Mhiggey

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Jun 5, 2018
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We can't, actually, per Steam policies. The game has to be released on Steam first.
So how accurate is the November release date on DLsite then? Since this foreseen rejection will apparently push it back to November. Not the end of October though, apparently. Hopefully the extra month of Patreon funding will help.

we can't go past November cause I'm maxed out in terms of finances
At least the voice-acted databanks will be worth it though. Imagine, for example, if Skyrim had people reading out all of the books you found!
 

Severthe

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Aug 17, 2019
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Long-time lurker on this forum, but just wanted to wish you and the team good luck with the launch, HentaiWriter. I first played the electric level demo for this game years ago now, and was super impressed by the quality. Since then I've followed development off and on, and I've got to say I'm possibly even more impressed with the quality and quantity of your communication with the community than I am by the game demos themselves haha

Looking forward to playing it when it's out!
 

punhetas

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Multiple reasons why we couldn't (or wouldn't want to) do this;

- As the game has been separated by levels all the way up until about early this year, there would have been no way to have "five playable demos" in Early Access, so the game would have come off as being much more incomplete than it actually was (if Steam even allowed us to put it up there in split levels as-is).

- Early Access is something you generally need to do very early on; the way Steam handles visibility periods, wishlists, and so forth for Early Access is very different than it is for normal releases. TL;DR if we switched to Early Release right now, we'd probably cut our profits in half, at the very least, because Early Access depends on people purchasing the game in exchange for far less visbility from Steam/visibility periods (algorithmically).

- Early Access is also something that would draw us right back into the trap that we had set for ourselves unintentionally with Patreon, which is that we'd need to provide frequent playable builds, which eats up development time massively. When you do a playable build, you need to "close the game up" so to speak; everything needs to work for the most part, existing programming needs to get "snipped" so it performs cleanly, writing needs to be checked, etc. to have a presentable thing that isn't just a mess of "in-progress" parts, especially for something that's going to likely get spread around the internet. We wanted to charge forward with development as fast as possible, which is why we also stopped the monthly demos on Patreon.

- Given the way we've setup stuff, it would likely lead to a lot of complaints from people playing early access, as perception of what was complete/what was missing would likely be very deceptive without the context of how our development process is setup.

For clarification on that last note, I've got something like 100 cutscenes left to plug into the game. Now, if you played the game at this point, you'd be missing all these cutscenes and such, and think that we're months or even years behind.

However, just yesterday, while writing more cutscenes/ripping audio, I also managed to get 10 cutscenes plugged into the game.

This is because not only is the writing/audio/art done for these scenes, but the way I've been writing them is a "manual-parsing" system (where I copy-paste this info for the most part, box by box, into the game). It requires a lot of initial setup as I'm writing the scenes, but when it comes time to plug them into the game, it makes it ridiculously fast to do so.

Here's a screenshot of one scene as an example;

View attachment 2080433

With this, I've got;
  • Talia's emotions listed (for the emotion selector in-game)
  • The NPC's general mood down (for whatever visual emotions I want to give them in-game)
  • Flags set and checked
  • Ideal values added and subtracted
  • Choices in the cutscene
  • Entity actions (movement, directional changes, damage taken/given, and a lot of other things)
  • Voice filenames so I can just quickly eye what voicelines are attached to what script lines
  • "Blue lines" so I know what lines are repeated between cutscene tabs, so I can quickly clone them between tabs
So hopefully all of that clarifies some stuff.



If they did this, then they didn't have a store page up on Steam at the time they released to Epic.
That, or they were a huge AAA publisher/developer and had the weight to swing around to ignore policy.
You lost me at the "the game won't probably be approved because it has no ending in the submitted build".

It was submitted to steam so you didn't have to justify the "nth" delay, but ended submitting a guaranteed fail on purpose just to claim to have submitted it in the deadline.
You get an A in communication but you need to learn better management skills for your next project.

That said, good luck with the launch , sincerely.

No need replying, use that time to finish the game instead.
 

HentaiWriter

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Mhiggey said:
So how accurate is the November release date on DLsite then? Since this foreseen rejection will apparently push it back to November. Not the end of October though, apparently. Hopefully the extra month of Patreon funding will help.
The DLSite date was set to November because the game won't come out anywhere but Steam and Itch for the first month or so, as the first month is a soft launch while we finish a few more things, and we can update on Itch and Steam ourselves, while other sites need approval from the site owners to get new updates up.

So we set the DLSite release date to a month after our projected release date on Steam.

And no, unfortunately, the extra month of Patreon funding will not keep us going another month. My cut from it pays for my rent and electricity basically. Still getting hit on car payments, phone bill, food, internet, credit card payments, etc.

Mhiggey said:
At least the voice-acted databanks will be worth it though. Imagine, for example, if Skyrim had people reading out all of the books you found!
The Databanks have already all been voiced since nearly the beginning of the year.

