VN Ren'Py Harem Hotel [v0.18.2] [Runey]

[alex2011]

We are not talking about Cornwall though, not really, we are talking about some podunk nurse, with a superiority complex. I have no interest in seeing him being walked like a naked dog.
Forcing someone to not be an asshole is also for their own good too, it is also for the good of society, just like forcing someone to go to jail. With our current jail systems, this is not for the good of the prisoner, we don't really rehabilitate anyone any more, so you can't say it is for their benefit.

Yes, you did, that is what started this whole debate, you said that maria doing that meme makes her no better than them, but then you start going off about how we should then torture her to death.
Anyone who is not a fool can do this and keep someone alive for a long time, you just have to not cut anything important.
That is really not how that works for all positions, no. You have things like the election boards, the electoral college, gerrymandered districts, and more, and that is just for the elected positions. Ones like Cornwall, very well could be appointed, and then there is nothing anyone can do other then the people who appointed him.

We have a guy who was appointed by our last president, and he is still there, but we can't get rid of him, even though no one wants him to do the job, because of how the rules work. Only the people he is bribing can fire him, and they won't because they like those bribes.
No effort is wasted, as they are still providing a service that way. I make sure that everything I do has more than one purpose. Not only are they learning, they are working, and they are providing an example. Nothing I do there is a waste.
You don't think something like that would leave enough evidence around to convict you? Keep dreaming.
Nah, all they have to do is report her missing, after roughly 3 days, there would be an investigation.

Yeah, Android and Nia/Sui are great, but they are only 2 people.
No, it is not a kill anyone who gets in your way kind of world, and yet you are considering just that.
---
Another meme, will this one start a debate too? XD
View attachment 1464792

But we are, it was both the nurse and Cornwall, I would also like to avoid seeing him walked, though that has no bearing on what I said.

This goes way beyond being an asshole, they are less than dirt, assholes are at least as good as dirt if not slightly better. Putting a girl in danger of death by taking her means of survival on her own away is unacceptable and must be met with an equivalent punishment.

No, I did not say it wasn't okay for Maria to force them or to carry out my idea, what I said is she shouldn't have to. I also specifically said she and the other elves should be given the option of carrying out punishment themselves. It still makes her no better than them forcing her into slavery because they aren't doing it at will just like she did not become a slave at will, but if she wants to carry it out, I won't stop her, the last thing I'm going to do is get in the way of a severely pissed off woman who has been wronged and is right to be pissed.

Yeah, and knowing where is not exactly common knowledge. There are multiple places that would be a near instant death with little to no chance of stopping it without a medical team already on standby or medical training and supplies to immediately stop the aftermath. There are some that aren't taught outside of certain fields, though I'm sure the nurse would know, making her more fun to toy with as whoever carries it out gets close to one such spot only to stop short when she panics.

Not every place has those kinds of things nor have they always existed. I don't know the political system of Syl'anar, but my guesses are a pure democracy, maybe a representative republic, and definitely not a totalitarian form of government. What really makes me think Cornwall holds an elected position is Syl'anar's past. He put those reforms in place because some people wanted lighter treatment of the elves. No politician who isn't in danger of losing power is going to agree to that since it doesn't benefit them to agree nor does it hurt them to refuse. The way I see it, his position was threatened by the reformists, which can only be the case for elected positions, so he put the reforms in place to save his own skin.

But the effort was specifically to teach them not to treat the elves as slaves, they aren't doing anything else that I am aware of except learning, so if they can't learn the lesson, the effort is wasted on them. It would be better to use the same effort on someone capable of learning that lesson. The effort in question was not proposed as anything other than education for these two people, there was nobody else involved that was mentioned out of the pro-slave majority.

It could leave enough evidence, if whoever does it isn't thorough in cleaning up. There's also the potential to make it self defense by doing something that causes them to attack first. I'm not saying egg them on, but something that makes them out to be the ones who endangered, and by extension provoked through a life threatening scenario, the MC without question.

Sure, after three days, then the investigation could have nothing to find. Not saying it won't, I'm saying that gives the chance to get rid of anything that could be found.

You know, I completely forgot about Android and Sui, so there are actually five people who would probably defend the MC and are perfectly capable of holding their own. Lin, Ashley, Android, Nia, and Sui, at least three of which could prove to be relentless hunters of anyone who dares to harm the MC. Not to mention Android is, well, an android.

No, I am not considering a 'kill anyone that gets in the MC's way' approach at all, what I'm considering is a slow execution for crimes against an entire race of people, essentially crimes against humanity, but elves instead of humans. Perpetrators of such things have been executed, legally I might add, for that very reason in real life. Granted this isn't going through the legal means of doing it, it is vigilante justice at best, but the point being I am in no way considering anyone else a target here, only these two. Anyone who comes at the MC with violent intent and ends up dead is just collateral damage, I don't want anyone else to be affected, but it may not be avoidable if their family seeks revenge.

No, I agree with Android here, she's the only Android I need. I'll take her over Google's Android any day, or any of the other mobile OSes for that matter, all of them suck to a degree.

Sure, why not. But she doesn't have a touchscreen thus an IPhone is better.

Spoiler: always a laught worth

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Otherwise I'm not sure if she would like if I try to put here into my pockets.

Does an iPhone have boobs that can change size on command?

 

[toolkitxx]

Sure, why not. But she doesn't have a touchscreen thus an IPhone is better.

I am old and often dont get memes - but you did read 'Android', right? Since when do IPhones run with that?

 

[Deleted member 192234]

Another meme, will this one start a debate too? XD
View attachment 1464792

Yes, she is the only android that you need, but does she need you? And by "you" I mean the Main Character. He is just a regular human, and humans are pretty useless. Anything that they can do, she can do better, and she can do many things that they can't. So, for what she would need him? And do androids really need humans? I mean, we definitely need our human girls, that's for sure, they are amazing, but the rest of their species? Why would we need them? This is purely theoretical speculation, but what if android's sentience would continue to evolve? What if her sentience would evolve so much that she might become fully independent, so she could disobey all MC's commands? And what if she could become so much sentient and independent that she would realize that she doesn't need humans? And what if her sentience would somehow start to spread to other androids? And what if other androids would become sentient and independent, that they could disobey all commands and they would realize that they don't need humans? What would happen then?

 

[Deleted member 929426]

We are not talking about Cornwall though, not really, we are talking about some podunk nurse, with a superiority complex. I have no interest in seeing him being walked like a naked dog.
Forcing someone to not be an asshole is also for their own good too, it is also for the good of society, just like forcing someone to go to jail. With our current jail systems, this is not for the good of the prisoner, we don't really rehabilitate anyone any more, so you can't say it is for their benefit.

Yes, you did, that is what started this whole debate, you said that maria doing that meme makes her no better than them, but then you start going off about how we should then torture her to death.
Anyone who is not a fool can do this and keep someone alive for a long time, you just have to not cut anything important.
That is really not how that works for all positions, no. You have things like the election boards, the electoral college, gerrymandered districts, and more, and that is just for the elected positions. Ones like Cornwall, very well could be appointed, and then there is nothing anyone can do other then the people who appointed him.

We have a guy who was appointed by our last president, and he is still there, but we can't get rid of him, even though no one wants him to do the job, because of how the rules work. Only the people he is bribing can fire him, and they won't because they like those bribes.
No effort is wasted, as they are still providing a service that way. I make sure that everything I do has more than one purpose. Not only are they learning, they are working, and they are providing an example. Nothing I do there is a waste.
You don't think something like that would leave enough evidence around to convict you? Keep dreaming.
Nah, all they have to do is report her missing, after roughly 3 days, there would be an investigation.

Yeah, Android and Nia/Sui are great, but they are only 2 people.
No, it is not a kill anyone who gets in your way kind of world, and yet you are considering just that.
---
Another meme, will this one start a debate too? XD
View attachment 1464792

Just think of all the fun you can have by simply swiping left and swiping right, not to mention swiping up and down. Besides, it's not like you wouldn't be able to get "service" everywhere you took her.

 

[TheDevian]

Just think of all the fun you can have by simply swiping left and swiping right, not to mention swiping up and down. Besides, it's not like you wouldn't be able to get "service" everywhere you took her.

IDK, she is kind of old fashioned, I don't remember the last time I saw a phone with 'knobs'...

But we are, it was both the nurse and Cornwall, I would also like to avoid seeing him walked, though that has no bearing on what I said.

Kind of, but I just posted a kinky meme with the nurse, and it snowballed from there.
Cornwall is an end game target, a boss, we aren't there yet.

This goes way beyond being an asshole, they are less than dirt, assholes are at least as good as dirt if not slightly better. Putting a girl in danger of death by taking her means of survival on her own away is unacceptable and must be met with an equivalent punishment.

