You're on this website 24/7 and are on discord talking to devs all the time, of course you're in the minority haha. Most people don't even comment. You know more about Harem Hotel than a lot of people.
That is part of it, but I also have a knack for that kind of thing. I am almost never surprised by things like that in stories. Things that seem obvious to me, tend to go over most people's heads, should see some of the talks in some other threads, like the spy in Headmaster. People were saying I was reading way too much into it, and low and behold, a few updates later... XD
I'm not saying there should be an option to stop her. I'm saying there should have been an option to TRY and talk her out of it, even though it'd be doomed to failure to keep the story on track.
If the player knows that her going is a terrible idea, it feels horribly passive to just sit there and just go along with her plan without even ATTEMPTING to change her mind. I understand why those options can't be as blunt as "you're a half-elf, let's not give your blood to the government", but I'd still have liked to feel like the MC (my avatar in this world) had tried to do what I (the player) know is best, even though the MC's reasons would have had to be different than my own.
Would I LIKE an option where you discuss her being a half-elf, and that's why she shouldn't go? Yes, I would, but I know why it's not there; I thought the clues were pretty obvious, but this discussion has proven that they were not. Hence, such an option would have confused a lot of people. I legitimately didn't realise how few people put it together.
Go me.
I really thought you intended everyone to put two and two together; Hell, I even thought Maria was subtly dropping hints a few times, and only realised that wasn't the case when she happily walked into the lion's den.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not upset. I'm expressing a difference of opinion, one that was caused because I thought the majority of people would have worked it out, and therefore the MC should have had that option, too. You even agreed with me that if it was obvious then of course it would be a bad idea to go. The problem is, it was apparently a lot more obscure than I thought. You correctly anticipated that few people would even notice the clues, much less put them together; I thought there would be more than just Devian and myself.
Again though, for those few people who DID work it out, an option to express misgivings might be a good idea.
"Hey, Maria, I really don't think this is a good idea. Maybe we should listen to Hana?" and a little conversational back and forth between the MC and Maria where the MC ultimately realises she's going to go, with or without him, and the MC goes to the hospital with her in an effort to at least try and watch out for her, even knowing it's a terrible idea. Really, just some in-gme acknowledgment that it is a bad idea, even if you can't spell out WHY it's a bad idea.
I'm not saying there should be an option to stop her. I'm saying there should have been an option to TRY and talk her out of it, even though it'd be doomed to failure to keep the story on track.
If the player knows that her going is a terrible idea, it feels horribly passive to just sit there and just go along with her plan without even ATTEMPTING to change her mind. I undersatnd why those options can't be as blunt as "you're a half-elf, let's not give your blood to the government", but I'd still have liked to feel like the MC (my avatar in this world) had tried to do what I (the player) know is best, even though the MC's reasons would have had to be different than my own.
Would I LIKE an option where you discuss her being a half-elf, and that's why she shouldn't go? Yes, I would, but I know why it's not there; I thought the clues were pretty obvious, but this discussion has proven that they were not. Hence, such an option would have confused a lot of people. I legitimately didn't realise how few people put it together.
Go me.
I really thought you intended everyone to put two and two together; Hell, I even thought Maria was subtly dropping hints a few times, and only realised that wasn't the case when she happily walked into the lion's den.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not upset. I'm expressing a difference of opinion, one that was caused because I thought the majority of people would have worked it out, and therefore the MC should have had that option, too. You even agreed with me that if it was obvious then of course it would be a bad idea to go. The problem is, it was apparently a lot more obscure than I thought. You correctly anticipated that few people would even notice the clues, much less put them together; I thought there would be more than just Devian and myself.
Again though, for those few people who DID work it out, an option to express misgivings might be a good idea.
"Hey, Maria, I really don't think this is a good idea. Maybe we should listen to Hana?" and a little conversational back and forth between the MC and Maria where the MC ultimately realises she's going to go, with or without him, and the MC goes to the hospital with her in an effort to at least try and watch out for her, even knowing it's a terrible idea. Really, just some in-gme acknowledgment that it is a bad idea, even if you can't spell out WHY it's a bad idea.
Outsiders looking in who have "unlimited time" compared to "game reality" can often gain perspective that should they be in that same would never have reached.
A more common term/phrase for such is "backseat driver."
