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agrdtcwa

Member
Aug 4, 2023
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Tbh, I think most milking accusations I see are practically as accurate as random chance, maybe even worse. :LOL: I think some people are just more paranoid and suspicious than others, and entitled to boot, and just don't have any experience in development to hone their judgment. :unsure: Maybe some milking bandwagons even push a dev into kinda doing just that... not being paid much for your work just to come back to a forum who's twisting you into the devil, I bet that feels really shitty if your passion was making VNs. Eh, who knows though, maybe not.

But, if someone takes a little bit of time to prove to themselves one way or the other, and if they play the game before and after the remake, whether they approve the changes or not in the end, I think it's pretty apparent it's definitely, definitely not milking; just another normal case of a dev spending his resources towards another aspect of the game.

And... I also want Cassie content :HideThePain::HideThePain::HideThePain: Cassie numba 1 baybeee
To me the problem with remakes is that in most cases it just ends up alienating existing players who now have to wait a long time for new content while the dev goes back and improves the stuff they have already seen. And while maybe some existing players are fine with that, I personally have never played a game where I would prefer reworked content over new content. The issue is that as the dev gains experience, they will keep improving. After a year or two a developer might think their game was shit and might be tempted to do a rework. And 2 years later, they will likely feel the same way about their rework. It is a continuous cycle imo.

So while you are right in that resources are being directed towards another aspect of the game, the question for me when I consider supporting a game financially is if I am happy with how those resources are spent. I am not too annoyed for this particular game because while I have supported this game in the past I have not spent a lot. However because I have been burned too many times in the past with other devs, I am cynical about reworks as a whole and it is a dealbreaker for me when it comes to supporting any game that goes through a full rework (including this game) in the future. When/if the entire game is complete I will probably end up buying it on steam. But I will never spend money while development is ongoing.
 
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FakeWuxia

Member
Feb 24, 2020
102
74
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To me the problem with remakes is that in most cases it just ends up alienating existing players who now have to wait a long time for new content while the dev goes back and improves the stuff they have already seen. And while maybe some existing players are fine with that, I personally have never played a game where I would prefer reworked content over new content. The issue is that as the dev gains experience, they will keep improving. After a year or two a developer might think their game was shit and might be tempted to do a rework. And 2 years later, they will likely feel the same way about their rework. It is a continuous cycle imo.
I can see where you are coming from on that. When I see a game I know I like is updated I just download it and try it out asap so when the first remake hit I didn't read anything about it and loaded the game thinking it was going to be another progression in the storyline. I was instantly hooked on the remake though. I like the style and the storyline and yes I know its an erotic game but I do play these for the storyline most times. I think Neon knocked it out of the park but then I get to the new end of content and was confused for a second like "wait wasn't there more before?" Then it hit me that I had been playing only the new content not the full previous game with new reworked beginning. It's still a great game and I will continue to play it every time I see it updated but I do hope it is seen through till the end before another rework as the content is already great and it would get a bit boring to replay the first parts over and over even if the graphics and story improve each time. I'm in the situation with fixed income and no real way to support the creators of the games which leaves a bitter taste in my mouth because I would like to see guys like Neon make it and do well for themselves and I can't help with that while other developers milk their supporters with 0 regard for them and are making big bucks. Hell if I was capable of it I would even try making a game to get a bit of income in but I have issues installing games sometimes so it's pretty obvious it's outside of my capabilities let alone something successful.
 
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PyoT

Member
Sep 3, 2020
435
644
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There's many games where I wish the dev would spend some time on reworking some aspects of it.

Development on here often feels like the dev is literally chased by a pack and they gotta rush forward without stopping forever, and I do feel that that can contribute to so many projects burning out ... compare this to, let's say, early access games on Steam. They basically all have significant reworks of already existing content; that's perfectly normal if you want to end up with the best possible endproduct. And especially in writing (which a major aspect of these games - mostly visuals novels in some form or another) there's a reason the published work usually is the 4th or 5th draft, not the first ...

