VN Ren'Py Friends in Need [S1 v0.85c] [NeonGhosts]

[w123t4]

Is the setting of dark path changed in the remake version? It seems either you start to open the dark path in the beginning of the story or you will not able to get the option of dark path choices?

 

[w123t4]

There's no saying she is a LI. We'll have to wait and see.

Hard to believe she is not since she is one of the cover girls, if she isn't then all I can think of the reason will be neonghost back down because of the shitshow happened a while ago about the "appropriate" relationship between characters in patreon and itio.
Still, I will pray to the mighty god of incest that cassie will have some good scenes in the future.

 

[Lightaces]

Is the setting of dark path changed in the remake version? It seems either you start to open the dark path in the beginning of the story or you will not able to get the option of dark path choices?

That is correct. You either rape Nicki in chapter 1, or the Brazilian woman in Chapter 2. If you don't, you loose the chance to get the darkest options.

 

[Superocco]

Is the setting of dark path changed in the remake version? It seems either you start to open the dark path in the beginning of the story or you will not able to get the option of dark path choices?

Correct. I honestly think that it makes perfect sense to make it this way. Either your Guy is like that from the get-go, or he isn't. It's a pretty dark behaviour from his part, so it wouldn't be logical to have him somewhere in between and all of a sudden turn him into a piece of shit.

 

[Lightaces]

Hard to believe she is not since she is one of the cover girls, if she isn't then all I can think of the reason will be neonghost back down because of the shitshow happened a while ago about the "appropriate" relationship between characters in patreon and itio.
Still, I will pray to the mighty god of incest that cassie will have some good scenes in the future.

Wren is one of the cover girls, and probably won't be getting much of anything. Though that is because of a change in development plans more than anything - she was going to be a LI, but there were too many already!

The Cassie issue has been much discussed, and there is NO settled answer, as the game is still in development. But Neon has said he does know (yet, at least) how to get a Cassie romance route which feels consistent with the world he is writing. Given that, in his mind, it's a story with porn, and not a porn hung on a dime-store skeleton of a plot, he doesn't intend to force something that doesn't feel right. His supporters on his Discord have, sometimes begrudgingly, agreed that we are more worried about the story than slamming in a plot line which, while hot, doesn't fit the world-building.

That said, he's not done writing it, and if he comes up with something he likes, it will happen. And, while it will likely be very late in the game, there will absolutely be both light and dark corruption paths, and for the darkest version of guy, the final decent into an unsalvageable psyche will be the rape of Guy's own sister. His final downfall, as it were.

Oh, and Cassie WILL have some very hot scenes. Just, not necessarily with Guy.

 

[Lightaces]

Correct. I honestly think that it makes perfect sense to make it this way. Either your Guy is like that from the get-go, or he isn't. It's a pretty dark behaviour from his part, so it wouldn't be logical to have him somewhere in between and all of a sudden turn him into a piece of shit.

Yeah, I can't agree with that one. Plenty of people show one face to people who matter to them, and another to people "beneath" them. And that kind of degradation can certainly happen gradually over time. Though I suppose, if there is anyone he would see as "beneath" him, it's the Brazilian woman.

 

[Superocco]

Yeah, I can't agree with that one. Plenty of people show one face to people who matter to them, and another to people "beneath" them. And that kind of degradation can certainly happen gradually over time. Though I suppose, if there is anyone he would see as "beneath" him, it's the Brazilian woman.

Fair enough. I still think that it makes sense, at least from a player's perspective, to lock that path if you haven't gone through with it since the beginning. I might be biased though, because I don't even have the stomach to go through the Dark route, I only knew that it was locked behind those first choices with Nicki and the Brazilian girl (was her name Bea?). Anyway, it's indeed plausible for someone to bury a disgusting persona that only shows up with people that they don't deem worthy or on their level, so you're spot-on.

 

[Ropyl]

Fair enough. I still think that it makes sense, at least from a player's perspective, to lock that path if you haven't gone through with it since the beginning. I might be biased though, because I don't even have the stomach to go through the Dark route, I only knew that it was locked behind those first choices with Nicki and the Brazilian girl (was her name Bea?). Anyway, it's indeed plausible for someone to bury a disgusting persona that only shows up with people that they don't deem worthy or on their level, so you're spot-on.

