the main character just did.

One of the first things we learn about Gabby is that she hates being treated like a child. So it doesn't take a genius to figure out that she probably wouldn't want you running around and trying to solve her problems for her without any input from her at all. This is also reinforced by the scene in the bookstore where she spots you as she's talking to Brittani where "Gabby shoot you a look that tells you to stay out of it."

Finally, just a little note on why I don't allow for huge story divergences, based on preference. For instance, would it have made sense to provide an alternative for MC to the photoshoot with Brittani?

I'm not saying that there should've been alternate routes. I'm saying that the one route we got should've been done better. All you needed to do was have the main character talk to Gabby first. Have her involved in the plan so that when it blows up in their face, it's a problem they can deal with together. This would've removed his biggest mistake, which was keeping everything hidden from Gabby, and it would've shown that he was thinking of her.

The way you have things set up now, it looks like Gabby is an afterthought. The main character didn't even know about the recordings until after he made up the bullshit about a calendar as an excuse to see Brittani. He is using the shoot to go chasing after Brittani, and he just sort of makes a half-assed attempt to help Gabby in the middle of it.

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

Ah, you've made your MC into a Luthor-Palpatine (Lex Palpathor ? ) ; yeah maybe the Vaughn guy isn't that bad compared to Evil MC

It's the "I pay you so you do what I want even if you don't want to" that bothers me ; along with the "don't leave, I'll pay more".
Including the fact that she had no other alternative given how broke she was.

Dunno, it doesn't sit well with me but, like you, maybe if I play the scene again it'll mitigate how I see the guy.
Ultimately, we'll be fixed only when the guy returns ; and I do believe he will.

It was mostly that Vaughn seemed to realise how desperate Nicki was and basically manipulated someone that was in really vulnerable position with little other alternatives to do what he wanted.

To use your example of paying prostitute for sex, it's the difference of using prostitute that is earning enough and has the ability to really choose their clients, compared to using prostitute that is desperate for money to feed themselves and their family and can't really choose who the client is. One can safely ignore any suggestions of fetishes/kinks that sound worrying to them or leave if the customer seems somehow dangerous, the other has to constantly calculate the risks of leaving&declining and potentially their kids going hungry. In both cases it's technically consensual prostitution, but in other case, the situation makes it highly questionable at least.

You both make compelling points. I don't know, it's complicated I suppose. I've actually never been with a prostitute, so maybe there's a dynamic I'm not aware of. But, certainly, if I ever found myself in the situation to get sex from someone desperate for money, I couldn't do it no matter how horny I was, would feel too icky and fucked up. So, I would just give them the money. (goes without saying that fapping to power fantasies is, as I'm sure we know, completely different to real human lives being involved)

But, at the same time, if I was in Nicki's situation, I wouldn't be selling my body for money, I would just get a regular job (if she had a drug addiction or something, though, that would be different to me I think). I'm a big proponent of personal responsibility, i.e., you should own your own decisions, and doing all that was certainly her decision, ultimately. So, as you can imagine, those two philosophies I'm trying to follow (own your actions and don't take advantage of others) are crashing into each other here, and I'm not totally sure how to feel. Does that make sense?

I guess I could reasonably say they both did wrong here? He took advantage (though he didn't treat her like shit or anything or abuse her, right? nothing remotely how those porno shoot thugs or dark MC treats her), and she put herself in a situation that hurt herself/lowered her self-worth when she could've done otherwise. Obviously Vaughn is the greater of the two evils here, I'm just trying to say I don't think Nicki is necessarily innocent and she's certainly old enough to make her own decisions. Either way, good convo, cheers!

 

[CrazyRabbit]

You both make compelling points. I don't know, it's complicated I suppose. I've actually never been with a prostitute, so maybe there's a dynamic I'm not aware of. But, certainly, if I ever found myself in the situation to get sex from someone desperate for money, I couldn't do it no matter how horny I was, would feel too icky and fucked up. So, I would just give them the money. (goes without saying that fapping to power fantasies is, as I'm sure we know, completely different to real human lives being involved)

But, at the same time, if I was in Nicki's situation, I wouldn't be selling my body for money, I would just get a regular job (if she had a drug addiction or something, though, that would be different to me I think). I'm a big proponent of personal responsibility, i.e., you should own your own decisions, and doing all that was certainly her decision, ultimately. So, as you can imagine, those two philosophies I'm trying to follow (own your actions and don't take advantage of others) are crashing into each other here, and I'm not totally sure how to feel. Does that make sense?

