VN Ren'Py Hillside [v0.15.1] [DarkBlue]

[sulek83]

Many of you missing the most important detail. Story doesnt need to be realistic to be believable. You just have to establish ground rules, shape and form and hold on to them without bending them where it is convenient or easiest way. Its just shows lack of imagination or no willingnes for pursuit different approach. When you create story based on real world, stick to it rules. When you create governemt agency based on real one keep it as real as it is, make an effort to know how to do it right. It wont be believable otherwise. You can add Dumbo, The Elephant flying all over. When you establish ground rules of why and how it wont be realistic but it will be believable.

 

[yossa999]

Hi guys! I wonder if anyone here, except for a few people, cares about the exact match of every detail in this game to reality? Does this make this game any less for you, does it ruin your immersion in the game?

This isn't the first thread I've seen where strange people come to complain about some of the details of an adult visual novel not being true to reality. God knows why do they need it, but it is what it is.

Let's say the author shows a court scene. A professional lawyer will definitely tell you that this and that could not have happened in a real court, that the prosecutor would never have said such a phrase, and the judge would never have answered him like that. But what is more important for you, as a story readers: that the scene evokes strong emotions, makes you feel for the characters, or that it accurately depicts a real trial with all the endless details and procedures that are inherent in this field.

Or damn hackers. I always laugh when I bother to think about how their portrayal in movies, games or AVN reflects reality.
A nerdy dude sits near a shiny desktop with lines of text running across multiple screens. "Let’s hack this bitch," he says and... starts tapping on the keyboard non-stop. He emits incomprehensible muttering, from which only individual words and phrases like "router", "firewall", "symmetric key encryption" and other magical spells can be heard. The closer he is to the target, the faster he presses the buttons. The tension builds and finally the climax! "Yeah, bitch, I penetrated your firewall, entered your soft and warm DMZ and filled your system with my juicy payload!"

What a pile of bullshit! But the viewer/reader/player came to have fun and got a spectacular scene, what's wrong with that? Both, the audience understand that this is a show, and the author understands that they are making an entertaining show, and not a documentary. If the audience wanted to know what hacking is, they probably should have started by reading, I don’t know, Mitnick’s books? Although, of course, this is also mostly entertainment literature, but at least it is written with knowledge of the matter and from the experience.

So, are you guys really concerned about Agent Fox's position in the US federal chain of command? Or is it more important to you that she's on the MC's side, fearlessly standing with him and Charlie against the corrupt bastards, and that she's hot as hell?

Yeah, and one more question has been bothering me for a long time. After all, Mia Wallace was supposed to die from cardiac tamponade after Vincent Vega jabbed a syringe into her heart as hard as he could, right?

 

[TonyMurray]

Story doesnt need to be realistic to be belivable.

When you create story based on real world, stick to it rules. When you create governemt agency based on real one keep it as real as it is, make an effort to know how to do it right. It wont be belivable otherwise.

I don't get it. You say it doesn't have to be realistic to be believable. Then you say make it realistic, it won't be believable otherwise. From what I'm hearing from everyone else, we're not specifically looking for it to be realistic or believable. We're just looking for a good story, which is what the dev is providing us (opinions may vary, of course).

 

[MiltonPowers]

Some people like the story. Some people think it's stupid. No one is changing anybody's mind. This is the story that the Dev has given us. Let's enjoy it or find something else to play,

But please, just stop talking about it. I for one, really don't care who knows more about the inner workings of the FBI.

Here is something much more enjoyable.

 

[Joshy92]

I'm hoping there are more pinups of Emma in a bikini in the future those are my favourite.

 

[Krytax123]

Hi guys! I wonder if anyone here, except for a few people, cares about the exact match of every detail in this game to reality? Does this make this game any less for you, does it ruin your immersion in the game?

This isn't the first thread I've seen where strange people come to complain about some of the details of an adult visual novel not being true to reality. God knows why do they need it, but it is what it is.

Let's say the author shows a court scene. A professional lawyer will definitely tell you that this and that could not have happened in a real court, that the prosecutor would never have said such a phrase, and the judge would never have answered him like that. But what is more important for you, as a story readers: that the scene evokes strong emotions, makes you feel for the characters, or that it accurately depicts a real trial with all the endless details and procedures that are inherent in this field.

Or damn hackers. I always laugh when I bother to think about how their portrayal in movies, games or AVN reflects reality.
A nerdy dude sits near a shiny desktop with lines of text running across multiple screens. "Let’s hack this bitch," he says and... starts tapping on the keyboard non-stop. He emits incomprehensible muttering, from which only individual words and phrases like "router", "firewall", "symmetric key encryption" and other magical spells can be heard. The closer he is to the target, the faster he presses the buttons. The tension builds and finally the climax! "Yeah, bitch, I penetrated your firewall, entered your soft and warm DMZ and filled your system with my juicy payload!"

What a pile of bullshit! But the viewer/reader/player came to have fun and got a spectacular scene, what's wrong with that? Both, the audience understand that this is a show, and the author understands that they are making an entertaining show, and not a documentary. If the audience wanted to know what hacking is, they probably should have started by reading, I don’t know, Mitnick’s books? Although, of course, this is also mostly entertainment literature, but at least it is written with knowledge of the matter and from the experience.

