- Aug 17, 2019
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$12,000 USD or so, if I remember correctly.
Has anyone tried this? Creating fake patreon identity
- Thread starter kira123
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- May 27, 2017
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- Aug 17, 2019
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No, annually/yearly. $12,000/year, I believe is the minimum for being required to do taxes in the US (could be wrong, don't quote on me this lol), not necessarily being 'investigated'.
Changed Jan 1, 2022 - $600/year -- so tax filing starting next year.
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- Aug 17, 2019
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I stand corrected. Thanks for that, I wasn't aware. Biden's stupidity continues to amaze.
Perhaps, but it really changes nothing that wasn't already in place. Per IRS code, people should have been filing taxes on any income that is $400 or more after expenses for decades (I've freelanced a lot in the past 2 decades). What this does is makes it so that there is a paper trail to confirm this is happening. Also, the $600 amount puts this in line with any single entity that pays an individual at least $600 in a given year for work/services.
Funny, but my point (which I made in another thread) is to stop seeking legal advice in here.
If your country says "Do not do porn else we will behead you", you simply do not. Especially not for a few bucks a month, if you are lucky.
- Jul 27, 2017
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Sure, but that's a cost/benefit analysis and a risk assessment, not a simple "it's illegal so I won't do it." But I agree about the legal advice. The dude probably knows his country better than people who live half a world away and is a better judge about its laws and their enforcement.
As a gaym developer myself, I already know the likely benefits wouldn't fare well with his country's cost of offing his head if he shows a 3d pp so "It's illegal so I won't do it" is the shortest answer one could give.
- Aug 13, 2021
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It may not be ideal, but is it possible to put on a front for what you're producing? Flag it as mature content, yes, but advertise it as something with a subtle subtext to it? I'm in the camp of going by the book and using your information to create the Patreon, but I can't imagine in any way you'd normally provide documentation on your finances and have to explicitly report something like "I make porn", nor would Patreon explicitly state anything like that either.
It's good to be cautious, but I would think you're safe to move forward through normal channels. Honestly I would be more concerned about indirect hosting or false information on a Paypal or equivalent. Paypal at least doesn't seem to take kindly to that stuff.
Disclaimer: Coming from a person not in Indonesia.
It's good to be cautious, but I would think you're safe to move forward through normal channels. Honestly I would be more concerned about indirect hosting or false information on a Paypal or equivalent. Paypal at least doesn't seem to take kindly to that stuff.
Disclaimer: Coming from a person not in Indonesia.
- May 22, 2018
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While a paltry sum in Indonesia might be worth more than a paltry sum in America or Western Europe, it's still not gonna be enough to where it will ever become more than just a hobby(I mean unless you are one of the like 0.1%). Especially as a first time creator. Making indie games, porn or not, is an incredibly stupid way to make money.
I encourage people to get a Patreon and ask for donations if they want don't get me wrong, no reason you can't turn your hobby into a bit of a side-hustle. But I do question if it's worth becoming a criminal just to get some coffee money from your hobby, even in Indonesia. Better to find a legal hobby you can make some money from, or just don't take donations.
Assuming Indonesia's taxsystem reaches even the towering levels of incompetence that is the IRS is optimistic; they wouldn't notice a couple of hundred (or thousand) dollars of crypto flowing in, and semi-traceless prepaid cards are common in a country where a very large number of people are still unbanked.
Similarly, the "no porn" production part is massively blown out of production; there's big studios out in Surubaya that do nothing *but* porn, mainly as outsource artists for professional Japanese porn studios. If you get large enough someone will come asking for some kickbacks, but unless you make a big deal about being an Indonesian Porn Dev on Patreon they won't notice, won't care, and won't be able to extract both their hands out of their ass to do anything about it unless there is a substantial kickback available at some point in the process. Paypal receives the cash from Patreon, it doesn't come with a big huge "this money is due to moral turpitude" flag on it, and there won't be any substantial flags on it afterwards.
If you DO become big, set up a Delaware corporation, assign all your IP to that, and have them pay you for consulting services (which is exempt from withholding tax). As long as you pay fair market rates, you're safe for transfer pricing on that.