... that's the "on paper" thinking, but then there's the reality. Reworks tend to kill dev's motivations too, and in worst case start a cycle where then all momentum is dead and nothing is happening anymore and you end up with abandoned game #18439. And of course as demonstrated here it does not even actually mean that reworked content is definitely better as far as everyone is concerned. So I also do not want reworks.

Ideally it'd probably be doing reworks after the game is complete. But of course again, if you are sitting there as a creative person and every time you want to work on your game and in the back of your mind is a "but I don't like chapter 1 anymore", that's just not helping.

I guess what I'm saying it's the classic very insightful it all depends. ^^
 

PHIL101-YYouPPHard

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2022
1,223
2,623
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To me the problem with remakes is that in most cases it just ends up alienating existing players who now have to wait a long time for new content while the dev goes back and improves the stuff they have already seen. And while maybe some existing players are fine with that, I personally have never played a game where I would prefer reworked content over new content. The issue is that as the dev gains experience, they will keep improving. After a year or two a developer might think their game was shit and might be tempted to do a rework. And 2 years later, they will likely feel the same way about their rework. It is a continuous cycle imo.

So while you are right in that resources are being directed towards another aspect of the game, the question for me when I consider supporting a game financially is if I am happy with how those resources are spent. I am not too annoyed for this particular game because while I have supported this game in the past I have not spent a lot. However because I have been burned too many times in the past with other devs, I am cynical about reworks as a whole and it is a dealbreaker for me when it comes to supporting any game that goes through a full rework (including this game) in the future. When/if the entire game is complete I will probably end up buying it on steam. But I will never spend money while development is ongoing.
Fair enough. I haven't had that experience yet, I bet it sucks. But, if paying customers are satisfied, and the update is a good future investment, which both seem to be the case, I don't see where the issue is.

And chp 1 was a unique case for this game in particular; that plus the necessary changes to the code, and I don't think it really compares, especially given that this remake should be totally complete ~soon-ish. It would've been in development for, what... ~4 months altogether? That's really nothing. So, I don't see the complaints being justified except people are getting impatient, which is nothing new under the sun for development projects that people actually want to play.

Ideally it'd probably be doing reworks after the game is complete. But of course again, if you are sitting there as a creative person and every time you want to work on your game and in the back of your mind is a "but I don't like chapter 1 anymore", that's just not helping.
You make some very good points. I think some of you weren't here when discussion on a chp 1 rework was going on; it's basically been the plan for a very long time and the dev explained his reasoning, and it all made sense to most people. It was a lot of things; quality, narrative cohesion, character motivation and logic for Nicki, and very importantly, the messy code. So, it would've been awkward to wait until the game was finished.
 
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DatGuy20

Member
Jul 14, 2017
286
342
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As a non pirate, It kinda feels like with these chapters (8-10) not much really changed so far? Like it feels like the reason this took so long to drop was because of a perfectionist mindset more than anything. Like it's basically the same game after the initial major reworks.

Also the bug with the lady from chapter 3? showing up in every dialogue box is kinda annoying
 
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NeonGhosts

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Mar 20, 2019
1,384
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As a non pirate, It kinda feels like with these chapters (8-10) not much really changed so far? Like it feels like the reason this took so long to drop was because of a perfectionist mindset more than anything. Like it's basically the same game after the initial major reworks.

Also the bug with the lady from chapter 3? showing up in every dialogue box is kinda annoying
First of all, thanks for your support.

This was never meant to be a big release, which is why I dropped it to all tiers, at the same time. I'm also planning on an accelerated public release. I never really meant to give the impression it'd be a giant, sweeping remake. The plan was always that I'd redo Chapter One, do a rather large bridge scene from Chapter One to the new content, redo some of Chapter Two/Three to pretty things up, and then tweak things here and there as necessary. There's really only two scene additions to this release. One's a scene I'd always meant to put in there, where you call Ashe a bimbo and upset her, and the other's an extension of an existing scene I cut short in the first release. Oh, and the previously separate mini-sodes are added to the main game, now.