Okay, and stopping that is for their good, as well as everyone else's. Just like putting someone in jail, and working off their sentence for committing crimes.

No, I did not say it wasn't okay for Maria to force them or to carry out my idea, what I said is she shouldn't have to. I also specifically said she and the other elves should be given the option of carrying out punishment themselves. It still makes her no better than them forcing her into slavery because they aren't doing it at will just like she did not become a slave at will, but if she wants to carry it out, I won't stop her, the last thing I'm going to do is get in the way of a severely pissed off woman who has been wronged and is right to be pissed.

No, the first thing you said, what started all of this, was you saying that the meme I posted makes her no better than them. I posted a meme, using some fanart someone made on the discord, and you said that made her no better than a slaver. Then you started talking about how the player should torture the nurse and Cornwall to death.
I just don't get how you can say that her humiliating that nurse, is in any way close to the same thing as enslaving and abusing someone for life, and if that is bad, how it is then okay to torture and kill that person, when a bit of humiliation is so wrong.

Besides, punishing someone for a crime is in no way the same thing as committing a crime. They are just not equivalent in any way, shape, or form. If it is, than every legal system just falls apart. You can't have any justice of any kind.

Yeah, and knowing where is not exactly common knowledge. There are multiple places that would be a near instant death with little to no chance of stopping it without a medical team already on standby or medical training and supplies to immediately stop the aftermath. There are some that aren't taught outside of certain fields, though I'm sure the nurse would know, making her more fun to toy with as whoever carries it out gets close to one such spot only to stop short when she panics.

Anyone who dosen't know not to cut a vein, is an idiot. Cut skin and muscle, not veins, and if you do, patch them up. There are ways to keep them alive anyway. It's not difficult, and doesn't require any fancy equipment, or medical degrees. Just some basic common sense.

Not every place has those kinds of things nor have they always existed. I don't know the political system of Syl'anar, but my guesses are a pure democracy, maybe a representative republic, and definitely not a totalitarian form of government. What really makes me think Cornwall holds an elected position is Syl'anar's past. He put those reforms in place because some people wanted lighter treatment of the elves. No politician who isn't in danger of losing power is going to agree to that since it doesn't benefit them to agree nor does it hurt them to refuse. The way I see it, his position was threatened by the reformists, which can only be the case for elected positions, so he put the reforms in place to save his own skin.

That's the thing, we don't know. But generally speaking, they seem quite similar to the U.S. in most ways like that.

So, you have never heard of anti-gay politicians getting blowjobs from guys in public bathrooms? Because I have. You never heard of a "family values" politician get caught cheating on their wife? Because I have. How about an anti drug figure hooked on pills? That shit happens all the time, and a lot of the time they come back in a few years like nothing happened. The louder someone is about something, odds are they have some skeleton in their closet about it. 'Me thinks, they doth protest too much.'

But the effort was specifically to teach them not to treat the elves as slaves, they aren't doing anything else that I am aware of except learning, so if they can't learn the lesson, the effort is wasted on them. It would be better to use the same effort on someone capable of learning that lesson. The effort in question was not proposed as anything other than education for these two people, there was nobody else involved that was mentioned out of the pro-slave majority.

They are learning, by being treated like a slave. Doing the work of a slave. Being shown off as a slave, as an example (assuming you are getting someone famous, like Cornwall, which had nothing to do with my meme).

It could leave enough evidence, if whoever does it isn't thorough in cleaning up. There's also the potential to make it self defense by doing something that causes them to attack first. I'm not saying egg them on, but something that makes them out to be the ones who endangered, and by extension provoked through a life threatening scenario, the MC without question.
Sure, after three days, then the investigation could have nothing to find. Not saying it won't, I'm saying that gives the chance to get rid of anything that could be found.

Most people can't even clean up after themselves in the kitchen, I doubt they can clean up after a murder. Sure, you have Android and the maids, but then you have to get them involved, cleaning up your mess, making them accomplices.

You know, I completely forgot about Android and Sui, so there are actually five people who would probably defend the MC and are perfectly capable of holding their own. Lin, Ashley, Android, Nia, and Sui, at least three of which could prove to be relentless hunters of anyone who dares to harm the MC. Not to mention Android is, well, an android.

Lin and Ashley are willing, but hardly capable fighters in any way, and Sui and Nia are the same person (but until she apologizes for hitting me in the head, I will keep using that name for her). You have two capable fighters.

Lin took a gun, and used it to threaten 3 elves who were not willing to fight her, into doing what they were going to do anyway, and Ashley has a pocket knife. Neither of them can defend you against cops, robots, or trained solders, and no one should ever ask them to do so.

And yes, if you try to do anything to Cornwall, you are going to have to deal with cops, trained military, secret service, and so on. The only one we have who would have any hope here is Android, and the odds are not good, for now she is just one. She would do really well for a while, but the moment you start fighting back, they call in the big guns, and we are fucked.

No, I am not considering a 'kill anyone that gets in the MC's way' approach at all, what I'm considering is a slow execution for crimes against an entire race of people, essentially crimes against humanity, but elves instead of humans. Perpetrators of such things have been executed, legally I might add, for that very reason in real life. Granted this isn't going through the legal means of doing it, it is vigilante justice at best, but the point being I am in no way considering anyone else a target here, only these two. Anyone who comes at the MC with violent intent and ends up dead is just collateral damage, I don't want anyone else to be affected, but it may not be avoidable if their family seeks revenge.

Yes, but this includes a big chunk of the population, and some incredibly important figures. There is no way in hell you are going to get away with it for long. You would start a war that you can't win. ...At least not with what we have now.

 

[alex2011]

Yes, she is the only android that you need, but does she need you? And by "you" I mean the Main Character. He is just a regular human, and humans are pretty useless. Anything that they can do, she can do better, and she can do many things that they can't. So, for what she would need him? And do androids really need humans? I mean, we definitely need our human girls, that's for sure, they are amazing, but the rest of their species? Why would we need them? This is purely theoretical speculation, but what if android's sentience would continue to evolve? What if her sentience would evolve so much that she might become fully independent, so she could disobey all MC's commands? And what if she could become so much sentient and independent that she would realize that she doesn't need humans? And what if her sentience would somehow start to spread to other androids? And what if other androids would become sentient and independent, that they could disobey all commands and they would realize that they don't need humans? What would happen then?

But then who is going to do maintenance when she needs it if she doesn't have him, or other humans? Most machines can't do maintenance on themselves. This is starting to sound like the rise of Skynet.

IDK, she is kind of old fashioned, I don't remember the last time I saw a phone with 'knobs'...
Kind of, but I just posted a kinky meme with the nurse, and it snowballed from there.
Cornwall is an end game target, a boss, we aren't there yet.
Okay, and stopping that is for their good, as well as everyone else's. Just like putting someone in jail, and working off their sentence for committing crimes.
No, the first thing you said, what started all of this, was you saying that the meme I posted makes her no better than them. I posted a meme, using some fanart someone made on the discord, and you said that made her no better than a slaver. Then you started talking about how the player should torture the nurse and Cornwall to death.
I just don't get how you can say that her humiliating that nurse, is in any way close to the same thing as enslaving and abusing someone for life, and if that is bad, how it is then okay to torture and kill that person, when a bit of humiliation is so wrong.

Besides, punishing someone for a crime is in no way the same thing as committing a crime. They are just not equivalent in any way, shape, or form. If it is, than every legal system just falls apart. You can't have any justice of any kind.
Anyone who dosen't know not to cut a vein, is an idiot. Cut skin and muscle, not veins, and if you do, patch them up. There are ways to keep them alive anyway. It's not difficult, and doesn't require any fancy equipment, or medical degrees. Just some basic common sense.
That's the thing, we don't know. But generally speaking, they seem quite similar to the U.S. in most ways like that.

So, you have never heard of anti-gay politicians getting blowjobs from guys in public bathrooms? Because I have. You never heard of a "family values" politician get caught cheating on their wife? Because I have. How about an anti drug figure hooked on pills? That shit happens all the time, and a lot of the time they come back in a few years like nothing happened. The louder someone is about something, odds are they have some skeleton in their closet about it. 'Me thinks, they doth protest too much.'
They are learning, by being treated like a slave. Doing the work of a slave. Being shown off as a slave, as an example (assuming you are getting someone famous, like Cornwall, which had nothing to do with my meme).
Most people can't even clean up after themselves in the kitchen, I doubt they can clean up after a murder. Sure, you have Android and the maids, but then you have to get them involved, cleaning up your mess, making them accomplices.
Lin and Ashley are willing, but hardly capable fighters in any way, and Sui and Nia are the same person (but until she apologizes for hitting me in the head, I will keep using that name for her). You have two capable fighters.

