theOrangeEmperor
Newbie
- Feb 3, 2018
- 73
- 143
I want to say a few things before I log off for a small while. I am obviously not expecting to make a response to this due to personal reasons and grief, so if one would like to respond, feel free.
1. I want to emphasize that I by no means believe that one has to agree with R, me, Parcel, whoever else has come up nor do you have to like Vanessa. Art, yes this is art, is subjective. You can like something or dislike something. There are real arguments of Star Wars v Star Trek, even though they are not even the same genera. The arguments that exist are those of which genera they prefer, and not what sci-fi property they prefer (Star Wars ain't Sci-Fi). That said, people debate between Mario and Crash of which platforming style they prefer, or between MK and Street Fighter for smaller preferences in 2d fighting games. Someone not liking a character, an event, or a piece of media is obviously fine.
2. This is not directed towards anyone specifically, just a few general complaints. To Dr.Free, my last post was actually a response to someone who said Vanessa had no narrative weight, which was not you IIRC. Although a couple of things you said are in here, this is not a direct response to you.
3. As an artist, R has the final say. Whether or not he executes something well is a fair criticism, and I think the criticism that he didn't handle Vanessa well is fair, even if I don't agree with it. I had a small exchange with him with some things I didn't quite like about the museum event this update, and I think he'd adjust those things if he made the event tomorrow. I also had a small exchange over Autumn's shower arc with him, and how I wasn't a big fan of some of the event structures he was trying in v10. R and I have disagreements, but it has to be framed reasonably and in good faith. Blanket statements or wishing to kill characters off aren't good-faith arguments or discussions.
4. As for the complaints about politicization, this has been coming since the beginning. Lin's story either ends with her free or it doesn't, and I doubt most decent people are going to end it with "she doesn't". If one desires to have it end with her still in bondage, I want nothing to do with you. That means to tell her story effectively, the narrative has to become political as it explores emancipation, fighting for freedom, etc. It is difficult to say "I want to be free and equal" without touching upon the turbulent fight for freedom, the baby steps to cultural equality, the pushback, etc. One may not like it, but it is true, and I am in the camp where I am saddened where that is true. Meanwhile, Kali's story, the negative effects of wealth, was going to similarly follow political paths, because, in most democratic societies, wealth, power, and politics are intertwined. Finally, there's Autumn, who deals with religion, and anybody who says religion isn't politics has no idea what they are talking about. Politics and religion are peanut butter and jelly, and that's true even if discussing atheism and/or secularism. These were always the political ones, and I think most political characters are going to be met through their stories. So far, I've been right.
5. As for the "MAGA and Antifa" complaints or critiques on general leftism, grow up snowflake (always wanted to say that). R has used real-world precedent for worldbuilding, one of which I argued with him over was the use of a "Showa" state for the common elf queen. The revolution described is the French Revolution retold. R likes to use real-world examples to build his universe, if MAGA and Antifa are used as inspiration, don't expect him to agree with you because he is not obligated to. If your issue is their use in general, reassess what you're playing. This ain't a pork simulator, this is a narrative that happens to have porn. I see it closer to ASOIF than Summertime Saga.
6. Getting back to Vanessa, yeah she was a bitch. The event absolutely could've been handled differently. Hindsight is 20/20 but there also needs to be a recognition that not everybody can be pleased. R does have some habit of making unlikeable characters loveable as time goes on, so these issues are expected to fade into the background from my perspective. Even if he doesn't, nobody is forcing you to play this game, Vanessa's story when it inevitably happens, or support R if one does. I hate to sound bitchy myself, but this is a free market, take it or leave it.
Edit, per a reasonable request:
MAGA is referring to Make America Great Again.
ASOIF is the formal acronym for a franchise more commonly known as Game of Thrones.
1. I want to emphasize that I by no means believe that one has to agree with R, me, Parcel, whoever else has come up nor do you have to like Vanessa. Art, yes this is art, is subjective. You can like something or dislike something. There are real arguments of Star Wars v Star Trek, even though they are not even the same genera. The arguments that exist are those of which genera they prefer, and not what sci-fi property they prefer (Star Wars ain't Sci-Fi). That said, people debate between Mario and Crash of which platforming style they prefer, or between MK and Street Fighter for smaller preferences in 2d fighting games. Someone not liking a character, an event, or a piece of media is obviously fine.
2. This is not directed towards anyone specifically, just a few general complaints. To Dr.Free, my last post was actually a response to someone who said Vanessa had no narrative weight, which was not you IIRC. Although a couple of things you said are in here, this is not a direct response to you.
3. As an artist, R has the final say. Whether or not he executes something well is a fair criticism, and I think the criticism that he didn't handle Vanessa well is fair, even if I don't agree with it. I had a small exchange with him with some things I didn't quite like about the museum event this update, and I think he'd adjust those things if he made the event tomorrow. I also had a small exchange over Autumn's shower arc with him, and how I wasn't a big fan of some of the event structures he was trying in v10. R and I have disagreements, but it has to be framed reasonably and in good faith. Blanket statements or wishing to kill characters off aren't good-faith arguments or discussions.
4. As for the complaints about politicization, this has been coming since the beginning. Lin's story either ends with her free or it doesn't, and I doubt most decent people are going to end it with "she doesn't". If one desires to have it end with her still in bondage, I want nothing to do with you. That means to tell her story effectively, the narrative has to become political as it explores emancipation, fighting for freedom, etc. It is difficult to say "I want to be free and equal" without touching upon the turbulent fight for freedom, the baby steps to cultural equality, the pushback, etc. One may not like it, but it is true, and I am in the camp where I am saddened where that is true. Meanwhile, Kali's story, the negative effects of wealth, was going to similarly follow political paths, because, in most democratic societies, wealth, power, and politics are intertwined. Finally, there's Autumn, who deals with religion, and anybody who says religion isn't politics has no idea what they are talking about. Politics and religion are peanut butter and jelly, and that's true even if discussing atheism and/or secularism. These were always the political ones, and I think most political characters are going to be met through their stories. So far, I've been right.
5. As for the "MAGA and Antifa" complaints or critiques on general leftism, grow up snowflake (always wanted to say that). R has used real-world precedent for worldbuilding, one of which I argued with him over was the use of a "Showa" state for the common elf queen. The revolution described is the French Revolution retold. R likes to use real-world examples to build his universe, if MAGA and Antifa are used as inspiration, don't expect him to agree with you because he is not obligated to. If your issue is their use in general, reassess what you're playing. This ain't a pork simulator, this is a narrative that happens to have porn. I see it closer to ASOIF than Summertime Saga.
6. Getting back to Vanessa, yeah she was a bitch. The event absolutely could've been handled differently. Hindsight is 20/20 but there also needs to be a recognition that not everybody can be pleased. R does have some habit of making unlikeable characters loveable as time goes on, so these issues are expected to fade into the background from my perspective. Even if he doesn't, nobody is forcing you to play this game, Vanessa's story when it inevitably happens, or support R if one does. I hate to sound bitchy myself, but this is a free market, take it or leave it.
Edit, per a reasonable request:
MAGA is referring to Make America Great Again.
ASOIF is the formal acronym for a franchise more commonly known as Game of Thrones.
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