Gumroad to ban most NSFW content

[Hagatagar]

Well, come on. "no lewds for everybody anymore" is too simplified.

Poor wording on my part (wanted to keep the TL;DR too short )

Better would be "No more borderline illegal lewds for everyone anymore, especially on sites that aren't exclusive for that (these may no longer have any at all)".

 

[gola16]

Well atleast they’re has been a bombardment of gumroad backups popping up on kemono and it seems that they ban is taking effect as people on twitter can’t buy from some artists now hopefully the people on kemono can store/backup as much as possible before they start gumroad removes those pages themselves

 

[Count Morado]

Damn well does that mean each creator has to put something along the lines of a speech bubble saying they consent to what is happening for them to get a pass on Patreon?

No/Maybe/Depends. Have you read Patreon's community guidelines?

Statements by creators such as "all characters depicted are ages 18+" and "even when scenes look non-consensual, they are consensual" are not accepted as validation.

Characters must appear 18+, not just simply stated. Patreon appears to be using the reasonable person standard. For consensual scenes, it would be similar in process - most likely the scene must show explicit consent or Patreon may use the reasonable person standard.

If a reasonable person would consider the content as within the guidelines, then Patreon should follow suit. A reasonable person is represented by the average F95 registered account user. It would be represented by the overall society's perspective.

Edit: For example. A couple of adults go on a date to dinner and a movie. At the end of the movie, one invites the other up to their apartment for drinks. They engage in chit chat, and there is mutual caressing and kissing. Things get a bit hotter and the actions show each character becoming more bold in their fondling. They dialogue shows they are each enjoying the other's attention. The person whose apartment they are in takes the hand of the other and walks toward the bedroom. The other person follows with a smile and posture that shows joy and excitement. Throughout the entire scene, even without saying "Hey, I consent to having your cock inside my ass" or "Yo, yup, you can sit on my face and take a ride, I wanna make you slippery while wet" - the context shows that both adults are consenting. If, at any time, that changes, it then becomes non-consenting.

 

[gola16]

No/Maybe/Depends. Have you read Patreon's community guidelines?

Statements by creators such as "all characters depicted are ages 18+" and "even when scenes look non-consensual, they are consensual" are not accepted as validation.

Characters must appear 18+, not just simply stated. Patreon appears to be using the reasonable person standard. For consensual scenes, it would be similar in process - most likely the scene must show explicit consent or Patreon may use the reasonable person standard.

If a reasonable person would consider the content as within the guidelines, then Patreon should follow suit. A reasonable person is represented by the average F95 registered account user. It would be represented by the overall society's perspective.

But how can they determine that tho it’s like the phrase beauty is in the eye of the beholder someone in Patreon HR may deem something which completely 18+ but has zero text to be non consensual even though it is but isn’t explicitly stated. Also does that mean only people who do pinups rather than fully fledge comics are going to get a pass?

 

[gola16]

I even forgot to mention nhentai also had a mass purge earlier this month and last month due to irodori comics. I find it baffling that every popular avenue for NSFW art is suddenly getting banned/purged lol. Oh well I am trying to get and upload English collections from that purge section but only the well known and popular artists because there was 16,000 plus works removed from that website and it will be hard finding the translations for all of them

 

[Count Morado]

But how can they determine that tho it’s like the phrase beauty is in the eye of the beholder someone in Patreon HR may deem something which completely 18+ but has zero text to be non consensual even though it is but isn’t explicitly stated. Also does that mean only people who do pinups rather than fully fledge comics are going to get a pass?

I've already answered this question in my edit posted about a minute before your question. Context is king in the determination.

Also, again, it's the reasonable person standard and not my personal opinion standard. In many companies, warnings are done by a single staff member. Suspensions and revocations either require multiple warnings or blatant disregard for guidelines, which would suggest more than a single person to make the decision. That may either require a supervisor's confirmation for the action or similar procedure.

 

[Moe Bahamas]

It actually startet a couple of years ago, with an us-bill from 2018 called FOSTA/SESTA.
Its intent was to stop sex trafficing but because of its phrasing/wording it kinda targeted everything sexual that's in some way illegal (no matter if real or cgi/drawn) and made it that credit card companies are accomplices when used as payment methods for those kind of things and can be held fully accountable to punishment.

Fearing that they will end up in court, the credit card companies threatened all sorts of porn and NSFW sites to withdraw their services if they did not remove such content and change their policies.
Of course, most complied, even such a big site as PornHub. Others have perished because of it.