First off, I have to admit I never even tried to remember the name of the brazilian chick. To me, she's the proverbial Piece of Fuckable Meat and that's good enough! I hope she'll one day remember fondly our time together but I very much doubt it Well, to each his own trauma.

Regarding the discussion: I agree with you though I understand Lightraces' point. To me the thing is that yeah, Guy could hide his dark side from others but given that he is the protagonist and we, as players, have access to his thoughts so to speak, he couldn't hide it from us. And that's the issue with not "locking" the dark path behind early choices. If the player makes light choices but wants to get dark later, for narrative consistency we would have to have some kind of starting option like "Dark thoughts". So the facade presented to other characters would be just that, a facade, but the player would know what's up inside Guy's mind. Otherwise it would be a little jarring, Guy being nice all along, even in his thoughts because the player hasn't yet made any dark choice, and suddenly the characters AND the players discover that yeah no, he was dark inside all along.
I don't know if what I mean is clear.

 

[Dessolos]

Correct. I honestly think that it makes perfect sense to make it this way. Either your Guy is like that from the get-go, or he isn't. It's a pretty dark behaviour from his part, so it wouldn't be logical to have him somewhere in between and all of a sudden turn him into a piece of shit.

Regarding the discussion: I agree with you though I understand Lightraces' point. To me the thing is that yeah, Guy could hide his dark side from others but given that he is the protagonist and we, as players, have access to his thoughts so to speak, he couldn't hide it from us. And that's the issue with not "locking" the dark path behind early choices. If the player makes light choices but wants to get dark later, for narrative consistency we would have to have some kind of starting option like "Dark thoughts". So the facade presented to other characters would be just that, a facade, but the player would know what's up inside Guy's mind. Otherwise it would be a little jarring, Guy being nice all along, even in his thoughts because the player hasn't yet made any dark choice, and suddenly the characters AND the players discover that yeah no, he was dark inside all along.
I don't know if what I mean is clear.

This thought process is about the old version ive yet to play the rework past Ch 1. While I did play the Dark Path with using ctrl skip past the dark sex scenes as I can't stomach to see them but was interested in the Dark Path from a story telling point of view. I kind of liked the idea of raping Ashe then on their date not touching her and using the pills on her and not having sex with her at all. Then when you tell Ashe this she seems very confused and there was a look on her face that made me think thay she almost feels bad for Guy or something , despite her being the victim. While I didn't touch any of the other LI in a Dark way as It makes Guy seems lonely , he made a mistake / fucked up and is very confused.

 

[Eland51298]

kind of liked the idea of raping Ashe then on their date not touching her and using the pills on her and not having sex with her at all. Then when you tell Ashe this she seems very confused and there was a look on her face that made me think thay she almost feels bad for Guy or something , despite her being the victim.

This is exactly what I do on my main save ;D

 

[Superocco]

First off, I have to admit I never even tried to remember the name of the brazilian chick. To me, she's the proverbial Piece of Fuckable Meat and that's good enough! I hope she'll one day remember fondly our time together but I very much doubt it Well, to each his own trauma.

Regarding the discussion: I agree with you though I understand Lightraces' point. To me the thing is that yeah, Guy could hide his dark side from others but given that he is the protagonist and we, as players, have access to his thoughts so to speak, he couldn't hide it from us. And that's the issue with not "locking" the dark path behind early choices. If the player makes light choices but wants to get dark later, for narrative consistency we would have to have some kind of starting option like "Dark thoughts". So the facade presented to other characters would be just that, a facade, but the player would know what's up inside Guy's mind. Otherwise it would be a little jarring, Guy being nice all along, even in his thoughts because the player hasn't yet made any dark choice, and suddenly the characters AND the players discover that yeah no, he was dark inside all along.
I don't know if what I mean is clear.

Don't worry, it's clear enough, that's more or less how I view this as well. We usually read not only lines of dialogue and descriptions of scenes, but also Guy's train of thought. For instance, his reaction when he sees certain images is different whether if he's nicer or more perverted, so the same applies here. How are you going to have a nice guy (pun intended) mindset throughout a certain part of the game, and in the middle of it turn into a despicable man? That's what I meant when I said that it's illogical to have OUR Guy somewhere in between and all of a sudden turn him into a rapey mf. Of course the façade aspect is totally plausible from a real life perspective, but from a gaming and role-playing perspective, it makes more sense to lock those choices ASAP.

