Feb 15, 2019
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Like i said, even the dev said "ntr/sharing" and the moderator who changed agree with that that too, so if they think is right, who i'm i to change that? The main problem is there is a shit ton of war of the ntr and the anti-ntr players, if everyone respect the choices of the others there will no problem, like i said, i don't like ntr/sharing, but i respect those that like, so why not everyone could do that? If i don't like somenting, i could ask "hey, you have plans to put this or that" but i will never said "hey, your fetish is a piece of shit, remove this", talking and asking is different than asking to remove somenting.
Yes but like I already said, there is a difference between sharing and NTR and I'm not sure why you keep grouping them together. That's like pairing swinging and cuckolding together. I've spoken with the dev personally on his discord and he wasn't even aware of the NTR term let alone that those one or two dudes would be so irate about it.

Even if the moderator has added the tag, I can still stand by my opinion that there is no NTR in this game and there was no need for the tag to begin with. This opinion isn't anything against the mod or the dev, it's against the anti-NTR guys that pressured for the tag to be added in the first place.

The posters have yet to give an actual concrete example of it and no offence but neither have you. Those examples of sharing and prostituting the women are not the same thing as NTR. Refer to my earlier posts in this thread - Something Unlimited also has the same mechanic with your harem (pimping them out at your own discretion) but isn't labelled as an NTR game so why should this one be? It was established from the very beginning that the ladies are meant for Grolokk AND the horde, they're meant to be passed around to further Grolokk's ambitions - so where is the NTR exactly?

Anyways, this topic is just beating a dead horse now. You're right that people shouldn't drag others for their tastes, we're in agreement there. My main point is that if folks are going to complain then at least make sure those complaints are accurate.
 
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hrimthyrs

Member
May 6, 2020
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By that logic then 2/3 of the users on this website are susceptible to the rhetoric that they should fuck their sisters and mothers.
There's not a cluster of political ideologies that have incest as a core tenet. There is such a cluster pushing old-fashioned gender roles.
 

hrimthyrs

Member
May 6, 2020
413
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Yes there is, look up a map of consanguineous marriages and draw some parallels. Laws against incest are a very new thing, my friend.
Ancient Rome classified incest as contrary to divine law and forbade consanguineous marriage within four degrees, which the early Christian church inherited and then in the Ninth Century increased to seven degrees, which actually made it difficult for European noble houses to find spouses within their social class. The Torah forbids incest on pain of death, and both Christianity and Islam inherited this prohibition. The Rigveda considers incest abhorrent and forbids marrying within one's own gotra. Ancient China forbade marriage as distant as first cousins. Ancient Egypt's ruling family was the exception even within their own culture, and incest was forbidden for every class below royalty. Anthropological research has found the incest taboo is one of the few cultural universals, and "laws against incest are a very new thing" is a statement as false as "the Earth is flat".
 
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goatwhisperer3

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Jul 22, 2017
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Should have read the rant on the couple of last pages earlier. The unavoidable "sharing" (getting cucked would be more accurate, since u have no say in it and ur "servant" makes the dominant decision for you) got me on the wrong foot.

First area was pretty nice, will probably dodge the game for several updates tho and just check out the cg folder in later stages. Not interested in being part of the Millers Daughters Harem.^^
 

hrimthyrs

Member
May 6, 2020
413
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I told you to look up that map for a reason, but I guess you just didn't want to put in the effort of a google search.
You mean the google search I did where I found research papers on the topic citing the actual laws and scriptural passages? The laws throughout history are very consistent that "incest bad" has been the default political position. Again, there's not a cluster of political ideologies that have incest as a core tenet. It's something rejected across the political spectrum.
 

hrimthyrs

Member
May 6, 2020
413
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All I'm saying is that fetishes and whatever else preferences people have are not a sign of what their political beliefs are.
Literally not the argument you've ever made prior to this. You started out by invoking incest kinks as a counter to my comment about people trying to force NTR tags on games without NTR content because of their politics and, when I pointed out there is no incest-based political ideology (i.e. that your comparison was apples-to-oranges), you've obstinately insisted such an ideology existed and made easily disproved statements about the history of incest laws and demanded I cherry-pick some map.

Once again, NTR isn't a catch-all for "(female) non-monogamy", it's a specific genre where the focus is on the character's emotional distress at finding out they're being cheated on. Swinging is not NTR. It's not a requirement of harems that the MC have exclusive access to the members of the harem, so a game that includes sharing them out (e.g. this game, which has made it clear since the beginning that exclusivity wasn't going to be the case) isn't NTR. Cheating isn't even NTR unless the partner being cheated on 1) finds out and 2) is upset by it.