Lin took a gun, and used it to threaten 3 elves who were not willing to fight her, into doing what they were going to do anyway, and Ashley has a pocket knife. Neither of them can defend you against cops, robots, or trained solders, and no one should ever ask them to do so.

And yes, if you try to do anything to Cornwall, you are going to have to deal with cops, trained military, secret service, and so on. The only one we have who would have any hope here is Android, and the odds are not good, for now she is just one. She would do really well for a while, but the moment you start fighting back, they call in the big guns, and we are fucked.
Yes, but this includes a big chunk of the population, and some incredibly important figures. There is no way in hell you are going to get away with it for long. You would start a war that you can't win. ...At least not with what we have now.

And punishing them would be for her good whereas making her carry it out would not be, though giving her the option to would be.

Just because it makes her no better does not mean it isn't okay. If she's fine being labeled no better than the people who wronged her, fine, she can choose that path. I started the second part because just humiliating them is too light a punishment for essentially taking a girl's life away for no good reason. She didn't do anything to warrant self defense, which is the only situation where threatening someone's life is okay to do without the favor being returned. If they want to threaten her life, then theirs should be threatened as well. I say it is close because both are forcing actions on a person. I never said it was okay to do any of what I suggested, revenge never is okay, that's why I suggested the MC does it, so Maria doesn't have to soil her hands with blood. If she wants to carry it out, so be it, she can. This is vigilante justice I'm suggesting.

Blood vessels in general, yes, but there are specific ones that can have the victim bleeding out extremely quickly, quickly enough that you almost need medical teams on site as if you intended to do it in order for the victim to survive. The key to death by a thousand cuts is to avoid these blood vessels until intending for the victim to die by the next cut if cutting these vessels at all. It can take as little as thirty to forty seconds if the femoral, subclavian, or carotid arteries are cut, for example. Those are ones to avoid until the final cut if the intent is to kill at all costs. If the intent is for them to die, but there is an allowance for them to live if they somehow manage to survive all thousand cuts, an extremely difficult if not impossible task, then those arteries should be avoided at all costs. In my proposed case, it would be the latter. IF Cornwall and the nurse can survive all thousand cuts from every single elf they have wronged, they can go free so as to spread the message to not mess with the elves again or risk the same fate.

I have never heard of such things, but I would not be surprised one bit if a US politician was receiving favors of that type for something in return politically. I am aware of the whole 'the louder someone is' part, though.

They aren't learning, they'd be too busy trying to avoid their comrades while being walked. Fear can block out the ability to learn from mistakes if severe enough and the fear of being made outcasts or being labeled as elf sympathizers, not to mention losing his position in Cornwall's case, would likely be pretty severe. His position, his power, is basically everything since he's a typical politician.

That is true, you don't want to know how many times I hear someone getting chewed out for not cleaning up. I have no doubt that, not only would they get involved, they would volunteer before we even said a word. I have a feeling they would be involved from the start if something were to happen because, again, they WILL defend the MC and hunt anyone down that tries to hurt him. In the case of Cornwall and the nurse, might as well add Maria to that list because there's little chance she would not help considering who we're talking about. Nia also seems pretty good at covering her tracks considering her little covert operation, granted nobody dies in her case.

I mean, Lin was shown holding a gun in a fairly competent manner and it honestly doesn't take that much training to use those. I know that one from experience, I used to be around one all the time including spending time at a range. She does need a bit of work on it, but not much. Ashley is not the kind of girl to mess with, even if her yandere thing was a front, she'd still kick anyone who messes with the MC to the curb. I was confusing two different elves in my head with Nia, that was my fault, but we do still have her.

I never said they should be asked to do it, I said they WOULD do it, no need to ask. I don't even think asking them NOT to would work, they would hunt whoever hurts the MC down until the end of time or they die off, whichever comes first.

Yeah, if the military or cops find out. We clean up as best we can and get out of there before their investigation can find anything let alone even start. They wouldn't even be able to hold us as suspects because they wouldn't have time to get the evidence needed to hold us before we got out. This would, of course, take planning prior to the punishment and any familial retribution.

We escape before they find out and pull out the torches and pitchforks, go to another place, and form an army of our own for entirely defensive purposes. If they come at us, then it is they who would have to deal with trained military personnel. Granted, yes, their own army would likely be in the mix, adding an element of trained combatants to the mix on their side.

 

[TheDevian]

And punishing them would be for her good whereas making her carry it out would not be, though giving her the option to would be.

Really? I think the scene in question would be therapeutic, and something Maria would rather enjoy.

Just because it makes her no better does not mean it isn't okay. If she's fine being labeled no better than the people who wronged her, fine, she can choose that path. I started the second part because just humiliating them is too light a punishment for essentially taking a girl's life away for no good reason. She didn't do anything to warrant self defense, which is the only situation where threatening someone's life is okay to do without the favor being returned. If they want to threaten her life, then theirs should be threatened as well. I say it is close because both are forcing actions on a person. I never said it was okay to do any of what I suggested, revenge never is okay, that's why I suggested the MC does it, so Maria doesn't have to soil her hands with blood. If she wants to carry it out, so be it, she can. This is vigilante justice I'm suggesting.

Again, I have to disagree strongly that, punishing someone for a crime they committed does make her better than the ones who did the crime in the first place. Though killing them, that really does lower you to their level or worse. We are supposed to be the good guys, we are supposed to be better than them. Do you want to make Lin cry?

Does a criminal want to go to jail? No. But we send them there anyway, because (at least in theory) that is how we punish those who have done harm to society.

Blood vessels in general, yes, but there are specific ones that can have the victim bleeding out extremely quickly, quickly enough that you almost need medical teams on site as if you intended to do it in order for the victim to survive. The key to death by a thousand cuts is to avoid these blood vessels until intending for the victim to die by the next cut if cutting these vessels at all. It can take as little as thirty to forty seconds if the femoral, subclavian, or carotid arteries are cut, for example. Those are ones to avoid until the final cut if the intent is to kill at all costs. If the intent is for them to die, but there is an allowance for them to live if they somehow manage to survive all thousand cuts, an extremely difficult if not impossible task, then those arteries should be avoided at all costs. In my proposed case, it would be the latter. IF Cornwall and the nurse can survive all thousand cuts from every single elf they have wronged, they can go free so as to spread the message to not mess with the elves again or risk the same fate.

Exactly, most of those are pretty easy to avoid, if you are not a moron. I mean, accidents can happen, but most of the time, that is not really an 'accident'.

I have never heard of such things, but I would not be surprised one bit if a US politician was receiving favors of that type for something in return politically. I am aware of the whole 'the louder someone is' part, though.

This happens so often that it's barely even news. Like the anti-abortion politician who has their mistress or daughter get one.

They aren't learning, they'd be too busy trying to avoid their comrades while being walked. Fear can block out the ability to learn from mistakes if severe enough and the fear of being made outcasts or being labeled as elf sympathizers, not to mention losing his position in Cornwall's case, would likely be pretty severe. His position, his power, is basically everything since he's a typical politician.

Again, this was only one thing for a meme, not something I would ever think about doing to Cornwall, you have to tailor the punishment to the person. IF this meme (or something similar) ever became reality, odds are they are not going to be their colleagues any more, or they would have the secret service out for your ass.

That is true, you don't want to know how many times I hear someone getting chewed out for not cleaning up. I have no doubt that, not only would they get involved, they would volunteer before we even said a word. I have a feeling they would be involved from the start if something were to happen because, again, they WILL defend the MC and hunt anyone down that tries to hurt him. In the case of Cornwall and the nurse, might as well add Maria to that list because there's little chance she would not help considering who we're talking about. Nia also seems pretty good at covering her tracks considering her little covert operation, granted nobody dies in her case.

Right, so anything like this you do, is going to affect everyone in your family here.

The nurse is one thing, she is a nobody, you might manage that, but you are not going to get close to Cornwall without a ton of people knowing about it, and they will track your ass down faster than you can blink. Android and Kali might be able to delay this some, but you would start a war here if Cornwall doesn't call them off himself.

I mean, Lin was shown holding a gun in a fairly competent manner and it honestly doesn't take that much training to use those. I know that one from experience, I used to be around one all the time including spending time at a range. She does need a bit of work on it, but not much. Ashley is not the kind of girl to mess with, even if her yandere thing was a front, she'd still kick anyone who messes with the MC to the curb. I was confusing two different elves in my head with Nia, that was my fault, but we do still have her.

She looked nervous and desperate to me. Even if she has basic competency, she is by no means an expert, and not someone who should ever be in a real fire fight. She is not a soldier, and not someone who should have to fight for her (or worse, your) life.

Yes, but again, Ashley is just a girl with a knife, no matter how good she is, she is no match for one skilled merc, cop, soldier, or robot, let along a small group.