I thought there would be more than just Devian and myself.
Again though, for those few people who DID work it out, an option to express misgivings might be a good idea.
There are possibly more. You are discounting that many are willing to enjoy what is put before them and remain quiet and see if they were right.
Those of us that actively participate on forums are a vocal minority. In no way are we in any shape a majority.
Me... I figured it was bad and that she'd get "bad" results. Why? How else do you create drama in a VN so obviously? I'm an engineer so I often have to work against Murphy's Law. So certain situations, like this one, trigger my "Murphy Sense," to para-steal from Spiderman.
Don't get me wrong, I would have enjoyed being wrong and seeing her happy.
There are possibly more. You are discounting that many are willing to enjoy what is put before them and remain quiet and see if they were right.
Those of us that actively participate on forums are a vocal minority. In no way are we in any shape a majority.
Me... I figured it was bad and that she'd get "bad" results. Why? How else do you create drama in a VN so obviously? I'm an engineer so I often have to work against Murphy's Law. So certain situations, like this one, trigger my "Murphy Sense," to para-steal from Spiderman.
Don't get me wrong, I would have enjoyed being wrong and seeing her happy.
I like your objective point of view! But Murphy's law isn't always true for Harem Hotel. Good things will happen, and I think that having a story where bad things are a clear possibility to happen allows for the good things to feel great when they do. It's my goal to make the wins feel as good as the losses felt bad.
Sort of like how one of the main characters had their heads chopped off very early in Game of Thrones. This opened your mind up to the idea that "No one is safe". When someone gets a win, it feels more like they earned it, more like they could have actually died. But the writer knew what was going to happen.
I don't literally think there's just two of us. It was a hyperbolic expression meant to highlight that fewer people noticed than I'd expected.
Runey says that most people never put the clues together (as was his intent), and that he thinks the clues are "very hard to find". I've no reason to disbelieve him. I've also no reason to suspect that his sample size skews wildly to the "didn't work it out" crowd; it's more likely that when he says most people didn't work out she was a half-elf ahead of time, that he's right, and that I was wrong to assume they would.
But maybe you're right. Maybe the majority of people DID work it out; in that case, there probably SHOULD be a "don't go, you're clearly a half-elf" option.
I honestly figured it was the majority of people.
Hence, to be told "let's go get my blood tested, I'm sure nothing horrible can come of that" and not have an option to say "no, Maria honey, that's a terrible idea." was aggravating. I'd have liked to try and talk her out of it, even though the event would still require her to go to the hospital, because there are no branching paths to this VN. But at least I'd have felt less passive about letting her walk to the slaughter.
Having said that, I know why there couldn't be an option to say "no, Maria honey, that's a terrible idea, because you're clearly a half-elf", because for some people that option would have come out of left-field.
Actually, her eyes weren't how I knew she was a half-elf at all; elven eye colours are too common to even be tertiary evidence.
And yet, I did know, for literally years before "the reveal". If I could pick up on the other clues and work it out, I figured so could the MC.
Probably not. I would imagine that the genetic testing would be very specific, as I would imagine that quite a sizeable portion of the population might have elf DNA. So they probably look for certain genetic markers in a similar manner to those ancestry/ethnicity dna testers. It might even be something like specific elf markers in the blood.
Lets just say that in our world, someone does a DNA test and finds they've, I don't know, 12% Greek DNA. That means that you are going back 3 generations of genetic material and looking at 8 great grandparents.
In the Harem Hotel universe, there's probably a cut-off point, like if someone has 3% Elf DNA, they're not going to enslave them because 5 generations back, one of their ancestors was an elf (thats 1 person out of 32). And I would imagine that cut-off point is either parents or grandparents.
I do believe that it has been stated that most people in Syl'anar have some level of Elven DNA and that it is really just certain degrees of it that can lead to enslavement. Maria's appearance is not quite different enough to be a good indicator, so that test would be the only sure way of knowing where she is on the Elf DNA spectrum. She just so happened to fall within the enslavement eligible portion of the spectrum. This is also why other girls at the hotel haven't been enslaved, Ashley in particular comes to mind since she falls outside the range Maria is in yet actually has the closer appearance to an enslavement eligible elf given her fully Dark Elf eyes.