F95zone has separate tags for these (Cheating, Harem, NTR, Swinging) exactly because they are not the same, and anybody actually interested in accurate tagging would not be pushing the one that specifically has the most negative portrayal of women being promiscuous on games that don't have that negative portrayal. The only reason to insist clearly non-NTR games should be tagged NTR is because of a philosophy that bad things come from women not being monogamous. This is something that is 100% a reflection of ideology.

I myself dislike NTR and, if I weren't already familiar with this game, I would have passed it by because of that tag, meaning I wouldn't have played it, let alone started supporting it on Patreon, and this is exactly why I've pushed back so hard whenever the topic of that tag has come up. So, no, this isn't a matter of "fetishes and whatever else preferences people have are not a sign of what their political beliefs are", this is a matter of people with a particular set of political beliefs trying to sabotage games that don't conform to their worldview by pushing inaccurate, polarizing tags on them in the hopes of driving off players by manipulating their likes and dislikes.
 

hakarlman

Engaged Member
Jul 30, 2017
2,135
3,352
Can someone simply explain what kind of NTR it is?

Do the girls cheat behind your back?
Do you pimp them out?
Do you get off on watching them get fucked by others?
Is it Netorase, where you're stealing girls from other guys?

What is it exactly?
 

Midge

Well-Known Member
Nov 21, 2019
1,220
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Can someone simply explain what kind of NTR it is?

Do the girls cheat behind your back?
Do you pimp them out?
Do you get off on watching them get fucked by others?
Is it Netorase, where you're stealing girls from other guys?

What is it exactly?
Possably 1 scene in chapter 2, very maybe arguably 2 scenes in chapter 1.
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TBH no one in Grolokks herem is there out of loyalty to him as they all have their own agendas and plan on leaving him after it's done(regardless of if they acually do or not or develop that loyalty later[as in after now]). And i thought they were also for the use of the warband as well so there's that.
 
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hrimthyrs

Member
May 6, 2020
413
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Can someone simply explain what kind of NTR it is?
The stuff people are claiming is NTR doesn't meet the but what I've seen cited as NTR is mostly a gangbang scene in Chapter 2. There were plenty of clues that I guess they somehow missed prior to that scene getting added that being available for all members of the horde was a job requirement for the harem girls, which negates any expectation of the "internal distress" and "cheating" parts of the definition, but that's just me on my soapbox again. The developer has also mentioned 60s and 70s rock bands as an inspiration, and they're famous for passing the groupies around. It postdates the argument about that scene, but the in-game instruction manual for the harem management system in the newest release mentions getting the groupies harem girls to sleep around as a way to loosen their morals (i.e. unlock content). It doesn't seem like the MC gets off on it, but it's been clear from the beginning that he's not going to be the only guy in the scenes with these women.

This is very much a folklore- and D&D-inspired version of goblins who are too busy chasing whatever shiny or ass caught their eye last to bother with the tedious job of enforcing fidelity in the harem.
 

stansalino

Active Member
Jul 18, 2017
502
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There is a mechanism to be able to do it:
You have a witch that just regained a portion of her powers when you helped her make a potion.
Supposedly, she was supremely powerful once.
Create a second potion that restores her fully and she could revive the red headed woman.
If the developer is inclined to add it to the story.
Does that mean that you can revive and then fuck the redhead?
 

caju

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2017
1,313
1,261
Does that mean that you can revive and then fuck the redhead?
Revive, sure, but I doubt it would change her personality.
Though, I would think being revived would make her a bit more thankful. I am sure she would at least let you sit on your own throne.
 

AlexTorch

Engaged Member
Jun 22, 2017
2,576
4,058
Can someone simply explain what kind of NTR it is?
Do the girls cheat behind your back?
Do you pimp them out?
Do you get off on watching them get fucked by others?
Is it Netorase, where you're stealing girls from other guys?
What is it exactly?
You can "steal" a wife and dauthter of a merchant, and this too.
Grolokk.png Grolokk2.png Grolokk3.png
She is part of his harem, and in the game, more woman in the harem = better stats.
 
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Malkav

Active Member
May 28, 2017
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F95zone has separate tags for these (Cheating, Harem, NTR, Swinging) exactly because they are not the same, and anybody actually interested in accurate tagging would not be pushing the one that specifically has the most negative portrayal of women being promiscuous on games that don't have that negative portrayal. The only reason to insist clearly non-NTR games should be tagged NTR is because of a philosophy that bad things come from women not being monogamous. This is something that is 100% a reflection of ideology.
While I agree on all your points about what is ntr and not, I think you are overreaching by pinning this disagreement on political ideology.
I think biology is much more appropriate. A man wanting his dna to be the one spread across the world goes hand in hand with our reproductive system, unlike the female reproductive system with a 9 month vulnerable incubation period which speaks to monogamy (she can only carry one man's child at the time and needs protection while vulnerable)

I am not saying every man has a pregnancy fetish, but surely we agree on men having a higher sexdrive and prefer multiple sexual partners were it socially acceptable.

