Ren'Py Harem Hotel [v0.19.1] [Runey]

[shadowtempered]

Not only. Also because the sisters* have sex together.
*More than sister pair is in the game and a least one of them have sex together.

Depending on choices, there is what - 3 sister pairings you can have sex with? One is a bit more recent than the previous two

 

[DigDug69]

Depending on choices, there is what - 3 sister pairings you can have sex with? One is a bit more recent than the previous two

And potentially 4 in the future if things work out right.
The twins.
Kali and her sister.
Jin and Lin.
Autumn and her sister.

 

[DigDug69]

And potentially 4 in the future if things work out right.
The twins.
Kali and her sister.
Jin and Lin.
Autumn and her sister.

And then we have the issue of mothers in the future, both Maria's and Lin's, and also Kali's stepmother.
Oh, and we cannot forget the Android and her daughter.
Or, just name the MC Daddy, and everyone will be related to the MC.

 

[Corvus Belli]

And the reason for not rounding them all up would likely be that a sudden dropping of fresh elves into the market, would devalue the currently owned slaves, and hurt the market.

There are a LOT of elven slaves. According to Runey, there are about a billion elves in Syl'anar (and 3 billion humans). The introduction of a single clan with a triple digit population is not going to notably affect the value of elven slaves. The Owl Clan would represent about 0.0001% of the elven population, and that's if we generously assume there's a thousand of them; that's not enough for the market to even register, let alone have a negative effect on it.
It would barely affect the value of currently owned slaves even if the clan numbered in the hundreds of thousands, since there are, as already stated, a billion elves already; increasing those numbers by 0.01% would have less effect than a rounding error.

 

[DigDug69]

There are a LOT of elven slaves. According to Runey, there are about a billion elves in Syl'anar (and 3 billion humans). The introduction of a single clan with a triple digit population is not going to notably affect the value of elven slaves. The Owl Clan would represent about 0.0001% of the elven population, and that's if we generously assume there's a thousand of them; that's not enough for the market to even register, let alone have a negative effect on it.
It would barely affect the value of currently owned slaves even if the clan numbered in the hundreds of thousands, since there are, as already stated, a billion elves already; increasing those numbers by 0.01% would have less effect than a rounding error.

Which is why I mentioned the other possibility, as a form of wildlife preserve with elves in a natural setting.

As for the number of elves versus humans there.
That is a smaller percentage than the ratio of free versus slaves in the southern states during the U.S. Civil War. Approximately 9,000,000 free in the confederate states, versus Approximately 4,000,000 slaves in the confederate states.
1/3 slaves in Sylanar, versus almost 1/2 slaves in the confederacy.

Remember, it was not 1 in every 3 people owning slaves in Sylanar, there were huge factories and farms using slave labor, along with mining operations, all of which would have been able to use a huge number of slaves.
And they would have been owned by only 1, or maybe a few people who owned or operated those businesses.

 

[Quetzzz]

The clan alone is too weak to cause any real problems, and is useful for learning about how elves lived.
Think of it as a nature preserve.

This seems to be the case. I had forgotten about this expositional bit from Nala:

"The desert elves! Most elves were naturists, but the desert elves were animists! Arthur wrote that they wore no armor at all, and most were often fully exposed in the nude. He says they had no shame at all, but now of course we would consider them culturally nudists. And some tribes still are."

As for the humans minds being changed, that would depend on peoples outlook towards society and life in that world, so we will have to wait and see.

There were some statistics quoted that 15% agreed with giving Elves more rights. I doubt any pro-elf propaganda would decrease this number, at least. But, I agree, we'll have to wait and see how it goes.

 

[Evil13]

To put it this way, in our world, healthy population growth in a developed country is on average 2.1 children per woman. That number is higher in less developed countries due to various factors.

