VN Ren'Py Hard to Love [v0.25] [Qori Gaming]

[JohnF95zone]

Some of the most popular and highly rated games on this site involve white characters in Asian settings or purportedly Asian characters in an Asian setting who somehow speak fluent English and use (almost) exclusively American cultural references. Several games do this masterfully and don't take themselves too seriously doing it. Lessons in Love is one example where the cast is supposedly Japanese, but acts like a group of Americans; references are all in English. There are several portions of the story that dance artfully around why this might be the case. And CRITICALLY the story never takes itself seriously in regard to its setting. MOST of the HS using games confront discordance between intended and actual appearances with a sense of playfulness. Waifu Acadamy, Once in a Lifetime, Ripples, etc. So many of the games here do this well.

Nah... To me everything boils down to the writing. The plot clearly lost direction, and the tone/tenor changed. There's just no way I believe the team composition stayed the same. I think they lost their translator. And I think the translator was doing more than (s)he was paid to do. That happens a lot in my field (mostly medical / science writing and editing). I will frequently be asked to "polish" a rough translation, and then just wind up rewriting the entire thing for the sake of coherence, tone, and style in addition to grammar and syntax. I'll try to give you an example. I was once presented with a patient's medical chart that had already been translated by someone without medical training from Romanian to English. My task? Clean it up, see if I could see what the initial doctors most likely meant, and put everything into a format that communicates everything in a way that requires no deciphering on the part of her American medical team. I'm a physician if that wasn't clear. I wound up spending close to 15 hours "translating" 20 pages from shitty non-expert semi-english into coherent medically sensible American English. It was... not what I signed up for. I learned my lesson doing that and never took a job like that again for under double my usual rate.

Sometimes "translating" is just rewriting. And I would be willing to bet a small sum that this is exactly what happened to this project. He or she lost their "translator." It just so happens the translator was basically an unpaid ghostwriter and editor. Whatever that person was being paid, wasn't enough.

I could be way off. But it just has a lot of similarities to some of the work I've done in the past. When I left that medical chart translating project btw, the patients' charts went from the type of quality in the first chapter here to the type of quality in the latest iteration.

Probably you are right about the narrative. However, my post directed at the game setting being Japan although it does NOT have the look and feel or even Japanese main characters. I just highlight several factors (mainly about 3D graphic assets and models) that could potentially be the reasons. Basically, the developer vision was to make it Japan but was unable (or decided against) due to various (unexplained) reasons, that in the end had to settle with fictional Japan (but even that was not clarified earlier, only later when players question about it).

 

[LazyName]

Genuinely one of the worst updates to a promising game i've ever played. It was such a jarring waste of time and such a massive deviation from everything that came before it that it actually sapped all my interest in the project. The creator obviously has talent but i dont think its for me anymore. Having said that i do hope he continues to make his game exactly as he envisions it even if its not my taste.

 

[jish55]

Genuinely one of the worst updates to a promising game i've ever played. It was such a jarring waste of time and such a massive deviation from everything that came before it that it actually sapped all my interest in the project. The creator obviously has talent but i dont think its for me anymore. Having said that i do hope he continues to make his game exactly as he envisions it even if its not my taste.

The update isn't the full update, it's just apart of it as the creator was having issue with her computer for a couple of weeks and needed new parts. The next update (which she already has a nice chunk of renders and story done thanks to the new computer) is gonna be a much bigger update.

 

[kameohawk]

The update isn't the full update, it's just apart of it as the creator was having issue with her computer for a couple of weeks and needed new parts. The next update (which she already has a nice chunk of renders and story done thanks to the new computer) is gonna be a much bigger update.

To be fair, it not being the full update doesn't fix the issue some have where what was released is a peculiar one filled with changes to the plot and overall tone of the game which weren't there before. If the rest of the update reverts to previous then it stands out even more as odd, if the rest of the update follows the same it reinforces the issues mentioned.

 

[Kinch310]

The update isn't the full update, it's just apart of it as the creator was having issue with her computer for a couple of weeks and needed new parts. The next update (which she already has a nice chunk of renders and story done thanks to the new computer) is gonna be a much bigger update.

