VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [S1 v0.85c] [NeonGhosts]

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

Yeah, even the hentai games of old that started all this had stories with conflict. Maybe it wasn't the best writing, and definitely definitely the erotic scenes were weak in comparison to now. God damn, those games did a lot of blueballing, I realize it must've been on purpose now. But, I do feel like VNs have flipped too far the other way: focus entirely on erotic scenes, and almost not at all on story. Well, good story I mean. I think some devs must try, and I respect that, but unfortunately that doesn't fix a bad story.

 

[The Anti]

My MC in his dungeon in the last update.
It was worth it.

 

[Lightaces]

So then what's the point of playing a Dark path, if it only ends up a "fuck the MC (player)" type ending?

Good path = nice guy to whom nice things happen. Dark path = bad guy who takes advantage and takes what he wants.

I don't see punishing the player with bad endings JUST for playing a Dark path as a value-add to the game, at all. It's about whether the MC earns affection and sex, or he takes pleasure and sex without regard for others.

If I were playing both paths before reviewing the game, and the Dark path was just entirely unfulfilling (and basically not enjoyable as a power trip), I'd probably dock the game 1-2 stars out of possible 5 just for that reason.

Because good story telling requires consequences for the character's actions. Good actions, good results, bad actions, bad consequences. Stories should have a moral, and it definitely SHOULDN'T be "rape is fine."

 

[AngelsLament]

Because good story telling requires consequences for the character's actions. Good actions, good results, bad actions, bad consequences. Stories should have a moral, and it definitely SHOULDN'T be "rape is fine."

If you don't already know rape is bad nothing this game can do will teach you that.

 

[Lightaces]

Not sure about you, but I highly doubt people play AVNs for life lessons, I certainly don't. Any game that tries to teach ME one after all the decades I've lived instead of entertaining me like a game should, doesn't get a decent review. Most of the time I simply stop playing, uninstall, and rate poorly.

If I want to play the nice guy and be loved, I do it. If I want to play the bad guy and live a virtual power trip, I do that instead. I don't need to be punished and shown "the error of my ways" in either case, nor do I think anyone else does.

I've played a few games with dark stories and LIs that run into seriously bad situations. But that's part of the story, not a reflection of my choices in it. Punishing the player with poor outcomes just isn't a fun thing, and I honestly think it's doing any game an injustice and turning away potential fun, and players.




You clearly didn't read my profile tag: "Incestuous Harem Owner". I like harem games, and "gotta collect them all!" type AVNs. They are only "rapey" if they are written that way. If you don't like rapey stuff, don't play rapey stuff. But don't assume harem games are rapey by default. If you do, you show your prejudices on your sleeves, and you'd be entirely wrong doing so.

FiN is a story game first, with erotic stuff included. And yes, those of us who support this game WANT it to be that way, and certainly do NOT want some mindless power trip. As we have told Neon time and again. So yeah, I don't think this is gonna be the game for you. It certainly isn't going to give you what you are after. No consequence-free power trip, and no harem - Neon has been quite clear on that one.

 

[Lightaces]

personally I feel AVN's with dark MC's need good and bad options. For players that want him to get punishes and players that do not. The only reason id ever play a Dark MC like this one is for him to get punished. So while you would feel punishing players isn't a good thing and takes away the fun. For me not punishing players for a Dark MC would be the exact opposite for me especially a game with choices. If it was a Kinetic novel then okay then maybe I can see your point there , depending on the game.

Where is the story telling in that? It's an adult visual NOVEL. It's a story first and foremost. If you want a different story, go tell your own. This one is Neon's, and he doesn't like the idea that a psychopath can get away with anything and everything.

 

[Lightaces]

I don't mind that - giving the player the choice of whether it turns out good or bad. But it needs to be clear, and actually GIVE that player the choice. Simply following a dark path and ending up with an unfulfilling story and result isn't enjoyable at all.

So yeah, all well and good, if it's clear and presents the choice before it happens.

Sorry, but seeing bad Guy end up in a pool of his own blood, or bent over in a jail cell with a big skin head standing behind him will be EXTREMELY fulfilling. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

This isn't a harem game, so if you like harem, why are you playing it?. And BTW, I see plenty of harem games with sexual assault and all that, so don't try and gaslight me.

Some people do seem to miss that "sleep sex" is, unless part of an established and negotiated dynamic, is just another word for "rape."

what happend with Risa scene in her house?

Not reintegrated into the rebuild yet. Coming soon.

But they don't die at the end... Sure, they may die a few seconds after the ending freeze frame, but we don't KNOW that.

I mean, other than, you know, history.