So with that in mind, the global population is 7.95 billion, of which 4 billion are men and 3.95 billion are women (actually, I found that somewhat surprising, I would have thought the reverse. Oh well). (Oh and just for reference - 3.95 billion is 3,950,000,000) If we look at the age metrics of the global population:
- 5.02% are aged over 65
- 40.92% are between the ages of 25 and 64
- 16.87% are 15-24
- 22.47% are 5-14
- 14.72% are under 5

Okay, so we have some numbers there.
Let's apply them to the world that Harem Hotel is in, just focusing on that population of 1 billion elves (for the sake of simplicity we'll just say the genders are evenly split).

As well as that, we're also going to presume that the world is considered developed.

We have a population of female elves of 500 million (500,000,000). Despite the elves longevity, we're still going to go by the age metrics as the youngest and eldest elves aren't capable of child bearing. So we're looking at the Elven equivalent of the 15-24 and 25-64 age groups (or 57.79% of the population)

We're looking at population of 288,950,000 (57.79% of 500 million) who can bear children. For there to be a healthy population growth, each of them would need to bear 2.1 children during their lives, or 606,795,000 children for the next generation, or 606 million elves.

Except there is not a healthy population growth happening because the population isn't in a position to be growing. Slavery, trafficking and experimentation is having an impact on the elven population. Breeding stock isn't a means to ensure healthy population growth. It's just making new stock for someone to buy. And of course, that's not even getting into the idea that many elves will never have children.

The Owl Clan isn't going to do much to help, be it as slaves or to help bring in new blood.

 

[DigDug69]

There were some statistics quoted that 15% agreed with giving Elves more rights. I doubt any pro-elf propaganda would decrease this number, at least. But, I agree, we'll have to wait and see how it goes.

Unless you take into account the corruption in the Sylanar government.
We know that the government is corrupt, and heavily invested in slave labor.
The nations whole economy is based on it, just as the confederacy's was.
A corrupt government would have no issues with changing the statistics, so that it looked like there was not much support for freeing the elves.
If it appeared that there is not much support, then fewer people would be likely to join together to try to push for freeing the slaves, since they would have seen themselves as the minority, with little hope of success, and possibly a substantial risk.

 

[Quetzzz]

Unless you take into account the corruption in the Sylanar government.
We know that the government is corrupt, and heavily invested in slave labor.
The nations whole economy is based on it, just as the confederacy's was.
A corrupt government would have no issues with changing the statistics, so that it looked like there was not much support for freeing the elves.

True, except we don't know if the government was the source of those statistics. Whatshisface is still getting elected after being the minster of elves for 30 years, and having given them more rights. That at least implies that the average public opinion trends in favor of Elves.

 

[DigDug69]

True, except we don't know if the government was the source of those statistics. Whatshisface is still getting elected after being the minster of elves for 30 years, and having given them more rights. That at least implies that the average public opinion trends in favor of Elves.

Many third world dictators get re-elected without true majority support in the country.
They control the government, so they could rig the elections. Example: look at this world, and the nations it has and the many elected dictators..
The minister of slaves and those freedoms, may very well have been nothing more than a move to appease those people who were against slavery, and keep them docile.

 

[Quetzzz]

Except there is not a healthy population growth happening because the population isn't in a position to be growing. Slavery, trafficking and experimentation is having an impact on the elven population. Breeding stock isn't a means to ensure healthy population growth. It's just making new stock for someone to buy. And of course, that's not even getting into the idea that many elves will never have children.

This is something I realized as well, when it was mentioned that the Elves who got sent to the Capitol were neutered. Male Elves are subjected to physical labor, so their mortality rate will be a lot higher than female Elves'. Elves also don't get pregnant easily, this would make breeding facilities relatively expensive. Relying on half Elves isn't a solution either, since their offspring are considered human, and they don't tend to live as long. Unless, of course, policy gets changed about which percentage of Elvish DNA someone needs to have to be considered a slave.

If everything remains the same, I think the logical conclusion is that Elves will die out.

 

[TheDevian]

To put it this way, in our world, healthy population growth in a developed country is on average 2.1 children per woman. That number is higher in less developed countries due to various factors.