The only clue about elf heritage is her eyes, and Runey, the games creator, explained that the feature of the eyes can stick around a long time.
In otherwords, many generations, as also pointed out by the fact that Ashley is less than half elf. In other posts Runey also states that elf colored eyes are not uncommon amongst the citizens,.
That means that eye color means nothing, and is not a way to spot elves, only someone, who at some point in their ancestory has had an elf ancestor.
Arguing with the creator of the world that the game takes place in, because you don't like the way they chose to do something, makes very little sense, since the dev has already given their reasons for doing it that way.
Exactly, Ashley has full Dark Elf eyes and she falls outside the enslavement range, but Maria's eyes are not so close and she is in that range. Ashley is the more likely of the two to catch suspicion based on appearance alone and yet she's safe, so the eyes alone cannot be used as an indicator, there has to be more.
There are some other clues, but they're very hard to find. One of them is hidden away in her pinups for one of her outfits. Someone has commented "Are those scars on her ears?"
There are other clues like this, but they're very few and far between. Anyone who was able to piece these together should pat themselves on the back. I don't understand why it would make anyone upset. It really confuses me.
If it was obvious that Maria was a half elf before the reveal, or really suggested at all within the story, then of course it would have been a bad idea to go. But MC isn't even from this continent, all this elf genetic stuff is new to him. But even for someone who has known Maria for a very long time, like Ashley or Hana, there was no way to ever know she was a half elf. Especially not for MC to know. You would have to piece some really abstract hints together.
But the scars aren't that big a threat, certainly not big enough to warrant not going through the test as planned. Hell, I have plenty of scars and, even being the person who has them, sometimes I have to feel around to know where they are. Scars aren't always so visible that they stand out and even then, hers are in a very easily hidden place. That's probably how she's survived as long as she has without being discovered if I had to guess, even if she was unaware of the threat of them being discovered. There's also plenty of ways to explain the scars away from identifying her as an Elf.
I stand corrected on that, then.
I just can't figure out why people are arguing with you about whats in the game, and how it was done.
You are the games creator. Only you know what is coming, and why things had to be done in a certain way to get there.
I admit, I was also angry about what happened to Maria, but I figured it would be fixed at some point in the future, and kept playing.
Indeed, I am still hoping for some terrible fate to befall the bitch nurse at the hospital and Cornwall as karma. I also figure it will be resolved at some point and I await that day with bated breath.
If I had to guess why people are arguing, maybe it's how they are handling the emotional response. sort of like how I handled it with the whole string about wanting to get back at them with something equivalent to the effect they could have had on Maria. Everyone handles strong emotional responses differently to at least some degree, sometimes in a vastly different way than they normally would, like with my response.
That is part of it, but I also have a knack for that kind of thing. I am almost never surprised by things like that in stories. Things that seem obvious to me, tend to go over most people's heads, should see some of the talks in some other threads, like the spy in Headmaster. People were saying I was reading way too much into it, and low and behold, a few updates later... XD
In other words, you're extremely observant. That's actually a pretty good trait to have. Unfortunately, I cannot say the same for myself on this one, which is likely a major factor in why I reacted so strongly when I did.
I'm not saying there should be an option to stop her. I'm saying there should have been an option to TRY and talk her out of it, even though it'd be doomed to failure to keep the story on track.
If the player knows that her going is a terrible idea, it feels horribly passive to just sit there and just go along with her plan without even ATTEMPTING to change her mind. I understand why those options can't be as blunt as "you're a half-elf, let's not give your blood to the government", but I'd still have liked to feel like the MC (my avatar in this world) had tried to do what I (the player) know is best, even though the MC's reasons would have had to be different than my own.
Would I LIKE an option where you discuss her being a half-elf, and that's why she shouldn't go? Yes, I would, but I know why it's not there; I thought the clues were pretty obvious, but this discussion has proven that they were not. Hence, such an option would have confused a lot of people. I legitimately didn't realise how few people put it together.
Go me.
I really thought you intended everyone to put two and two together; Hell, I even thought Maria was subtly dropping hints a few times, and only realised that wasn't the case when she happily walked into the lion's den.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not upset. I'm expressing a difference of opinion, one that was caused because I thought the majority of people would have worked it out, and therefore the MC should have had that option, too. You even agreed with me that if it was obvious then of course it would be a bad idea to go. The problem is, it was apparently a lot more obscure than I thought. You correctly anticipated that few people would even notice the clues, much less put them together; I thought there would be more than just Devian and myself.
