Got it! And edited my post above. Wicked Garden deserves a shit ton of credit here. If you see this buddy, I hope you got paid. If not, that's effing criminal.
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Don't take your own assumptions as ultimate truth, especially if it's based on limited information you got from comment section on pirate site
i will not undervalue work WG did, as i remember 0.1 and know what was changed, but i will disagree that he was a cement that holds game together. Especially when a lot of work was done by another proofreader for quite some time now, both before and after WG left.
I don't know why everyone decided suddenly that main people left the team
maybe because it's easier to blame everything on this, than accept the fact that nothing has changed, but since 0.1 and partialy before, all writing, coding and rendering was done by one person - the developer
and it was said before, and i don't think it was just once
i understand frustration everyone may have, and we accept healthy critique, but it was also said why everything is as it is
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Don't take your own assumptions as ultimate truth, especially if it's based on limited information you got from comment section on pirate site
i will not undervalue work WG did, as i remember 0.1 and know what was changed, but i will disagree that he was a cement that holds game together. Especially when a lot of work was done by another proofreader for quite some time now, both before and after WG left.
I don't know why everyone decided suddenly that main people left the team
maybe because it's easier to blame everything on this, than accept the fact that nothing has changed, but since 0.1 and partialy before, all writing, coding and rendering was done by one person - the developer
and it was said before, and i don't think it was just once
i understand frustration everyone may have, and we accept healthy critique, but it was also said why everything is as it is
It sounds like you were involved with the creation of the game. I can think of no other reason someone would defend the changes made to the game and to the team that makes the game.
Everything I say, I say as someone who has taken on translation work that has morphed into a rewrite. I've also done contracting work with the understanding I'd be paid, and then had the client not pay up.
To me, it is so obvious what happened that it's disappointing that it has not been explicitly acknowledged until now. I will admit that it is possible that the work I'm attributing to Wicked Garden (let's give the person credit rather than abbreviate his name) was done by more than one person. It is also possible (likely) the project lost more than one person when Wicked Garden left. If I were working with the team and y'all cut staff after the success of the intro, I'd leave the project too.
Also, I'm not saying that the project's dev deserves no credit or even equal credit to someone like Wicked Garden. They deserve enormous praise for their work, and there is no game without them. However, will you ignore the facts I will list below?
The people working on the project changed. The release timeline was adjusted. An excuse about computer hardware was offered. No change to the team was announced. After a pause, a new schedule was announced. The subsequent releases demonstrated a drastic reduction in quality which has worsened over time.
Those are the facts. Please don't force someone to make a timeline.
And can we not pretend that this site offers nothing to developers? It is the best place to attract new eyeballs and new supporters to the game. Also, look at all the posts, and the ratings filled out since the game changed. This is essential feedback. If I were developing a game, I would want to communicate transparently with the people here while I grew the supporter base for my game. Once I have enough supporters, then okay, I can get feedback from paying subscribers in a different venue. But until then, this site is a lifeline. So tell everyone the obvious. "The team composition changed, and the quality suffered. We are going to see about trying to get the band back together. If we can't, we'll have to find a way to do much better." There. Done. I would have no criticism then.
what the fuck are you even on about?
it's not a secret i involved in the project
and of course i defend it as much, as i critique it, so let's get it out of the way
but other stuff? apart from your invaluable work experience you talk in almost every message, of course
you don't know why WG left or what he did
you don't know if anyone more left or what they did
the release timeline was adjusted? yes, because new PC allows to render, set-up next render and code or write in the same time, contrary to what was before, when one was prioritised over other
"Excuse" was offered not because we "leaked some brains" or didn't know what to do, but because DAZ literally crushed old PC, and new parts were ordered to be assembled into new working rig. Amazon for weeks couldn't deliever CPU, even after every other part came. That is a fact. The fact, that was said in dev updates, that were also shared here.
No change to the dev team was announced, because dev works solo. There is no updates to the dev team. Proofreaders are volounteers, and i fail to see why there is big need to make a post about this. That is also a fact.
Your "drastic subsequented releases that ruined the game" are only 1 - last one, that is a less than a quarter of usual chapter, because developer wanted to get out something after all the time that was spent waiting for Amazon.
and the problem with your last part of the message
thats exactly what we do
and if there is news, we share them here
if there is constructive critisism, we aknowledge it
We take part in conversations here and answer questions, if there is a need.
You assumed things you think are correct, because they are based on your own experiences, and not the stuff that happend with the game months ago
and so i say it once again,
writer of the first update, writer of the second update and writer of the last update are the same human being
And that is also a fact
Didn't know someone could fap the keyboard. That's a good one. I'm going to steal it.
