Gumroad to ban most NSFW content

[Insomnimaniac Games]

View attachment 3449027

I just don't like being hypocritical. As someone who's told many other devs to not be surprised that they got the boot from patreon, I'd feel icky if I kept on the platform. It actually has very little to do with patreon itself.

Edit: And not 5 minutes later, I just got my substar approved. Nice.

 

[Icarus Media]

I just don't like being hypocritical. As someone who's told many other devs to not be surprised that they got the boot from patreon, I'd feel icky if I kept on the platform. It actually has very little to do with patreon itself.

Edit: And not 5 minutes later, I just got my substar approved. Nice.

Personal principles and integrity, I get it.

 

[Count Morado]

You forgot about artists, and there are many. For example, Sakimichan makes more than $1 million per year. If I remember correctly Patreon makes about a third of their revenues from porn.

You are going off on a tangent, but I'll attempt bridge the two.

For 2020 (before developers could hide earnings?) Patreon paid out over $800 million to creators in that year. If, on the average (between 5% for lite and 12% for premium accounts), they pulled 9% (plus processing and other fees) for the platform's earnings, itself ... That's about $80 million in revenue in 2020. (edit: before someone questions my math - 9% for Patreon's cut and about 3% for other fees removed before they payout to creators. So that's 88% of the monies collected from subscribers being paid out to creators - or 88% of $900 million - 9% of which is over $80 million.)

Since that time, Patreon's activity has increased, not decreased. So we'll make it an even $100 million in earnings in the last year just to make numbers round.

And as of January 2024, based upon the reported payouts (unhidden) to creators - adult games, adult videos, adult animation accounted for 21.6% of the payouts for the month.

If someone thinks Patreon is not going to enforce its guidelines on a creator simply to get $5-$10,000 in a year... or even $100,000 in a year... from a single creator - jeopardizing their contracts with payment processors and thereby putting their entire company's fiscal health and the future of its existence in harm's way -- then the problem is with the person who thinks they would take the risk and that person needs to lose the tinfoil hat.

They aren't going to look the other way for 1/10 of 1% or 1/100 of 1% or 1/200 of 1% of their earnings. Not to risk 100% of their earnings (edit: as well as 100% of the earnings of their quarter of a million creators on their platform).

 

[gola16]

AM I TWEAKING OR DID PATREON JUST FULLY BAN PORN NOW I DIDNT SEE THIS EARLEIR

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

AM I TWEAKING OR DID PATREON JUST FULLY BAN PORN NOW I DIDNT SEE THIS EARLEIR

View attachment 3449108

Read the "Animated or illustrated works" part, and the "Storylines" part closely. Games are fine.

 

[Count Morado]

AM I TWEAKING OR DID PATREON JUST FULLY BAN PORN NOW I DIDNT SEE THIS EARLEIR

View attachment 3449108

You're tweaking HARD.

 

[anne O'nymous]

US companies (which happen to be the the ones that everybody uses) dont want to be involved with nsfw content. Fair.

It's more complicated than this. Among others, Patreon and PayPal are US companies and are involved with NSFW content. The same apply for OnlyFans by example, that goes as far as changing their App to comply with Apple store rules, instead of staying in the easiest path and remove all NSFW content.

Unlike what too many people believe, lured by the too loud moral leagues, the problem isn't NSFW content. Sex sells, and US companies want to earn a lot of money. No, the issue is illegal or borderline legal NSFW content, because they lead to illegal transactions.
NSFW content is already one of the main source of frauds (reason why Patreon had to provision US$ 20 Millions in order to get its NSFW deal with payment processors) and, obviously, illegal or borderline legal NSFW content imply even more frauds. Even if the payment processors aren't the ones that will pay (it's Patreon through its said provision), they are the ones who have to process the frauds, and this have a cost. And, as side effect, the more clients they'll have that will be victims of frauds, the more their competitors will looks like an interesting alternative. It's not moral, it's just business.

 

[gola16]

Read the "Animated or illustrated works" part, and the "Storylines" part closely. Games are fine.

Ahh i see so the pornography they are speacking of is IRL right rather than animated

 

[Reaper9988]

I prefer pixelation to content censorship.

Bit like saying "I prefer Chamber-Pot to Putin".

If we are actually talking about a chamber pot then this statement is true.
I'm just not bothered much by pixelation, sure it'd be better without any censorship but i still prefer it to a content/fetish ban.
Especially since Fanbox and Fantia aren't so bad about none censored stuff, as long as you share it on i.e. Discord and not directly on their site.
So censored on site none censored in some member discord.

Actually Fanbox is on a censorship spree now too(Mostly 3d Content) but that is for a similar reason to patreon. American Payment processors.

