- Oct 19, 2019
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- Thread starter BustinGutz
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- Nov 30, 2018
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Then study a bit of biology. In particular the development of the reproductive system.
Sexual organs develop from intermediate mesoderm into different male and female counterparts. They develop into different parts depending on hormones.
Both the penis and the clit develop from mesodermal tissue in the phallus. All embyros only have one set of these sexual organs to develop from.The phallus can only develop into one set of these not 2 for example. Therefore, they are mutally exclusive.
The only people with 2 sets of organs are those conjoined twins with connected bodies, born from two nucleu joined together.
Futanari means true hermaphrodism. True hermaphrodism is one specific category of intersex.
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- Jan 5, 2019
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Another futa definition discussion where I have to bring up the "Futanari? What's that?" book.
Find it, read it. This discussion will probably end up nuked by the mods like all the others.
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So? A book can be wrong.
ふたなり is a Japanese word to describe Hermaphrodism. Maybe US uses the word "futanari" differently. But in the rest of the world, where we adhere to the meaning of the original Japanese word, it means hermaprhodism.
It's a word used in many of the historical text. It's definitely not fictional.
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Yea I'm just gonna dump more pages at you.
"Book may be wrong" a japanese futanari artist is gonna be more credible than an internet rando ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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- Nov 30, 2018
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Literally on this page, 二形 aka ふたなり was used in the scrolls to describe the intertex "disease" or what we now call disorder.
- Jan 5, 2019
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And 'idiot' used to describe a medical condition. It takes reading just right past the sentence you clung onto confirming your view of things to read that the term is not used that way nowadays.
- Nov 30, 2018
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It's definitely still used today. Look, if you just say intersex, people don't know what kind of intersex the person is. 二(two)形(form) describes perfectly that it's the type with both the vagina and the penis, and in English, we call this condition true hermaphrodism. So, it is actually not accurate enough to say in real life that a person with both genita just have intersex disorder. Because there are many intersex disorders. For example, some people with intersex disorder just have penis as small as clit and mangled scrotum but internally have female production organ. Those people with scrotum don't have openings for vagina because scrotum is exactly where the vagina would be. But specifically the ones with both a penis and vagina, are called 二形 in Japan, and in English, true hermaphrodites. They do not have scrotum and they exist in real life.
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I literally just said it is still used today as an actual term and it is not fictional. As for fictional stuff, we have full package futanari literally shown in the page 8 where it is stated that some authors respect the origin of the word futanari so they invented this new term full package futanari.
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The term is not used in context of real people. It may have been at inception, it is not currently. "Original meaning" you refer to does not refer to the meaning you keep thinking of, but the situation of the term being applied more loosely after western exposure while already being established as a term for fictional characters with both genitalia.
Frankly, I shouldn't be defending anything right now. Bring up any source that supports anything you've been saying. Any modern text that'd supports your claims about the term that isn't just misusing it.
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You already said it yourself that the meaning changed after western exposure. So, they had to introduce a new term.
You can argue all about it being more loosely but to me that is changing the original meaning that targeted specifically those without testicles, which are well within the realm of realism. Once you add testicles, it is no longer possible in real life and is 100% fictional.
- Jun 24, 2018
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I'm not sure what book this is or who wrote it, but you should be careful to blindly believe what you see online or even from 'experts' lmao, especially with socially ambiguous terms and/or concepts.
No one uses these definition with any 'formal' capacity in Japanese porn, where the term futanari was most used and known from. I've seen porn as early as the 2000s called futanari having both genitals, or just being dickgirls, or having balls or not having balls.
The origins of a word are also ultimately meaningless compared to the social context it's actually used in. That's how we get slang, by the way, which is incredibly common to all cultures.
I'm not even sure what you two are even really arguing about any more, but everything in fictional work is fictional and it's a good thing we separate sexualized terms/fetishes/kinks with a layer of fictionalization.
That's one reason why I think this site using trans alongside futa as if they were the same thing idiotic, because they're not in the context they're actually used in and have been used in for decades.
True hermaphordism is a disorder/genetic defect in humans, full stop, as are most forms of biological intersex. It's not normal for our species the way it is for others.
Regardless of the term's original meaning, it has an utterly different context today, which is normal. I'm sure you're aware that homosexuality also had a lot of different, not-so-great meanings with off the wall sources of 'affliction' during the same periods, lmao? It was also considered a mental disorder for a long while due to sheer lack of understanding of mental disorders.
"Respecting" origins of words is mostly silly and pointless, as that's just not how language works or, more importantly, society. Tons of words have been coopted or had their meanings changed in modern context.
Futanari is one of them, and has been for decades. It has nothing to do with real people in the context of porn, so developing a new term for it just means the devs have no idea what they're talking about.
This whole argument just seems silly to me. You're not going to find anyone saying "futanari" outside of porn 99% of the time even in Japan save for a few rare cases, and they're seemingly trying to create new terms for stuff like this anyway exactly because of the sexualized association.
