La Dani
Forum Fanatic
- Aug 26, 2020
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- Thread starter NeonGhosts
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GaRbS
Member
- Apr 3, 2018
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No, I do realize the purpose of Patreon-like sites. I'm simply voicing dislike over the bad things they have brought into the Western game development scene.lol, that is the entire point of Patreon-like sites
Are you purposely obtuse?
Lupin the 3rd
Well-Known Member
- Sep 21, 2019
- 1,505
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Did you use Ai in it or not? Some Developers used Ais in their "Remastered" Edition and I avoid them since then.I’m glad everyone likes the three entire chapters I remade.
- Mar 20, 2019
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Just to very quickly address accusations of milking, stalling, blah blah blah..
I've never begged for support, and I never will. I focus on updating my blogs with fun content, updating the game as frequently as possible, and making myself available. That's it. That's all I can control. I'm extremely appreciative of the level of support I do get, and it's a big part of why I bust my ass to get as much content out as I can.
Also: the idea that I'm just this greedy dev who's doing all he can to extract the maximum amount of money from my supporters? I post a free, weekly post for everyone. I have zero reason to do that, and could probably snag some more supporters by putting it behind a paywall. But I don't. I have my lowest tier set to $2, which I think I clear something like $1.60 from per supporter, which is really more like $1.10 after I pay taxes. I could probably bump that up to $3, and make an extra $189 a month just from my active $2 SubStar members. But, I don't.
When I started this, I had a moonshot $50 tier, which gave people access to text-only chapters, so they could read ahead of they were so inclined. I never really expected people to pledge at that level, but I had a few supporters stick to that level for months, even after I dropped that tier's rewards down to $15, and explained to them that they really didn't need to support me at that level.
When I went on vacation for a month, I didn't just pretend to work while tossing out a few renders each week. I paused my platforms, and reactivated them when I came back the next month. (And still I wound up doing work over my vacation, so fuck me I guess.) I put out free stuff for holidays, and I have my bonus renders and text stories priced at a modest (for this space) $2. When I've had supporters whose subscription lapsed a day or two before I put out an update, I didn't tell them, "lol, tough titties." I sent them the game file anyway, because it was the decent thing to do. When I've had people whose finances were in a rough spot, but I knew they'd appreciate seeing some renders or a text story or something, I sent it to them. I've got a fucking Boosty, which I can't even withdrawn money from (because *~*Russia*~*) but I still update just like every other platform, because I had fans who wanted to be able to access the blog content and demo releases, and couldn't sub through SubStar.
Shit, during this whole rework phase I haven't even gotten the usual bump of new and returning subscribers, the way I usually do when I put out an update. Instead, subs have mostly been pretty level, with a few small spikes.
If anyone thinks that the actions I take are in pursuit of maximizing my profits: lol
A big, big part of the reason I had to do this rework, was because the way I previously coded stuff was a fucking mess. Most of my "control" variables were not placed before the start label, which caused all kinds of Hell when I'd try to update something. And my variables were all labeled inconsistently and stupid, because I just didn't know any better. I mean, look at the before and after.
This meant that every time I needed to find a variable for a character, I had to go dig through multiple places in the script files to find it, and then type out some long, unintuitive line of text. To say nothing of the fact that every character had stupid variables like nickidkpts and vi_lt and all kinds of other nonsense things. Now, everyone just has their basic character point value that scales from 0-20, working in conjunction with their relationship status and domination points. Then, various things are tagged/sorted by character and chapter, so I can find stuff easily when referring back to specific events. This makes working on future chapters so much easier, and less frustrating. And when things are less frustrating, and easier, it makes it much easier for me to sit my ass in a chair for a few hours and type, rather than go do any one of the other many, many fun things I could be doing with my life.
This'll be my last word on this, because honestly? This shit just bums me out. There's all kinds of neat little story-centric things to discuss in the new material, but it's drowned out by the chorus of people complaining that I'm apparently holding all my supporters' families hostage, and forcing them to support me month after month. It's tiresome.