Alright, let me cool things off here. I think you have a great game, on which you've worked very hard, and I give you credit for reading and responding to me. I think (remember, this is just my opinion) the problem with your game has comes down to an English-Writing problem. Some of it is a big change in pace, and plot. But most of it revolves around English language narration and dialogue. Frankly, there might even be a translation issue between you and me, as none of what I said was meant maliciously! I wrote that your prologue was one of the top 25 best games on the site if it were left alone! And also, I put my money where my mouth was and even offered to do the job myself for a negotiable rate.
It takes two to tango, and I realize now that I've contributed to the hostility, and I'm sorry. Like really. I'm sorry. Not enough people apologize anymore. I'm wrong frequently, and still think I'm a pretty decent, well-meaning person. My ego can take the hit. If there are keyboard warriors here that want to drag you down, I'm not one. I genuinely want your game to do well.
So, I will be civil and careful here, but I do think I've brought up some issues that could benefit from clarification. I have absolutely no problem with someone being on the hook for both praise and responsibility. I think your response makes it clear that you are doing 99% of the work here. Mea culpa. But it might still be helpful then to adjust the first post on this thread to reflect that it isn't a team, it's you. In the developers note you use language that makes it seem like it's a team project. I can only speak for myself, but that obviously confused me.
Another clarification would be addressing that there were changes to the folks doing the translation and that this either did (or did not) cause a bump in the development road. I have no idea what Wicked Garden is like to work with, but I can tell you that the translation in the prologue is very, very well done... And it does appear to change in quality after his departure. I'm sure that really sucks to hear; and it sounds like there's more to the story there, so I'm sorry if that's a sore subject. I'm just telling you my opinion and what I've observed from others here.
First, I don't know why some people say the first version is "lighter." It's not. It's fucking dark. It's just a more relatable type of dark (IN MY OPINION). I know people who've been shot. They acted like your MC did in the beginning. I was floored by how well this was done.
That said, I think there is a change in tone, to one that is a little more bitter or cynical. (IN MY OPINION) The MC you introduced in part one doesn't seem like someone who routinely effed prostitutes at any point in his past. HOWEVER, there's no reason why any game can't take a bitter turn and do so successfully. There doesn't NECESSARILY have to be any build-up. Plot twists and tone changes are executed successfully everywhere in creative projects. Some of the comments on here have come close to being racist in their anger about the introduction of Japanese characters and scenery. There's no reason why the game can't take place in Japan. There's no reason the main characters can't appear white. THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM. I wrote that I would be willing to go render by render with you over the writing/execution. Meaning you do NO NEW WORK. I offered to help you write a more cohesive story in a non-native language. This is, after all, a visual NOVEL. And writing a novel in a non-native language isn't supposed to be "easy." I think it's completely reasonable to expect there to be the exact type of speed bumps you've been having. I'm not suggesting you try to make everyone happy. I've pointed to issues I think your story would be better for addressing.
I guess the point I'm driving towards is that (in my opinion) your game would be better if you had more help with the writing. This isn't about money, it's about bringing your vision to life in a way your vision deserves. I want your game to be the best game on the site. I think it could be. BUT! I think you need some help to get it there.
Finally, if I'm being honest, I probably let myself be influenced by some sour grapes about past projects; projects where I've done both the TRANSLATING from MLT to everyday speech AND major EDITING but only been credited/compensated as a translator. That was shitty of me. I was a self-righteous jerk for portions of what I wrote. I take responsibility for that and am sorry.
We all have egos, and occasionally mine makes a fool of me. I try to apologize honestly, and I try to live my life with good intentions. I think, on balance, meaning well--and not considering myself superior to anyone--counts for a lot. In my own life, I have benefited from the help of others. If you don't want my help, that's cool. Honestly, I'm pretty busy anyway. But I do think your vision could be better executed with help. I have explained why. I hope you don't hate me for thinking that, but ultimately that's up to you.
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dolfe67
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Sorry but in the end it's only your biased opinion. Why the MC wouldn't go to prostitutes? Not everyone react the same to trauma or even live their life. Also personally I don't think the prologue is exceptionally written, the dialogues and pace feel weird. I don't know if it's intended but I don't think so. I didn't notice a particular change in the writing.
And it's also a VISUAL novel, the assets are important and don't look japanese in the prologue. And no problem with white characters in Japan, but in the police it's not very believable. Ok it's a fictional Japan but it would be nice to say it somewhere (overview) or not even mention Japan, or other real places, at all.
Though I agree the writing could need a bit of work in some parts.
All in all the game is enjoyable (graphics are really really good).
I responded to the Dev's comments above. But just to you, personally, let me be clear: I wasn't accusing you of lying or misrepresenting yourself. I only meant that I was surprised to see someone defend the project from the points I made with so much intensity--and that what you said would make more sense if you were involved in the work.