 

[Dessolos]

Where is the story telling in that? It's an adult visual NOVEL. It's a story first and foremost. If you want a different story, go tell your own. This one is Neon's, and he doesn't like the idea that a psychopath can get away with anything and everything.

huh you post actually confuses me. I never said a psychopath / Dark path MC should get away with everything. Hell i never even said Neon should change his story all I said was my opinion considering a VISUAL NOVEL has choices , maybe you should read my post again. As I never said anything you mentioned other than the fact because it's a visual novel I do think Dark and good options should exist and make sense even for a Dark MC. Especially if you don't want to anger / upset both types of dark path players. Personally if it was me there would be no good options for that type of MC but that doesn't mean a good option ending option shouldn't exist either. Neon has already said there will be both good and bad options anyways. I don't get how you think there is no story telling in that honestly that's rather baffling and weird to me if you actually did read my post which I suspect you didn't.

Tho I disagree with you about this being a story first AVN. Id say this is more of a balanced AVN with story and lewd elements being equal tho id say lewds probably are slightly above story.

 

[Jaga Telesin]

FiN is a story game first, with erotic stuff included. And yes, those of us who support this game WANT it to be that way, and certainly do NOT want some mindless power trip. As we have told Neon time and again. So yeah, I don't think this is gonna be the game for you. It certainly isn't going to give you what you are after. No consequence-free power trip, and no harem - Neon has been quite clear on that one.

I never claimed FiN was a harem game. I replied to Joshy since he brought up harems, equating them to being rapey. That's his opinion, but by-and-large, harem != rapey

And based on everything I've read, and where I see the developer taking the game after having played it twice, I think it's probably fair to say I'll simply remove it from my list and move on. I play games for fun. I self-insert (a lot of us do where a namable-MC is concerned). I don't need life lessons. And I usually don't care to see endings where said MC is the one left out in the cold.

I'd suggest to the developer to not allow MC renaming, since it's a story being told where it seems like self-insertion to the MC is a poor idea to begin with, bad endings in mind.

So unless there's a "Bad guy power-trip ending" where he uses his money and position to literally play the bad guy and come out on top and in control, the only thing left is the good guy route. That's fine and all, but it appears to only be half the game. I've already played that route through current content. At least knowing the dev's stance tells me whether or not I should support.

 

[ffive]

Where is the story telling in that? It's an adult visual NOVEL. It's a story first and foremost. If you want a different story, go tell your own.

This is not a kinetic novel, but one which allows the player to influence the direction of the plot. As such, i don't think having possible multiple outcomes based on those choices made by the player somehow eliminates the story telling. Quite the opposite, the way things are arranged it becomes a collaborative story-telling to some extent, that actually allows the player "tell their own story" as it is.

Because good story telling requires consequences for the character's actions. Good actions, good results, bad actions, bad consequences. Stories should have a moral, and it definitely SHOULDN'T be "rape is fine."

I'm sorry but this sort of story telling may be "good story telling" for you, but for some others "good deeds = reward. bad deeds = punishment" can be but a boring, stock tripe, and especially the idea that stories have to have a moral, that's eyeroll inducing.

 

[estrada777]

Updated Android port. Nothing too fancy but let me know if you have any issues.

Version: 0.85c + WT by asahibito + Dark toggle

Appreciate my porting? Leave a Tip! You're supporting my efforts, paying for storage, and encouraging more ports!
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This unofficial port/version is not released by the developer, download at your own risk.

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Updated.

 

[NeonGhosts]

I don’t know why I ever comment on loose, future plans.

Neon on Monday: “Probably gonna have some blowies in this chapter. A lil’ glak-glak for the masses.”

The forums on Wednesday: “So I guess we’re not getting anymore anal or vaginal, it’s just blowjobs from here on out!”

The forums on Friday: “Neon used to let us fuck women. Not anymore. A woman’s mouth is basically the same as a man’s, so in this blowjob-only future I guess we’re all gay.”

The forums on Sunday: “I can’t believe he’s going to turn all the women into men, and all the Masons into fox-furries with giant swinging dicks.”

The forums on Monday, one week following BJ Gate: “We demand the immediate cessation of the furryization of Friends in Need!”

 

[MiltonPowers]

I don’t know why I ever comment on loose, future plans.

Neon on Monday: “Probably gonna have some blowies in this chapter. A lil’ glak-glak for the masses.”

The forums on Wednesday: “So I guess we’re not getting anymore anal or vaginal, it’s just blowjobs from here on out!”

The forums on Friday: “Neon used to let us fuck women. Not anymore. A woman’s mouth is basically the same as a man’s, so in this blowjob-only future I guess we’re all gay.”

The forums on Sunday: “I can’t believe he’s going to turn all the women into men, and all the Masons into fox-furries with giant swinging dicks.”

The forums on Monday, one week following BJ Gate: “We demand the immediate cessation of the furryization of Friends in Need!”

You could put this on just about any thread here and it would still be true.

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

I think some of us are putting words in the dev's mouth now, should step back and let him speak for his own game.

And also, shouldn't moralize each other's opinions or act superior about it, it's annoying on the receiving end and just creates uninteresting bickering as opposed to engaging conversation. I do it too sometimes without even realizing it. Let's be chill.

 

[Joshy92]

I think some of us are putting words in the dev's mouth now, should step back and let him speak for his own game.