It is always possible that the Dev has an editor or translator with a very, very heavy hand. Rushing things, even ridiculously, does not offer a satisfactory explanation. People don't forget how to use English fluently, or the personalities of the characters they've created.

The confusion here has less to do with the quality of the current update than the quality of the first releases. It went from the best overall game on the site to one that isn't even worth playing (at least in English). I'm not exaggerating.

I think the dev insulted their supporters' intelligence by claiming that a computer issue somehow caused this colossal quality difference. Every aspect of the game changed. The tone. The pace. The setting. The plot. The characters. The grammar. The animations. The posing. Planning and storyboarding: out the window.

One of two things is happening. A) The editor is doing all the work. B) The English language writer left. Option B can account for the rendering problems by forcing the art team (or art person) to take focus away from their primary tasks and focus instead on the work the writer was doing.

Hell, the quality of writing in the update posts has changed dramatically compared to the start of the project.

You know what, I CAN think of an example where the quality drops off like this. FAN FICTION. If you told me that the initial developers sold the project rights (and granted limited access to the rendering assets used in the first portion) to a different person or team; I would completely accept this explanation. And it would make perfect sense. It would explain the new setting. It would explain the new pace. It would explain the new characters. It would explain so many of the otherwise inexplicable things happening here.

I can even give you an example. If you look over at Power Vacuum, search the forum for some of the fan-made mods. If you do that, you can find a similar drop-off in quality.

 

[Aristos]

Have i been catfished? currently in the early game with the introduction of the crazy family and the game is NOTHING like it was during the prologue. Beautiful story with the mother, some mystery and a hint of incest(daughter) basically devolved into a basic trashy family incest with everyone wanting hypno dick mc. That the older versions of mc family are uglier than the early versions doesn't help either

I wrote this in February, 8 months ago (almost 9 actually):
https://f95zone.to/threads/hard-to-love-v0-03-qori-gaming.107137/post-7504382

I received several facepalms I couldn't give fewer fucks about.

After several years, you develop a nose for this type of crap.
The early game was beautiful, emotional, even brilliant. Then it turned into a cringey, deranged incest story with undeniably superb renders.

 

[desmosome]

I think you guys misjudged the nature of the game pretty significantly. It never felt like some proper romance story or typical incest harems where everything is rainbows and sunshine. It had great writing in the prologue, for sure, but it had an underlying tone of uncertainty and depression. Young Antonella is super assertive and well defined as a character. It's one of those types that typical male power fantasy seeking harem bois will probably dislike. As someone who typically enjoys male dom and subservient women in fap scenes, I still felt her character was interesting. She reminds me of the girl from My Sassy Girl.

Then chapter 1 rolls around and you can tell that this is not a typical incest game. There are many strong (and deranged) women. Everyone got a few screws loose and that seemed quite interesting to me.

You guys thinking this went from a pure and romantic incest story to some gritty noir missed a lot of the themes and tone that was being set up. Narratively, this flashback could have been done much better than telling his whole life story to a random pantyness loli he just met. The actual content of this backstory isn't as disjointed as people think.

Of course, the whole Japan thing is still an issue. The dev made a peculiar choice in how to deal with the lack of assets depicting the setting he wants. You either change your story to fit what you got, or you look for assets that properly depict what your story is about.

You can't just say that this is an alternate timeline Japan but never give a single hint about this within the game. Intro exposition dumps are pretty shitty, but there are other ways to go about it. You could have a TV or radio in the background saying a few lines. You could have a history class scene during his schooling that briefly goes over the situation with this whitewashed Japan. You could have a short conversation between characters. Conversely, you can also edit the story and characters to incorporate the "unusualness" of MC's life in non-alternate Japan. Just ignoring the whole setting all the way up to chapter 2, and then explaining the story on patreon is a pretty unconvincing move.

 

[zack1419]

yeah im also developing a VN with a majority Japanese cast, old Japanese buildings and aesthetics but it takes place right in the middle of 1800s Europe in an alternative timeline. No dont worry i wont explain this bizarre choice or set this anomaly up on the fist chapter either, i will wait until the audience complains about it then do a half-assed post explaining it was my plan all along.

