VN Ren'Py Harem Hotel [v0.18.2] [Runey]

[Nakasan]

Start from the beginning I'm afraid

end of game for me then

 

[Corvus Belli]

Okay, you are clearly not reading what I said. When I said "if you are like me",

I've read what you're saying. What you said was " Look at exhibitionism stat... that tells you how many you have done, so unless you are like me, and repeat the hell out of it, in which case you will have them all memorized, and only do them once, this will tell you."
I explained to you that the exhibitionism stat doesn't actually tell you how many scenes you've seen; it tells you how many exhibitionism points you've earned. It's entirely possible someone played Event 1, then played Event 1 again three or four times (because they liked it), then Event 2, then didn't play again for three months for any one fo half-a-hundred reasons. If that person checks how many Exhibitionist Points they have, it'll say 5 or 6, but that doesn't mean they've played/seen every event, does it? And if that person would like to know, quickly and efficiently, which scenes they've not seen yet, then the option in the mod (the one that Wisblade mentioned) was a better system than the suggestion "go check each girl, one by one".

I also said "and repeat the the events". You either do them once and move on, easy to forget, or you are like me, and repeat them, there are not a lot of variations there...

And if someone repeated an event, then their exhibitionism stat doesn't match how many scenes they've seen, does it? An exhibitionism of "4" does not necessarily mean they've seen every scene, does it?

I also explained what I meant by 'complicated',

Yes, and you're misusing the word. Nothing is "complicated", it's just something you don't understand. Note the difference between the two.

why do you care about this useless information? If you can't even read the responses, I am done discussing this.

I never once said I cared about the information. But let me ask you a question; you've expressed a very clear preference for the "Headpat" counter, which is utterly useless information, so why do you care about that useless information? Can you consider that perhaps, just perhaps, some people might like having information that other people consider utterly pointless?

Then make a mod yourself, if you want it so badly.

I don't want it. Never said I did. I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion, since I've never once expressed that desire. It's almost like you're not reading what I've written, which is ironic.
I'm telling you that other people want it, because they expressed that preference, and then you either misunderstood, or intentionally misrepresented, their comments.

 

[Wisblade]

Time as in a matter of minutes, it doesn't take that long. Nothing is harder to collect, it is all there and ready to be read at the player's request, AKA clicking the correct option to display the desired piece of information. I'm aware of that line about easy for developer vs easy for user, but I am on the user side of that line and it is just as easy for me as it is for Runey.

Again, YOU DIDN'T FULLY READ WHAT I WROTE. As I said, go check ALL locations for ALL girls to see if there is a new scene (or if you didn't missed one), which is something that I need to do on EACH update TWICE (begin & end of new content). It's not "a matter of minutes", you're way too focused on the girl's doors. Corvus Belli explained it too, maybe his english is easier to understand for you? I can accept criticism about my writing style, but when you reply on elements that I clearly put as unimportant/minor and forget the main thing, it's quite tiring and hopeless, you know...

I see, it isn't that I didn't get the analogy, more like I didn't even realize it was supposed to be an analogy, my fault on that. I am a developer myself, just not for public use and not on this game.

When I say that you read only what you want to read to keep your conceptions unchanged... I'll quote myself, then:

What I try to explain you, and I hope you'll understand the analogy:

And you didn't realized it was an analogy, really? Seriously, dude, please do a little effort...

Yes, it is fine as is. If you're looking for something that falls into the three clicks rule, sandbox VN is not the genre you want. I DID try the mod with older versions, in fact, I just came off of a modded 0.12.4 and saw no benefit of adapting anything the mod added to the core game systems. I'm not telling you I think it's useless, I'm telling you that it technically IS useless. It is fun to mess around with for things like quickly swapping the sanctuary routes without playing the game over from the start, but it provides nothing that the game doesn't provide already except MAYBE restoring the content for one removed character and that in itself does not qualify as useful.

Again, you're focused on the cheats, the added content and the "walkthrough" - which isn't one, since there is no real choices / problems apart that you shouldn't spank girls too much - which is quite obvious for anybody with a working brain.