It is not like the conservative party (I am assuming US politics) has any laws on gender roles or their monogamy that differ from that of the liberal party. Nor do the political philosophers each ideology has its base in.

wanting games tagged differently that what is correct is just a matter of stupidity.
 

hrimthyrs

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May 6, 2020
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I think biology is much more appropriate. A man wanting his dna to be the one spread across the world goes hand in hand with our reproductive system, unlike the female reproductive system with a 9 month vulnerable incubation period which speaks to monogamy (she can only carry one man's child at the time and needs protection while vulnerable)
This is contrary to the findings of anthropology. I recommend Mothers and Others by Dr. Sarah Hrdy (yes, Hrdy, not Hardy) for an accessible primer on the topic. The TL;DR is that it takes almost 20 years and 2 million calories to get a human from conception to ready to have children of their own. Meanwhile, siblings are spaced out every 4 years or so in hunter-gatherer societies, meaning that the work needed to maintain a family is more than a pair of humans can manage on their own, and death rates by hunting accident are high enough that there's a decent probability that half of the pair isn't even going to be around the entire time. The only effective strategy to ensure a given child gets the support that they need to survive to adulthood is if nobody in the band knows who sired which kid, so that all the men will chip in a little for each one and if one man gets chomped by a lion or gored while hunting a buffalo, his offspring will still have enough caretakers to ensure they make it to adulthood and pass on his genes to the next generation.

It is not like the conservative party (I am assuming US politics) has any laws on gender roles or their monogamy that differ from that of the liberal party. Nor do the political philosophers each ideology has its base in.
There's marked differences in proposals WRT all kinds of sex-specific policies between the two major parties in the US, from abortion access to pay equity. With the thought leaders the divide is even more stark, with some conservative commentators (including one woman I can think of off the top of my head who's been popular since the 90s) openly lamenting that women even have the vote. And, yes, there's been a constant theme for at least the quarter century or so I've been paying attention of one side brushing off male infidelity (sometimes by even turning the blame onto the wife for having a career instead of dedicating her life to pleasing him) while excoriating promiscuous women even when they stay single and therefore aren't cheating when they play the field.

Every single game thread on this site that I've ever looked through has an argument about NTR. It's so pervasive that the other day I noticed somebody had even coined the term "ntrguments". That there's one particular tag that so consistently gets pushed when it doesn't apply indicates there's more going on than mere stupidity, and the fact that it's the tag for games that portray female promiscuity in the most negative light is too convenient for certain ideologies to be a coincidence.

I say: bring on the all-harem, all-horde orgy scene! Bring on Sheeriku grinning triumphantly while splattered with five different (humanoid) species' cum!

People who say porn shouldn't even exist while themselves secretly consuming it say: OMG! Women can only be monogamous and if they're not it is violence against me as a porn player! Tag this with a tag that doesn't apply so I can avoid the traumatic idea that women can possibly be interested in more than one man at a time!
 

Malkav

Active Member
May 28, 2017
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This is contrary to the findings of anthropology. I recommend Mothers and Others by Dr. Sarah Hrdy (yes, Hrdy, not Hardy) for an accessible primer on the topic. The TL;DR is that it takes almost 20 years and 2 million calories to get a human from conception to ready to have children of their own. Meanwhile, siblings are spaced out every 4 years or so in hunter-gatherer societies, meaning that the work needed to maintain a family is more than a pair of humans can manage on their own, and death rates by hunting accident are high enough that there's a decent probability that half of the pair isn't even going to be around the entire time. The only effective strategy to ensure a given child gets the support that they need to survive to adulthood is if nobody in the band knows who sired which kid, so that all the men will chip in a little for each one and if one man gets chomped by a lion or gored while hunting a buffalo, his offspring will still have enough caretakers to ensure they make it to adulthood and pass on his genes to the next generation.



There's marked differences in proposals WRT all kinds of sex-specific policies between the two major parties in the US, from abortion access to pay equity. With the thought leaders the divide is even more stark, with some conservative commentators (including one woman I can think of off the top of my head who's been popular since the 90s) openly lamenting that women even have the vote. And, yes, there's been a constant theme for at least the quarter century or so I've been paying attention of one side brushing off male infidelity (sometimes by even turning the blame onto the wife for having a career instead of dedicating her life to pleasing him) while excoriating promiscuous women even when they stay single and therefore aren't cheating when they play the field.

Every single game thread on this site that I've ever looked through has an argument about NTR. It's so pervasive that the other day I noticed somebody had even coined the term "ntrguments". That there's one particular tag that so consistently gets pushed when it doesn't apply indicates there's more going on than mere stupidity, and the fact that it's the tag for games that portray female promiscuity in the most negative light is too convenient for certain ideologies to be a coincidence.