That's also the reason so many sites have changed their NSFW policies within the last 6 years.


So it's not that the credit card companies want to do that, after all they are missing big money because of it.
One must not forget that companies are not people, they have no morals, they only care about money and their public image, which in itself affects their revenues. Every decision they make is money oriented.



TL;DR: New Us laws in 2018 -> credit card companies might get punished -> they force websites/-services to change their NSFW-policies -> no lewds for everybody anymore ->

So this problem is US exclusive?
US companies (which happen to be the the ones that everybody uses) dont want to be involved with nsfw content. Fair.

I speak from ignorance but isnt the solution very simple? Like just move all ur content to another website that offers a payment method that isnt affected by these US laws. Are there websites that are not affected by this so artists can go there?

 

[gola16]

So this problem is US exclusive?
US companies (which happen to be the the ones that everybody uses) dont want to be involved with nsfw content. Fair.

I speak from ignorance but isnt the solution very simple? Like just move all ur content to another website that offers a payment method that isnt affected by these US laws. Are there websites that are not affected by this so artists can go there?

But the problem is there aren’t many that offer that solution if not all payment solutions are US based for instance PayPal. Pixiv fanbox wouldn’t be able to access a large international customer reach without something secure and international/ easy to access such as PayPal that’s why you see they conform to them because if they don’t they lose international customers both on the nsfw and sfw sides of their platform

 

[Hagatagar]

So this problem is US exclusive?

Sadly, no. Since these laws also affect every company that does business with or within the US or its "jurisdiction". So this includes basically every global acting company.

I speak from ignorance but isnt the solution very simple? Like just move all ur content to another website that offers a payment method that isnt affected by these US laws. Are there websites that are not affected by this so artists can go there?

Problem is that almost every payment processor or credit card company does some sort of business that comes into contact with US laws (even if it is done through third parties), this makes them all liable.
The website and its payment methods would need to not do business with anything US related at all.

"Safe" alternatives would probably only be something located in Russia or the sort, (China or India would also be a possibility, but they have harsh pornography laws).

 

[peterppp]

I looked around for alternatives and ran across

You must be registered to see the links

They're a sex-worker ran/founded website that caters to NSFW stuff, obviously. They posted a tweet about expanding into NSFW art. Could be a way for AVN devs to have another backup for Patreon too, as it seems they have subscription options.

You must be registered to see the links

lol i only see girls wearing diapers.

 

[Mr_caveman]

dang, it's always the payment processing services that are like that.

 

[Jaike]

lol i only see girls wearing diapers.

What's in the spotlight depends on the content you enable. Cis women is mostly diaper stuff. With cis men you see regular gay porn, with trans women you can also see a black trans girl fuck some black dude in the arse. Trans women and nonbinary is kinda mixed, there's again a little diaper stuff in the trans categories.

The site seems really broken for me, though.

 

[rf96]

Edit: For example. A couple of adults go on a date to dinner and a movie. At the end of the movie, one invites the other up to their apartment for drinks. They engage in chit chat, and there is mutual caressing and kissing. Things get a bit hotter and the actions show each character becoming more bold in their fondling. They dialogue shows they are each enjoying the other's attention. The person whose apartment they are in takes the hand of the other and walks toward the bedroom. The other person follows with a smile and posture that shows joy and excitement. Throughout the entire scene, even without saying "Hey, I consent to having your cock inside my ass" or "Yo, yup, you can sit on my face and take a ride, I wanna make you slippery while wet" - the context shows that both adults are consenting. If, at any time, that changes, it then becomes non-consenting.

Boring.

 

[peterppp]

What's in the spotlight depends on the content you enable. Cis women is mostly diaper stuff. With cis men you see regular gay porn, with trans women you can also see a black trans girl fuck some black dude in the arse. Trans women and nonbinary is kinda mixed, there's again a little diaper stuff in the trans categories.

The site seems really broken for me, though.

so are diapers not allowed on onlyfans and pornhub or why does it feel like this site is about diapers? i wouldn't want to spend time on a site where even cis women content was "uh... not for me"

 

[Jaike]

so are diapers not allowed on onlyfans and pornhub or why does it feel like this site is about diapers? i wouldn't want to spend time on a site where even cis women content was "uh... not for me"

There are claims OnlyFans bans it, but

You must be registered to see the links

allows it. So it can be a thing with some OF alternatives.

 

[Reaper9988]

Jesus fuck me christ, the world is broken.