I've never begged for support, and I never will. I focus on updating my blogs with fun content, updating the game as frequently as possible, and making myself available. That's it. That's all I can control. I'm extremely appreciative of the level of support I do get, and it's a big part of why I bust my ass to get as much content out as I can.
Also: the idea that I'm just this greedy dev who's doing all he can to extract the maximum amount of money from my supporters? I post a free, weekly post for everyone. I have zero reason to do that, and could probably snag some more supporters by putting it behind a paywall. But I don't. I have my lowest tier set to $2, which I think I clear something like $1.60 from per supporter, which is really more like $1.10 after I pay taxes. I could probably bump that up to $3, and make an extra $189 a month just from my active $2 SubStar members. But, I don't.
When I started this, I had a moonshot $50 tier, which gave people access to text-only chapters, so they could read ahead of they were so inclined. I never really expected people to pledge at that level, but I had a few supporters stick to that level for months, even after I dropped that tier's rewards down to $15, and explained to them that they really didn't need to support me at that level.
When I went on vacation for a month, I didn't just pretend to work while tossing out a few renders each week. I paused my platforms, and reactivated them when I came back the next month. (And still I wound up doing work over my vacation, so fuck me I guess.) I put out free stuff for holidays, and I have my bonus renders and text stories priced at a modest (for this space) $2. When I've had supporters whose subscription lapsed a day or two before I put out an update, I didn't tell them, "lol, tough titties." I sent them the game file anyway, because it was the decent thing to do. When I've had people whose finances were in a rough spot, but I knew they'd appreciate seeing some renders or a text story or something, I sent it to them. I've got a fucking Boosty, which I can't even withdrawn money from (because *~*Russia*~*) but I still update just like every other platform, because I had fans who wanted to be able to access the blog content and demo releases, and couldn't sub through SubStar.
Shit, during this whole rework phase I haven't even gotten the usual bump of new and returning subscribers, the way I usually do when I put out an update. Instead, subs have mostly been pretty level, with a few small spikes.
If anyone thinks that the actions I take are in pursuit of maximizing my profits: lol
A big, big part of the reason I had to do this rework, was because the way I previously coded stuff was a fucking mess. Most of my "control" variables were not placed before the start label, which caused all kinds of Hell when I'd try to update something. And my variables were all labeled inconsistently and stupid, because I just didn't know any better. I mean, look at the before and after.
This meant that every time I needed to find a variable for a character, I had to go dig through multiple places in the script files to find it, and then type out some long, unintuitive line of text. To say nothing of the fact that every character had stupid variables like nickidkpts and vi_lt and all kinds of other nonsense things. Now, everyone just has their basic character point value that scales from 0-20, working in conjunction with their relationship status and domination points. Then, various things are tagged/sorted by character and chapter, so I can find stuff easily when referring back to specific events. This makes working on future chapters so much easier, and less frustrating. And when things are less frustrating, and easier, it makes it much easier for me to sit my ass in a chair for a few hours and type, rather than go do any one of the other many, many fun things I could be doing with my life.
This'll be my last word on this, because honestly? This shit just bums me out. There's all kinds of neat little story-centric things to discuss in the new material, but it's drowned out by the chorus of people complaining that I'm apparently holding all my supporters' families hostage, and forcing them to support me month after month. It's tiresome.
Daermon420
Active Member
- Sep 5, 2020
- 501
- 1,705
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You mean the western adult game development scene? The one that was almost completely non-existent before sites like Patreon and Subscribestar came along and enabled solo or small dev teams to potentially make money on their work as they do it? It also is what allows people creating games in engines like HS1/2 and Koikatsu to make any money for their work at all.
I'm not a fan of everything those sites and others like them do, particularly the censorship. And yes, the "support the dev monthly" instead of "pay for a finished product once it's done" payment model absolutely does have its downsides and can be abused.
But since they allowed the western adult game scene to grow as it has I'd definitely say they have helped more than they've harmed.