I guess I could reasonably say they both did wrong here? He took advantage (though he didn't treat her like shit or anything or abuse her, right? nothing remotely how those porno shoot thugs or dark MC treats her), and she put herself in a situation that hurt herself/lowered her self-worth when she could've done otherwise. Obviously Vaughn is the greater of the two evils here, I'm just trying to say I don't think Nicki is necessarily innocent and she's certainly old enough to make her own decisions. Either way, good convo, cheers!

Yep, Nicki too has a part of responsibility here. She was strung for cash and a regular job wouldn't have really cut it so she was stuck with the Vaughns plan. But yeah, she could have come to us ; much less degrading (at least with Saint!MC) and a relationship saver. But she was afraid to lose him and yet did every choice that increased the rift between her and MC...

Her most important fuck up tho (cause everything else could be blamed on the panic, the hopelessness of her situation) was to go back to Brent that day.... the guy smells like shit-fuckery from 10 miles in every direction, come on ! That allowed him to spend the money, put every problem on her and take whatever little else she had left...

So yes, Vaughn is the bigger bad in the situation for taking advantage and Nicki made a combo of bad decisions that opened the door to Vaughn.
Also the loan shark is much worse and took full advantage ; she's the victim there.

Loved to talk about with you all ; if anything she's a good character, like plenty of girls in this game.

 

[Avaron1974]

she's the victim there.

Nicki is growing on me and i'll probably do her route after my main girls but she's no victim.

The game does it's best to paint that picture but even as a woman I can't let her pass the buck on this one.

Every problem she has, she brought on herself. She made one bad decision after another and stayed wityh a guy she knew was bad for her.

She had options, she picked the wrong ones. It's easy enough to say they took advantage of her and they did to a certain degree. Problem is they only took advantage because she put herself in the position to be taken advantage of.

She could have left dickhead on the first day she came to the MC for money. She could have gone to the MC when dickhead spent everything they had. She could have gone to the MC when she got back from dickhead 2's.

She made a string of bad deicisions but make them she did.

I go hard on Nicki for the same reason I go hard on "modern women". Neither of them take responsibility for their own shit and own up to their mistakes.

Nicki fucked up, repeatedly. She's suffering and i'm more than happy to help her out but she's suffering through choices she made.

 

[HentaiKami]

Her most important fuck up tho (cause everything else could be blamed on the panic, the hopelessness of her situation) was to go back to Brent that day.... the guy smells like shit-fuckery from 10 miles in every direction, come on ! That allowed him to spend the money, put every problem on her and take whatever little else she had left...

Iirc, she actually decided to break up with Brent after the night with MC, especially if MC is good guy towards her. She just had made joint account earlier during the relationship with Brent, while Brent was basically manipulative and abusive arsehole during their relationship. It allowed Brent to use the money MC deposited on Nicki's account and if you also remember the loanshark wasn't really that bothered that Brent used Nicki's signature for the loans. Also if you consider the emotional abuse Brent had made Nicki go through, her actions are somewhat understandable. Basically Brent had eroded her confidence and self-image during their relationship, so Nicki had serious fears of what might happen with MC after that night. She wasn't basically thinking straight during the time she was away from MC.

 

[NewTricks]

I was all set to not like Brittani but she surprised me. She does seem to have a form of personality disorder, but nobody can deny that she was the highlight of the bad guy path this time around. She sure knows how to get into a role...

Spoiler: as well as other things!

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[NeonGhosts]

I'm not saying that there should've been alternate routes. I'm saying that the one route we got should've been done better. All you needed to do was have the main character talk to Gabby first. Have her involved in the plan so that when it blows up in their face, it's a problem they can deal with together. This would've removed his biggest mistake, which was keeping everything hidden from Gabby, and it would've shown that he was thinking of her.

The way you have things set up now, it looks like Gabby is an afterthought. The main character didn't even know about the recordings until after he made up the bullshit about a calendar as an excuse to see Brittani. He is using the shoot to go chasing after Brittani, and he just sort of makes a half-assed attempt to help Gabby in the middle of it.