It seems to me like you're a big help to the Dev, based on what they said. That's great! I hope you don't take it personally that I still think it's not entirely accurate to say the Dev has done all the work, and that nobody left the project. Because it seems like some volunteers have helped a lot. And at least one of those volunteers is no longer helping. Maybe that volunteer will return? I don't know.
Do you see how, to some people, that sounds an awful lot like a change to the people making the game? Even though the official, paid development team is precisely the same, some people, might think the translator made a difference. You will have people who disagree. I'm not clear on whether you think there was a quality difference. Some, like dolfe67, think nothing noticeable has changed.
But to someone of the opinion that the quality has changed, seeing that a volunteer left just before the changes... Well, is it really a stretch to think there might be some causal relationship there? Is that really such an offensive thing to suggest?
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The graphics are good. I appreciate your opinion on the writing. I guess we just disagree respectfully.
Bias? I don't have a bias man. I don't own put options on the game, lol. Though, I think you meant it's my opinion. Sorry, just imaging puts and calls on these games is kinda fun.
JohnF95zone
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Finally, after 2 weeks, just gets the needed break and focus some quality time and continue playing this game (up until the end of the current version, although not comprehensively i.e. did not thoroughly explore all the choices). This feedback post (and initial review) is the continuation of my previous post (my personal opinions and interpretations which can be ill-informed).
A brief summary, I like, love this game and the story it is telling. Of course there are certain aspects and characters that I don't particularly excited about but they are negligible small matters. It may seems that a lot had been told or explained so far, but there are a lot (much) more unknowns yet to discover, so I am eagerly looking forward to more contents. The writing is great, dialogues are fine, not perfect but well exceed the average. I believe this game is looking up and will get better and better with each release. Well done.
WARNING!!! The following contents may contain spoilers (speculative, small and/or huge).
TLDR;
First and foremost, I summarized the chapters by linking it back to the game overview mentioned in the OP.
Hot damn I've never typed so much before. However, I wonder how much works go into actually making a game, which I can't possibly do. Even typing this is too much work for me.
A brief summary, I like, love this game and the story it is telling. Of course there are certain aspects and characters that I don't particularly excited about but they are negligible small matters. It may seems that a lot had been told or explained so far, but there are a lot (much) more unknowns yet to discover, so I am eagerly looking forward to more contents. The writing is great, dialogues are fine, not perfect but well exceed the average. I believe this game is looking up and will get better and better with each release. Well done
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WARNING!!! The following contents may contain spoilers (speculative, small and/or huge).
TLDR;
First and foremost, I summarized the chapters by linking it back to the game overview mentioned in the OP.
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Hot damn
I've never typed so much before. However, I wonder how much works go into actually making a game, which I can't possibly do. Even typing this is too much work for me.
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I feel like this is shot at me. I offered to rewrite the entire thing. If you want me to publically humiliate someone like a cruel English teacher, I guess I can. But this is a near-total rewrite from a "speaking in coherent English POV."P/S: If I were a writer, I would probably have given some objective feedbacks and suggestions to the developer. For example, how to (improve) effectively develop scene involving side characters (that most players or readers will not care for) that plugs in, add tangible value and/or impact to the main plot (considering some players unable to grasp the values of some flashback scenes). Sadly, I am not
Still, I can use some examples to prove my point if you like. By the way, this task was significantly more annoying because the game doesn't allow screenshots.
Current Version
"MC: If you compare it (Osaka) with Tokyo, everything isn't under control...
MC: And you will find things you used to see in the old days here.
MC: Maybe there are some boring things around Takenotsuka in Adachi, but you won't find anything exciting.
MC: It's like wanting to be a doctor and being satisfied with just treating bruises on someones knee.
MC: Although its not a wildly fucked up place, to say the least, Osaka has its interesting little things."
So many issues here. The MC is explaining to a little girl why he thinks it was beneficial for him to have started his career in Osaka, which is relatively far away from the place he grew up in--the place they are now. He compares Osaka to Tokyo and in particular to the Adachi subsection. Even more specifically, he mentions the area around Takenotsuka station as a comparator. The references are a bit esoterically Japanese for a Western reader, but that's not the problem. Nothing wrong with the writer's ideas.
The problem is that the sentences don't make sense. Since I'm not an English teacher, I'd rather not get into dependent versus independent clauses, direct objects, predicates, dangling modifiers, unclear antecedents, and all that fun stuff. Instead. I will give you my version of what I think the author is trying to say. My translation of their English into natively spoken English.
My Version
MC: In Osaka, things aren't "under control" the way they are in Tokyo...