And this game, as much as I liked it from the start, did have some damn rough edges in the early chapters. It's clear NeonGhosts actually put a lot of thought and work into remaking them and it's been noticeably improved over the initial version in my opinion.
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The Anti
Member
- Nov 12, 2018
- 280
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The only milking I’ve seen here is the milking of MCs cock by the girls.
Of which I can’t wait to see more of with Jun and Callie (WHEN SHE TURNS 18 DONT CALL THE COPS)
Of which I can’t wait to see more of with Jun and Callie (WHEN SHE TURNS 18 DONT CALL THE COPS)
Burt
Ignoring Social Media
- Dec 14, 2016
- 1,320
- 1,033
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People too used to complaining I hate to point out they paid nothing for it on here so white knighting Patreons seems rather disengenuous
Nerv_rr
Member
- Jul 21, 2021
- 276
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if you truly believe you're doing your best as a solo dev , then you shouldn't listen to anyone thats telling you that you are slacking off , the game is great , and you're still learning how things go as a solo dev...but they do have a point of the story advancement thing , the story is completely halted for about 1 year , and the remakes are still on-going , so it gets a bit tiring to play chap 1 over and over again , it would've been better to be late and drop the remake at once , less bitching about it i think
- Mar 20, 2019
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The last full update (Chapter 10) was in November. I went on vacation for the month of December, and then I released a Chapter 11 teaser in like.. March?
I'll grant you that yes, it sucks to have the forward momentum of the story delayed. But it certainly hasn't been a year, and even in the past few months there's been new stuff to play. The Blue Valentine mini-game had a small revelation around Spicy Sapphire/Pepper, and this Chapter 1 material (plus parts of Chapter 2 and 3) has introduced new characters, new ero scenes, etc. I just put out another Chapter 11 teaser for high tier patrons, so 300+ images of material for Season Two is already available to subscribers.
There's plenty of new stuff. But once again, any possible discussion of it just gets drowned out by thoughtless indignation, as people rage against what they perceive as inaction and laziness.
To put it in perspective: I've written 7,000+ lines of script and code for the new Chapter 1 and bridge section of Chapter 2. More if I include the stuff from Chapter 2 and 3 with Gabby, Madison, etc. The Chapter 1 remake was 900~ images. Blue Valentine was like 120. Just the bridging stuff with Guy and Beatriz (the Brazilian girl) was around 350 images, and the new stuff with Ashe's boss, Ashe, Madison, Gabby, Jun, Callie, etc. adds another 120 or so. The available Chapter 11 stuff is 300+ images.
So, in the six months and ten days since I've been back from vacation I've written over 7,000 lines of script, and rendered around 1800 images. Not counting the bonus stuff I update my blog with, short stories, etc.
The more updates the game gets the less content there is... a year ago there was more than now.
GaRbS
Member
- Apr 3, 2018
- 350
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I never stated or implied Patreon did nothing good for the western adult game development scene. It has done more good than bad but it still has done harm.
I haven't finished the remade content yet but from what I've played I agree that there have been significant improvements when it comes to the story and dialogue.
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Nerv_rr
Member
- Jul 21, 2021
- 276
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we apreciate your hard work , the game is great (you wouldn't had peaple complaining if it wasnt) , there is always the perspective of the player that is disconnected from the work the dev is doing
indio68
Forum Fanatic
- Sep 26, 2020
- 4,725
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totally agreed with you, i gave up on this when i've heard it got hit by the curse of rework...
VardenElf
Newbie
- Feb 14, 2020
- 36
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NeonGhosts I really enjoyed the new additions, especially Jun's scenes!
Are you going to add new scenes for the remaining chapters of Season 1?
Are you going to add new scenes for the remaining chapters of Season 1?
indio68
Forum Fanatic
- Sep 26, 2020
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Joshy92
Message Maven
- Mar 25, 2021
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This is also good business conduct. The original chapter one was good but compared to the remake it's awful. NG knows that on steam first impressions are important so he needs to bring everything up to the same level as the later chapters.
