VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [Mini-Sode: Blue Valentine] [NeonGhosts]

[NewTricks]

Harem games aren't realistic, but neither are NTR games, femdom games, incest games, corruption games, or any of the other fantasies people enjoy in games like this. Friends in Need is not an exception to this. Games have a certain conceit, a compact that is made between the creator and the audience, to indulge in a certain fiction for the purpose of enjoyment. This is the ride, you can either get on board or get left on the curb. Friends in Need has for the most part taken a path of verisimilitude, not really trying to conceal that Guy is an "everyman" character. It's right there in the name. He's just a guy. That is central to his appeal. While we are rooting for Guy's success, we don't want it to be so easy. So far the game has a good balance of creating tension between the characters.

Introducing the conceit of your average harem game isn't going to improve the game and might be too absurd for the audience to accept. It will break the compact that was built between the author and the audience. When I am teaching creative writing I instruct that building this compact is the most important portion of a story. Your audience will accept a great deal of absurdity just as long as they know that is the deal. They will even accept bad plots, bad scenes, bad characters, and nonsensical ass pulls, just as long as it is in service of honoring the deal that was silently made when you began the story. Most of the failures in popular entertainment recently have been the result of breaking the deal.

So to sum it up, how many girls Guy ends up with at the end isn't as important as having each individual story reaching a conclusion that is right for that individual character. The compact that was built wasn't "watch this guy get a lot of girlfriends" it was rather that each of the girls (and the boy) have a goal to reach or a problem to solve. Guy is going to help them do it, and maybe help himself along the way. Maybe he will help himself to a little too much. So that is the journey we are on and it is bound to be more satisfying if the conclusions are somewhat unexpected, yet predictable in hindsight. That is what delights an audience. If they all fall in love with him or they all get together and take him to the cops those are conclusions that are bound to be equally unsatisfying. So let's keep going and see what happens.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Damn that is a tough question
I would like to think if I was in that situation I would say yes
But I don't know
I think the guilt would make me leave them alone
Because I know I would feel like garbage seeing them unhappy if I was the cause of it

Even though out of guilt, not love.

 

[dudeipoop]

Harem or no harem I don't care
My goal is to make sure Nicki & Mason are happy and enjoying life
Of course that also counts for all the other love interests too

no disrespect to you, but how do I block a account in here?

 

[Ragnar]

Harem games aren't realistic, but neither are NTR games, femdom games, incest games, corruption games, or any of the other fantasies people enjoy in games like this. Friends in Need is not an exception to this. Games have a certain conceit, a compact that is made between the creator and the audience, to indulge in a certain fiction for the purpose of enjoyment. This is the ride, you can either get on board or get left on the curb. Friends in Need has for the most part taken a path of verisimilitude, not really trying to conceal that Guy is an "everyman" character. It's right there in the name. He's just a guy. That is central to his appeal. While we are rooting for Guy's success, we don't want it to be so easy. So far the game has a good balance of creating tension between the characters.

Introducing the conceit of your average harem game isn't going to improve the game and might be too absurd for the audience to accept. It will break the compact that was built between the author and the audience. When I am teaching creative writing I instruct that building this compact is the most important portion of a story. Your audience will accept a great deal of absurdity just as long as they know that is the deal. They will even accept bad plots, bad scenes, bad characters, and nonsensical ass pulls, just as long as it is in service of honoring the deal that was silently made when you began the story. Most of the failures in popular entertainment recently have been the result of breaking the deal.

So to sum it up, how many girls Guy ends up with at the end isn't as important as having each individual story reaching a conclusion that is right for that individual character. The compact that was built wasn't "watch this guy get a lot of girlfriends" it was rather that each of the girls (and the boy) have a goal to reach or a problem to solve. Guy is going to help them do it, and maybe help himself along the way. Maybe he will help himself to a little too much. So that is the journey we are on and it is bound to be more satisfying if the conclusions are somewhat unexpected, yet predictable in hindsight. That is what delights an audience. If they all fall in love with him or they all get together and take him to the cops those are conclusions that are bound to be equally unsatisfying. So let's keep going and see what happens.

NTR or Cheating is realistic because cheating happens everyday.
Femdom is a kink, there are people into it like others are into whatever.
Corruption can be grooming or fucking your way up into your work place.
Harem, are you an oil prince or a mormon?
Incest, are you from Alabama?

 

[Master of Puppets]

Well, I personally think you're injecting more fantasy into the world... as I do not think women enjoy being in harems; it's a male fantasy usually imposed by force or at least by circumstance rather than true desire. Swinging is much, much more believable, but even that is pretty damn rare amongst most people.

You can think whatever the fuck you want, it doesn't make it true. Polyromantic relationships are and will continue to be a thing regardless of your opinion on the matter. You think the girls that he cares about, who care about him, who he's helped out when they really needed help, are going to tell him to fuck off because they aren't the only one he cares about? And you are claiming realism?