MC: There, you see things from the old days. Things are still happening in Osaka that haven't happened here for almost a century... Things that keep the police busy.
MC: Here in Tokyo, in Adachi? If the cops are lucky, they might have something to do around Takenotsuka station. Maybe they'll arrest someone for petty theft. Half the time, it'll turn out to be someone who grabbed the wrong purse.
MC: Tokyo is quiet; boring. Safe. But boring.
MC: Would you want your doctor to have spent her entire residency wrapping sprained ankles? No, when you're sick, you want a doctor who had her finger in bullet wounds. You want one who has seen everything and is ready for anything.
Nanami: That's... I think I see what you mean...
MC: To be clear, Osaka isn't all bad. If you know someone living there, then I meant no offense. It's worth visiting. But I'd avoid being alone there if I were you...
I spent 20 minutes on that. It's harder work than I'm willing to do for free.
Lucky97
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JohnF95zone
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Kinch310
Sir, I don't know you. I post my initial reviews and feedbacks about this game and this game only. I did not directed anything in that post to you, any writers, professionals or members of this site. The point I made was about developing (future) scenes and has nothing to do with (existing) dialogues. I did not elaborate on it because it was a theoretical scenario.
I have no idea why you have to make it about you. I have already told you before that you should contact the developer or team directly for business related inquiries. Why you posted all the free English lessons and dialogue changes is beyond my comprehension and have no relation to my post.
I suggest that you don't reply back to avoid getting off topic (if it was not already off topics in the first place) primarily because I will not be able to read them (as I have put you on ignore*) and I don't think others are particularly excited for a reply too. Adieu.
*I put you on ignore because you provided information that I did not asked for and not interested in. Anyone is free to post whatever they like but I don't have to and not interested in reading all of it.
Sir, I don't know you. I post my initial reviews and feedbacks about this game and this game only. I did not directed anything in that post to you, any writers, professionals or members of this site. The point I made was about developing (future) scenes and has nothing to do with (existing) dialogues. I did not elaborate on it because it was a theoretical scenario.
I have no idea why you have to make it about you. I have already told you before that you should contact the developer or team directly for business related inquiries. Why you posted all the free English lessons and dialogue changes is beyond my comprehension and have no relation to my post.
I suggest that you don't reply back to avoid getting off topic (if it was not already off topics in the first place) primarily because I will not be able to read them (as I have put you on ignore*) and I don't think others are particularly excited for a reply too. Adieu.
*I put you on ignore because you provided information that I did not asked for and not interested in. Anyone is free to post whatever they like but I don't have to and not interested in reading all of it.
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Yngling
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But you did spare others, like myself, the trouble!
Great write-up and I find myself in complete agreement. The only thing that you didn't mention (maybe too detailed) was the curious lack of panties on Nanami.... It makes me think she's intended as a LI as well. But anyway, great stuff! Thanks!
JohnF95zone
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True to that. Thank you for the reminder. I will edit the post about the peculiar or odd Nanami behavior. I did not mentioned it before because to me Nanami is pretty much unknown stranger. I guess I just put odd for the Nanami Characters tab entry and putting inline spoiler about the panties situation. Cheers.But you did spare others, like myself, the trouble!
Great write-up and I find myself in complete agreement. The only thing that you didn't mention (maybe too detailed) was the curious lack of panties on Nanami.... It makes me think she's intended as a LI as well. But anyway, great stuff! Thanks!
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Sorry man, I thought you were being sarcastic here and calling me out for not giving specific examples. Like saying, "if you were a real writer, you'd give examples..."P/S: If I were a writer, I would probably have given some objective feedbacks and suggestions to the developer. For example, how to (improve) effectively develop scene involving side characters (that most players or readers will not care for) that plugs in, add tangible value and/or impact to the main plot (considering some players unable to grasp the values of some flashback scenes). Sadly, I am not
Turns out, you were being completely serious, and just saying that you wished you could offer better feedback. WHOOPS!
Lol. I'm not trolling for business. I'd volunteer, but that work is hard, my man! That's all I meant.
*********
Honestly, we might need a translator for this thread, too, lol. The language barrier is a factor in both these cases, I think. I'll give y'all the benefit of the doubt next time. Sorry about any misunderstanding on my part..
++++++++++++
Anyway, seems like the dev and a couple of others saw my post and liked it. Hopefully, what I wrote helps illustrate what a good translator/editor can do for their novel. Lord knows, there are plenty of people better at it than me. The only reason I ever included myself as an option was because I felt like I should put my money where my mouth was. Anyone can criticize something. Not everyone is willing to step up and do the hard work of helping to improve things. I was.
Dogorti
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Are you going to ask the same shit in every game thread or what?
sevensham
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i ask the game that i play ...... thank you for the shitty answer