The reason why this has all taken so long, is that I've also been working on the first chapter for Season Two, at the same time. That chapter's over 900 images already, and I've still got some scenes to finish, so it'll be pretty substantial.

Just to quickly recap this year..
  • December: I took the month off after the release of the last chapter of Season One. But, during that time I got a lot of writing done, and rendered a teaser for Season Two, since I felt pretty bored, while not working.
  • January: I dropped the Season Two teaser, and began working on Chapter One's remake.
  • In February I dropped the Blue Valentine mini-sode.
  • In April I released the totally remade Chapter One.
  • In May I did the bridge material for Chapter Two, taking place in Brazil. That was something like 500 renders, I think. Maybe 450ish?
  • In June I released the first part of Season One, with some new material here and there.
  • July - October: I've been working more on the first chapter for Season Two, while working on the rest of Season One on the side.
This is also while doing two weekly posts on my blogs, bi-weekly Wanton Weekends image sets, making monthly teaser builds for high-tier supporters, and chatting with my Discord community. (And working my real job, going to the gym, and taking care of all the things you need to do as a grown-up with responsibilities.)

I'm not saying all this to be snarky or anything, but like.. Objectively, when it's broken down like that, I think it kinda makes sense why things have progressed at the rate they have?
 

Ragnar

Super User
Respected User
Former Staff
Aug 5, 2016
5,611
16,005
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First of all, thanks for your support.

This was never meant to be a big release, which is why I dropped it to all tiers, at the same time. I'm also planning on an accelerated public release. I never really meant to give the impression it'd be a giant, sweeping remake. The plan was always that I'd redo Chapter One, do a rather large bridge scene from Chapter One to the new content, redo some of Chapter Two/Three to pretty things up, and then tweak things here and there as necessary. There's really only two scene additions to this release. One's a scene I'd always meant to put in there, where you call Ashe a bimbo and upset her, and the other's an extension of an existing scene I cut short in the first release. Oh, and the previously separate mini-sodes are added to the main game, now.

The reason why this has all taken so long, is that I've also been working on the first chapter for Season Two, at the same time. That chapter's over 900 images already, and I've still got some scenes to finish, so it'll be pretty substantial.

Just to quickly recap this year..
  • December: I took the month off after the release of the last chapter of Season One. But, during that time I got a lot of writing done, and rendered a teaser for Season Two, since I felt pretty bored, while not working.
  • January: I dropped the Season Two teaser, and began working on Chapter One's remake.
  • In February I dropped the Blue Valentine mini-sode.
  • In April I released the totally remade Chapter One.
  • In May I did the bridge material for Chapter Two, taking place in Brazil. That was something like 500 renders, I think. Maybe 450ish?
  • In June I released the first part of Season One, with some new material here and there.
  • July - October: I've been working more on the first chapter for Season Two, while working on the rest of Season One on the side.
This is also while doing two weekly posts on my blogs, bi-weekly Wanton Weekends image sets, making monthly teaser builds for high-tier supporters, and chatting with my Discord community. (And working my real job, going to the gym, and taking care of all the things you need to do as a grown-up with responsibilities.)

I'm not saying all this to be snarky or anything, but like.. Objectively, when it's broken down like that, I think it kinda makes sense why things have progressed at the rate they have?
So any eta for full season 1? Somebody said you were planning a new season 1 release this weekend.
 

SonsOfLiberty

Community Champion
Compressor
Sep 3, 2022
30,583
281,671
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So any eta for full season 1? Somebody said you were planning a new season 1 release this weekend.
I mean you can check SS and see the post....

Reposting from Discord..

V0.85:

- restores three chapters; Ashe’s date, the influencers, and Brent’s short chapter, which is more of an interlude.

- adds 50~ renders to add scenes not present in the Legacy version.