Again though, for those few people who DID work it out, an option to express misgivings might be a good idea.
"Hey, Maria, I really don't think this is a good idea. Maybe we should listen to Hana?" and a little conversational back and forth between the MC and Maria where the MC ultimately realises she's going to go, with or without him, and the MC goes to the hospital with her in an effort to at least try and watch out for her, even knowing it's a terrible idea. Really, just some in-gme acknowledgment that it is a bad idea, even if you can't spell out WHY it's a bad idea.
Yeah, I'm one of the many who the clues went right over our heads. It definitely wasn't so obvious as you might have thought. Those among us who found the clues should definitely pat themselves on the back, that's some pretty good perception going on there, but so should Runey for doing such an insanely good job at hiding these things practically in plain sight.
Then there's the thing with Hana, when she said the things about not going, I didn't think she meant because of Maria potentially being eligible for enslavement, I thought it was more about what Maria might find out about who her parents were as people. There are some truly terrible people in the world who are parents even if only in the biological sense of the word and that can have terrible effects on offspring who didn't know about how terrible their parents were once they find out.
There are possibly more. You are discounting that many are willing to enjoy what is put before them and remain quiet and see if they were right.
Those of us that actively participate on forums are a vocal minority. In no way are we in any shape a majority.
Me... I figured it was bad and that she'd get "bad" results. Why? How else do you create drama in a VN so obviously? I'm an engineer so I often have to work against Murphy's Law. So certain situations, like this one, trigger my "Murphy Sense," to para-steal from Spiderman.
Don't get me wrong, I would have enjoyed being wrong and seeing her happy.
I tend to be one of these even if I do figure something out, though sometimes, especially with this game and "Lessons in Love," I like to make my theories known.
I'm not saying there should be an option to stop her. I'm saying there should have been an option to TRY and talk her out of it, even though it'd be doomed to failure to keep the story on track.
While I am generally a fan of options, the problem with this is that... A) she would have been left in limbo, some times not knowing can be torture, and Hana was not willing to introduce her doctor. B) It would have been much less impactful.
In other words, you're extremely observant. That's actually a pretty good trait to have. Unfortunately, I cannot say the same for myself on this one, which is likely a major factor in why I reacted so strongly when I did.
A big part of it, this also needs to be combined with the ability to extrapolate from that data, the possible options of where that would logically lead, and pick the most likely ones. It's a skill most writers should have. On the other hand, it can also be the cause of severe writers block, as you think of too many ideas, and can't choose which ones to go with! XD
While I am generally a fan of options, the problem with this is that... A) she would have been left in limbo, some times not knowing can be torture, and Hana was not willing to introduce her doctor. B) It would have been much less impactful.
A) Why do you think she'd be left in limbo? The event would have ended the exact same way. The only difference would have been a few extra lines of dialogue between the MC and Maria where he tries and fails to talk her out of it, before finally resigning himself to going to try and watch over her.
B) I'd agree the impact would be lessened if the conversation included the MC saying "Maria, you're a half-elf", but I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting "Maybe we should listen to Hana" or "I thinks this is a terrible idea, Maria" or something equally vague. I don't think an option for people to express disagreement with her plan lessens the impact of her being forcefully taken from the MC at all. YMMV, of course.
A) Why do you think she'd be left in limbo? The event would have ended the exact same way. The only difference would have been a few extra lines of dialogue between the MC and Maria where he tries and fails to talk her out of it, before finally resigning himself to going to try and watch over her.
B) I'd agree the impact would be lessened if the conversation included the MC saying "Maria, you're a half-elf", but I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting "Maybe we should listen to Hana" or "I thinks this is a terrible idea, Maria" or something equally vague. I don't think an option for people to express disagreement with her plan lessens the impact of her being forcefully taken from the MC at all. YMMV, of course.
A) Why do you think she'd be left in limbo? The event would have ended the exact same way. The only difference would have been a few extra lines of dialogue between the MC and Maria where he tries and fails to talk her out of it, before finally resigning himself to going to try and watch over her.