Restored content was fun, but not needed. Cheats are usefull, but apart the Sanctuary route (ONE ONLY swap per update, at the end, to see the Slave content), nothing that

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- or UnRen - can't help with. Walkthrough was so minimalistic that it could have been missing, it wouldn't had made a single difference. Everything valuable was purely in the UI.
Stop telling me that "sandbox VN aren't for you", when it's an UI design question and not a gameplay question - neither a scenario, story, or anything else: ONLY UI.

Clearly, in particular in 0.12.4 when you didn't even have the day change icons, it was MORE than useful - what is currently added to day change screen IS what I want, so it isn't an "useless idea", but it SHOULD be present directly in the "Info" panel instead of only at day change screen - and without having to hover anything, there is enough space on a 1080p screen to display that! If you didn't see anything useful, then you didn't tried the mod - probably only looking on the main panel every now and then while playing like you're used to - the important word is "USED TO", and that doesn't mean "PERFECT". You probably didn't used the side girls panel, or the events panel - or you didn't want to see how it could be used for getting all content and be SURE that you got all content.

Technically, a graphical UI (or operating system) is useless... Why are you wanting one, instead of a text interface?
Technically, a mouse is useless... Why are you using one, instead of using keyboard and an awful amount of shortcuts?
Technically, a real text editor is useless... Why are you using one, since you have VI/Notepad? (Troll bait: why using even VI, when you can have "cat+grep+sed+more"? )
Technically, a fast internet connection is useless... Why are you wanting one, when only having a connection is really important?
The answer is always "it's easier and more comfortable, of course!". And that's exactly what I'm saying: NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS. If an UI can be made prettier, easier, more complete, save time, etc. then it's obviously perfectible. I also don't propose an impossible thing (I don't ask for 360° animations for girls, for example, or for a fully voiced game, or for a shitload of fetish to implement with each girl), I propose something that was proven as possible, since it was already DONE, and even more important, something that would have NO IMPACT on game or story - that's definitively not a "fap accelerator", an insane gallery or similar "fast content mod", but clearly a tool for people who want to explore the WHOLE GAME.
Forcing people to go everywhere during half an hour isn't a good way to add lifetime to a game. It's as pointless as adding a 30 seconds cooldown between each click.

BTW, the three-clicks rules can be (and in fact IS) implemented in several sandbox games - and not only sandbox games, BTW... Most of them implement full location jumplists, full protagonists information panels, etc. and not partial ones. And yes, some are worse than anything I could have said here. Why absolutely want to level down, instead of level up?

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[Deleted member 4298851]

end of game for me then

It's not hard at all to go through a full game run in this game using the TAB button or CTRL, but whatever.

 

[testington]

end of game for me then

It doesnt have to be the end. You just have to edit a little file.
Just apply these from this post
https://f95zone.to/threads/harem-ho...heat-mod-v0-13-2-maim-lain.19954/post-7124406

Remember to include the spaces

 

[alex2011]

Again, YOU DIDN'T FULLY READ WHAT I WROTE. As I said, go check ALL locations for ALL girls to see if there is a new scene (or if you didn't missed one), which is something that I need to do on EACH update TWICE (begin & end of new content). It's not "a matter of minutes", you're way too focused on the girl's doors. Corvus Belli explained it too, maybe his english is easier to understand for you? I can accept criticism about my writing style, but when you reply on elements that I clearly put as unimportant/minor and forget the main thing, it's quite tiring and hopeless, you know...

When I say that you read only what you want to read to keep your conceptions unchanged... I'll quote myself, then:

And you didn't realized it was an analogy, really? Seriously, dude, please do a little effort...

Again, you're focused on the cheats, the added content and the "walkthrough" - which isn't one, since there is no real choices / problems apart that you shouldn't spank girls too much - which is quite obvious for anybody with a working brain.

Restored content was fun, but not needed. Cheats are usefull, but apart the Sanctuary route (ONE ONLY swap per update, at the end, to see the Slave content), nothing that

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- or UnRen - can't help with. Walkthrough was so minimalistic that it could have been missing, it wouldn't had made a single difference. Everything valuable was purely in the UI.
Stop telling me that "sandbox VN aren't for you", when it's an UI design question and not a gameplay question - neither a scenario, story, or anything else: ONLY UI.