Similarly, the "no porn" production part is massively blown out of production; there's big studios out in Surubaya that do nothing *but* porn, mainly as outsource artists for professional Japanese porn studios. If you get large enough someone will come asking for some kickbacks, but unless you make a big deal about being an Indonesian Porn Dev on Patreon they won't notice, won't care, and won't be able to extract both their hands out of their ass to do anything about it unless there is a substantial kickback available at some point in the process. Paypal receives the cash from Patreon, it doesn't come with a big huge "this money is due to moral turpitude" flag on it, and there won't be any substantial flags on it afterwards.
If you DO become big, set up a Delaware corporation, assign all your IP to that, and have them pay you for consulting services (which is exempt from withholding tax). As long as you pay fair market rates, you're safe for transfer pricing on that.
- May 27, 2017
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I agree. In my region, people are being proud of having 300 USD a month and they have to work for like 9 - 11 hours a day as well as being blamed by their boss for a stupid reason to get that salary.
That's the problem of third world country moral shit, just by creating art which there is nudity in it and you are flagged as criminal. Do we kill people? no. Do we rob something? no. All the lawmakers are watching porn but they put in jail people who watch the same thing as them
- May 22, 2018
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Provided you get even close to that in the first place. Which is no easy feat. There's a reason like 70+% of games on here get abandoned super early when people realize making games is actually a massive amount of work for basically no return. Instead of working 9-11 hours a day for 300 bucks a month you are basically working the same hours for 50 bucks a month. If that.
Sorry to be such a Negative Nancy. I really hope your project does do well.
- May 27, 2017
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Yes except you forget some important things. Making 50 bucks a month of doing something that you enjoy is different than making 300 bucks a month doing something that makes you suffer every day and there is a thing called progression which can change that 50 bucks a month
- Sep 4, 2020
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Are lawyers also banned in your country? Maybe you should get some legal advice from, you know, people who know legal stuff.
Also, isn't visiting this website also illegal? From Wikipedia:
"As of September 2018, some websites including Vimeo, Tumblr and Reddit are censored as the government accused them of hosting content that includes nudity. Tumblr was put back uncensored on December 17, 2018."
Seems like anything regarding this sort of stuff is legally problematic in Indonesia. Trying to make money off of it is just dialing your exposure up to 11.
Still, you might be able to make money offshore with a naughty novel, transfer it to a local account with taxes fully paid, and as long as the material is never available locally or even stored locally, that might be ok. Until some mob led by the local imam burns down your house, of course.
Given Indonesia's level of corruption (ranked 102 out of 180 at transparency.org), greasing the right palms might be an option. But you'd have to factor in bribes into your business model and hope your VN makes enough money. Plus then there's the whole blackmail thing you'd have to live with...
Also, isn't visiting this website also illegal? From Wikipedia:
"As of September 2018, some websites including Vimeo, Tumblr and Reddit are censored as the government accused them of hosting content that includes nudity. Tumblr was put back uncensored on December 17, 2018."
Seems like anything regarding this sort of stuff is legally problematic in Indonesia. Trying to make money off of it is just dialing your exposure up to 11.
Still, you might be able to make money offshore with a naughty novel, transfer it to a local account with taxes fully paid, and as long as the material is never available locally or even stored locally, that might be ok. Until some mob led by the local imam burns down your house, of course.
Given Indonesia's level of corruption (ranked 102 out of 180 at transparency.org), greasing the right palms might be an option. But you'd have to factor in bribes into your business model and hope your VN makes enough money. Plus then there's the whole blackmail thing you'd have to live with...
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- Sep 4, 2020
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Based on the principal that billionaires don't pay their fair share, the
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Because billionaires are the only people who would spend $600 in a single transaction, doncha know.
For many years, the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (a branch of the Treasury Department in the US) required a Currency Transaction Report (CTR) filed by the banks when you participate in a transaction of $10,000 or more. Then they noticed people would break their transactions into pieces. So now CTRs are required for $10,000 or more, and also for transactions that add up to $10,000 or more.
Above the limit? Suspicious. Below the limit? Also suspicious.