I get where you're coming from, but can you see how even this one small change makes Brittani's event hinge on Gabby, in a way my version doesn't? So, what if a player isn't pursuing Gabby romantically, and they're just friends? What if he's on a negative path with her? How do I get from A --> B for a player that wants to romance Brittani and not Gabby, in a way that doesn't involve me writing/coding/rendering a whole new scene branch, just to arrive at the same place?

I appreciate the feedback. But, this is the same criticism I tend to get every so often, which is basically, "Well, why can't MC do what I would've done?" And the short answer is, "Because I'm not in your head." The longer answer is, "I'm one guy and can't provide infinite options."

I'm telling a story, and in that story, sometimes characters will make certain choices, because it's good for drama. I'm writing characters, not ciphers.

 

[Avaron1974]

until after he made up the bullshit about a calendar as an excuse to see Brittani.

Second time you've said this now so i'll repeat, the calendar is an actual thing.

He discussed it with Nicki. They are making a callendar and Brit is part of it.

 

[GßimReaper]

What kind of incest here?? Sister mother or cousin?

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

Nicki is growing on me and i'll probably do her route after my main girls but she's no victim.

The game does it's best to paint that picture but even as a woman I can't let her pass the buck on this one.

Every problem she has, she brought on herself. She made one bad decision after another and stayed wityh a guy she knew was bad for her.

She had options, she picked the wrong ones. It's easy enough to say they took advantage of her and they did to a certain degree. Problem is they only took advantage because she put herself in the position to be taken advantage of.

She could have left dickhead on the first day she came to the MC for money. She could have gone to the MC when dickhead spent everything they had. She could have gone to the MC when she got back from dickhead 2's.

She made a string of bad deicisions but make them she did.

I go hard on Nicki for the same reason I go hard on "modern women". Neither of them take responsibility for their own shit and own up to their mistakes.

Nicki fucked up, repeatedly. She's suffering and i'm more than happy to help her out but she's suffering through choices she made.

The loan shark guys, though? They tried to beat and rape her, didn't they? You have to agree she was 100% the victim in that situation and that the loan shark guys were scumbags; they'd be in jail if she reported them. That's the situation where we agreed she was undeniably the victim there. The other situations (minus dark MC route ofc) are very arguable, as I guess we've all already demonstrated lol Lots of mistakes and poor decisions + people taking advantage of said mistakes and poor decisions = a frothy soup of confused blame

What kind of incest here?? Sister mother or cousin?

Sister No content with her yet, though, just setup. I think dev said her majesty will arrive in the next chapter or the one after that (can't remember, sorry)

 

[AKADeadLord]

This man is playing the world's largest fucking game of Russian roulette I've seen. Do you see what that is? That's a free floating structure just hanging off the side of a building with no support beams.

I don't know who to say has more balls the architect, the guys that approved it, or the MC himself cause no way in fuck would I walk into that fucking room.

Game is great though I enjoy it a lot characters are definitely on the better side when it comes to having actual personality and the models are nice as well.

 

[Ragnar]

I get where you're coming from, but can you see how even this one small change makes Brittani's event hinge on Gabby, in a way my version doesn't? So, what if a player isn't pursuing Gabby romantically, and they're just friends? What if he's on a negative path with her? How do I get from A --> B for a player that wants to romance Brittani and not Gabby, in a way that doesn't involve me writing/coding/rendering a whole new scene branch, just to arrive at the same place?

I appreciate the feedback. But, this is the same criticism I tend to get every so often, which is basically, "Well, why can't MC do what I would've done?" And the short answer is, "Because I'm not in your head." The longer answer is, "I'm one guy and can't provide infinite options."

I'm telling a story, and in that story, sometimes characters will make certain choices, because it's good for drama. I'm writing characters, not ciphers.

That's me! I have gone friendship route with her because she's too much of a kid for my tastes.
Brittani on the other hand can team up with Ashe or Nicki on my bed

 

[LeviaDK]

Can't access the violent path. Not that I really want it, but I wonder why it isn't there when advertised?

 

[NeonGhosts]

This man is playing the world's largest fucking game of Russian roulette I've seen. Do you see what that is? That's a free floating structure just hanging off the side of a building with no support beams.

I don't know who to say has more balls the architect, the guys that approved it, or the MC himself cause no way in fuck would I walk into that fucking room.

Game is great though I enjoy it a lot characters are definitely on the better side when it comes to having actual personality and the models are nice as well.

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