 

[Reaper9988]

It's more complicated than this. Among others, Patreon and PayPal are US companies and are involved with NSFW content. The same apply for OnlyFans by example, that goes as far as changing their App to comply with Apple store rules, instead of staying in the easiest path and remove all NSFW content.

Unlike what too many people believe, lured by the too loud moral leagues, the problem isn't NSFW content. Sex sells, and US companies want to earn a lot of money. No, the issue is illegal or borderline legal NSFW content, because they lead to illegal transactions.
NSFW content is already one of the main source of frauds (reason why Patreon had to provision US$ 20 Millions in order to get its NSFW deal with payment processors) and, obviously, illegal or borderline legal NSFW content imply even more frauds. Even if the payment processors aren't the ones that will pay (it's Patreon through its said provision), they are the ones who have to process the frauds, and this have a cost. And, as side effect, the more clients they'll have that will be victims of frauds, the more their competitors will looks like an interesting alternative. It's not moral, it's just business.

I can see that kinda but as far as I know the kinks that Patreon by proxy bans are not illegal by US law per se as long as they are done in an only fictional matter. I know it's also a gray zone in many case, probably intenonally.
Most Credit card company members being Archconservative Evangelist does play a role and focussing on none main stream things that don't have much of a lobby is exactly what these people do.

The bigger problem of course is that the whole Prayment Processor thing in the west is a defacto a monopoly, an american lead monopoly.

 

[CaptainBipto]

Read the "Animated or illustrated works" part, and the "Storylines" part closely. Games are fine.

I am not claiming to 'know better' but on that bullet that you quoted, there is this part as well: ... As long as they comply with Patreon's other guidelines.
For myself, that says that Patreon can nuke even animated/cartoon games, if they break the Pornography and Nudity rules.

As an example:
Apparently the game Taffy Tales was removed from Patreon and they did not give any specific reasons as to why it was being suspended/banned. https://f95zone.to/threads/taffy-tales-been-removed-by-patreon-my-official-statement.200133/

That game is using cartoon style images and they were apparently banned a day or so ago. When I looked at the game here on F95, it has a couple tags that might have triggered Patreon: Incest, Scat, Urination.

Again, I have no idea what Patreon is actually doing or not doing, but from just a couple threads here about it, it sounds like Patreon is on a serious rampage right now banning and removing porn creators from their system and that even animated/cartoon style porn games can be targeted.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I can see that kinda but as far as I know the kinks that Patreon by proxy bans are not illegal by US law per se as long as they are done in an only fictional matter.

Could it be the reason why I wrote "illegal or borderline legal" ?

What matters isn't actual legal status of the content, but the level of threat that it will represent in terms of frauds. Of course, drawn loli aren't actual p*d*shit, but the more explicit will be that drawn content, the more peoples who can possibly pay for it will want to not use their own money for this.
Starting there, where do you draw the line ? How do you define, "explicit enough to trigger too many frauds", in words that would be explicit enough to have a legal value ?

It's the same for none consensual sex. How do you discriminate between rape fantasy and effective rape ?
If you take Count Morado example, is it rape if the guy is forceful ? Is it rape if he skip foreplay ? Is it rape if she looks drunk ? Is it still rape if she's drunk, but previously stated that she want to be hard fucked while totally wasted, and will drink a lot precisely for this reason ? Is it rape if she fake protestation because she have a rape fetish ? Is it rape if she have a rape fetish and said it, long ago, to her boyfriend, giving him the authorization to fuck of her any time he want, unless she use her safe word ?
There's so many case where it could be rape, but isn't due to the global context, that there's just no way to define what is actual none consensual sex, what is faked none consensual sex, and what is just rough sex.

Most Credit card company members being Archconservative Evangelist does play a role and focussing on none main stream things that don't have much of a lobby is exactly what these people do.

I loled. Those supposed archconservative Evangelist grown on drugs and sex traffic money until they were stopped mid 80's/early 90's.

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

I am not claiming to 'know better' but on that bullet that you quoted, there is this part as well: ... As long as they comply with Patreon's other guidelines.
For myself, that says that Patreon can nuke even animated/cartoon games, if they break the Pornography and Nudity rules.

As an example:
Apparently the game Taffy Tales was removed from Patreon and they did not give any specific reasons as to why it was being suspended/banned. https://f95zone.to/threads/taffy-tales-been-removed-by-patreon-my-official-statement.200133/

That game is using cartoon style images and they were apparently banned a day or so ago. When I looked at the game here on F95, it has a couple tags that might have triggered Patreon: Incest, Scat, Urination.

Again, I have no idea what Patreon is actually doing or not doing, but from just a couple threads here about it, it sounds like Patreon is on a serious rampage right now banning and removing porn creators from their system and that even animated/cartoon style porn games can be targeted.