This thought process is about the old version ive yet to play the rework past Ch 1. While I did play the Dark Path with using ctrl skip past the dark sex scenes as I can't stomach to see them but was interested in the Dark Path from a story telling point of view. I kind of liked the idea of raping Ashe then on their date not touching her and using the pills on her and not having sex with her at all. Then when you tell Ashe this she seems very confused and there was a look on her face that made me think thay she almost feels bad for Guy or something , despite her being the victim. While I didn't touch any of the other LI in a Dark way as It makes Guy seems lonely , he made a mistake / fucked up and is very confused.

I'm weak as hell because I'm not even able to do that with ctrl/skip It's the typical thing that would bother me in a movie, show or book, but I could watch and/or read regardless, but I can't do it while playing a game, even if to satisfy my curiosity.

 

[Dessolos]

I'm weak as hell because I'm not even able to do that with ctrl/skip It's the typical thing that would bother me in a movie, show or book, but I could watch and/or read regardless, but I can't do it while playing a game, even if to satisfy my curiosity.

Honestly this was the game that taught me I have a hard time doing such a thing to a character , in a AVN. I've seen other AVN's that have rape scenes that don't phase me as much as this game but still hard to watch. But I do admit I have a different outlook on content I don't like depending if it's an AVN or not.

 

[w123t4]

To me, the lock up path is kind of a bad move.
Good people can turn into bad by the time passed, especially someone like guy who from poor to become rich in one night. In reality these parvenu will usually show their truth self very quickly, some will remain longer but usually will be corrupted by the power brought by the money.
Human is not like a coin which only contain two faces, their action will not be always good or bad, locking the path in so early of the story will only make the story become simple: once you are good you are always good, and once you go black you never go back you were bad you will forever be bad, the previous version I think is better since you can actually control guy when that moment happened.
For how to improve this, I think adding some point system will simple solve it, like when player choose enough negative choices that have enough point the dark path will be unlocked.

 

[Jaga Telesin]

I find it a bit incredulous that there are only the two options: completely dark, or completely nice. Manipulative bastards are outwardly nice in order to be so manipulative - they don't simply rape people out in the open.

There were times in my last playthrough that I didn't want to up and point-blank rape a girl. But partway through the story there were darker situations that I *did* want to take advantage of, but could not as the decision making process had been closed. For that reason I was completely locked into the nice path, and couldn't try and manipulate certain LIs (like with the sleeping pills/wine) to have my way with them as I'd wanted.

A real life manipulative/twisted path usually starts with nice little lies, covering up the truth, then it descends into more darker stuff. You "can't let them see it coming" as it were. If I had a choice on how to play it, I would not close the dark path so early - keep that open for choosing much later on. Or even better - make it a points based system, where you can go either way depending on how many points in each you've acquired.

 

[Ropyl]

Honestly this was the game that taught me I have a hard time doing such a thing to a character , in a AVN. I've seen other AVN's that have rape scenes that don't phase me as much as this game but still hard to watch. But I do admit I have a different outlook on content I don't like depending if it's an AVN or not.

I've said it before, but this game had the exact opposite effect on me: I'm usually not interested in romance and light-hearted AVNs but this one...this one, I have to check out the paths I wouldn't normally go just because it's so...what's the word, poignant? Is that a word in english? Anyway. Even on my main, dark, save there are some characters I treat "nicely" because of that (looking at you Nikki, looking at you everyday).
Kudos to NG for making a game with such range.

 

[w123t4]

If I had a choice on how to play it, I would not close the dark path so early - keep that open for choosing much later on. Or even better - make it a points based system, where you can go either way depending on how many points in each you've acquired.

I remembered the original game was like that, there were no lock path but you can choose to be nice or bad towards the Lis by earning love points and dark points, just don't know why the remake version deleted this system.

 

[Ragnar]

I find it a bit incredulous that there are only the two options: completely dark, or completely nice. Manipulative bastards are outwardly nice in order to be so manipulative - they don't simply rape people out in the open.

There were times in my last playthrough that I didn't want to up and point-blank rape a girl. But partway through the story there were darker situations that I *did* want to take advantage of, but could not as the decision making process had been closed. For that reason I was completely locked into the nice path, and couldn't try and manipulate certain LIs (like with the sleeping pills/wine) to have my way with them as I'd wanted.