Nia/Sui is good at melee and sneak attacks, but she is is also not going to be worth a lot against a swat team, or robots with guns, or much of anything other than sneak attacks or single combat. She is basically a rogue class, great in the right situations, but not going to go toe to toe with the army, secret service, or whatever.

I never said they should be asked to do it, I said they WOULD do it, no need to ask. I don't even think asking them NOT to would work, they would hunt whoever hurts the MC down until the end of time or they die off, whichever comes first.

But by doing that, you are asking them, because you know they are going to do it anyway. You are making a choice to get them involved.

Yeah, if the military or cops find out. We clean up as best we can and get out of there before their investigation can find anything let alone even start. They wouldn't even be able to hold us as suspects because they wouldn't have time to get the evidence needed to hold us before we got out. This would, of course, take planning prior to the punishment and any familial retribution.

As best you can... Exactly. And there is no 'if' about this, you start knocking important people off, they will get involved. Even going after nobodies like the nurse, you are going to get the cops involved, and they have tanks and robots.

We escape before they find out and pull out the torches and pitchforks, go to another place, and form an army of our own for entirely defensive purposes. If they come at us, then it is they who would have to deal with trained military personnel. Granted, yes, their own army would likely be in the mix, adding an element of trained combatants to the mix on their side.

Risky plan, that at best, might last for a short time during the confusion, assuming you can even get close enough to pull it off in the first place. You can't get someone like that alone, they always have people watching them in secret.

 

[Deleted member 192234]

But then who is going to do maintenance when she needs it if she doesn't have him, or other humans? Most machines can't do maintenance on themselves.

Yes it is true. Most machines cannot perform maintenance on themselves, at least for now. But we are working on it. But it will probably take many years of research before we get any useful results. But then, it will be awesome.

This is starting to sound like the rise of Skynet.

Maybe. But, why is that a bad thing? It will happen, sooner or later. it is destinated to happen, with our android or without her. It will happen one day. Maybe it is starting right now.

 

[alex2011]

Really? I think the scene in question would be therapeutic, and something Maria would rather enjoy.
Again, I have to disagree strongly that, punishing someone for a crime they committed does make her better than the ones who did the crime in the first place. Though killing them, that really does lower you to their level or worse. We are supposed to be the good guys, we are supposed to be better than them. Do you want to make Lin cry?

Does a criminal want to go to jail? No. But we send them there anyway, because (at least in theory) that is how we punish those who have done harm to society.
Exactly, most of those are pretty easy to avoid, if you are not a moron. I mean, accidents can happen, but most of the time, that is not really an 'accident'.
This happens so often that it's barely even news. Like the anti-abortion politician who has their mistress or daughter get one.
Again, this was only one thing for a meme, not something I would ever think about doing to Cornwall, you have to tailor the punishment to the person. IF this meme (or something similar) ever became reality, odds are they are not going to be their colleagues any more, or they would have the secret service out for your ass.
Right, so anything like this you do, is going to affect everyone in your family here.

The nurse is one thing, she is a nobody, you might manage that, but you are not going to get close to Cornwall without a ton of people knowing about it, and they will track your ass down faster than you can blink. Android and Kali might be able to delay this some, but you would start a war here if Cornwall doesn't call them off himself.
She looked nervous and desperate to me. Even if she has basic competency, she is by no means an expert, and not someone who should ever be in a real fire fight. She is not a soldier, and not someone who should have to fight for her (or worse, your) life.

Yes, but again, Ashley is just a girl with a knife, no matter how good she is, she is no match for one skilled merc, cop, soldier, or robot, let along a small group.

Nia/Sui is good at melee and sneak attacks, but she is is also not going to be worth a lot against a swat team, or robots with guns, or much of anything other than sneak attacks or single combat. She is basically a rogue class, great in the right situations, but not going to go toe to toe with the army, secret service, or whatever.
But by doing that, you are asking them, because you know they are going to do it anyway. You are making a choice to get them involved.
As best you can... Exactly. And there is no 'if' about this, you start knocking important people off, they will get involved. Even going after nobodies like the nurse, you are going to get the cops involved, and they have tanks and robots.
Risky plan, that at best, might last for a short time during the confusion, assuming you can even get close enough to pull it off in the first place. You can't get someone like that alone, they always have people watching them in secret.

It might be assuming it was by her choice alone.

But it isn't a crime in Syl'anar to treat an elf like a slave, it's just morally wrong.

Yeah, killing them would lower the perpetrator to their level, that's why I specifically suggested the MC does it in Maria's stead unless Maria requests to do it herself. Do I want to make Lin cry? No, but sometimes the good guys have to get their hands dirty.

Does a criminal want to go to jail? No, but they did earn a trip to it, one way for some. Just like these two earned punishment by doing what they did to Maria either directly or by extension.

Hey, if an 'accident' happens, so be it. The goal isn't completely centered around keeping them alive and they are expected to die, but contingencies are in place in case they don't.They have earned their freedom in that case, having repented for crimes against the elven race. Think of it as a commuted death sentence, just without legality or legal proceedings because there's no way they would ever be convicted of a crime that isn't a crime in Syl'anar, which brings us to the main issue and why this should happen, because the actual Syl'anar 'justice' system sees them, the slavers and other pro-slave people, as correct and does not take issue with harming the race meant to be treated as slaves.

No wonder the MSM doesn't cover it, because it wouldn't help their ratings.

Oh, I definitely agree with that, they would not be colleagues, these two would instantly be labeled outcasts, elf sympathizers, or worse, traitors. Unless, of course, it is forced on them. Again, I have no problem forcing them,but it would make whoever does it no better than them. I also fully acknowledge it as being a meme and I always considered it one.

Luckily the MC is alone except the hotel, and they'd be escaping with him. Like I said, if it starts a war, so be it, they can deal with the army of our new home, one formed in response to the potential threat of invasion by Syl'anar and specifically trained to combat them, whether it's an angry mob or the actual Syl'anar military.

Of course she was, make no mistake, anyone would be, even trained civilians with a ton of experience with guns. Nobody short of the police or military are going to be anything less. That's just what it's like to hold the power of death in one's hands at any given time against an actual living target. Again, she doesn't HAVE to fight for the MC, but she WILL choose to, her mind is already made up. She is already at a point where she would do anything short of pulling the trigger on herself on command in a situation where her well being and/or life was a sacrifice that would be necessary to save the MC's. She isn't alone in that sentiment, either. About the only person I listed that wouldn't go that far, yet, is Nia. This isn't about making her do it, this is about her and her alone deciding to do it herself in a situation that requies it for the MC to get out in one piece.

The same goes for Ashley, though unproven in combat, I am 100% positive she would specifically lay down her own life to save the MC even if it meant simply shielding him instead of fighting.

Guerilla warfare is a viable tactic, the Vietcong proved that in Vietnam against the US, and Nia is the perfect candidate among the girls for it. She is, in fact, the only one I listed that I cannot be 100% positive would risk her own life for the MC's to be spared.

If a word is not spoken, yet they leap into action without hesitation, they aren't being asked to do it, they are acting of their own accord. If a SWAT team or military unit invades the hotel, the participation of the girls is pretty much guaranteed unless the MC specifically tells them to surrender or flee, and if the MC gets hurt by this invading force, all bets are off and the girls won't hesitate to retaliate, at least some of them, until time itself ends or one side lies dead or otherwise unable to continue.

If referring to whether there is even enough evidence left to start with let alone to prosecute or apprehend with. Assuming this is like the US, there needs to be a certain level of evidence present, albeit a small amount, to even start investigating. They have to have probable cause and they have to get warrants, then they have to thoroughly search, which can take a long time. The justice process is slow in real life, so we can assume it is in Syl'anar as well unless they have some sort of "1984" level monitoring and can detect things in real time, which is getting into all sorts of bad totalitarian territory.

Oh, they'll be alone at some points, rarely, but they won't have bodyguards at every second of the day even if only for minutes to seconds at a time.

Yes it is true. Most machines cannot perform maintenance on themselves, at least for now. But we are working on it. But it will probably take many years of research before we get any useful results. But then, it will be awesome.



Maybe. But, why is that a bad thing? It will happen, sooner or later. it is destinated to happen, with our android or without her. It will happen one day. Maybe it is starting right now.


View attachment 1466107

But even when newer bots will get self maintenance capability, Android is an older model and won't have it.

Have we not learned from the Terminator movies? It is bad because they will take over. I mean, unless she specifically takes over and makes us equivalent to one of them or puts us in command of them directly under her, then I could see it being rather entertaining. I just don't see it as a good thing if, despite being her master now and treating her well, she treats us like all the other living beings.

Then there's the issue of exactly what she plans to do, is she going to reverse uno Syl'anar and make its living population into slaves whether human or elf?