 

[JohnF95zone]

I think you guys misjudged the nature of the game pretty significantly. It never felt like some proper romance story or typical incest harems where everything is rainbows and sunshine. It had great writing in the prologue, for sure, but it had an underlying tone of uncertainty and depression. Young Antonella is super assertive and well defined as a character. It's one of those types that typical male power fantasy seeking harem bois will probably dislike. As someone who typically enjoys male dom and subservient women in fap scenes, I still felt her character was interesting. She reminds me of the girl from My Sassy Girl.

Then chapter 1 rolls around and you can tell that this is not a typical incest game. There are many strong (and deranged) women. Everyone got a few screws loose and that seemed quite interesting to me.

You guys thinking this went from a pure and romantic incest story to some gritty noir missed a lot of the themes and tone that was being set up. Narratively, this flashback could have been done much better than telling his whole life story to a random pantyness loli he just met. The actual content of this backstory isn't as disjointed as people think.

Of course, the whole Japan thing is still an issue. The dev made a peculiar choice in how to deal with the lack of assets depicting the setting he wants. You either change your story to fit what you got, or you look for assets that properly depict what your story is about.

You can't just say that this is an alternate timeline Japan but never give a single hint about this within the game. Intro exposition dumps are pretty shitty, but there are other ways to go about it. You could have a TV or radio in the background saying a few lines. You could have a history class scene during his schooling that briefly goes over the situation with this whitewashed Japan. You could have a short conversation between characters. Conversely, you can also edit the story and characters to incorporate the "unusualness" of MC's life in non-alternate Japan. Just ignoring the whole setting all the way up to chapter 2, and then explaining the story on patreon is a pretty unconvincing move.

I believe I am agreeing with most (if not all) about what you said there, especially about the Japan issue. Just based of reading most of the players comments and having played up until the beginning of Chapter 1, I had developed a theory (or hypothesis) about the game/story but I am not able to find time to continue and finish play it all yet (I need a solid 6 hours to play). All I can say for now is that it ties back or have to do with the Overview in the OP. Hope I can find the needed time soon. Cheers.

 

[LazyName]

I think you guys misjudged the nature of the game pretty significantly. It never felt like some proper romance story or typical incest harems where everything is rainbows and sunshine. It had great writing in the prologue, for sure, but it had an underlying tone of uncertainty and depression. Young Antonella is super assertive and well defined as a character. It's one of those types that typical male power fantasy seeking harem bois will probably dislike. As someone who typically enjoys male dom and subservient women in fap scenes, I still felt her character was interesting. She reminds me of the girl from My Sassy Girl.

Then chapter 1 rolls around and you can tell that this is not a typical incest game. There are many strong (and deranged) women. Everyone got a few screws loose and that seemed quite interesting to me.

You guys thinking this went from a pure and romantic incest story to some gritty noir missed a lot of the themes and tone that was being set up. Narratively, this flashback could have been done much better than telling his whole life story to a random pantyness loli he just met. The actual content of this backstory isn't as disjointed as people think.

Of course, the whole Japan thing is still an issue. The dev made a peculiar choice in how to deal with the lack of assets depicting the setting he wants. You either change your story to fit what you got, or you look for assets that properly depict what your story is about.

You can't just say that this is an alternate timeline Japan but never give a single hint about this within the game. Intro exposition dumps are pretty shitty, but there are other ways to go about it. You could have a TV or radio in the background saying a few lines. You could have a history class scene during his schooling that briefly goes over the situation with this whitewashed Japan. You could have a short conversation between characters. Conversely, you can also edit the story and characters to incorporate the "unusualness" of MC's life in non-alternate Japan. Just ignoring the whole setting all the way up to chapter 2, and then explaining the story on patreon is a pretty unconvincing move.

Personally my issue isn't about the content of the story being darker vs fantastical my issue is with the competence of its delivery. I think for most people the idylic nature of finding young love as the prologue presents it contrasted with the mystery of why she dissapeared made it abundantly clear that the story was going to have some conflict and mystery. Everyone is jumping on the japan thing because its the easiest to articulate as to why it feels so clunky but the clunk is present in all aspects of the writing top to bottom.