A real life manipulative/twisted path usually starts with nice little lies, covering up the truth, then it descends into more darker stuff. You "can't let them see it coming" as it were. If I had a choice on how to play it, I would not close the dark path so early - keep that open for choosing much later on. Or even better - make it a points based system, where you can go either way depending on how many points in each you've acquired.

Point systems are bad because you're forcing players to pick the best answers turning games into kinetic novels. Imo the way to go is dialogue trees and branching paths. Not a fan of the remake in that regard, now you have to start full psycho with Nicki to accumulate bad points or later you can't pick dark options.

 

[Jaga Telesin]

Point systems are bad because you're forcing players to pick the best answers turning games into kinetic novels. Imo the way to go is dialogue trees and branching paths. Not a fan of the remake in that regard, now you have to start full psycho with Nicki to accumulate bad points or later you can't pick dark options.

That's pretty much my point. You have to pick one near the start, and doing so locks you into it. From that perspective, it becomes a lot more kinetic, and less fluid based on what you want to do with each LI. There's really no manipulation - you are either sweet and loving, or a rapist. Not having any middle ground is where I feel it's lacking. The "manipulative sex fiend" who appears to be nice but is really just in it for pussy, seems to be absent.

 

[Kateterpeter]

I agree on this, the point system is a downgrade in my books. :/ It should have stayed open so that you can pick and choose.

 

[PHIL101-YYouPPHard]

Since Cassie is a LI, will we get to see what she is up to in this montage. Curious where she could possibly be.

Would be pretty pointless for her since the season just ended after meeting her. Montage of her in the jail cell again with "you just met her"?

I find it a bit incredulous that there are only the two options: completely dark, or completely nice. Manipulative bastards are outwardly nice in order to be so manipulative - they don't simply rape people out in the open.

There were times in my last playthrough that I didn't want to up and point-blank rape a girl. But partway through the story there were darker situations that I *did* want to take advantage of, but could not as the decision making process had been closed. For that reason I was completely locked into the nice path, and couldn't try and manipulate certain LIs (like with the sleeping pills/wine) to have my way with them as I'd wanted.

A real life manipulative/twisted path usually starts with nice little lies, covering up the truth, then it descends into more darker stuff. You "can't let them see it coming" as it were. If I had a choice on how to play it, I would not close the dark path so early - keep that open for choosing much later on. Or even better - make it a points based system, where you can go either way depending on how many points in each you've acquired.

You guys are really confused here. There's way more than two options. Go and play around with the game, see for yourself. If you don't rape the brazilian girl, you can still be quite mean to her and rape-y. You can do that with anyone, really. Even on the romance route, there are ways to be toxic and manipulative.

You can also build dark points throughout the game slowly, and the max points are 20 (default might be 10, actually? so you only need 10 pts in that case, easy), so I'd guess any future scenes that rely on that will eventually open up to you. So, there's your slowburn path to darkness. I'd have to look, as I'm not entirely sure how darkminded variable works with scenes outside of dark route.

Think about it this way: dark MC has a Brazilian girl all alone and vulnerable with him out on his boat in the lonely ocean in the middle of the night... you're telling me dark MC isn't going to take advantage of this perfect situation of power and control he is? And as for Nicki, it's similar but a little different; the woman he's had a strong infatuation with for years, who has been with a man that has made Guy feel small and pathetic, is finally alone with him in his condo, and he doesn't take it? A Guy that doesn't take either option really doesn't fit what the dark route specifically is obviously going for.

And on top of that, there are flavors of the dark route where your MC can be regretful and apologetic.

It sounds like what you guys want is the domination/dark corruption route, which is still definitely in the game. Afaik, you don't have to rape nicki or brazilian girl in order to get access to it, I'm guessing you just have to make choices that give you dark points, i.e. push for anal and don't be nice about it, insult, smack around, etc.

It makes sense from both the perspective of the character, but also from the perspective of the developer. It's already a very complex and open game, isn't it? I'd say it's far more complex and interesting than any VN I'm aware of out there. Doesn't really need the silliness of letting you go dark rapist at a moment's notice when your MC's thoughts in the meantime have been tame and normal.

EDIT: Also, Ashe's date isn't in the current updated game, yet. So, what you experienced might be unintended, or the author agrees with you and has changed the script. You will have to wait until S1 is complete and then you will find out what's available to you and what isn't.