Being respectful to the ancient origin of the word in a whacko porn game like this is honestly face-palmy. Like, the heart is there, but it's also incredibly pointless virtue signaling that acomplishes nothing.
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Nekoarashi, a japanese futanari artist. The general consensus of the book is that there is no definition beyond having two sets of genitals, usage varies and there are many ways to go about it in fiction. Author prefaces it by saying it is a subjective but hopefully helpful assesment of things. Good read on the matter I'd say.
- Nov 30, 2018
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You need to respect the origins of words or otherwise you confuse people. Look, people into the original kind of futanari are absolutely not ok with full package futanari like many have already expressed their opinion on here already. It's just making people who are looking for the the stuff they want harder. In fact, it's even offensive to them they the ones into full package futanari stole their word.
- Oct 19, 2019
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'Futanari' refers to hermaphrodites, the term is a literal Japanese translation of "Hermaphrodite" FFS...
It doesn't mean 'true' anything, it's just a one-to-one translation of the word. It doesn't define the specifics.
Ergo why the term 'full-package futanari' and the like exist.
And no... No, the absolute BS I'm talking about is that you claim testicles and eggs are mutually exclusive; they aren't.
In humans it is rare AF for both to be present, let alone working/functional, true.
Humans aren't naturally hermaphroditic after all... So such cases are mutations, intersex rather than true hermaphrodites.
However, once again... There ARE cases in which both full sets of genitalia are present. Again, very, VERY rare...
But not 'mutually exclusive' as you claim. To say they're mutually exclusive because of how hormones in early development encourage them to grow into one organ or the other is to fail to comprehend just how mutated the genitals can get in some niche cases... Such as developing a doubled set of one genital group or another, or even, by golly, being born with an additional set that develops differently due to hormonal imbalances in early development or the like. Or, ya know, shit like intersex chimerism due to partial sibling absorption.
Furthermore, this is fantasy; it ignores the norm and defaults at the very edges of what is biologically possible.
You claim biology as your fallback... But you're just a dipshit spouting nonsense.
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I already explained. The word 'futanari' only used to specifically apply to those with a penis and a vagina in appearance. This applies to both the description on the scroll and the depiction back in the 90s. 'full-package futanari' is a new term to avoid the confusion with futanari. If you take away also futanari and make futanari also means 'full-package futanari', there is no word that specifically target those with only a penis and a vagina when there is a term 'full-package futanari' for your own fetish.
As for "It doesn't mean 'true' anything", sorry but the description of what was on the scroll matches the term that applies to true hermphrodites. If you wonder why we don't just call people "hermaphrodites" in medical term it's because hermaphrodites already have its meaning in biology to refer to species that have both sexual organs and can reproduce with one another. For humans, we don't just call them hermaphrodites but we use the medical term "true hermaphrodites". I explain more about why true hermaphrodites have certain characteristics below.
I already explained that being born with an additional set is impossible unless you've got two nuclei growing on their own but that would make you conjoined twins rather than a single person.
Chimerism gives you extra dna material but doesn't grow extra arm or leg or anything else. All intersex studies have pointed out how it is impossible to have 2 full sets of working sexual organs. You have 1 set of intermediate mesoderm to develop from and that's it, and all it can do is develop into a mixture of them. So if it happens in the eye, one eye has a different colour than the other. In the case of genitals, one of the testicle/ovary may become testicle and the other may become ovary or the phallus becomes penis rather than clit like and the vagina becomes vagina (let's just simplify the terms than using mesodermic terms). But having both testciles showing and still retaining ovaries is impossible. This mentioned case here in fact makes the person medically a true hermaphrodite. Also, case studies show that true hermaphroditism comes from chimerism. So, you are actually partially right about chimerism but just wrong that they give you two sets of sexual organs. Are we clear on this?
This wasn't even the reasoning I told you why you can't have both full set of testicles and full set of ovaries, or having the scrotum hanging over the vagina. Do you have comprehensive problem? I already explained how it is possible to have two sets of intermediate mesoderm to develop into both sets of counterparts but it's only possible to have two sets of mesoderm when you're a conjoined person. Sometimes the other part of the conjoined person may not have a brain but most certainly it would have extra arms and legs. You wouldn't want to see it in fap material. And it certainly wouldn't look like the way it's depicted in 'full package futanari'. They would be facing different sides.
And fantasy bases on reality. Like magic conjures fire and fire causes thing to heat up and burn and light up. The same way all fantasy draw humans that resemble real humans anatomically. Otherwise, they just look like monster like the Slannesh beings you see in Warhammer.
When you draw testicles above the vagina, never mind what I said above about genetics and straight people having no interest in balls, where is the skin hanging from? It's like there is no solid contact to carry the weight of the balls. It feels like they are gonna drop any moment. I have no interest over balls but each time I see them, it makes me feel like my own scrotum is gonna rip any moment and I can feel pain whenever I see one of those.
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If after all we said and you still don't get it, you have to be either pretty self-centered or I don't know... just reevaluate yourself a bit.