The stuff we're getting done now is the cutscenes (and writing, and programming, and bugtesting, all irrelevant of voicework), which, according to F95 reviews, polls on twitter/patreon, and Discord, is one of the main selling points of the game, so yes, it is absolutely worth it to have everything voiced.

(Plus, even if it wasn't a selling point, we'd still do it anyways, because as noted before, this is the game we want to make, and that's all that really matters.)

widow0011 said:
Long-time lurker on this forum, but just wanted to wish you and the team good luck with the launch, HentaiWriter. I first played the electric level demo for this game years ago now, and was super impressed by the quality. Since then I've followed development off and on, and I've got to say I'm possibly even more impressed with the quality and quantity of your communication with the community than I am by the game demos themselves haha

Looking forward to playing it when it's out!
Glad to hear it :D thanks a lot, I do think the final game will be way better than the Electric Demo for sure.
 
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dragonsix6969

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It looks like the game will never come out. if they are refuse them like that or even they can ban her, I think I should forget about this game, it is already turning into Duke Nukem Forever or like of my favorite game beyond good and evil.
 
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HentaiWriter

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It looks like the game will never come out. if they are refuse them like that or even they can ban her, I think I should forget about this game, it is already turning into Duke Nukem Forever or like of my favorite game beyond good and evil.
If Steam actually banned us, we'd put it on other platforms; you know that, right?

Like, I have $50,000 in debt, that's not gonna pay itself off by itself lol, the game has to come out, and it has to come out soon, because I don't have anymore room on my credit cards. If we could push it another month or two to make it 100% complete I would, but we literally don't have that option.

Also, Duke Nukem Forever is a bad comparison because they switched engines like 4 times and redid all the content from the ground up multiple times; we did neither. We just have a lot of content made by a very, very small team, which is why it's taken so long.
 

Dexhellhound

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Apr 18, 2018
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If Steam actually banned us, we'd put it on other platforms; you know that, right?

Like, I have $50,000 in debt, that's not gonna pay itself off by itself lol, the game has to come out, and it has to come out soon, because I don't have anymore room on my credit cards. If we could push it another month or two to make it 100% complete I would, but we literally don't have that option.

Also, Duke Nukem Forever is a bad comparison because they switched engines like 4 times and redid all the content from the ground up multiple times; we did neither. We just have a lot of content made by a very, very small team, which is why it's taken so long.
i don't know why but if i was in your shoes id tung and cheek a special edition and call it future fragments forever :p
 

dragonsix6969

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HentaiWriter
no, the duke received a lot of money and they are like, "why are we need a hurry?" + their word “When it’s done” and that’s it, they don’t care about the release. It wasn't until they really ran out of money that they released that game.
 

HentaiWriter

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HentaiWriter
no, the duke received a lot of money and they are like, "why are we need a hurry?" + their word “When it’s done” and that’s it, they don’t care about the release. It wasn't until they really ran out of money that they released that game.
But they did switch engines multiple times, and have to rebuild the game from scratch multiple times.

Also, if money was our prime motivator, we would have made a far different game than this, taking far less effort and probably getting like 20x the money, but we wanted to make the game we wanted to make, essentially.

That said, we do have a LOT of game ideas we want to do, so we don't want to sit on FF forever, we really do want to get it out ASAP so we can start on new games, new genres, new ideas, etc. we're not immortal, we've only got so many years we can actually make games in, and every day spent on FF is another day less we have for future games.
 
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dragonsix6969

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I'm sorry, I'm losing motivation, every time you say that's the release, and again, here's the release, and again and again and again, we will definitely release the game in September and then suddenly it turns out that you didn't add something to the game. I understand that you want the game to be perfect, but you keep adding something over and over again and this delays the release even more, i think you need to finish with this, even if there are bugs, even if there are errors, it will all take forever until you do everything. I realized 2 things if the game does not come out for a long time it is either it is in production hell or we just need money. Night Of Revenge is true giga chad right now, his alone do very good job.
 

HentaiWriter

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I'm sorry, I'm losing motivation, every time you say that's the release, and again, here's the release, and again and again and again, we will definitely release the game in September and then suddenly it turns out that you didn't add something to the game. I understand that you want the game to be perfect
It's not about the game being perfect, it's about it having core content. We don't want to release the game without the final boss fight working, without the endings, without the cutscenes for the last two levels in the game, without the Ideals system working correctly, without half the sound effects in the game in, etc.

but you keep adding something over and over again and this delays the release even more
We haven't added in any new content that wasn't already planned since 2019 or so. It's literally finishing the content we had planned since then.

i think you need to finish with this, even if there are bugs, even if there are errors, it will all take forever until you do everything.
None of the delays have been because of bugs. Most of the bugs are done, and any remaining are very tiny ones. Again, it's about core content. If we got in all the things we truly wanted to get in, we'd be working on this game for another 3 years. We're not even remotely close to "perfect" with what we wanted for the game.