 

[gola16]

There are several other sites people can sell there stuff too such as booth, fansly, justforfans but all of them have restrictions similar to the new restrictions on Patreon and tbh due to credit card companies and their rules and do see further restrictions in the future because of all of this can happen in a small timeframe then we I wouldn’t be surprised if any artists decided to wake up and close up shop sooner or later. A lot of artists tend to be annoyed by kemono but to be honest if they decide to retire do to restrictions who will archive their work from the past that’s why I am abit grateful it’s still around because these kinda stuff could happen on a short notice with maximum brutality.

 

[baneini]

Patreon already ruined most games like a decade ago so who cares at this point.

 

[Semetrika]

Edit: For example. A couple of adults go on a date to dinner and a movie. At the end of the movie, one invites the other up to their apartment for drinks. They engage in chit chat, and there is mutual caressing and kissing. Things get a bit hotter and the actions show each character becoming more bold in their fondling. They dialogue shows they are each enjoying the other's attention. The person whose apartment they are in takes the hand of the other and walks toward the bedroom. The other person follows with a smile and posture that shows joy and excitement. Throughout the entire scene, even without saying "Hey, I consent to having your cock inside my ass" or "Yo, yup, you can sit on my face and take a ride, I wanna make you slippery while wet" - the context shows that both adults are consenting. If, at any time, that changes, it then becomes non-consenting.

I think is difference between game, where non-consensual sex scene are glorified and game where have impact in story, but platform doesn't care about it i guess.
Or is possible make non-consensual sex if is here enough context? For example characters have sex, but man want put it in anal and she disagree, but he ignore it and do it anyway, but during anal scene she slap him and leave room. Man will realize he do terrible think and he want fix it.
Can you make non-consexual scene where brother is witness how her sister is raped, but he can't help her because other guys handcuffed him and later want revenge?
Or is allowed only talk about it in game, but can't show nothing explicit?
Weird is some games on patreon break rules, but still allowed and one make big money from it. Or it depends which moderator investigate content?

 

[Count Morado]

I think is difference between game, where non-consensual sex scene are glorified and game where have impact in story, but platform doesn't care about it i guess.
Or is possible make non-consensual sex if is here enough context? For example characters have sex, but man want put it in anal and she disagree, but he ignore it and do it anyway, but during anal scene she slap him and leave room. Man will realize he do terrible think and he want fix it.
Can you make non-consexual scene where brother is witness how her sister is raped, but he can't help her because other guys handcuffed him and later want revenge?
Or is allowed only talk about it in game, but can't show nothing explicit?
Weird is some games on patreon break rules, but still allowed and one make big money from it. Or it depends which moderator investigate content?

Again, it's about context.

If you are making an adult game that has the point of elevating the sexual gratification of your customers, then it has a high likeliness to be determined as against Patreon's guidelines during a review.

Weird is some games on patreon break rules, but still allowed and one make big money from it. Or it depends which moderator investigate content?

1. Last I checked at the end of 2023 of the 7,000 adult game developers on Patreon, fewer than 250 earn more than $4,000 per month on Patreon ($50,000 per year - which is slightly higher than the median individual income in the USA). Of those, fewer than 100 earn more than $8,000 per month ($100,000+ per year).
   
   $50,000 per year in the United States is considered above poverty, but is approximately considered an average "living wage" for the US. I understand "big money" is relative to where a person lives, but... still.
   
   Also, Patreon takes between 5% and 12% of the earnings (plus any other fees, such as payment processors fees that are passed through). When Patreon is taking in tens of millions of dollars each year after paying out a quarter million creators on their site across many categories, do people really think $5,000 - $10,000 from one developer is enough for Patreon to turn their heads to the possibility of losing their payment processors because of not following those processor requirements?
   
   
2. Some games get away with it because no one has reported them or people don't understand the guidelines and the developer is actually within the guidelines.
   
   
3. While there may be some variance, Patreon Safety Team staff should have some kind of adherence review on a semi-regular basis in order to keep their jobs. If they are found to be making decisions that are outside of the expectations for the job, they will have to find a new job.
   
   So, no, with few exceptions, the person who is investigating shouldn't make a difference. Again, with developers who are suspended or removed from Patreon as a result of a decision that the developer violated the guidelines - it's not going to be the decision of just one person on the staff. It's either going to be due to multiple reports and verifications either over time or many all at once, obvious major breaches, repeated willful avoidance of coming into compliance, or lack of communication from the developer after Safety Team has referred violations to be remedied.