This is all very possible, though I am inclined to disagree. I just reached out to patreon recently, in regards to 18+ games with non-sexualized under 18 characters, and I received a reply that my game falls within guidelines. Why would my game fall within these "new" guidelines if they were planning to nuke games?

 

[Reaper9988]

Could it be the reason why I wrote "illegal or borderline legal" ?

What matters isn't actual legal status of the content, but the level of threat that it will represent in terms of frauds. Of course, drawn loli aren't actual p*d*shit, but the more explicit will be that drawn content, the more peoples who can possibly pay for it will want to not use their own money for this.
Starting there, where do you draw the line ? How do you define, "explicit enough to trigger too many frauds", in words that would be explicit enough to have a legal value ?

It's the same for none consensual sex. How do you discriminate between rape fantasy and effective rape ?
If you take Count Morado example, is it rape if the guy is forceful ? Is it rape if he skip foreplay ? Is it rape if she looks drunk ? Is it still rape if she's drunk, but previously stated that she want to be hard fucked while totally wasted, and will drink a lot precisely for this reason ? Is it rape if she fake protestation because she have a rape fetish ? Is it rape if she have a rape fetish and said it, long ago, to her boyfriend, giving him the authorization to fuck of her any time he want, unless she use her safe word ?
There's so many case where it could be rape, but isn't due to the global context, that there's just no way to define what is actual none consensual sex, what is faked none consensual sex, and what is just rough sex.




I loled. Those supposed archconservative Evangelist grown on drugs and sex traffic money until they were stopped mid 80's/early 90's.

Afaik the purely comic/fictionale gray area only applies to stuff involving minors. Non Consent/Rape has in a comic not to be confused with RL, again afaik, never been problematic in the US Law wise. Even consentual none consentual Live action isn't problematic as long as the consent is explicitly stated somewhere.
I don't think Patreon ever allowed Loli even before the StudioFow/Paypal Shitshow.
That is just rules those Payment processor make up because they fit them, the only thing I give them is that there probably never has been a case that can be seen as valid for Federal law. So some backwater Redneck Judge could come to a different conclusion.
But frankly that is only a copout.

 

[Reaper9988]

Good Part is I managed to replace most all of the stuff I used Paypal for. I don't want to deal with this company. Exception.....wait for it.....dmm.co.jp because they had the balls to ban Visa and Mastercard but will accept payments from Paypal if its from a bank account.
I also am going away from Visa and Mastercard as much as possible but completely dropping that in the west is nearly impossible.
I had a JCB Credit card a few years back but sadly the German provider dropped it. Hell at this point I'd rather use Alipay than westen Monopoly evangelists Credit cards.

 

[Reaper9988]

Smaller outlets are accepting Cryptocurrency these days too, which is a positive trend but Patreon or Gumroad are probably too big for that.

 

[rf96]

Smaller outlets are accepting Cryptocurrency these days too, which is a positive trend but Patreon or Gumroad are probably too big for that.

I wish crypto became more widespread so we can bypass Visa-Mastercard.

 

[brasileirinho]

Even worse apparently there is also a patreon ban to NSFW aritst but it doesnt flatout ban you though but its really restrictive
View attachment 3446996

here is a pic from someone who was affected by the TOS change on patreon

Come on... let's just ditch patreon.

Why do people even use it? It doesn't help you find other creators, it's fees aren't better than the alternatives and it's ToS is full of crap.

 

[peterppp]

I am not claiming to 'know better' but on that bullet that you quoted, there is this part as well: ... As long as they comply with Patreon's other guidelines.
For myself, that says that Patreon can nuke even animated/cartoon games, if they break the Pornography and Nudity rules.

that's exactly what it means. i don't know how you can have missed that adult games have to abide by patreon's rules. never heard of incest patches?

 

[Moe Bahamas]

It's more complicated than this. Among others, Patreon and PayPal are US companies and are involved with NSFW content. The same apply for OnlyFans by example, that goes as far as changing their App to comply with Apple store rules, instead of staying in the easiest path and remove all NSFW content.

Unlike what too many people believe, lured by the too loud moral leagues, the problem isn't NSFW content. Sex sells, and US companies want to earn a lot of money. No, the issue is illegal or borderline legal NSFW content, because they lead to illegal transactions.
NSFW content is already one of the main source of frauds (reason why Patreon had to provision US$ 20 Millions in order to get its NSFW deal with payment processors) and, obviously, illegal or borderline legal NSFW content imply even more frauds. Even if the payment processors aren't the ones that will pay (it's Patreon through its said provision), they are the ones who have to process the frauds, and this have a cost. And, as side effect, the more clients they'll have that will be victims of frauds, the more their competitors will looks like an interesting alternative. It's not moral, it's just business.

Yeah, that I understand, as long as its not explicit rape or stuff like that u wont have problems as an artist in any of these platforms.