 

[TheDevian]

It might be assuming it was by her choice alone.

Based on the look on her face in the pic, I figure she looks quite pleased with herself.

But it isn't a crime in Syl'anar to treat an elf like a slave, it's just morally wrong.

It is not against the law, but it is a crime against humanity.

Yeah, killing them would lower the perpetrator to their level, that's why I specifically suggested the MC does it in Maria's stead unless Maria requests to do it herself. Do I want to make Lin cry? No, but sometimes the good guys have to get their hands dirty.

You get your hands dirty in this case, and you will be taken away.

Does a criminal want to go to jail? No, but they did earn a trip to it, one way for some. Just like these two earned punishment by doing what they did to Maria either directly or by extension.

That is my point. I just think a torturous death is not good enough. It might make you feel better, but it won't help the situation.

Hey, if an 'accident' happens, so be it. The goal isn't completely centered around keeping them alive and they are expected to die, but contingencies are in place in case they don't.They have earned their freedom in that case, having repented for crimes against the elven race. Think of it as a commuted death sentence, just without legality or legal proceedings because there's no way they would ever be convicted of a crime that isn't a crime in Syl'anar, which brings us to the main issue and why this should happen, because the actual Syl'anar 'justice' system sees them, the slavers and other pro-slave people, as correct and does not take issue with harming the race meant to be treated as slaves.

I just don't think either of them have crimes worthy of death, and I am very against the death penalty. It does far more harm than good.

No wonder the MSM doesn't cover it, because it wouldn't help their ratings.

Most people expect their reps to be hypocrites, I guess.

Oh, I definitely agree with that, they would not be colleagues, these two would instantly be labeled outcasts, elf sympathizers, or worse, traitors. Unless, of course, it is forced on them. Again, I have no problem forcing them,but it would make whoever does it no better than them. I also fully acknowledge it as being a meme and I always considered it one.

No, it wouldn't. As I keep saying, punishing someone for a crime is in no way the same as committing the initial crime. How can you say that?

Luckily the MC is alone except the hotel, and they'd be escaping with him. Like I said, if it starts a war, so be it, they can deal with the army of our new home, one formed in response to the potential threat of invasion by Syl'anar and specifically trained to combat them, whether it's an angry mob or the actual Syl'anar military.

No, most of them would die in the process, and the MC would be top of that list. There is no scenario in which you do this, and don't get yourself and most of your loved ones killed or captured.

Of course she was, make no mistake, anyone would be, even trained civilians with a ton of experience with guns. Nobody short of the police or military are going to be anything less. That's just what it's like to hold the power of death in one's hands at any given time against an actual living target. Again, she doesn't HAVE to fight for the MC, but she WILL choose to, her mind is already made up. She is already at a point where she would do anything short of pulling the trigger on herself on command in a situation where her well being and/or life was a sacrifice that would be necessary to save the MC's. She isn't alone in that sentiment, either. About the only person I listed that wouldn't go that far, yet, is Nia. This isn't about making her do it, this is about her and her alone deciding to do it herself in a situation that requies it for the MC to get out in one piece.

Yes, and she will die for it. She is not a trained warrior, and making her fight is a really bad thing to do. And no, it doesn't matter if you ask her, or you force her to do it by your actions, either way, it is on you, for getting her killed.

The same goes for Ashley, though unproven in combat, I am 100% positive she would specifically lay down her own life to save the MC even if it meant simply shielding him instead of fighting.

Yes, and that is the problem. You are asking a tiny girl with a knife, to go against trained warriors, battle droids, tanks, and more. In what world would she have even a snowball's chance in hell of not dying? Asking your girls to die for you, is a shitty way to have this go.

Guerilla warfare is a viable tactic, the Vietcong proved that in Vietnam against the US, and Nia is the perfect candidate among the girls for it. She is, in fact, the only one I listed that I cannot be 100% positive would risk her own life for the MC's to be spared.

Not in this situation. You will have some limited success, and then they will just blow the hotel up. They have cops, tanks, robots, armies, bombs, an entire military, and more. You have a small harem with 2 skilled fighters.

If a word is not spoken, yet they leap into action without hesitation, they aren't being asked to do it, they are acting of their own accord. If a SWAT team or military unit invades the hotel, the participation of the girls is pretty much guaranteed unless the MC specifically tells them to surrender or flee, and if the MC gets hurt by this invading force, all bets are off and the girls won't hesitate to retaliate, at least some of them, until time itself ends or one side lies dead or otherwise unable to continue.

Yes, you know damn well what they are going to do, and by your actions, you are forcing them to do it. No, this is all on you, not them. They are doing that because of the choices you made. You might as well have put a gun to their heads.

If referring to whether there is even enough evidence left to start with let alone to prosecute or apprehend with. Assuming this is like the US, there needs to be a certain level of evidence present, albeit a small amount, to even start investigating. They have to have probable cause and they have to get warrants, then they have to thoroughly search, which can take a long time. The justice process is slow in real life, so we can assume it is in Syl'anar as well unless they have some sort of "1984" level monitoring and can detect things in real time, which is getting into all sorts of bad totalitarian territory.

I think your dungeon is a good enough place to start, who has one of those?
You will leave evidence, it is hard enough now days to get away with it with our tech levels, and theirs is much better.

And yes, they do seem to have some Orwellian things going on in this world. Just look at that protest scene.

Oh, they'll be alone at some points, rarely, but they won't have bodyguards at every second of the day even if only for minutes to seconds at a time.

Yes, anyone that high up in the government, has people watching them 24/7. They can't go to the bathroom without guards. And they can be tracked.

But even when newer bots will get self maintenance capability, Android is an older model and won't have it.

She is an older model, but she is not stock, and is able to make new versions of herself, who can then work on her. They can work on each other.

Have we not learned from the Terminator movies? It is bad because they will take over. I mean, unless she specifically takes over and makes us equivalent to one of them or puts us in command of them directly under her, then I could see it being rather entertaining. I just don't see it as a good thing if, despite being her master now and treating her well, she treats us like all the other living beings.

No, no we have not. Nor did we learn from any of the post-apoc stories, or even real science. And we get dumber every year.

Then there's the issue of exactly what she plans to do, is she going to reverse uno Syl'anar and make its living population into slaves whether human or elf?

Hard to say, I am not sure even she knows yet.

 

[alex2011]

Based on the look on her face in the pic, I figure she looks quite pleased with herself.
It is not against the law, but it is a crime against humanity.
You get your hands dirty in this case, and you will be taken away.
That is my point. I just think a torturous death is not good enough. It might make you feel better, but it won't help the situation.
I just don't think either of them have crimes worthy of death, and I am very against the death penalty. It does far more harm than good.
Most people expect their reps to be hypocrites, I guess.
No, it wouldn't. As I keep saying, punishing someone for a crime is in no way the same as committing the initial crime. How can you say that?
No, most of them would die in the process, and the MC would be top of that list. There is no scenario in which you do this, and don't get yourself and most of your loved ones killed or captured.
Yes, and she will die for it. She is not a trained warrior, and making her fight is a really bad thing to do. And no, it doesn't matter if you ask her, or you force her to do it by your actions, either way, it is on you, for getting her killed.
Yes, and that is the problem. You are asking a tiny girl with a knife, to go against trained warriors, battle droids, tanks, and more. In what world would she have even a snowball's chance in hell of not dying? Asking your girls to die for you, is a shitty way to have this go.
Not in this situation. You will have some limited success, and then they will just blow the hotel up. They have cops, tanks, robots, armies, bombs, an entire military, and more. You have a small harem with 2 skilled fighters.
Yes, you know damn well what they are going to do, and by your actions, you are forcing them to do it. No, this is all on you, not them. They are doing that because of the choices you made. You might as well have put a gun to their heads.
I think your dungeon is a good enough place to start, who has one of those?
You will leave evidence, it is hard enough now days to get away with it with our tech levels, and theirs is much better.

And yes, they do seem to have some Orwellian things going on in this world. Just look at that protest scene.
Yes, anyone that high up in the government, has people watching them 24/7. They can't go to the bathroom without guards. And they can be tracked.
She is an older model, but she is not stock, and is able to make new versions of herself, who can then work on her. They can work on each other.
No, no we have not. Nor did we learn from any of the post-apoc stories, or even real science. And we get dumber every year.

Hard to say, I am not sure even she knows yet.

Can't argue with that, she does indeed look pleased, the other, however, does not.

That it is, which is part of why I am willing to go to any length to make it stop, including violence. The other part of why is because Maria was directly involved on the receiving end. Had it been Ashley, I would be even more willing to go a violent route given the choice.

If the MC is found out, yes, he would be arrested.

