VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [S1 v0.85c] [NeonGhosts]

[RC-1138 Boss]

It is believable that a terrible person would use flimsy justification for their terrible actions.
As for it not existing, I believe this is the line most people remember:

No idea why you are rearranging what you said in you previous post.

Anyways looking at the picture you posted, it is as i said: people decided to headcanon what was never there.

 

[DogSwordWhychm]

No idea why you are rearranging what you said in you previous post.

Anyways looking at the picture you posted, it is as i said: people decided to headcanon what was never there.

Okay, I'm not gonna bother arguing with someone who refuses to read what's in front of them.

 

[Dessolos]

I haven't played the new Dark Path but tbh without playing it I feel like it would be better in this one. Since you always had to give Nicki money and fuck her. I never liked the idea of Guy doing as a form of punishment or revenge because to me there is no justification no matter how much someone wronged you. As there is such a thing as going to far.

I imagine with Nicki actually acting like a friend it makes the Dark scene , darker and more fucked up. Which to me if you are going to be playing that path anyways would be the better option. As I feel now it's more about him showing his true colors than trying to find a reason to do it. Which I think it's better to as I hate it when games tries to justify doing dark things for the sake of revenge or punishment I rather the MC is just an evil bastard than trying to find justification.

 

[armond]

Spoiler: LMAO

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[Master of Puppets]

If anything the new chapter 1 puts Evil Guy's profile more in line with what he does in later chapters as a sociopath/psycopath who can barely holds his ugly impulses in check when he sees a person in a position of power inbalance to him.

Uh, yeah. That's what everyone has been saying. Now instead of a character with a realistic overreaction to bad behaviour by a friend, we have a cardboard cutout who is just evil just because. Congrats on catching up with the rest of the class.

 

[Boopadooparoop]

I'll preface this with the most dismissive of suggestions towards the argument for the evil path, people can just headcanon the original chapter one, if they're arguing for it then they've played it. Next, if you need any form of justification its arguable that Nicki comes to Guy with the intention of cheating on her long time boyfriend, which shouldn't be that far off the argument being made for the gold digger justification. Sure, one could suggest he's an awful, manipulative, abusive boyfriend and so Guy is the natural better choice, but its just as possible Guy is just her switching abuser.
Neon's assertion is correct, there shouldn't be a required justification, a person who acts nice from a position of weakness won't always act nice from a position of strength. There's entire discourse on this in politics, in fiction, in religion, in history. Obviously with many of those we have the benefit of hindsight, but its not altogether that uncommon a meek or downtrodden character or person who suddenly comes into wealth or power abruptly switches into a callous or torturous one. Sometimes those "justifications" can be seen as innocuous from an outsiders perspective, or they happen way back in childhood where this story doesn't occur. There is some level of implication through Guys sister that his familial relationship is complicated. The first scene already displays a character who, on a whim, funnels all of his wealth into a shoddy crypto-currency while drunk off his ass at the behest of someone apparently charismatic. That's bad and impulsive decision making. It would also serve to occasionally create people who believe that society owes them something, and who then go out of their way to justify bad decisions they make to gain their perceived dues.
The main disconnect as far as I perceive it seems to be an argument of "there is no required justification" and "there is always an original justification". Which I don't think need to be taken as exclusive assertions, the "there is no required justification" argument isn't necessarily suggesting that someone doesn't have a personal justification, just that any justification they make for themselves doesn't truly justify the action taken. Basically, if someone is going to do something they internally perceive as bad they're going to do it, then they'll search for a justification after the fact, rolling it back until one satisfies or ending on "It's in my nature". And for the "there is always an original justification", an initial justification isn't always shown, though it can still exist, sometimes it might only be inferred. To use the aforementioned Watchmen comic book as an example, the Comedian might have an original justification but that's never given. The Comedian is just a person who quite often uses his perception as a good guy to indulge in his basal desires.

 

[Pixillin']

Uh, yeah. That's what everyone has been saying. Now instead of a character with a realistic overreaction to bad behaviour by a friend, we have a cardboard cutout who is just evil just because. Congrats on catching up with the rest of the class.