- fixes visual errors in a few scenes.

- features some reworked pathing, allowing players who chose certain paths to get options like visiting Risa or watching TV, which weren’t originally available to them.

- as a consequence of the previous bullet point, adds a new (small) variant to open the following chapter.

- fixes some continuity errors with Gabby and Ashe.

- adds an “extras” menu with Blue Valentine and Slave to Desire accessible from the main menu.

So, not a ton of changes. More like a quality-of-life fix. I’ve had some bugs reported this morning that I need to check on, and I’ll be pushing out an update later today.
 

NeonGhosts

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Mar 20, 2019
1,384
17,535
698
So any eta for full season 1? Somebody said you were planning a new season 1 release this weekend.
Unfortunately, the WiFi was out at my job yesterday, so I couldn't download my scenes files to work on the 0.85b release of Friends Indeed, which needed extensive editing. I griped about it on Discord for a bit. Soooo, I've had to work on that today, which has put me behind on everything else.

But I'll get it out ASAP, so I can direct my attention back towards finishing up the next chapter. Can't provide an exact date right now, though.
 

DatGuy20

Member
Jul 14, 2017
286
342
219
First of all, thanks for your support.

This was never meant to be a big release, which is why I dropped it to all tiers, at the same time. I'm also planning on an accelerated public release. I never really meant to give the impression it'd be a giant, sweeping remake. The plan was always that I'd redo Chapter One, do a rather large bridge scene from Chapter One to the new content, redo some of Chapter Two/Three to pretty things up, and then tweak things here and there as necessary. There's really only two scene additions to this release. One's a scene I'd always meant to put in there, where you call Ashe a bimbo and upset her, and the other's an extension of an existing scene I cut short in the first release. Oh, and the previously separate mini-sodes are added to the main game, now.

The reason why this has all taken so long, is that I've also been working on the first chapter for Season Two, at the same time. That chapter's over 900 images already, and I've still got some scenes to finish, so it'll be pretty substantial.

Just to quickly recap this year..
  • December: I took the month off after the release of the last chapter of Season One. But, during that time I got a lot of writing done, and rendered a teaser for Season Two, since I felt pretty bored, while not working.
  • January: I dropped the Season Two teaser, and began working on Chapter One's remake.
  • In February I dropped the Blue Valentine mini-sode.
  • In April I released the totally remade Chapter One.
  • In May I did the bridge material for Chapter Two, taking place in Brazil. That was something like 500 renders, I think. Maybe 450ish?
  • In June I released the first part of Season One, with some new material here and there.
  • July - October: I've been working more on the first chapter for Season Two, while working on the rest of Season One on the side.
This is also while doing two weekly posts on my blogs, bi-weekly Wanton Weekends image sets, making monthly teaser builds for high-tier supporters, and chatting with my Discord community. (And working my real job, going to the gym, and taking care of all the things you need to do as a grown-up with responsibilities.)

I'm not saying all this to be snarky or anything, but like.. Objectively, when it's broken down like that, I think it kinda makes sense why things have progressed at the rate they have?
i was only talking about Chapter 8-10. I understand the rest of the rework and honestly i've liked where Season 2 and the beginning of the Season 1 rework went tbh. I just feel like the middle-end could've been added in all together with very few changes and no one would've minded.
 
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Requan8

Newbie
Nov 5, 2022
28
20
126
Nothing, it "enables" content and ONLY for Friends in Need and not for Friends Indeed (that is a different game), without it the content is not enabled. Taboo enables blackmail and rape, and anything Patreon doesn't like
Whats in friend indeed? Is it an offshoot or a prequel or it's own thing?
 

SonsOfLiberty

Community Champion
Compressor
Sep 3, 2022
30,583
281,671
957
Whats in friend indeed? Is it an offshoot or a prequel or it's own thing?
It is the censored version of this game and on Patreon to comply with their silly rules. The patch will NOT work with that version and will not add any content.
 
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