And also, shouldn't moralize each other's opinions or act superior about it, it's annoying on the receiving end and just creates uninteresting bickering as opposed to engaging conversation. I do it too sometimes without even realizing it. Let's be chill.

Don't worry everything will be back to normal when the next update launches

God I love update time.

 

[Gormius]

Yeah, this. Hopefully, people enjoy the journey, the same way they might with any story about an evil protagonist who gets their comeuppance at the end of their story. Breaking Bad, The Wire, etc.

I understand that some people may not like the way I end the game. But that's just the peril of making things, and especially of ending things. I could always pull a Martin or Rothfuss and just never end it. That'd leave FiN as something that people would talk about as very promising, but forever incomplete. Or I could write some goofy ending I didn't feel strongly about. But, I'd rather fall on my face doing what I want to do, than leave it unfinished or write something I don't like.

That said, it's important to remember that I'm still years out from wrapping up the story. My feelings could change, or I could find a different angle on the story. My feelings now are just that -- my feelings now, and subject to change.

Whatever I do, I hope people know that it's never about 'punishing' the player. It's about telling a story. Everything I'm doing is about telling a story. Otherwise I'd be doing some pure-POV game with a blank slate protagonist, where you just run through a succession of busty girls, collecting them into your harem and never dealing with any complications or setbacks. But good God, I'd be so bored. So, so bored.

I am in complete agreement with you, and to be honest as much as I love playing as the bad guy, I think it's better to have a sort of ending that scratches the itch and doesn't just punish the player. There is another game that does this extremely well, there are multiple paths in it and basically MC's dad is involved in criminal activity and he uses the MC to rob a bank alongside his sister or mom, and throughout the game you have an option of whether you want to act on what he says or not. If you do comply with him, it leads you down a route where MC indulges in all sorts of hedonism after the dad gets rich, going on a cruise and everything. Until one day the police knock on the house door, arrest MC, his mom and sister, while the dad is nowhere to be seen. After a couple of months in prison, the Dad provides a body double to look like MC committed suicide, and he rescues him from prison, in the car journey the dad stops the car to have a "talk" with MC, and basically he tells him how he found out our lovely MC has been shlicking his mom behind the dad's back, and the dad basically puts a gun to MC's head and asks him to end this relationship. In that ending you get an option to either be like "okay dad" and the end. Or you can actually murder him and then live your life freely with your family.

That ending gives you both a good/bad one, and that's the kind of thing I would love to see in the dark path. MC should get consequences for his actions, but there should be a route where he just, gets away with it all, you know? But to get away with it, he needs to get into bigger and bigger things until maybe he becomes the next Lucien or whatever.

 

[Ropyl]

I'm sorry but this sort of story telling may be "good story telling" for you, but for some others "good deeds = reward. bad deeds = punishment" can be but a boring, stock tripe, and especially the idea that stories have to have a moral, that's eyeroll inducing.

Yeah, I agree with you on that. The notion that good deeds would automatically end in a "good ending" and bad ones in a "bad ending" is really not that...interesting nor deep. I mean (and I feel like that's what NeonGhosts is going to do either way, I admit to just skimming the last few pages), you can have that AND also have a good ending for Bad Guy and vice versa.
Because in many stories and in many real lives, good deeds are not rewarded (on the contrary, people can take advantage of you for that) and bad deeds are not punished, because power and money for example.
Both paths need to have different endings. Well, need... If we're talking "storytelling-complexity and moral ambiguity".
I agree that stories can benefit from having a moral at the end, but that moral can very well be "You see kids? With power and money you can do whatever you want!". That's a (sad) fact of life, and given the tone of the game on the dark path, it wouldn't feel out of place. Of course, Bad Guy ending up in jail or whatever wouldn't feel out of place either. So yeah, multiple endings for each path would make the most sense. (although that would add a bunch of work and I'm not sure what variables would decide which ending and...yeah, whatever)

Either way I think we're all getting ahead of ourselves. We're thankfully nowhere near the end and I'm sure we're in for many more surprises before the ride is over, and the ride is the best part, not getting off of it (although getting off on it, well...).


edit : okay after not-skimming the last few pages I see I'm wrong about the "planned" endings, but well, that was just my two cents, then. And I understand that all this is just speculation at this point. Again, thankfully we're nowhere near the ending!

 

[Comaco]

I mean, other than, you know, history.

I know I am nitpicking here, but who says a story needs to follow history exactly, even if it may be "based on a true story"?

I have seen plenty of fiction loosely based on reality, where the writers have taken liberties with actual fact in order to tell a better story (or at least what they feel is a better story).

 

[ffive]

The forums on Monday, one week following BJ Gate: “We demand the immediate cessation of the furryization of Friends in Need!”

Don't forget the "See, another remake that will take years! I told you all this game was doomed!" folks.

 

[Ropyl]

Don't forget the "See, another remake that will take years! I told you all this game was doomed!" folks.

But the real question is, is the patch supposed to be empty?