 

[Ragnar]

Gotta start helping the community like Guy. It's a stairway to Harem Heaven boys!

Speaking seriously I don't have anything against harem games. Just make it believable like i.e Desert Stalker.
On the other hand I think Neon has more than enough work with the routes already present in the game.
I would say he has too much work. 4 or 5 girls with several routes is too much for the average dev.
How many does FiN have?

 

[fleetp]

no disrespect to you, but how do I block a account in here?

Hold your mouse over the username of the account you want to 'block'. A pop-up box will appear. In that box click on the word 'Ignore'

 

[NewTricks]

NTR or Cheating is realistic because cheating happens everyday.
Femdom is a kink, there are people into it like others are into whatever.
Corruption can be grooming or fucking your way up into your work place.
Harem, are you an oil prince or a mormon?
Incest, are you from Alabama?

I didn't propose that the games are not realistic because the events never happen. I merely unpacked that they unfold in an unrealistic fashion. Often sanitized for consumption. For example, cases of incest, grooming, corruption, are often horrific and sickening rather than sexy so they need to be altered to appeal to the conventions of the kink. NTR needs to be repackaged from a tragedy into a comedy. Femdom often needs to create some kind of malefic all powerful matriarchial structure that doesn't exist. Harem, as mentioned, needs to make essential modifications to the basic needs that both men and women have in a relationship. Keep in mind, these conceits are a feature rather than a bug. They are part of the artifice, and their artificiality is what makes them entertaining.

 

[Ragnar]

I didn't propose that the games are not realistic because the events never happen. I merely unpacked that they unfold in an unrealistic fashion. Often sanitized for consumption. For example, cases of incest, grooming, corruption, are often horrific and sickening rather than sexy so they need to be altered to appeal to the conventions of the kink. NTR needs to be repackaged from a tragedy into a comedy. Femdom often needs to create some kind of malefic all powerful matriarchial structure that doesn't exist. Harem, as mentioned, needs to make essential modifications to the basic needs that both men and women have in a relationship. Keep in mind, these conceits are a feature rather than a bug. They are part of the artifice, and their artificiality is what makes them entertaining.

You're right about the romanticization of kinks and themes in most avns, even if there are some crude exceptions. Still you can make believable scenarios from scratch for almost everything.
In example you play as a rich and young dude collecting instagram thots for your Harem. They're with the MC for the money but eh, It's a Harem afer all.
Harem doesn't work in FiN because it was never intended to be a Harem game. The girls and women in the game won't share, maybe a threesome here and there with the most adventurous but that is.

 

[TM | Twisted Games]

I might argue that FiN does incorporate a kind of harem, just not the typical (and in my opinion deeply boring) romantic type. If the MC has a collection of women all providing him sexual favors, all indebted to him and willing to take his direction...that could be construed as a type of harem I suppose. Doesn't require them to be romantic with each other, or even the MC. Frankly, it's the type of 'harem' I'd prefer to see more of.

 

[Joshy92]

I'm actually the opposite
I love romance
I don't even like it when the mc in these games calls a girl a whore or stuff like that.

Anyway
Is everyone else excited about going glasses shopping with Mason in the next update?
I'm going to pretend it's a date
Just you wait Mason, I'll take you on a nice romantic date eventually
The date will of course include handholding and lots of kisses

About harems I honestly don't like them
But I'll play almost anything if something I don't like is avoidable

 

[SlapE]

I think it's pointless arguing the Harem topic, it's beating a dead horse at this point. We know there won't be a romantic harem ending, at least not until after the game is complete, since it was mentioned maybe a bonus ending would be added afterwards.

We also know there will be romantic POLY endings, with like 2 or 3 girls, I doubt it will go beyond that considering the characters available. I'd say a poly relationship with 4 would be hopeful, and I'm struggling to think which 4 girls within the confines of the story so far would be willing to potentially partake in that sort of relationship. The only ones I can think of are Nicki, Mason, and likely Viola too. Some other potential but less likely candidates being Ashe and Brittani.

I get the feeling Gabby, Carolina, Madison, and Pepper are super unlikely to want a poly relationship, at least a romantic one. (Although Gabby and Viola throuple could be a thing... maybe) As far as Alex, Wren, Risa or Cassie go, we don't know much so no point in speculating on those four.

I think my dream poly ending would be, Nicki, Ashe, Mason, and Cassie. Since Ashe isn't likely though, I would settle for the other three.

 

[Joshy92]

I think it's pointless arguing the Harem topic, it's beating a dead horse at this point. We know there won't be a romantic harem ending, at least not until after the game is complete, since it was mentioned maybe a bonus ending would be added afterwards.

We also know there will be romantic POLY endings, with like 2 or 3 girls, I doubt it will go beyond that considering the characters available. I'd say a poly relationship with 4 would be hopeful, and I'm struggling to think which 4 girls within the confines of the story so far would be willing to potentially partake in that sort of relationship. The only ones I can think of are Nicki, Mason, and likely Viola too, some other potential but less likely candidates being Ashe and Brittani.