Clearly, in particular in 0.12.4 when you didn't even have the day change icons, it was MORE than useful - what is currently added to day change screen IS what I want, so it isn't an "useless idea", but it SHOULD be present directly in the "Info" panel instead of only at day change screen - and without having to hover anything, there is enough space on a 1080p screen to display that! If you didn't see anything useful, then you didn't tried the mod - probably only looking on the main panel every now and then while playing like you're used to - the important word is "USED TO", and that doesn't mean "PERFECT". You probably didn't used the side girls panel, or the events panel - or you didn't want to see how it could be used for getting all content and be SURE that you got all content.

Technically, a graphical UI (or operating system) is useless... Why are you wanting one, instead of a text interface?
Technically, a mouse is useless... Why are you using one, instead of using keyboard and an awful amount of shortcuts?
Technically, a real text editor is useless... Why are you using one, since you have VI/Notepad? (Troll bait: why using even VI, when you can have "cat+grep+sed+more"? )
Technically, a fast internet connection is useless... Why are you wanting one, when only having a connection is really important?
The answer is always "it's easier and more comfortable, of course!". And that's exactly what I'm saying: NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS. If an UI can be made prettier, easier, more complete, save time, etc. then it's obviously perfectible. I also don't propose an impossible thing (I don't ask for 360° animations for girls, for example, or for a fully voiced game, or for a shitload of fetish to implement with each girl), I propose something that was proven as possible, since it was already DONE, and even more important, something that would have NO IMPACT on game or story - that's definitively not a "fap accelerator", an insane gallery or similar "fast content mod", but clearly a tool for people who want to explore the WHOLE GAME.
Forcing people to go everywhere during half an hour isn't a good way to add lifetime to a game. It's as pointless as adding a 30 seconds cooldown between each click.

BTW, the three-clicks rules can be (and in fact IS) implemented in several sandbox games - and not only sandbox games, BTW... Most of them implement full location jumplists, full protagonists information panels, etc. and not partial ones. And yes, some are worse than anything I could have said here. Why absolutely want to level down, instead of level up?

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I thought you were done and I was prepared to leave it as it was, but I guess I was mistaken.

I read everything you wrote. As of 0.14, it isn't even necessary to check locations for main girls, they have an icon on the transition screen between days that now even has a number to indicate how many days are left before an event is ready, and the side girls are trivial at best. It is a matter of minutes, the only exception is when there is an event ready, in which case you add in the time it takes to go through the event, which I did not count because it is not time spent trying to find an event. I have no problems with your English or Corvus's English, I simply see no point in doing as you say because the information is already in the game.

I'm focused on the cheats because those are the only useful part of the mod that doesn't already exist in the game, with potential exception to restoring content that was stripped from the game, and even some of the cheats are in the game if you know the codes. You're right, any restored content it had was fun, but entirely unnecessary, as is every other part of the mod. You said it yourself Unren and save editors do what the mod can. The UI was nice, but also unnecessary. The thing about sandbox VNs is that they typically share a similar UI concept, not always, but usually. If you don't like the UI in Harem Hotel, that means you also won't like many other sandbox VNs. Even in 0.12.4, the only thing I ever used the mod for was to quick swap sanctuary routes or do things the game couldn't. The day change info is fine where it is, which is somewhere no player will miss because they have to go through it. It isn't about space, that was never a concern in my argument against the idea, it is about not needing to move the information. It is more unnecessary work for Runey, which takes some time away from content development. I DID try the mod, but I found nothing useful in it except some of the cheats. To be sure I have all the content, all I have to do is look at the in game info panel at the top right of the game's UI.

The UI is comfortable as it is, from my USER point of view. There's really no time to save, the only way to play the game in less time than it already takes is to skip all text and to cheat the stats all the way up so that you are entirely maxed out, including friendship, which is known to break saves if cheated. Then again, that's not actually playing, that's skipping the game for whatever you have left after, a fap accelerator if you will. Everything is perfectible, nothing made by human hands is perfect nor will it ever be because our imperfection is part of being human. I didn't say it was impossible, just that it is an unnecessary waste of valuable development time.

There is nothing forcing anyone to go everywhere. Look at the bottom right on the new day screen, then go to the room of the girl of your choice with a fully colored icon on the new day screen, simple.