So with that in mind, the global population is 7.95 billion, of which 4 billion are men and 3.95 billion are women (actually, I found that somewhat surprising, I would have thought the reverse. Oh well). (Oh and just for reference - 3.95 billion is 3,950,000,000) If we look at the age metrics of the global population:
- 5.02% are aged over 65
- 40.92% are between the ages of 25 and 64
- 16.87% are 15-24
- 22.47% are 5-14
- 14.72% are under 5

Okay, so we have some numbers there.
Let's apply them to the world that Harem Hotel is in, just focusing on that population of 1 billion elves (for the sake of simplicity we'll just say the genders are evenly split).

As well as that, we're also going to presume that the world is considered developed.

We have a population of female elves of 500 million (500,000,000). Despite the elves longevity, we're still going to go by the age metrics as the youngest and eldest elves aren't capable of child bearing. So we're looking at the Elven equivalent of the 15-24 and 25-64 age groups (or 57.79% of the population)

We're looking at population of 288,950,000 (57.79% of 500 million) who can bear children. For there to be a healthy population growth, each of them would need to bear 2.1 children during their lives, or 606,795,000 children for the next generation, or 606 million elves.

Except there is not a healthy population growth happening because the population isn't in a position to be growing. Slavery, trafficking and experimentation is having an impact on the elven population. Breeding stock isn't a means to ensure healthy population growth. It's just making new stock for someone to buy. And of course, that's not even getting into the idea that many elves will never have children.

The Owl Clan isn't going to do much to help, be it as slaves or to help bring in new blood.

Exactly, they are just not considered worth the trouble.

And then we have the issue of mothers in the future, both Maria's and Lin's, and also Kali's stepmother.
Oh, and we cannot forget the Android and her daughter.
Or, just name the MC Daddy, and everyone will be related to the MC.

I still want to spank Ashley's mom too. lol

 

[DigDug69]

I still want to spank Ashley's mom too. lol

Of course you do.

 

[Quetzzz]

The minister of slaves and those freedoms, may very well have been nothing more than a move to appease those people who were against slavery, and keep them docile.

That's possible, yes. You're right, the government is corrupt and is in cahoots with the media, using propaganda to shape public opinion. Maybe it's because slavery is so important to its economy that they'd use a figurehead like that. My gut feeling was that it would've been the other way around.

 

[Quetzzz]

If the government is aware of the clans (as Lin suggests), and Iksa is a terrorist, why hasn't she been removed?

Seems I jumped the gun. This is later explained during an event with Vanessa.
All this lore is becoming too much to hold in my head. That's a compliment though.

 

[Corvus Belli]

Which is why I mentioned the other possibility, as a form of wildlife preserve with elves in a natural setting.

That would be a potential explanation for not enslaving the Owl Clan as a whole, but it does not explain leaving a wanted terrorist alone when they know where she is, and they also know there's literally nothing the Owl Clan could do to prevent her being taken. It's not like their "nature preserve" is going to be negatively affected by removing and imprisoning a single elf.
It's also a really poorly maintained nature preserve, given the fact that poachers apparently keep flying in via helicopter and abducting some of them. And also, you can apparently sneak military grade automatons into the "nature preserve" without anyone noticing.

As for the number of elves versus humans there.
That is a smaller percentage than the ratio of free versus slaves in the southern states during the U.S. Civil War. Approximately 9,000,000 free in the confederate states, versus Approximately 4,000,000 slaves in the confederate states.
1/3 slaves in Sylanar, versus almost 1/2 slaves in the confederacy.

Remember, it was not 1 in every 3 people owning slaves in Sylanar, there were huge factories and farms using slave labor, along with mining operations, all of which would have been able to use a huge number of slaves.
And they would have been owned by only 1, or maybe a few people who owned or operated those businesses.

I'm not sure why you think any of that's relevant to the point; regardless of "free people vs. slave" ratios, or who owns the slaves, and in what quantities, it remains true that increasing the slave population by a few hundred is an utterly negligible amount, and would have precisely zero effect on the market value of a typical slave.
Also, remember Ashley saying her family was so poor, they couldn't even afford a slave of their own, and so one was provided by the government? If "can't even afford a slave" is a metric that defines someone as “poor”, then that kind of implies that slave ownership is fairly common, wouldn't you say?