I realized 2 things if the game does not come out for a long time it is either it is in production hell or we just need money. Night Of Revenge is true giga chad right now, his alone do very good job.
Or, the game (like ours) has a ton of content, done by a team that's 1/100th the size of an AAA team (3 core people, two audio people, and a ton of voice actors). Not production hell or needing money, just needing time.

Heck, here's a list of the things we removed from what we had planned for the game to further drive home that we're not aiming for perfection;

- Being able to play through the entire game with a second set of cutscenes in a sort of "genocide mode" with new endings for it
- Playing through the whole game as Faye
- More enemies per level
- Enemies having elemental immunity to your abilities
- An entire item based system of using potions and other items to buff your character
- Much much more content for the True Final Boss
- Multiple full vocal songs for bosses
- Much larger areas
- Portraits for all NPCs and enemies during cutscenes
- A full range of facial expressions for Talia's GUI in the upper left
- Visual modifiers to make the game look CRT style or other styles
- The level editor allowing you to inject your own art/audio
- Powerups were originally going to give extra boosts if you had three equipped in a set theme (set boosts)
- There were going to be secret mini-bosses in each level that would have tied into a larger, arcing theme across our games
- Talia was going to have a ground pound of sorts as her earth ability
- You were going to be able to have a second, secret way to beat each boss
- Beating a level would bring up a tally that would have had lots of data on your performance etc.
- The ice level enemies were originally going to be mythological beasts/creatures
- The stealth area was going to originally be much, much more complex programming/aesthetically
- The struggle mechanic was, for a brief period, going to be something where you'd actually put in commands to break out
- The fire area was, for a brief period, going to have a mechanic where you'd knock rocks down from the ceiling to plug lava spouts or have the lava spout burst to blow a rock across an area as a platform
- The fire area was also, for a longer period, going to have a type of room where you'd have to run through it as fast as possible to get through before actual 1-hit-ko lava caught up with you
- The ice level was going to have all the enemies react to sound when you walked on snow vs ice (this was later used for the infected grunt)
- The electric area's milk machines were going to deposit milk bottles on the machine, which would then heal enemies that walked past it
- The earth area was going to have a tentacle vine that would have reached down from ceilings to grab you as you passed by if you didn't dodge it or shoot it
- The ice level was going to have an environmental trap where a round, smooth icicle would pop up and penetrate talia, which would then melt over time
- The End's mechanics were going to involve a decent amount of use of the fact that time "freezes" in the other dimension when you're in the one you're in, so we were going to have puzzles where you'd have to say, fire a shot in the real world, then jump to the alter world quickly, run around, and end up in a portal back on the other side of the real world portion of the map before the bullet hits, for the platform to stretch a certain way and carry you through the map
- The boss fight for the fire level was originally going to be a huge version of the flying imp/glider enemy; the blob version was also, at one point, going to be invincible and you would have to outrun it until it hit a wall and died
- Reading silver databanks would have given you "code letters" per databank, which, when put together, could be unscrambled to get a secret sex animation for that level
- The earth power you'd get for beating the boss was also, at one point, going to be an ability to fast-travel using vines you rammed into the ground or wall (so teleporting through the ground/walls basically), but this turned into the portal system/stretchy platforms, so there became no use for it
- We also considered giving her an earth attack (not utility ability) that would have healed her upon hitting enemies with it by leeching their energy, but this was decided to be way too broken


And that's just a small list, there's way more than this we've cut out/didn't do because we knew it'd be unfeasible.
So definitely haven't "added stuff", and have definitely cut a ton of planned content over the years to get the game out ASAP.
 
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johnnyporngames

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Nov 9, 2021
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I feel like your reply doesn't touch on the actual issue he stated.
He's saying it feels bad to come here and see you say it will be out in march 2022, then in march it's pushed to summer, then in summer it's this year, etc. It doesn't matter if your reason is good, as a consumer it feels bad.

That's why most developers try to avoid absolute dates, or in this case I guess year long time frames lol.


(all the dates were pulled out of my ass, to help convey my point before that gets nitpicked)

Edit:
Also game looks cool and high quality, hope it brings you success.
 
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HentaiWriter

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I feel like your reply doesn't touch on the actual issue he stated.
He's saying it feels bad to come here and see you say it will be out in march 2022, then in march it's pushed to summer, then in summer it's this year, etc. It doesn't matter if your reason is good, as a consumer it feels bad.
Oh I agree; it feels awful for us too, because we REALLY want to get this game out there.

So yeah, for future games, no more release dates until the game is literally done.

Also game looks cool and high quality, hope it brings you success.
Thanks a lot :) we hope so too, so we can afford to make more games.
 
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