I get the feeling Gabby, Carolina, Madison, and Pepper are super unlikely to want a poly relationship, at least a romantic one. (Although Gabby and Viola throuple could be a thing... maybe) As far as Alex, Wren, Risa or Cassie go, we don't know much so no point in speculating on those four.

I think my dream poly ending would be, Nicki, Ashe, Mason, and Cassie. Since Ashe isn't likely though, I would settle for the other three.

Honestly, I'll be happy as long as I get romantic monogamous endings for Mason & Nicki

 

[Dessolos]

I'm actually the opposite
I love romance
I don't even like it when the mc in these games calls a girl a whore or stuff like that.


About harems I honestly don't like them
But I'll play almost anything if something I don't like is avoidable

Same here Joshy the only way I think I would actually want to play a harem if it was romantic and all the girls in it wanted to form a romantic harem with you instead of the MC trying to make said harem. But sometimes I will still play harem games just for the story and characters even if I don't like the idea of it.

 

[SlapE]

Honestly, I'll be happy as long as I get romantic monogamous endings for Mason & Nicki

Well, I guess you'll be very happy then since that's a no brainer.

 

[Deleted member 313508]

NTR or Cheating is realistic because cheating happens everyday.
Femdom is a kink, there are people into it like others are into whatever.
Corruption can be grooming or fucking your way up into your work place.
Harem, are you an oil prince or a mormon?
Incest, are you from Alabama?

For the record, I'm not advocating for a harem ending in this game. I don't think it would work based on the premise.

HOWEVER, all of the things you listed are more common than you suggest. They just aren't publicized because they are taboo most places in this day and age. Things like harems, grooming and incest have not gone away simply because they are frowned upon. They are just hidden now to avoid public backlash.

There are enough news stories of people going to jail for grooming and incest and stories of sex cults (modern day harems in my mind) to know these things do still exist, because the desire for them still exists in the minds of many.

 

[Old Grumpy Wolf]

I might argue that FiN does incorporate a kind of harem, just not the typical (and in my opinion deeply boring) romantic type. If the MC has a collection of women all providing him sexual favors, all indebted to him and willing to take his direction...that could be construed as a type of harem I suppose. Doesn't require them to be romantic with each other, or even the MC. Frankly, it's the type of 'harem' I'd prefer to see more of.

I also prefer a harem to be like that. I'm not a fan of the polyamory harem. To me that's not a harem. Since 90% of harem games are polyamory, I'd rather just play solo romance games.

I love romance

About harems I honestly don't like them
But I'll play almost anything if something I don't like is avoidable

100% this. As I said above about harems. I know you love polyamory routes. *cough Maya cough Josy cough* But it is what it is. I don't judge others for what they like or dislike, even though when I say what I like or don't like, I get facepalmed by the fans who like or don't like whatever it is. They need to remember that I'm not pushing anything, I'm just saying my preferences.

 

[NewTricks]

I also prefer a harem to be like that. I'm not a fan of the polyamory harem. To me that's not a harem. Since 90% of harem games are polyamory, I'd rather just play solo romance games.


100% this. As I said above about harems. I know you love polyamory routes. *cough Maya cough Josy cough* But it is what it is. I don't judge others for what they like or dislike, even though when I say what I like or don't like, I get facepalmed by the fans who like or don't like whatever it is. They need to remember that I'm not pushing anything, I'm just saying my preferences.

Don't trouble yourself about the facepalms, sport. I certainly don't. If you don't get at least one facepalm you probably haven't said anything of substance. Plus, they are just counted the same as likes so it isn't like being downvoted on Reddit or something. So go ahead and voice your opinions on what you like and what you don't. Just realize that some things you don't like are an essential part of the game. Like Nikki. She isn't going anywhere... or is she? Heh heh heh.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Is everyone else excited about going glasses shopping with Mason in the next update?

 

[Ragnar]

For the record, I'm not advocating for a harem ending in this game. I don't think it would work based on the premise.

HOWEVER, all of the things you listed are more common than you suggest. They just aren't publicized because they are taboo most places in this day and age. Things like harems, grooming and incest have not gone away simply because they are frowned upon. They are just hidden now to avoid public backlash.

There are enough news stories of people going to jail for grooming and incest and stories of sex cults (modern day harems in my mind) to know these things do still exist, because the desire for them still exists in the minds of many.

I didn't deny that incest hapens but compared with cheating incest is rare outside of arranged marriage territory. Even in the case of arranged marriages it woud be between cousins, never between brothers for obvious reasons. Harem is even more rare than incest in the modern world.
But going back to game territory and Friends in Need, I only see Harem working in the corruption route if you force the girls into it. In the vanilla route I cant think of any girls being ok with anything beyond the casual threesome, and that would be only with open minded girls like Ashe or Brit.