I say: bring on the all-harem, all-horde orgy scene! Bring on Sheeriku grinning triumphantly while splattered with five different (humanoid) species' cum!

People who say porn shouldn't even exist while themselves secretly consuming it say: OMG! Women can only be monogamous and if they're not it is violence against me as a porn player! Tag this with a tag that doesn't apply so I can avoid the traumatic idea that women can possibly be interested in more than one man at a time!
As I read your points are as follows:
Among primates and early humans extrapar relations are a necessity for reproductive success
I think for a specific point in evolutionary history this might have been the case for humans or at least our ancestors. But I can find studies showing males are less likely to provide paternal care to offspring they think aren't their own. I can find studies showing that male extramarital sex is much more prevalent throughout most cultures in the world. Given that my original argument was biology, going to far into cultural adaptation happening after our last evolution is probably not a way i want to go with this.

I don't think it is entirely inconceivable that our cultural evolutions stem from our biology though. Having social norms and early laws spring from our desire to survive seems perfectly logical to me. I will give you that early primate reproductive success might favor a sort of flock mentality in regards to sexual relations.
I think this drastically changes in early human society though. Ancient Greece, Rome, Egypt, Mesopotamia, and Israel all developed and had laws favoring monogamy.

Conservative politicians having a different take on pay equity or abortion is to dismiss female promiscuity while being accepting of male promiscuity
You have to remember that in the mindset of a conservative, the other side of pay equity arguments are not that women should earn less than men (I assume this topic is relevant because you equal money with the ability to sleep around, which I agree with). The other side of arguments regarding pay equity is that it already exists. Any data showcasing women earning less money than men has to also present what careers we are talking about and individual factors like how big a part of their life each person's career is.
There is nothing misogynistic about women favoring lower paid jobs, in fact the few women that do work in male dominated fields and have equal education might even get paid more than their male counterparts.

Now remember, we are not arguing the glass ceiling, i am showing you that in the conservative mindset, any additional laws regarding pay equity would either be unnecessary or outright discriminatory.

It is the same with abortion. The conservative mindset is either that abortions are ok but should not be founded by tax or that they are bad and we should fight for preserving life. None of these lines of thought directly prohibits a women's ability to sleep around. Not in a world where contraceptives exist. I see there is actually an argument here that women having less money equals less ability to pay for contraceptives, but on this side of the aisle, the amount of money you have equals the amount of effort you put into earning money, and lets face it, contraceptives are not that expensive.

For me to present the otherside of the argument about a theme you have noticed about celebrating male infidelity and shaming female, i would need specifics because I am not familiar with any such cases.


The ntr tag on f95zone is negative, and is being pushed to artificially add negatively to games portraying female promiscuity.

My own take on the fetish is close to yours. I basically just want all kinds of sexual relations. Watching people fuck comes first. It doesn't matter if there is a story about cheating or incest involved. In fact I think it is paradoxical to be heavily against other people having sex when that is basically what pornography is.
This anti-ntr crowd is very verbal and the mere inclusion of it in a game will completely ruin their entire experience. I have no idea how this works. I can easily play Discipline -The Record of a Crusade- and just fast forward through the scat (something I personally think is a turn off) while this anti-ntr crowd can't do the same for an ntr scene.

If we assume you are right and there is a group of people wanting to use the NTR tag to negatively promote games featuring sexual kinks they don't favor I would much rather pin this on stupidity or immaturity than political beliefs. I at least do not see the correlation.
 
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UnDeaD_CyBorG

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Apr 6, 2018
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While I find the recent ntr wars mostly irritating, and I somewhat pity people who are actually into ntr because half the games tagged as such by now probably don't even contain any, I'd just like to chime in that I find it hilarious and beautiful to find a scientific discussion on a porn game forum.(y)
 
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gacorman70

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Game Developer
Oct 17, 2017
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While I find the recent ntr wars mostly irritating, and I somewhat pity people who are actually into ntr because half the games tagged as such by now probably don't even contain any, I'd just like to chime in that I find it hilarious and beautiful to find a scientific discussion on a porn game forum.(y)
I was gonna say! Here I am sitting down to F95zone with a cup of Earl Grey Tea and my Reading glasses.
 
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BobCarter

Active Member
Jan 28, 2018
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If you think the NTR things are bad, just be glad your not into gay shit, that shit wars been going on for way longer. (Most run away from the gay tags, I RUN TOWARDS THEM)

But on a side note, can the two goblins get some Yaoi content?
 
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BySorax231

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Sep 9, 2017
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Whats the content in chapter 2 is it only the gate battle and the little city scenes or I am missing something because I just started the game and I cannot proceed any further.
 
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