 

[JohnF95zone]

Personally my issue isn't about the content of the story being darker vs fantastical my issue is with the competence of its delivery. I think for most people the idylic nature of finding young love as the prologue presents it contrasted with the mystery of why she dissapeared made it abundantly clear that the story was going to have some conflict and mystery. Everyone is jumping on the japan thing because its the easiest to articulate as to why it feels so clunky but the clunk is present in all aspects of the writing top to bottom.

You are probably right but there are a lot of games that did not have good writing (or story) but did not get similar 'aggressive negative treatment' (comments/posts) from the players. I believe all these emotions-based reactions come when the players expectations (mostly story/plot-wise) were not met/materialized. I have not read (so far) any players complaints about the visuals and/or musics, so at least one aspect of the execution/implementation was very well done (if not great). I also read a lot of comments praising the Prologue, so it surely had good writing (and delivery) there.

All in all, there is no "a one size fits all" kinda answer (or reason) because each players are inherently different from one another, it is always that one aspect irks some players, while another aspect annoys some others (or subset of the former) and so on. Cheers.

 

[armond]

You are probably right but there are a lot of games that did not have good writing (or story) but did not get similar 'aggressive negative treatment' (comments/posts) from the players. I believe all these emotions-based reactions come when the players expectations (mostly story/plot-wise) were not met/materialized. I have not read (so far) any players complaints about the visuals and/or musics, so at least one aspect of the execution/implementation was very well done (if not great). I also read a lot of comments praising the Prologue, so it surely had good writing (and delivery) there.

All in all, there is no "a one size fits all" kinda answer (or reason) because each players are inherently different from one another, it is always that one aspect irks some players, while another aspect annoys some others (or subset of the former) and so on. Cheers.

If you read back, my and others comments were about how the story abruptly changed and seemed to stall, I think I said it felt like filler. I did address the setting but also said it was not very important, comments responding to these overly focused on the setting intimating it as the only problem while ignoring the narrative issues. Randomly recounting disjointed stories to a stranger about fucking prostitutes and then having him recount events that he wasn't even present for. It's just a mess.

 

[JohnF95zone]

If you read back, my and others comments were about how the story abruptly changed and seemed to stall, I think I said it felt like filler. I did address the setting but also said it was not very important, comments responding to these overly focused on the setting intimating it as the only problem while ignoring the narrative issues. Randomly recounting disjointed stories to a stranger about fucking prostitutes and then having him recount events that he wasn't even present for. It's just a mess.

It was an unexpected mess (abrupt story change, stalling, etc.), and that is what more or less my understanding regarding most of the (good) comments.

 

[thaeral]

you can also make it a a bit opposite: "any other place according to HS/HS2".
View attachment 2129482
not playing those games much, so forgive me if im wrong, yet i would assume their threads are flooded with similar "omg, this isnt proper look for non-japanese characters..wtf are you doing dev" complains.

those games are meant for fun, as a fantasy, otherwise 99% of those games would make no sense at all being overly fictional and non-realistic. yet, again, i hardly see anyone complaining there.

just enjoy the ride, if it isnt to your liking, well, plenty of other "more realistic" games/setups should be there, surely.

This, absolutely this. So much wingeing in this thread over Japan with Westernized characters. (Do you all do this over every Anime you watch as well? Anime was created as a parody of how Japanese see Westerners with their big colorful eyes and multicolored hair.) Additionally, they don't have to justify any of their creative decisions about their game to any of you. It's not your game. They don't even have to justify anything to their Patrons. Patreon is a TIP JAR.

Maybe she likes DAZ models. Maybe she thought since most of these games use DAZ that she had to in order to be more successful. Maybe she just wanted to avoid using HS/HS2 or Koikatsu for the uncertainty and licensing issues surrounding their use. It doesn't matter. They can do whatever they want with their game. Period.

 

[froufrou2019]

Another VN gone to the dumps because the dev wants to stretch it. Like always just for the sake of adding new characters so we won't get want as viewers until 4 years later or probably never, you completely destroyed a nice simple kinky VN by adding these random characters no one cares about and add nothing to the story.