You only get one shot with the steam audience.
GaRbS
Member
- Apr 3, 2018
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I haven't seen anyone call you lazy since the latest update dropped.
I've also haven't seen anyone accuse you of milking since the latest update dropped
Honestly I think you're fighting ghosts and not addressing the actual concerns people here are giving.
I don't thnik you're milking at all, but I think remaking games is a terrible idea just practically.
1) A person will only have the creative drive to push a project as long as he finds it interesting. This doesn't last forever. At a certain point, a creative project becomes a job and a chore. Very few people have the discipline and drive to maintain a high level when something is painful, boring and uninteresting. Therefore if a dev goes to remake old chapters there's a very solid chance the quality of the new work will either drop or the frequency/amount of his work will. Some devs (the highest subbed ones) can circumvent this for long projects by hiring teams to do the boring work. Still.
2) We don't consume the game the way you develop it. You're immersed in it fully, constantly. You have to do it. We don't and we'll very rarely replay a game from start to finish every update. This means we'll catch up to the story only a few times. Between that, we consume 15000 other games, series, books, etc. That means the more we're out of it, the less we care and the more times we have to remind ourselves why we care, the more difficult it'll be to do so. So games that take huge amounts of time between proper progress simply fall off, even if their quality is kept high.
Me, personally, I think this game was one of my favorites. But it's been several years since I've had one single interaction with the young black girl and the fact I'm not even able to recall her name should tell you enough. Every time I see an update I get excited and every time there's nothing to be excited about, it's a little bit of care gone.
The correct way to rework was the Dreams of Desire way - a new, big, reworked release of the game after it was finished. It itself was like a brand new game and exciting as hell to redo.
At the end of the day, it's the devs personal choice. But I think you'd benefit from the point of view of people you'll rarely hear from, because most who think the way I do have just lost interest to the point they won't even bother to say why.
Again, no attack or whatever, just sharing a point of view I think is useful.
1) A person will only have the creative drive to push a project as long as he finds it interesting. This doesn't last forever. At a certain point, a creative project becomes a job and a chore. Very few people have the discipline and drive to maintain a high level when something is painful, boring and uninteresting. Therefore if a dev goes to remake old chapters there's a very solid chance the quality of the new work will either drop or the frequency/amount of his work will. Some devs (the highest subbed ones) can circumvent this for long projects by hiring teams to do the boring work. Still.
2) We don't consume the game the way you develop it. You're immersed in it fully, constantly. You have to do it. We don't and we'll very rarely replay a game from start to finish every update. This means we'll catch up to the story only a few times. Between that, we consume 15000 other games, series, books, etc. That means the more we're out of it, the less we care and the more times we have to remind ourselves why we care, the more difficult it'll be to do so. So games that take huge amounts of time between proper progress simply fall off, even if their quality is kept high.
Me, personally, I think this game was one of my favorites. But it's been several years since I've had one single interaction with the young black girl and the fact I'm not even able to recall her name should tell you enough. Every time I see an update I get excited and every time there's nothing to be excited about, it's a little bit of care gone.
The correct way to rework was the Dreams of Desire way - a new, big, reworked release of the game after it was finished. It itself was like a brand new game and exciting as hell to redo.
At the end of the day, it's the devs personal choice. But I think you'd benefit from the point of view of people you'll rarely hear from, because most who think the way I do have just lost interest to the point they won't even bother to say why.
Again, no attack or whatever, just sharing a point of view I think is useful.
GaRbS
Member
- Apr 3, 2018
- 350
- 695
- 279
Oh no, it's obviously a good business practice for devs to earn more money. I mean it's bad for consumers, which in turn will later turn out to be bad for the overall industry.
jadepaladin
Engaged Member
- Mar 9, 2020
- 3,502
- 7,300
- 646
This thread is why developers leave F95. I'm glad Neon seems to take it in stride. Some of the trolling is pretty funny all things considered.