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[Wisblade]

I thought you were done and I was prepared to leave it as it was, but I guess I was mistaken.

And since you don't even WANT to see things from the other side, there is no need to continue - seriously, dude, I would never thought that you were so stubborn and narrow-minded, I simply can't explain it better since already THREE people detailled the problem and even gave examples...

No, you didn't tried the mod. At all. You used only the cheats, which is precisely something I was explaining as irrelevant regarding the main advantage it provides. I'm showing you a GPS, and you're telling me that you're fine with a paper map, a compass and a sextant and - worse - than GPS is useless and don't save time... What's next, we'll go back to punch cards for programming computers?

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[freedom.call]

And since you don't even WANT to see things from the other side, there is no need to continue - seriously, dude, I would never thought that you were so stubborn and narrow-minded, I simply can't explain it better since already THREE people detailled the problem and even gave examples...

Come on man, there is no 'other side', only different opinions. The game is the way Runey wants it to be, he's reading our posts and maybe picks up a few things here and there he's happy to include/change. I don't think going on and on about it helps.

 

[Wisblade]

Come on man, there is no 'other side', only different opinions.

Probably a gallicism or cultural difference, here.

"Other side" in a conversation isn't a polarized expression in French. It's not like two sides/opponents of a war or a fight. It means "looking from the other side of the window" - i.e. being able to see the problem with someone's else point of view, without being forced to accept it nor to be convinced, but simply LISTENING to other's arguments from THEIR point of view.

 

[alex2011]

And since you don't even WANT to see things from the other side, there is no need to continue - seriously, dude, I would never thought that you were so stubborn and narrow-minded, I simply can't explain it better since already THREE people detailled the problem and even gave examples...

No, you didn't tried the mod. At all. You used only the cheats, which is precisely something I was explaining as irrelevant regarding the main advantage it provides. I'm showing you a GPS, and you're telling me that you're fine with a paper map, a compass and a sextant and - worse - than GPS is useless and don't save time... What's next, we'll go back to punch cards for programming computers?

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Oh, I see things from the other side because I'm on that side of development. The only one on the other side of development for this game is Runey. No matter how I look at it, as a user or a developer, it makes no sense to make the changes because things are fine as they are and the only thing changing the UI does is take away from development time. I also see no need to continue, but here we are, continuing.

Yes, I did try the mod, the cheats ARE the mod, that's part of its function. Using only part of the mod is not the same thing as not using the mod. The cheats ARE the main advantage it provides, the rest the game already provides and isn't needed in the mod. As for the GPS metaphor, that was a big mistake, I actually am fine with a paper map since I've had a GPS tell me incorrect information that my map reading skills would not, like saying my destination is on the side of a highway or directing me in literal circles.

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Come on man, there is no 'other side', only different opinions. The game is the way Runey wants it to be, he's reading our posts and maybe picks up a few things here and there he's happy to include/change. I don't think going on and on about it helps.

That's right, though I do have to side with Wisblade on the sides thing, there kind of are two sides to development in a way, the player/user and the developer. We are on the player/user side while Runey is on the developer side. However, in this case, what he said about things being easier for the developer makes them harder for the player and the reverse is not correct in this case for most of us and only a few seem to be under the impression that the UI needs to be changed.

 

[J_Doe]

I would argue that the popularity of mods like Lain's point to a general flaw - why not just have a patreon only version with all of the mod functions? People pay for cheated versions of games like this all the time.

 

[ZunMadun]

As for the GPS metaphor, that was a big mistake, I actually am fine with a paper map since I've had a GPS tell me incorrect information that my map reading skills would not, like saying my destination is on the side of a highway or directing me in literal circles.

Why use a map? Why not climb a mountain and use that for navigation it provides the same thing.
Why use a plane to visit other countries? You have arms and legs so use them to go there instead.
Why use phones when going to people and talking is already a thing in the world.

People are more lazy and they want more information quicker than before. That's why we now have waypoints, maps and quicktravel in games when previously games just told us vague directions to objectives. People want to quickly jump in games that they played and get the information they need to proceed with the game without having to go back to that 1 npc that gave you directions.
You might say that oh you can just go to the doors they will give you whatever information you need but you have to understand that not all play the same way or remember how things work. How many games from here do you play? How accurately do you remember what you have done and what you haven't done in all of those games? Especially since there are games that have very similar plots, characters and locations. It would be nice to load your save and quickly be able to tell what you haven't done and other information.