We have a population of female elves of 500 million (500,000,000). Despite the elves longevity, we're still going to go by the age metrics as the youngest and eldest elves aren't capable of child bearing. So we're looking at the Elven equivalent of the 15-24 and 25-64 age groups (or 57.79% of the population)

There's a pretty massive flaw in your premise, right there; you're making the assumption that their population would be roughly equivalent to humans, in terms of proportional age ranges, and that's absolutely not the case. Those "eldest elves" would have to be almost a thousand years old to be past child bearing age, if we're talking about common elves (who live fifteen times longer than humans, and so would need to be about 975 years old to count as equivalent to a human of 65). Given that humans arrived on the continent only a few centuries ago, and one of the things slavers tend to do is "kill the elderly, as they make poor slaves" there's probably vastly fewer elder elves than you think. And there have been three violent slave uprisings, so large quantites of the adult elves who managed to survive the original invasion were probably killed during those uprisings, and any common elf born since then is still the equivalent of a child/early teen.
Lin was a very young kid when humans arrived and is equivalent to a 20 year old human, so every full-blooded common elf born after that point would have to be even younger than Lin is. As for the half-elves, Mariella is one of the oldest half-elves (Runey said she was 315) but is the equivalent of a human in their early 40's. Dark elves may have half the lifespan of a common elf, but that's still seven and a half times longer than humans; the youngest dark elves born into slavery are the equivalent of early 40's.
All-in-all, I imagine the common elven population is overwhelmingly the equivalent of 25 or younger, with a small proportion of "adults", and vanishingly small numbers of 65+ equivalent elves. Runey has said the elven population was in the "tens of millions" when humans arrived, and is now in about a billion. Even if we assume "tens of millions" means "100 million", and that not a single elf has died in the last 300 years (which is a pretty massive assumption), then you're still looking at a population that's 90%+ the equivalent of 40 or less. It also means, by the way, that their population growth has been substantial, and from a vastly smaller number of potential parents; until fairly recently, only those original "tens of millions" of elves were old enough to breed, and their population still increased by at least a full order of magnitude. The only logical conclusion is that elven birth rates must be higher than human ones, or else the population numbers are literally impossible.
The population of Earth has increased by an order of magnitude in the last three centuries, but that's 10-15 human generations. HH elves have increased by the same order of magnitude (or possibly even more) and that's with, at most, 2 or 3 common elven generations.

 

[Quetzzz]

Runey has said the elven population was in the "tens of millions" when humans arrived, and is now in about a billion. Even if we assume "tens of millions" means "100 million", and that not a single elf has died in the last 300 years (which is a pretty massive assumption), then you're still looking at a population that's 90%+ the equivalent of 40 or less. It also means, by the way, that their population growth has been substantial, and from a vastly smaller number of potential parents; until fairly recently, only those original "tens of millions" of elves were old enough to breed, and their population still increased by at least a full order of magnitude. The only logical conclusion is that elven birth rates must be higher than human ones, or else the population numbers are literally impossible.

Good catch! It's said a few times that Elves reproduce slower/with more difficulty than humans. So having this population growth of Elves after 300 years implies that there's commercial breeding going on in the background. And a lot of it.
That opens up the question... How would robots be able to compete with the price of an Elf, when Elves can be made even cheaper by just breeding more, flooding the market and reducing price? There's the factor of "Elves learn slowly", which might be contradicted by their otherwise superior memory. I can't guess how many years it would take before a newly born Elf would become a "productive slave". It can't be that long, because a cheap Elf can be bought for 400, which doesn't seem like a huge amount of money. (The equivalent of a plane ride for 3 people.)

 

[DigDug69]

[QUOTE="Corvus Belli, post: 11940693, member: 305037"


I'm not sure why you think any of that's relevant to the point; regardless of "free people vs. slave" ratios, or who owns the slaves, and in what quantities, it remains true that increasing the slave population by a few hundred is an utterly negligible amount, and would have precisely zero effect on the market value of a typical slave.
Also, remember Ashley saying her family was so poor, they couldn't even afford a slave of their own, and so one was provided by the government? If "can't even afford a slave" is a metric that defines someone as “poor”, then that kind of implies that slave ownership is fairly common, wouldn't you say?