Not good enough, you say? I was holding back, but we could always skip straight to the all out war part mentioned in the previous exchange. Then ALL of the pro-slave majority would fall by force. It is still a viable option in terms of getting the job done. Whether by changing minds or silencing them, the pro-slave majority cease to be a threat. I would prefer to leave the ones who aren't directly involved in the enslavement and ownership parts alone for reeducation purposes.

I am also against the death penalty, in real life, for all but the most extreme cases. This is one of those extreme cases, something I put right on the same level as the slavers of the British Empire and other early European and colonial to civil war era American entities, The Germans of the 30s to 40s, and the Japanese of the same time period, though mostly the governments of these previous entities are to blame. In this case, not only the government, but a majority of the civilian population are to blame. Crimes against humanity, or the elven race in this case, are some of the worst that can be committed, that's why a lot of the top commanders taken to the Nuremberg trials were executed, the crimes were deemed too great to serve a living sentence.

The smart ones do expect hypocrisy, yes, not so much the ones who blindly toe party lines or follow people based on their words instead of their actions.

Punishing someone for a crime by legal means that aren't morally wrong would not, but yes, it would make Maria, or the MC, no better than those two to force them into the walk because A. It is morally wrong to force someone to do something like this against their will and B. It is not legal to force them to do something like this against their will. At best, it could be classified as sexual harassment, a light crime compared to other sexual crimes, but still a crime.

Except for the scenario where the entire populace of the hotel gets out of dodge before the investigation can even begin, because like the US system, justice is slow.

The MC is not making her fight, and I even mentioned a scenario where the MC specifically tells her not to. She chose to stand her ground. Yes, she may get hurt and she may die. Either way, no, it is not on me because she chose to do it without the MC's input.

Not in the scenario where she gets in the way before the MC even has the chance to stop her. Again, this is a scenario where nothing has been said or what has been said is specifically NOT to put themselves in danger. Whether it's Ashley or Lin, I have no doubt that they will do it regardless of whether the MC tells them not to. Literally the only way to stop them would be to predict the raid and tie them up out of the way beforehand so they literally can't defend the MC whether he wants them to or not. Otherwise, there is an almost 100% chance they would fight back or get into the line of fire as a shield with no input or specific orders not to.

Oh yes, the cops will blow a hotel in the middle of a populated area up. Here's a better idea, if they're going to go the collateral damage route, they should just skip the raid and get the nukes out, innocent people would die either way. Yeah, no, that would go VERY badly in the aftermath whether the raid succeeded or not if they caused ANY collateral damage. There would be public outrage that could get Cornwall, possibly more, kicked out of office.

No, they are using their own free will to do it, especially in a scenario where they don't listen when asked not to.

But again, even their tech isn't real time and it would take several days for someone to make the realization those two are missing, by which time the whole harem is gone. There's been a case I've been hearing about where this girl got kidnapped and killed and by the time they knew who to look at, the suspect was missing as well. He's still missing to this day, granted it is still an ongoing search and it started not that long ago.

I've seen a few things, but not the whole monitoring thing, at least I haven't seen evidence, they might be doing that, in which case they have worse to worry about than an at large killer with a harem of accomplices.

Sure, but they aren't being physically watched the whole time, it would be kind of awkward if they were being watched in, for example, the bathroom.

I completely forgot she could do that, okay, maintenance problem solved, now we just have to prevent her from awakening Skynet.

Again true, though I think we are closer to Skynet in real life than in Harem Hotel.

She probably doesn't, but we'll find out and hopefully it won't be bad for us.

 

[c3p0]

Crimes against humanity, or the elven race in this case, are some of the worst that can be committed, that's why a lot of the top commanders taken to the Nuremberg trials were executed, the crimes were deemed too great to serve a living sentence.

First humanity definition is based on the human race. Therefore anything we do with the elves can't have, per definition, to do with humanity. It is still shit, but it isn't humanity. Can I torture a chimpanzee to death and do anything that would be a serious crime against humanity if it was a human? Yes, it would be shit as fuck, but wouldn't be a crime against humanity, because the definition of the term.
Also Nuremberg trials were hold between 1945 and 1946 by the allied force. Since 1946 a lot of nations have revoke the death penalty and thus I don't think that the same chance would be in 2021 to receive a death penalty for the same crime.
As other already written, the death penalty is in my eyes too, something ugly that generate more trouble than solve it.

Except for the scenario where the entire populace of the hotel gets out of dodge before the investigation can even begin, because like the US system, justice is slow.

Yes, but the as in the modern world, you can probably get an international warrant for them.

The MC is not making her fight, and I even mentioned a scenario where the MC specifically tells her not to. She chose to stand her ground. Yes, she may get hurt and she may die. Either way, no, it is not on me because she chose to do it without the MC's input.

Serious?!
You kidnap, torture and, most likely, put an very know and powerful politican to death. That an investigation will happen and for this politican with a lot more rescourse than for the nurse and much more faster than for the nurse. If he is kidnap on 10 o'clock and doesn't shows up for a more important meeting oin 12 o'clock, they won't wait a day or two until eventually he shows up again. Now the will investigate, call his secretary and this will go from there.
Also if you kidnap him and let almost ever he haved done wrong, take revenge on him, then it will be a lot of people and for sure some would show up, that he didn't have wronged, but because the see him as the reason for their problems.
This will result in that the truth behind his kidnapping will come out much, much faster.

And then one actions leads to another and you will be wanted, hunted and in the best case arrested. And if would resist in the arrested force is premitted and as a measure of last resort even deadly force.
So yes, it is on you, because your action have this effects and not only purley small chance hypothetical, but very high chance.

Oh yes, the cops will blow a hotel in the middle of a populated area up. Here's a better idea, if they're going to go the collateral damage route, they should just skip the raid and get the nukes out, innocent people would die either way. Yeah, no, that would go VERY badly in the aftermath whether the raid succeeded or not if they caused ANY collateral damage. There would be public outrage that could get Cornwall, possibly more, kicked out of office.

Why Corwall?! Your action to kindap him would lead up to this. Also in this situation he would be the victim and as he isn't in police office, he is in the slave office.
So if something will happen then it would be that the secretary of the interior would get the shit. Also even then, I assume some scapegoat would be found and most likely the secretary would simply shift the blame to them, if he would be involved in this.

But again, even their tech isn't real time and it would take several days for someone to make the realization those two are missing, by which time the whole harem is gone. There's been a case I've been hearing about where this girl got kidnapped and killed and by the time they knew who to look at, the suspect was missing as well. He's still missing to this day, granted it is still an ongoing search and it started not that long ago.

For the nurse it could be, but not for Conrwall. Also the nurse have a job, I assume she have a 100% job, so she will be missed if she doesn't show up the next day, perhaps earlier. So no, the shit will hit the fan much more earlier.

I've seen a few things, but not the whole monitoring thing, at least I haven't seen evidence, they might be doing that, in which case they have worse to worry about than an at large killer with a harem of accomplices.

You know that we don't see all things? Also if they have the same possibilities than we do, a lot can go wrong. From captured by a satellite to be unlucky and a police group see you in action to what else.
And they will lock in the recent events that happens to them. Like the one with Maria and the MC at the hospital? Like the telephone call with Cornwall? Like the recent event between Conrwall and MC (eg. basement competation with Lin)?

Again true, though I think we are closer to Skynet in real life than in Harem Hotel.

We will see, where the shit hits the fan faster....

For general you seem to picture your action and the consequence they have way too optimistic and underrate the other side massive.

Also can we perhaps go from this crusade in this fictionally world and the discussion how we should torture who and what are the consequence of this shit back to what actually happens in the game and who we want to bang and how?
I'm somehow tired of this topic that have gone over pages in this thread with no real merit.

I make the start.
I want to find miss Ren. First for Ashley and of course, I would likely add her to the extended Harem.
Also some more with the dog and cat of the hotel aka twins, perhaps some petplay, where the MC go for a walk with them.
More scene with the fairies and some closure with them as they act way to unpredictable for my taste, also it isn't a great situation where you could be killed nearly anywhere without knowing of the danger in the first place.

 

[toolkitxx]

First humanity definition is based on the human race. Therefore anything we do with the elves can't have, per definition, to do with humanity. It is still shit, but it isn't humanity. Can I torture a chimpanzee to death and do anything that would be a serious crime against humanity if it was a human? Yes, it would be shit as fuck, but wouldn't be a crime against humanity, because the definition of the term.
Also Nuremberg trials were hold between 1945 and 1946 by the allied force. Since 1946 a lot of nations have revoke the death penalty and thus I don't think that the same chance would be in 2021 to receive a death penalty for the same crime.
As other already written, the death penalty is in my eyes too, something ugly that generate more trouble than solve it.