Except that it wasn't a "realistic overreaction" or "bad behaviour by a friend" - Nicky came to her friend for help, and (if that's the path you're taking) he raped her - simple as that. It was a psychotic reaction to a friend asking for help. That people kept saying it was "an overreaction to bad behavior" is one of the things Neon cleared up because that's never what it was.

 

[Wall Of Text]

The more I read this thread, the more I think that the A in AVN standing for Adult should preclude the petty reductive argument that so many people just don't understand what the dev and his white knights are saying, and that they're simply being obtuse, but hey, here we are.

 

[fleetp]

I'm patiently awaiting the updated chapters 2 through 11. I think Neon did a great job with the art and writing in the remade chapter 1.

 

[ffive]

OK, side-stepping the going in circles for a moment, NeonGhosts there's a bit in the remake script that's likely a bug, given it can produce a contradiction:

            if ch1_ni_crush_known == True :
                ni1b"And don’t act like tonight is any different! I put myself out there, {i}{b}again{/b}{/i}, and what did you do?"
                ni1b"Nothing! {i}{b}Again!{/b}{/i}"

The check should be probably for False because as it is, Nicki will claim Guy has done "nothing again" when he actually did admit he's got feelings for her and then they potentially kissed and maybe even fucked at his old place.

 

[Nerv_rr]

i feel like everyone is just biased towards the way they play and what their favorite kinks , we should just try the dev , he is doing a great job so far , i mean there is great potential since this is one of his starting games

 

[Nerv_rr]

i like how all these peaple that dont like the dark path and dont play it give their opinion on it , you should let the peaple who actually enjoy it give the critics for it , you dont see us going around trying to force the way we play on the game

 

[MarcoDerio]

Money changes people, Guy lost his money and then given fortune. He lost his chance by being a coward and given another chance on his relationship with nicki. The only variable that changes are the money he had.

But at the end of the day, its the dev story to write. its always better to show than tell so the viewers ( or players in this case ) could form their own conclusions on the situation.

 

[Pixillin']

i like how all these peaple that dont like the dark path and dont play it give their opinion on it , you should let the peaple who actually enjoy it give the critics for it , you dont see us going around trying to force the way we play on the game

I’m not telling anyone how to play, just pointing out that the new version is the same as the old version but better explained and with more background information (and better art).

 

[Nerv_rr]

I’m not telling anyone how to play, just pointing out that the new version is the same as the old version but better explained and with more background information (and better art).

 

[LWtbo]

Actually my issue is not that you can't kid yourself that Nicki did the dirty on you.
So treating her like shit and raping her Is somehow ok.
Or that you don't like the Dev's new update is making you have to be an asshole from the start now.
If you still want to treat Nikki the same way.

Nope my Issue is the Idea now that if you act like a misogynistic asshole from the start as expected.
That Nikki is still even your friend let alone actually cares for you.

No girl In her right mind no matter how easygoing or Naive they appear.
Is ever going to stay friends with an misogynistic asshole let alone care about him.
And you can try but you can't hide it from a girl for long I have seen a few try.
Girls may put up with that crap from a boyfriend or even a relative and they do sadly.

I have known many that will actually not only put up with it but date the misogynistic asshole.
But not one of them would be willing to have one as a friend.
No girl I know or have ever met will put up with that crap from just a male friend.
At least not one that wasn't gay.

Just Sayin.

 

[ffive]

No girl In her right mind no matter how easygoing or Naive they appear.
Is ever going to stay friends with an misogynistic asshole let alone care about him.

I mean, Nicki is staying for years in relationship with Brent who is just a bag of negative traits wrapped together with a string of stupidity. Also, if you go all-out to demean her and lower her opinion enough, she does tell Guy to go fuck himself and that they're basically through:

            ni1e"Seriously, you are-- you are un-fucking-believable. I don't know what's gotten into
            you, but if this is how you want to be, then I'm done with you."
            ni1e"Call me when you've pulled your head out of your ass. I'd ask for some privacy
            while I change, but fuck it, you paid for the show."
            ni1e"Enjoy."