Information can be added to the stats screen or whatever it is. A simple "Beach events completed" or something. It won't take 50h of development time to add them there.

 

[freedom.call]

That's right, though I do have to side with Wisblade on the sides thing, there kind of are two sides to development in a way, the player/user and the developer.

That's alright, I was thinking about user vs user having different opinions. Not sides. User vs Runey......yeah that's never ending well.

 

[c3p0]

The whole mod disccussion is becoming entirely tiresome, at least for me. The mod adds cheats and, according to the ones that use it, a better UI with all *interesting* data concentrated in one place. The GPS and other debate is ridiculous in the first part and adds nothing to this at all - my opinion. We could go back in time and don't play games on a highly advance computer system that we have downloaded over very fast network across the world. Altough then, we woudn't have this discussion in the first place.

As I understand all the information that is *better* presented in the mod are additional content not needed for the story. I haven't seen in the games I played that they have a build in help - hand holding help - for this type of content.

Regardless it comes down to a few points:

• Does Main Lain future develop her mod of Harem Hotel or not?
• Does Runey implement the things the ones that want this into his game or not?
• Does anyone other than Main Lain make a mod that does the same as Main Lain's mod for this?

To debate how many have use Main Lain's mod for this or not is something with no gain. Only if a great majority on the zone, who have played a recent version of Harem Hotel, would answer in a poll, it would make sense, otherwise, independent of how many would voice their opinion, it would be a very small minority of this board. (Even 40'000 users are only less than 1% of the users here.)

 

[Deleted member 4298851]

View attachment 1556289
The whole mod disccussion is becoming entirely tiresome, at least for me. The mod adds cheats and, according to the ones that use it, a better UI with all *interesting* data concentrated in one place. The GPS and other debate is ridiculous in the first part and adds nothing to this at all - my opinion. We could go back in time and don't play games on a highly advance computer system that we have downloaded over very fast network across the world. Altough then, we woudn't have this discussion in the first place.

As I understand all the information that is *better* presented in the mod are additional content not needed for the story. I haven't seen in the games I played that they have a build in help - hand holding help - for this type of content.

Regardless it comes down to a few points:

• Does Main Lain future develop her mod of Harem Hotel or not?
• Does Runey implement the things the ones that want this into his game or not?
• Does anyone other than Main Lain make a mod that does the same as Main Lain's mod for this?

To debate how many have use Main Lain's mod for this or not is something with no gain. Only if a great majority on the zone, who have played a recent version of Harem Hotel, would answer in a poll, it would make sense, otherwise, independent of how many would voice their opinion, it would be a very small minority of this board. (Even 40'000 users are only less than 1% of the users here.)

It most certainly is. I've avoided this whole thread for a few days now. Just agree to disagree, and move on. Let's go back to the game, not worry about the mod, and let's save the debate, or better yet, not to do it anymore. Quit beating the damn dead horse already.

 

[alex2011]

Why use a map? Why not climb a mountain and use that for navigation it provides the same thing.
Why use a plane to visit other countries? You have arms and legs so use them to go there instead.
Why use phones when going to people and talking is already a thing in the world.

People are more lazy and they want more information quicker than before. That's why we now have waypoints, maps and quicktravel in games when previously games just told us vague directions to objectives. People want to quickly jump in games that they played and get the information they need to proceed with the game without having to go back to that 1 npc that gave you directions.
You might say that oh you can just go to the doors they will give you whatever information you need but you have to understand that not all play the same way or remember how things work. How many games from here do you play? How accurately do you remember what you have done and what you haven't done in all of those games? Especially since there are games that have very similar plots, characters and locations. It would be nice to load your save and quickly be able to tell what you haven't done and other information.

Information can be added to the stats screen or whatever it is. A simple "Beach events completed" or something. It won't take 50h of development time to add them there.

Climbing a mountain, you can only gauge as far as you can see, but maps hold much more information at a much greater distance the human eyesight is capable of. Arms and legs can only get you so far, a plane or boat is required for large bodies of water. Talking can only be done in person, which is not possible between state, country, or continent sized distances.