[/QUOTE]
As for leaving the elf terrorist in place.
1: There is very little that she can do to harm them, with her limited resources.
Such a small number of slaves can do no real harm, and the government can use an uprising from those elves as grounds to tighten the controls on the slaves, if necessary, and come out looking like heroes...
Government: We tried to give that community of elves their freedom, and they repaid us by attacking us.
Proving that slaves could not be safely freed.
Read below quotes for more details.

Quetzzz said: There were some statistics quoted that 15% agreed with giving Elves more rights. I doubt any pro-elf propaganda would decrease this number, at least. But, I agree, we'll have to wait and see how it goes.

2: as addressed in another post: (read both quotes)
""Unless you take into account the corruption in the Sylanar government.
We know that the government is corrupt, and heavily invested in slave labor.
The nations whole economy is based on it, just as the confederacy's was.
A corrupt government would have no issues with changing the statistics, so that it looked like there was not much support for freeing the elves.
If it appeared that there is not much support, then fewer people would be likely to join together to try to push for freeing the slaves, since they would have seen themselves as the minority, with little hope of success, and possibly a substantial risk. ""

""Many third world dictators get re-elected without true majority support in the country.
They control the government, so they could rig the elections. Example: look at this world, and the nations it has and the many elected dictators..
The minister of slaves and those freedoms (and Leaving those slaves in place) , may very well have been nothing more than a move to appease those people who were against slavery, and keep them docile. ""

Dictatorships do not like the opposition to know how many supporters they have, so they keep them docile, and ignorant so that they can stay in power.

As for the elves dying out:
We know that they had a habit of neutering the males, and that it is hard for elves to become pregnant, and without un-neutered males or with only a small number, the race will die out.
All you could have in the long run, would be half breed elves if human male donors were used, and that may piss off the human parents of those children if they were enslaved.
Also, male elves are far more likely to be put to doing hazardous or physically demanding labor, which would eliminate many of them from the gene pool earlier, with work place accidents.

Basically, there may well be a billion elves, but how many of them are un-neutered males?
And also take into account the slow aging of elves and the difficulty of impregnating an elf.
It could take 120 to 150 years before a newborn elf could be old enough to be able to do labor.
So, breeding them like the confederacy did is not a viable option, because the cost of feeding them and caring for them for that long, would be astronomical.
If you want them to be good and healthy slaves when they grow up, you need to feed them reasonably well, and if you want them to be healthy slaves, you will need to supply at least basic medical care, for 120 to 150 years...
And even then, they will be a very young slave

*aging based on Lin who is 300 years old, and considered to be the equivalent of a 20 year old human.

 

[Corvus Belli]

How would robots be able to compete with the price of an Elf, when Elves can be made even cheaper by just breeding more, flooding the market and reducing price?

The issue is that even if they can be bred quickly, it takes over a century before an elf is the equivalent of a 10 year old human. Any elf born since the most recent slave uprisng is still a child, even if they were born the day after the uprising ended.
How quickly you can produce an elf, and how quickly you can produce an elf capable of being used for their labour, are different things. On the other hand, a robot is good to go the moment it rolls off the assembly line; they can be put to work from day 1, while an elf that you bred might be "work capable" when your great grandchildren are old enough to vote.

 

[shadowtempered]

That opens up the question... How would robots be able to compete with the price of an Elf, when Elves can be made even cheaper by just breeding more, flooding the market and reducing price?

The fact elves are dying out in this world and it's on the hush hush would suggest it isn't an easy thing to control. Either due to mix lineages taking over, not enough male elves, not enough coupling between elves or whatever. They're dying at a rate faster than expected that it surprises people.

Robot power by default will win out if that remains the case long term. In theory, no dis-obedience, customized to the owner's preferences and able to be created at a moments notice (assuming whatever materials they're crafted from isn't rare).