- May 27, 2017
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Of course I will ask them! Hey lawyers, is it illegal to create porn when the laws are clearly stated you cannot create porn?.....
Yes, tommorow I will put every single human in Indonesia to be in jail because I know they watch porn too but wait they use VPN, can't track them damn
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- Sep 4, 2020
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Touche!
I suppose the point I was making was that if you break a tax law because your corner store was struggling and you couldn't scrape up the taxes after feeding your family, the punishment might be less than if you break a tax law engaging in socially unacceptable behavior seen as irreligious and immoral. In other words, the authorities are frustrated that they can't get a handle on porn in general (VPNs and so on), but if they catch you on a tax issue related to porn, they've got a way to make an example of at least one person.
Sort of an Al Capone strategy, if that makes sense. They couldn't get him on murder, but they got him on tax evasion, and when they did, they used that to destroy him.
- Dec 2, 2019
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Yeah not gonna reiterate everything in this thread that is already pretty obvious. That's one hell of a slippery slope followed with extreme paranoia and very harsh circumstances. Here's a better alternative:
Do everything but pornography. Learn to make art, learn programming, learn to make games! That alone, is years of investment worth of time. The difference between a pornography game and a normal game is pretty minimal. So, spend some free time actually committing and seeing if it's worth uprooting your entire life for. Game development (adult or not) is not for everyone. You're biting off way more than you can chew.
Then, in a year or so. You may have a better idea about what your limitations and capabilities are. If you're still dead set on making this happen - and making it an adult game. Move out of your country. Because at that point, you definitely know that this is what you want to do and is a passion of yours. Maybe the option of moving right now is off the table, but what about in a few years after you've familiarized yourself with game development?
Here's two scenarios:
One: You either start making a porn game now, in your country or out of the country. You subject yourself to huge legal repercussions in your country on a whim that you will even finish or make something. Or maybe you found yourself in a beautiful new country where uprooted your entire life, career, and whatever else on a whim that you want to make porn games.
Two: You have dedicated the next year or so of your life to learning the tools and skills to develop games in general. You've developed a talent and passion for it. You want to pursue it, and it's no longer a whim - it's a realistic goal. You move out of your country, or you start a PG project in the beginning to fund yourself for a move.
Option two, definitely more attractive IMO
EDIT: Btw, go look up statistics of game developers, how many actually finish games, how many actually stick to it, and then reconsider everything. The point I'm trying to make, is most people THINK they want to be a game developer, but when it comes to actually doing it, it's fucking rough. So before you go on making life altering decisions. Maybe get your feet wet with a frogger clone or something.
Do everything but pornography. Learn to make art, learn programming, learn to make games! That alone, is years of investment worth of time. The difference between a pornography game and a normal game is pretty minimal. So, spend some free time actually committing and seeing if it's worth uprooting your entire life for. Game development (adult or not) is not for everyone. You're biting off way more than you can chew.
Then, in a year or so. You may have a better idea about what your limitations and capabilities are. If you're still dead set on making this happen - and making it an adult game. Move out of your country. Because at that point, you definitely know that this is what you want to do and is a passion of yours. Maybe the option of moving right now is off the table, but what about in a few years after you've familiarized yourself with game development?
Here's two scenarios:
One: You either start making a porn game now, in your country or out of the country. You subject yourself to huge legal repercussions in your country on a whim that you will even finish or make something. Or maybe you found yourself in a beautiful new country where uprooted your entire life, career, and whatever else on a whim that you want to make porn games.
Two: You have dedicated the next year or so of your life to learning the tools and skills to develop games in general. You've developed a talent and passion for it. You want to pursue it, and it's no longer a whim - it's a realistic goal. You move out of your country, or you start a PG project in the beginning to fund yourself for a move.
Option two, definitely more attractive IMO
EDIT: Btw, go look up statistics of game developers, how many actually finish games, how many actually stick to it, and then reconsider everything. The point I'm trying to make, is most people THINK they want to be a game developer, but when it comes to actually doing it, it's fucking rough. So before you go on making life altering decisions. Maybe get your feet wet with a frogger clone or something.