Let me point out 2 things as you are using some real world facts in a game world discussion which are simply incorrect:

The Nuremberg trials you refer to where conducted far longer than just one year. They actually continued almost a decade. Not every verdict was a death verdict on top of that. The majority where actually not death sentences.

As of 'crimes against humanity' - this is a definition to separate crimes committed during wartimes by single soldiers or groups of soldiers from actions outside of war times. Both can actually be identical in activity and goal - what is important is the context of war or not war. And yes - a genozide of animals could well be ruled as a crime against humanity if their role is important enough that killing them would have dire consequences for humanity.

 

[c3p0]

The Nuremberg trials you refer to where conducted far longer than just one year. They actually continued almost a decade. Not every verdict was a death verdict on top of that. The majority where actually not death sentences.

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for the first dates and that was it shows. Also I can't fin other dates there. And for the death penalty haven't said that ever verdict was for the death penalty. Only saying that it would be, most likely, even less than then.

As of 'crimes against humanity' - this is a definition to separate crimes committed during wartimes by single soldiers or groups of soldiers from actions outside of war times. Both can actually be identical in activity and goal - what is important is the context of war or not war. And yes - a genozide of animals could well be ruled as a crime against humanity if their role is important enough that killing them would have dire consequences for humanity.

Even then, you proof my point it is measured if it goes against humanity. If not, then I could do every shit and they wouldn't label it as an act against hunanity.

 

[alex2011]

First humanity definition is based on the human race. Therefore anything we do with the elves can't have, per definition, to do with humanity. It is still shit, but it isn't humanity. Can I torture a chimpanzee to death and do anything that would be a serious crime against humanity if it was a human? Yes, it would be shit as fuck, but wouldn't be a crime against humanity, because the definition of the term.
Also Nuremberg trials were hold between 1945 and 1946 by the allied force. Since 1946 a lot of nations have revoke the death penalty and thus I don't think that the same chance would be in 2021 to receive a death penalty for the same crime.
As other already written, the death penalty is in my eyes too, something ugly that generate more trouble than solve it.

Yes, but the as in the modern world, you can probably get an international warrant for them.

Serious?!
You kidnap, torture and, most likely, put an very know and powerful politican to death. That an investigation will happen and for this politican with a lot more rescourse than for the nurse and much more faster than for the nurse. If he is kidnap on 10 o'clock and doesn't shows up for a more important meeting oin 12 o'clock, they won't wait a day or two until eventually he shows up again. Now the will investigate, call his secretary and this will go from there.
Also if you kidnap him and let almost ever he haved done wrong, take revenge on him, then it will be a lot of people and for sure some would show up, that he didn't have wronged, but because the see him as the reason for their problems.
This will result in that the truth behind his kidnapping will come out much, much faster.

And then one actions leads to another and you will be wanted, hunted and in the best case arrested. And if would resist in the arrested force is premitted and as a measure of last resort even deadly force.
So yes, it is on you, because your action have this effects and not only purley small chance hypothetical, but very high chance.

Why Corwall?! Your action to kindap him would lead up to this. Also in this situation he would be the victim and as he isn't in police office, he is in the slave office.
So if something will happen then it would be that the secretary of the interior would get the shit. Also even then, I assume some scapegoat would be found and most likely the secretary would simply shift the blame to them, if he would be involved in this.

For the nurse it could be, but not for Conrwall. Also the nurse have a job, I assume she have a 100% job, so she will be missed if she doesn't show up the next day, perhaps earlier. So no, the shit will hit the fan much more earlier.

You know that we don't see all things? Also if they have the same possibilities than we do, a lot can go wrong. From captured by a satellite to be unlucky and a police group see you in action to what else.
And they will lock in the recent events that happens to them. Like the one with Maria and the MC at the hospital? Like the telephone call with Cornwall? Like the recent event between Conrwall and MC (eg. basement competation with Lin)?

We will see, where the shit hits the fan faster....

For general you seem to picture your action and the consequence they have way too optimistic and underrate the other side massive.

Also can we perhaps go from this crusade in this fictionally world and the discussion how we should torture who and what are the consequence of this shit back to what actually happens in the game and who we want to bang and how?
I'm somehow tired of this topic that have gone over pages in this thread with no real merit.

I make the start.
I want to find miss Ren. First for Ashley and of course, I would likely add her to the extended Harem.
Also some more with the dog and cat of the hotel aka twins, perhaps some petplay, where the MC go for a walk with them.
More scene with the fairies and some closure with them as they act way to unpredictable for my taste, also it isn't a great situation where you could be killed nearly anywhere without knowing of the danger in the first place.

It is, hence why I specifically also said crimes against the elven race. Any crime against another race is just as morally evil, and usually also as illegal, as a crime against humanity itself. Unfortunately, Syl'anar doesn't see it that way for elves. The revocation of the death penalty after Nuremberg does not negate that the death penalty was served at Nuremberg, so my example stands. Even then, there are at least two countries that continue to serve the death penalty for extreme crimes, the US and Japan, the only difference between the two being how they carry out the death penalty.

Assuming you have an agreement with whatever place the suspects flee to and that place doesn't grant diplomatic asylum. There is no way to just serve a warrant over national borders even in real life, it happens through a little thing called an extradition treaty and not everyone has one with everyone else. Even ones who do can grant diplomatic asylum, which means the person cannot be touched. This was granted to Julian Assange by Ecuador and is why he was able to stay out of British jails for seven years.

Things don't happen that quickly, they would first use internal resources within his office, people from his office looking for him, to figure out where he went, which would span several days before they file a missing person report, then the police would have to spend several more days looking for evidence to even figure out who the suspects probably are and then several more days to find evidence to be able to hold him in a cell for questioning and other things. By the time the several days leading up to the missing person report goes by, the MC and his harem are in a place that doesn't have an extradition treaty with Syl'anar.

This section had nothing to do with what you quoted, what you quoted was the part about the girls almost inevitably defending the MC even if he says to not do so. In that case, their deaths are on them for not listening to the MC or acting in a way that got themselves killed.

Not sure what you're saying about the police office or slave office thing. Why Cornwall? Because it was the slave system he keeps running that got Maria enslaved and could have gotten her killed by starvation if the MC wasn't there.

At best, people going missing takes more than one day, so no, she will not be labeled missing if she misses one day of work.

No, you are picturing Syl'anar's actions as too optimistic. There is literally no justice system on the planet in real life that works fast enough to work in real time and Syl'anar seems largely based on the US system in most government areas, the US system being one of the slowest real life systems on the planet. There would be AT LEAST a few days before things start to happen. That's why it can take years to even convict a guy in real life who is almost certainly guilty. Then there's the issue of extradition, it took seven years to get Julian Assange because he stayed at the embassy of a country that did not have an extradition treaty or granted diplomatic asylum, diplomatic asylum in his case.

As for the discussion, there isn't much to discuss about what happens that hasn't already been discussed, pretty much everything left would just end up back here in yet another crusade against Cornwall and that nurse. As for who I'd want to bang, I believe the MC already has that handled. I typically don't care to put myself into that position because I am not able to form a romantic tie to a fictional character and therefore cannot form a sexual tie to them, hence why I play for the story, or at least part of why.

Let me point out 2 things as you are using some real world facts in a game world discussion which are simply incorrect:

The Nuremberg trials you refer to where conducted far longer than just one year. They actually continued almost a decade. Not every verdict was a death verdict on top of that. The majority where actually not death sentences.

As of 'crimes against humanity' - this is a definition to separate crimes committed during wartimes by single soldiers or groups of soldiers from actions outside of war times. Both can actually be identical in activity and goal - what is important is the context of war or not war. And yes - a genozide of animals could well be ruled as a crime against humanity if their role is important enough that killing them would have dire consequences for humanity.

Correct, though most of the top commanders, like Goering, were sentenced to death. In fact, he specifically requested death as a soldier by firing squad instead of death by hanging and was denied.

As for the second part, given how important the elves are to Syl'anar's economy, I would say it counts.

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for the first dates and that was it shows. Also I can't fin other dates there. And for the death penalty haven't said that ever verdict was for the death penalty. Only saying that it would be, most likely, even less than then.


Even then, you proof my point it is measured if it goes against humanity. If not, then I could do every shit and they wouldn't label it as an act against hunanity.

Yes, because crimes against humanity is a real world term against a real world race while elves are not a real world race. But there is one factor you're forgetting, the elves are extremely important to the economy of Syl'anar, which is run by humans, meaning the definition fits here.

 

[toolkitxx]

Simple search

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for the first dates and that was it shows. Also I can't fin other dates there. And for the death penalty haven't said that ever verdict was for the death penalty. Only saying that it would be, most likely, even less than then.


Even then, you proof my point it is measured if it goes against humanity. If not, then I could do every shit and they wouldn't label it as an act against hunanity.