Supposedly, this is first time Guy acted in this manner in the whole time they've known each other, so Nicki didn't have a reason to think he isn't a good friend and/or relationship material.

There is inconsistency about it, but it's elsewhere -- the whole idea that supposedly "Guy was acshually unhinged, sexist creep the entire time and you can pick for him to have one misogynist though in the prologue to show it" kind of falls apart when otherwise all of his internal monologues about Nicki and in general are 100% positive, loving, respectful, grateful and whathaveyou. (until the last 5% where you choose to be a dick and he goes all Mr. Hyde) Which is harder to buy, because while one can act in front of others to fool them about what sort of a person you are, you don't fake your internal thoughts.

But then rectifying it would require quite a bit more writing, since you'd basically have to write 2-3 different Guys.

 

[Ottoeight]

I mean, Nicki is staying for years in relationship with Brent who is just a bag of negative traits wrapped together with a string of stupidity. Also, if you go all-out to demean her and lower her opinion enough, she does tell Guy to go fuck himself and that they're basically through:

            ni1e"Seriously, you are-- you are un-fucking-believable. I don't know what's gotten into
            you, but if this is how you want to be, then I'm done with you."
            ni1e"Call me when you've pulled your head out of your ass. I'd ask for some privacy
            while I change, but fuck it, you paid for the show."
            ni1e"Enjoy."

Supposedly, this is first time Guy acted in this manner in the whole time they've known each other, so Nicki didn't have a reason to think he isn't a good friend and/or relationship material.

There is inconsistency about it, but it's elsewhere -- the whole idea that supposedly "Guy was acshually unhinged, sexist creep the entire time and you can pick for him to have one misogynist though in the prologue to show it" kind of falls apart when otherwise all of his internal monologues about Nicki and in general are 100% positive, loving, respectful, grateful and whathaveyou. (until the last 5% where you choose to be a dick and he goes all Mr. Hyde) Which is harder to buy, because while one can act in front of others to fool them about what sort of a person you are, you don't fake your internal thoughts.

But then rectifying it would require quite a bit more writing, since you'd basically have to write 2-3 different Guys.

People can beat around the bush as much as they want, BUT the naked truth is that this chapter 1 remake is as much as pointless and unnecessary and most of all detrimental for the whole game as much as all these side stories the dev has released during these months are pointless and unnecessary.

The first chapter was good as it was - it only needed some updated cgs.

Moreover, the game has too many characters and too many subroutes: it will go nowhere and we all know it.

 

[soldano]

We don't know that Guy is a normal person. He likes Nicki? Lots of toxic, shitty people love their moms. I'm not telling you that Guy has the potential for evil, because I'm showing you. To get to the dark route with Nicki you have to consistently display behavior that is kind of shitty, misogynistic, and gross. So, when he acts out in a moment of frustration/fear of losing his chance, it isn't a sudden, harsh departure from the person we've seen. It's just another step on the escalation ladder.

Okay, man. I guess you're bothered by the criticism, but there are also people who like your remake. So don't get all worked up. It never rains to everyone's liking.
Now, in my professional opinion, if I got my hands on a script that started like this remake, I'd throw it away without reading anything else. Maybe everything will make sense later and be spectacular. But there's no time to read everything, and a story that begins with such weak characters no longer invites the effort.
But that's just my opinion. Luckily, you don't depend on just one reader. So if there are people who like this new story you're telling, go for it.
What does surprise me is that you actually already had good material to work with. I don't understand why, instead of improving what was weakest, you chose to discard the most interesting things you had in your original chapter 1. But there's no need to dwell on it any further. These things sometimes happen when a story is tweaked more than it needs.

 

[SeaSide585]

It’s generally not a good idea to get too emotionally attached to characters in an AVN. This remake feels like it was tailored to present Nicki in a more favorable light. The fact that there was even a "Nicki removal" patch that made the game quit as a joke feels like a defensive move. In a porn game, the focus should be on player choice and story balance — not protecting certain characters. When it starts feeling like the dev takes criticism of a character personally, it gets a bit strange.