Not Runey's problem if they are lazy, if they want something easier, they can go to a developer willing to cater to that. Again, not Runey's problem if people don't remember how to play because of a time gap or any other reason. How accurately I remember doesn't really matter as anything I feel is significant gets written down, literally as in physical pen and paper. This applies to every game I play. As for how many I play from here, literally over a hundred, however, not all of them are like this game, most are quick fap type games that have little to no quality story or any real gameplay loop to speak of, but some are like Harem Hotel, VNs and RPGs that have hours of content.

Sure, it CAN be added, but it isn't necessary and would use time better spent on content development.

That's alright, I was thinking about user vs user having different opinions. Not sides. User vs Runey......yeah that's never ending well.

No, no it is not. That's essentially an argument with the game's god.

View attachment 1556289
The whole mod disccussion is becoming entirely tiresome, at least for me. The mod adds cheats and, according to the ones that use it, a better UI with all *interesting* data concentrated in one place. The GPS and other debate is ridiculous in the first part and adds nothing to this at all - my opinion. We could go back in time and don't play games on a highly advance computer system that we have downloaded over very fast network across the world. Altough then, we woudn't have this discussion in the first place.

As I understand all the information that is *better* presented in the mod are additional content not needed for the story. I haven't seen in the games I played that they have a build in help - hand holding help - for this type of content.

Regardless it comes down to a few points:

• Does Main Lain future develop her mod of Harem Hotel or not?
• Does Runey implement the things the ones that want this into his game or not?
• Does anyone other than Main Lain make a mod that does the same as Main Lain's mod for this?

To debate how many have use Main Lain's mod for this or not is something with no gain. Only if a great majority on the zone, who have played a recent version of Harem Hotel, would answer in a poll, it would make sense, otherwise, independent of how many would voice their opinion, it would be a very small minority of this board. (Even 40'000 users are only less than 1% of the users here.)

The GPS thing was a metaphor and they were comparing useful items in real life to the mod. We COULD go back to that more primitive time, but then we wouldn't have this amazing game. You're right, very few games hold the player's hand, though that really shouldn't be a thing, my opinion and I'm sticking with it.

Will Maim come back? That's hard to say and I am honestly erring on the side of no. Will Runey implement these things, I'm pretty sure he already said no. Does anyone else make a mod like this? Actually, there are a couple people on F95 that make mods like this, including Maim, but Her mods are usually better and sometimes contain extra content while other mods do not.

It most certainly is. I've avoided this whole thread for a few days now. Just agree to disagree, and move on. Let's go back to the game, not worry about the mod, and let's save the debate, or better yet, not to do it anymore. Quit beating the damn dead horse already.

I've already given a couple hints that I would like the discussion to end on this, including here, so hopefully this is the last.

 

[Deleted member 4298851]

Climbing a mountain, you can only gauge as far as you can see, but maps hold much more information at a much greater distance the human eyesight is capable of. Arms and legs can only get you so far, a plane or boat is required for large bodies of water. Talking can only be done in person, which is not possible between state, country, or continent sized distances.

Not Runey's problem if they are lazy, if they want something easier, they can go to a developer willing to cater to that. Again, not Runey's problem if people don't remember how to play because of a time gap or any other reason. How accurately I remember doesn't really matter as anything I feel is significant gets written down, literally as in physical pen and paper. This applies to every game I play. As for how many I play from here, literally over a hundred, however, not all of them are like this game, most are quick fap type games that have little to no quality story or any real gameplay loop to speak of, but some are like Harem Hotel, VNs and RPGs that have hours of content.

Sure, it CAN be added, but it isn't necessary and would use time better spent on content development.


No, no it is not. That's essentially an argument with the game's god.


The GPS thing was a metaphor and they were comparing useful items in real life to the mod. We COULD go back to that more primitive time, but then we wouldn't have this amazing game. You're right, very few games hold the player's hand, though that really shouldn't be a thing, my opinion and I'm sticking with it.