B) I'd agree the impact would be lessened if the conversation included the MC saying "Maria, you're a half-elf", but I'm not suggesting that. I'm suggesting "Maybe we should listen to Hana" or "I thinks this is a terrible idea, Maria" or something equally vague. I don't think an option for people to express disagreement with her plan lessens the impact of her being forcefully taken from the MC at all. YMMV, of course.
Okay, yeah, having an option just to say that is not bad, then go with her anyway to show your support. That is a lot different from where this conversation started, him telling her no multiple times, and not going at all.
Would give you a again, but I ran out hours ago...
A big part of it, this also needs to be combined with the ability to extrapolate from that data, the possible options of where that would logically lead, and pick the most likely ones. It's a skill most writers should have. On the other hand, it can also be the cause of severe writers block, as you think of too many ideas, and can't choose which ones to go with! XD
It's also a useful skill for medical professionals, and legal professionals.
It can also make you difficult to get along with, for a variety of reasons. I've been banned from theory-crafting about movies, books, and TV shows by everyone I know, for example.
Yes, it does. And even with an option to tell her you think it's a terrible idea, you'd still be going with her. In point of fact, you'd be showing that you'll stand by her side even when you don't agree with her, that you'll support her through thick and thin.
While I am generally a fan of options, the problem with this is that... A) she would have been left in limbo, some times not knowing can be torture, and Hana was not willing to introduce her doctor. B) It would have been much less impactful.
A big part of it, this also needs to be combined with the ability to extrapolate from that data, the possible options of where that would logically lead, and pick the most likely ones. It's a skill most writers should have. On the other hand, it can also be the cause of severe writers block, as you think of too many ideas, and can't choose which ones to go with! XD
Yep, I've been there. I'll often get into a flow from the beginning that won't stop for several hours straight, but sometimes the flow of ideas is faster than my ability to put them on paper and that ends up in a sort of idea traffic jam for me. I end up falling to my occasionally highly indecisive nature.
It's also a useful skill for medical professionals, and legal professionals.
It can also make you difficult to get along with, for a variety of reasons. I've been banned from theory-crafting about movies, books, and TV shows by everyone I know, for example.
Okay, yeah, having an option just to say that is not bad, then go with her anyway to show your support. That is a lot different from where this conversation started, him telling her no multiple times, and not going at all.
Yes, someone else said to not go with her, but that wasn't me. My suggestion has only ever been to have an option where you express disagreement with her plan, there's a little bit of back-and-forth, ultimately the MC realises she's going with or without him, and he goes with her despite his misgivings. The event ends the same way, but the player can feel that they at least got to try and make her see sense.
Nah, it was a fair complaint. I never realised how aggravating it was for them to, for example, watch a TV series with me, only for me to predict how it'll end in episode 2, and then be proven right at the end of the season. It was robbing them of the twist, and robbing them of the ability to put the clues together themselves. They explained why it was annoying, I saw that their logical was valid, and I've endeavoured ever since to not ruin things for them.
It's why I never brought up Maria being a half-elf here in the public forum, and only mentioned it to Runey in a DM.
It's also a useful skill for medical professionals, and legal professionals.
It can also make you difficult to get along with, for a variety of reasons. I've been banned from theory-crafting about movies, books, and TV shows by everyone I know, for example.
Funny, for me, it is what got me onto several game teams... lol
It is all a matter of how you apply it, I guess. XD
People do hate when you manage to spoil the plot, but it is useful when DMing a game, or any number of activities.
Yep, I've been there. I'll often get into a flow from the beginning that won't stop for several hours straight, but sometimes the flow of ideas is faster than my ability to put them on paper and that ends up in a sort of idea traffic jam for me. I end up falling to my occasionally highly indecisive nature.
Yes, someone else said to not go with her, but that wasn't me. My suggestion has only ever been to have an option where you express disagreement with her plan, there's a little bit of back-and-forth, ultimately the MC realises she's going with or without him, and he goes with her despite his misgivings. The event ends the same way, but the player can feel that they at least got to try and make her see sense.
Yeah, I was pretty sure that was someone else who said that, but it's been a long day... XD
Yeah, I agree, that would have worked just fine, even if it included a -1 love point for not fully supporting her idea, or not getting one you would have otherwise.
again, but I ran out hours ago...