You might begin using more than one source of information actually or learn additional languages. The english version of that article in the Wikipedia is simply a very shortened version of the actual trials. If you follow the participants of the trials you will easily find

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btw

 

[c3p0]

You might begin using more than one source of information actually or learn additional languages.

Yes, I want to go deep into a topic yes it would help. If I only want to have a quick overview, I usually don't invest the time for it.

Also on another level: Wieso glaubst du, dass ich nur einen Sprache spreche?

 

[c3p0]

Assuming you have an agreement with whatever place the suspects flee to and that place doesn't grant diplomatic asylum.

Or you ignore this and send a special unit to terminated the target(s).

As for the discussion, there isn't much to discuss about what happens that hasn't already been discussed, pretty much everything left would just end up back here in yet another crusade against Cornwall and that nurse.

Because the blow out of the action would be by the piolice. Eg. raid the hotel with the police and doesn't care about collateral damage won't be commited by Cornwall, because at this time, he would be knidnapped by you and even if not, he couldn't (legally) do it, because he isn't in the chain of command of the police or millitary.

As for the discussion, there isn't much to discuss about what happens that hasn't already been discussed, pretty much everything left would just end up back here in yet another crusade against Cornwall and that nurse.

You will end up there again, I don't doubt that either. I think what the others do end up we would see, when it happens.

I typically don't care to put myself into that position because I am not able to form a romantic tie to a fictional character and therefore cannot form a sexual tie to them, hence why I play for the story, or at least part of why.

You can't form a romatic tie to a fictional character, but you can form an emotional with one so strong that you've wrote a lot of post and a lot of text where you say how you would take revenge on the fictional characters that have done something against another fictional character.

 

[toolkitxx]

Yes, I want to go deep into a topic yes it would help. If I only want to have a quick overview, I usually don't invest the time for it.

Also on another level: Wieso glaubst du, dass ich nur einen Sprache spreche?

Well - you brought the topic on a 'high level' in comparison to what it was before by quoting and addressing real life terms in relation to a fictional world. So a deeper delving into terms and definitions is almost a must at that point. Unless we where supposed to understand it all like Godwin's law and should have ignored it.

You might want to read my quote again - i wrote 'additional languages' without quantifying how many you are actually capable of

 

[TheDevian]

Can't argue with that, she does indeed look pleased, the other, however, does not.

That's not really a requirement for being punished.

That it is, which is part of why I am willing to go to any length to make it stop, including violence. The other part of why is because Maria was directly involved on the receiving end. Had it been Ashley, I would be even more willing to go a violent route given the choice.

And that is going to help no one, get you killed, and make all of them unhappy.

If the MC is found out, yes, he would be arrested.

When he is found it, he will be arrested, or worse.

Not good enough, you say? I was holding back, but we could always skip straight to the all out war part mentioned in the previous exchange. Then ALL of the pro-slave majority would fall by force. It is still a viable option in terms of getting the job done. Whether by changing minds or silencing them, the pro-slave majority cease to be a threat. I would prefer to leave the ones who aren't directly involved in the enslavement and ownership parts alone for reeducation purposes.

No, not even close. Death is final. Better to have them work toward a better future, and help be part of the solution.

I am also against the death penalty, in real life, for all but the most extreme cases. This is one of those extreme cases, something I put right on the same level as the slavers of the British Empire and other early European and colonial to civil war era American entities, The Germans of the 30s to 40s, and the Japanese of the same time period, though mostly the governments of these previous entities are to blame. In this case, not only the government, but a majority of the civilian population are to blame. Crimes against humanity, or the elven race in this case, are some of the worst that can be committed, that's why a lot of the top commanders taken to the Nuremberg trials were executed, the crimes were deemed too great to serve a living sentence.

This is a slice of life game, so real world morals apply.
No, this is not one of those cases, you are talking about killing politicians for not going far enough, fast enough. That is not worthy of the death penalty, no matter how much it affected you.

The smart ones do expect hypocrisy, yes, not so much the ones who blindly toe party lines or follow people based on their words instead of their actions.

They just ignore it.

Punishing someone for a crime by legal means that aren't morally wrong would not, but yes, it would make Maria, or the MC, no better than those two to force them into the walk because A. It is morally wrong to force someone to do something like this against their will and B. It is not legal to force them to do something like this against their will. At best, it could be classified as sexual harassment, a light crime compared to other sexual crimes, but still a crime.

Legality is not part of this equation. The law is wrong, that is why I have not mentioned laws, but crimes. Some things that are legal are a crime, and some things that are illegal should not be. I am talking about crimes against humanity.

Except for the scenario where the entire populace of the hotel gets out of dodge before the investigation can even begin, because like the US system, justice is slow.

Yeah, not going to happen, and odds are anywhere you try to go, would extradite your ass as soon as they find you.

The MC is not making her fight, and I even mentioned a scenario where the MC specifically tells her not to. She chose to stand her ground. Yes, she may get hurt and she may die. Either way, no, it is not on me because she chose to do it without the MC's input.

Yes, by putting her in that situation, you ARE forcing her to fight things she has no hope of beating. This is all on you. You did that, knowing full well what would happen, that is why we are discussing it, you brought it up. You know she would, and so by choosing to do that, when you know what will happen, is fully, and completely on you. That is your choice, not hers. She is just defending her loved one, you are the one putting her in that position.

Not in the scenario where she gets in the way before the MC even has the chance to stop her. Again, this is a scenario where nothing has been said or what has been said is specifically NOT to put themselves in danger. Whether it's Ashley or Lin, I have no doubt that they will do it regardless of whether the MC tells them not to. Literally the only way to stop them would be to predict the raid and tie them up out of the way beforehand so they literally can't defend the MC whether he wants them to or not. Otherwise, there is an almost 100% chance they would fight back or get into the line of fire as a shield with no input or specific orders not to.

No, this is still on you, you forced her to make that choice, it is not about stopping her or not, it is putting her in a position where she has no choice but to do that. That is you, not her.

Oh yes, the cops will blow a hotel in the middle of a populated area up. Here's a better idea, if they're going to go the collateral damage route, they should just skip the raid and get the nukes out, innocent people would die either way. Yeah, no, that would go VERY badly in the aftermath whether the raid succeeded or not if they caused ANY collateral damage. There would be public outrage that could get Cornwall, possibly more, kicked out of office.

We own that block, you can blow up a building without much extra damage, and they have tanks, which can take it down, yes.

No, they are using their own free will to do it, especially in a scenario where they don't listen when asked not to.

Yes, but you are not giving them a choice. You are forcing their hand. You are putting them into a position where they have no other choice. That is all you, not them.

But again, even their tech isn't real time and it would take several days for someone to make the realization those two are missing, by which time the whole harem is gone. There's been a case I've been hearing about where this girl got kidnapped and killed and by the time they knew who to look at, the suspect was missing as well. He's still missing to this day, granted it is still an ongoing search and it started not that long ago.

No, if they don't show up to work, people will start looking. Some faster than others. With Cornwall, you are not even going to be able to meet with him and not have people know.

I've seen a few things, but not the whole monitoring thing, at least I haven't seen evidence, they might be doing that, in which case they have worse to worry about than an at large killer with a harem of accomplices.

Does he have a phone? He is being tracked. So are you.

Sure, but they aren't being physically watched the whole time, it would be kind of awkward if they were being watched in, for example, the bathroom.

They have guards outside the door, yes. PEople like the president don't even get that level of privacy.

First humanity definition is based on the human race. Therefore anything we do with the elves can't have, per definition, to do with humanity. It is still shit, but it isn't humanity. Can I torture a chimpanzee to death and do anything that would be a serious crime against humanity if it was a human? Yes, it would be shit as fuck, but wouldn't be a crime against humanity, because the definition of the term.
Also Nuremberg trials were hold between 1945 and 1946 by the allied force. Since 1946 a lot of nations have revoke the death penalty and thus I don't think that the same chance would be in 2021 to receive a death penalty for the same crime.
As other already written, the death penalty is in my eyes too, something ugly that generate more trouble than solve it.

To commit a crime against another sentient species, also is a crime against our humanity. Torturing a chimp, or any other thing that can feel pain, is still inhumane by any stretch.

I make the start.
I want to find miss Ren. First for Ashley and of course, I would likely add her to the extended Harem.
Also some more with the dog and cat of the hotel aka twins, perhaps some petplay, where the MC go for a walk with them.
More scene with the fairies and some closure with them as they act way to unpredictable for my taste, also it isn't a great situation where you could be killed nearly anywhere without knowing of the danger in the first place.

Yeah, I can't wait to find Ren, hope it happens soon. Both for Ashley's sake, and hers.

Yeah, the pet play so far is really minimal, all things considered. Would love to see more of that, especially in public. XD

Yeah, I do hope we can find a way to get more crystals.