Will Maim come back? That's hard to say and I am honestly erring on the side of no. Will Runey implement these things, I'm pretty sure he already said no. Does anyone else make a mod like this? Actually, there are a couple people on F95 that make mods like this, including Maim, but Her mods are usually better and sometimes contain extra content while other mods do not.


I've already given a couple hints that I would like the discussion to end on this, including here, so hopefully this is the last.

I hope so. I was even chased away from this thread, and that's not a hard thing to do, but it was enough for me to avoid contact with it while this was going on.

But I agree, with you. No more.

 

[Wisblade]

Using only part of the mod is not the same thing as not using the mod.

While I was saying to you explicitely that the thing was OUTSIDE the cheats... And you give your experience using the only irrelevant thing within the mod.
How many times did you use the cheat to get money? Twice ? How many times did you max your stats? Even more funny, how many times did you change the Sanctuary route, knowing that it resets EACH time the route to the very beginning, i.e. getting the elfs at the door?
Cheats are useful to speed up things a bit - but you may use them 4 or 5 times at most, excepted the "change route" at each update's end.

As for the GPS metaphor, that was a big mistake, I actually am fine with a paper map since I've had a GPS tell me incorrect information that my map reading skills would not, like saying my destination is on the side of a highway or directing me in literal circles.

Irrelevant. Because if a GPS is buggy, it's mostly because of weather - so you won't be able to use a sextant or anything sky-related to find your position, and a compass give only orientation, not position - you'll need a theodolite, a sextant, a precise watch, etc. to get your position. And in no way it could be a reason to throw your GPS, and even less to try to convince other people to throw their own GPS.

And here, what you did is that you used the GPS like a caveman, just to prevent the map from flying away, as a rock, and decrete that it's useless because it didn't really helped you... But, ironically, that the GPS bag was very practical to carry your snacks.

Again: Where in the standard UI is the completion for each event/location, for each girl? You'll have points, sometimes, but they aren't in anything related to the fact you seen ALL these events. Oh, and you have the useless pat count, yes, totally essential thing - you miss dozens of informations, but you have an useless one... Great.

Maim Lain's UI wasn't so bad, since Runey added something similar (but far less complete) from now. What is sad is that it's lost in the day change screen - therefore, you MUST waste a day to see it! - instead of being in the main UI, and that it isn't presented in a single-glance fashion, despite that there is enough screen space to do so and requires a mouse hover to get all informations.
And it's only for main girls, side girls are forgotten, and it doesn't show the missing locations/events progression/completion - again, in a single-glance interface.
So I really can't see what is your argument, unless it is "I wanna fuck myself for free while I play"...

Want an example? "Hero Harem Guild". Take a better look to the UI, count the number of clicks to reach all places - there is even a joke about the "Bed" perk on this subject - and how you can find/progress with a girl - in particular, take a close look to the girl's panel, you'll see ALL of them on ONE screen, with their level, progression status, etc.
The fact that the game allow an even simpler UI through quests is a fun thing, and you'll quickly understand that you'll handle better and WAY faster 10+ girls with the full UI rather than the two first girls WITHOUT these enhancements.
"The DeLuca Family" UI is also faster on several points, like "Corruption" or "The Awakening". Some games are quite the same than "Harem Hotel", like "Deviant Anomalies", but show it in a more readable/pleasant way than a white on black text panel.
And yes, this is true, such UI are quite frequent in sandbox games... It doesn't mean that it's neither a good thing, nor a good solution - day time handling is usually a big flaw, for example, like the lack of proper screens to navigate within the sandbox.

I won't compare with RPGM games, where you'll have near everything just by pressing "X" and reading the 3-4 tabs, because it's another game engine - but the RPGM-like UI, easier because built-in, can be done in Ren'Py too, it has been done already but it obviously require more work than with RPGM.

Spoiler: OT

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[Deleted member 929426]

I hope so. I was even chased away from this thread, and that's not a hard thing to do, but it was enough for me to avoid contact with it while this was going on.

But I agree, with you. No more.

I agree with you. I've gotten really fed up with how the "discussion" has been and have decided to take an indefinite break from this thread. Take care everyone.

 

[c3p0]

I agree with you. I've gotten really fed up with how the "discussion" has been and have decided to take an indefinite break from this thread. Take care everyone.

Sad to hear, but understandable. Although I do hope, that you come back.