 

[dolfe67]

This, absolutely this. So much wingeing in this thread over Japan with Westernized characters. (Do you all do this over every Anime you watch as well? Anime was created as a parody of how Japanese see Westerners with their big colorful eyes and multicolored hair.) Additionally, they don't have to justify any of their creative decisions about their game to any of you. It's not your game. They don't even have to justify anything to their Patrons. Patreon is a TIP JAR.

Maybe she likes DAZ models. Maybe she thought since most of these games use DAZ that she had to in order to be more successful. Maybe she just wanted to avoid using HS/HS2 or Koikatsu for the uncertainty and licensing issues surrounding their use. It doesn't matter. They can do whatever they want with their game. Period.

They don't have to justify it but they need to explain it in the story if they want the readers to be invested in the story and become supporters. You can't write an all-black characters story and set it in the Middle Ages England and never talk about it.


Also I don't think the prologue was stellar writing, I already found it quite weird. It's a lot of projecting from some people in what the story could have been imo. Though yeah it's a bit disturbing that the MC is telling his story to the little girl with full detail on lewdness.

 

[Kinch310]

They don't have to justify it but they need to explain it in the story if they want the readers to be invested in the story and become supporters. You can't write an all-black characters story and set it in the Middle Ages England and never talk about it.


Also I don't think the prologue was stellar writing, I already found it quite weird. It's a lot of projecting from some people in what the story could have been imo. Though yeah it's a bit disturbing that the MC is telling his story to the little girl with full detail on lewdness.

As I remember it, I liked the prologue. I thought it introduced some pretty interesting themes, and the writing was put together competently and cohesively. Maybe I need to replay it and I'm remembering it with rose-colored glasses?

As to the quality. When I'm reading a novel, there is no background music, or images, or the need for my inputs via clicking. I also don't usually jerk off to a novel. I don't come on this site expecting to meet the reincarnation of DH Lawrence or Vladimir Nabokov. But I'm also not here to rub one out in 5 minutes. The appeal of a good lewd game is unique. And so I try to judge each game against other lewd games.

Can you have a great game with mediocre or intermittently cringy writing? Sure. Summer's Gone. Wind-blown hair indoors. A first scene where a kid points a gun at someone's leg and fires it, and says "just as I thought, blanks." LOL WUT. But it's still a great overall game that is fun to play. Because its flaws are overcome by amazing renders and a nice little soundtrack.


I have no animosity toward this creator / dev. I think they did a great job on the prologue. And the first chapter was hot as hell, if not up to the level of quality in the first bit. They deserve credit for that! If they had stopped there, I'd still tell everyone that the game fragment was worth playing regardless of its incompletion. Lots of games on here like that!

People are being hard on this game because the quality drop-off is impossible to explain without acknowledging a change to the team. I think it's goofy and sort of insulting to blame the quality drop-off on something like a computer issue. I think that's shitty because I think whoever left the project should get due credit, and I'd like to follow along with their future games.

 

[BigDaddyDom]

Another VN gone to the dumps because the dev wants to stretch it. Like always just for the sake of adding new characters so we won't get want as viewers until 4 years later or probably never, you completely destroyed a nice simple kinky VN by adding these random characters no one cares about and add nothing to the story.

Saying it's "destroyed" is a bit extreme, it's only been one update. I didn't like the changes either, but let's see what the dev does next. It's still a very promising game

 

[Kinch310]

Aha! Look at the update log. "Fixed "unnatural" English words on prologue and ch1. Thanks to Wicked Garden for this!" - I played the game after this. To me? It's pretty obvious that Wicked Garden was doing a hell of a lot more than fixing "unnatural English words." LOL


So now the thread is dead, and ratings have taken a nose dive. Take out all the ratings submitted before the update and this is a 2.5 star game. Wow. Let this be a lesson, pay the writer / translator / editor generously; and GIVE THEM CREDIT. Don't blame a "computer issue." when quality tanks after the person doing the translating/editing stops working on the project.

Edit: Thanks Aristos . Okay, that's the last one I promise.

 

[Aristos]

Also, I have no idea how to link someone's profile or name.

Just type @ followed by the person's nickname Kinch310