So, are you guys really concerned about Agent Fox's position in the US federal chain of command? Or is it more important to you that she's on the MC's side, fearlessly standing with him and Charlie against the corrupt bastards, and that she's hot as hell?

Yeah, and one more question has been bothering me for a long time. After all, Mia Wallace was supposed to die from cardiac tamponade after Vincent Vega jabbed a syringe into her heart as hard as he could, right?

I think it’s a bit unfair to judge it like that.

Everyone has a point where the quality of a story drops for him/her due to different reasons.

It’s for everyone different at which point a story becomes unbelievable or simply not coherent. For some simple details already influence their enjoyment of a story. But everyone has a red line at some point.

If the MC would suddenly able to fly or I dunno would start to fight the baddies using a sword most people would probably start to think „this is dumb, what is this story“ and some people just reach this point way sooner.

For me it was the scene with the detective abducting Emma and killing a moviestar just to let Emma go when the mc arrives to get killed by him ..

I still enjoy the avn and consider it „good“ (but not better) but I’m not really able to take it serious anymore which translates to me taking charlottes struggles less serious and reading overall with way less (none) emotions coming up. It just breaks my immersion or „empathy“ for the characters.

It makes me feel that whenever a villain has someone at gunpoint, he will simply put the gun away when the mc arrives and let him kill him …

All of this gets a bit worse when the game/story takes itself super serious at the same time.

It’s still enjoyable but could be way better and feels convoluted

Defending questionable plots with „yo it’s just a story/fantasy“ … it’s ok to dislike parts of good avns and to mention/talk about it.

 

[sulek83]

I don't get it. You say it doesn't have to be realistic to be believable.

Ehh.. Im sorry you dont understand but Ill try explain it to you.
You create lets say fantasy world. It wont be realistic since its fantasy world but it doesnt mean author can teleport some ppl to different places when its convenient without impact on time, travel and events that could happend or should while theyre traveling. It will break the immersion. But when you are creating something based on real events or whatever you have to be as much realistic as you can. You need to understand difference between realistic and believable.

 

[sulek83]

Let's say the author shows a court scene. A professional lawyer will definitely tell you that this and that could not have happened in a real court, that the prosecutor would never have said such a phrase, and the judge would never have answered him like that. But what is more important for you, as a story readers: that the scene evokes strong emotions, makes you feel for the characters, or that it accurately depicts a real trial with all the endless details and procedures that are inherent in this field.

What a pile of bs.... you are doing it on purpose right?
Are you really comparing this? Did I said that agent Fox didnt follow regulations while interrogating prisoner? Do you know what you can compare? If in your story judge stoped everyone and said, I dont want to hear anymore of it. Suspect is free to go. Bye. Thats based on real court right? Thats exactly some dev do it. It is still believable?

Some ppl have the nerve...

 

[TonyMurray]

Ehh.. Im sorry you dont understand but Ill try explain it to you.
You create lets say fantasy world. It wont be realistic since its fantasy world but it doesnt mean author can teleport some ppl to different places when its convenient without impact on time, travel and events that could happend or should while theyre traveling. It will break the immersion. But when you are creating something based on real events or whatever you have to be as much realistic as you can. You need to understand difference between realistic and believable.

No, I mean I didn't understand what you were getting at because you were contradicting yourself. The key point remains the same though - the vast majority of players don't need every little intricacy to be true-to-life in order for the story to be realistic or believable, and certainly for it to be enjoyable. The vast majority of players don't know all the inner workings of the FBI, for instance, so whether it is accurate to the minute detail or not is not important or even relevant. What is important is that it is fit for purpose and enjoyable, which I believe it is.

 

[yossa999]

I think it’s a bit unfair to judge it like that.

Everyone has a point where the quality of a story drops for him/her due to different reasons.

It’s for everyone different at which point a story becomes unbelievable or simply not coherent. For some simple details already influence their enjoyment of a story. But everyone has a red line at some point.

If the MC would suddenly able to fly or I dunno would start to fight the baddies using a sword most people would probably start to think „this is dumb, what is this story“ and some people just reach this point way sooner.

Have you ever played AVN with supernatural characters? Believe me, I can easily remember several games with swords, flying and ratings close to five stars. Now go tell all these people that they are playing a stupid game because swords are obsolete. The Templars don't think so.

I certainly understand your point, but it is not my job to be fair to everyone. I like this game and I don't like it when people come here and tell me it's stupid. I don't know what kind of reaction they expect by starting a discussion like this.

For me it was the scene with the detective abducting Emma and killing a moviestar just to let Emma go when the mc arrives to get killed by him ..

I still enjoy the avn and consider it „good“ (but not better) but I’m not really able to take it serious anymore which translates to me taking charlottes struggles less serious and reading overall with way less (none) emotions coming up. It just breaks my immersion or „empathy“ for the characters.

It makes me feel that whenever a villain has someone at gunpoint, he will simply put the gun away when the mc arrives and let him kill him …

I know, right? Or when the MC beats Johno waving his gun in a public place. I have no idea why this creep didn't go to the cops, who, as we know, were all bought by the same people who hired Johno. They wouldn’t need to come up with anything at all, the suspect commited an assault on an honest photographer, there are witnesses on the street, MC is sent to jail, even for a few days, and at this time Wolfenstein’s guys are dealing with the Lloyds, who are left unprotected.

Suspension of disbelief, they say...

All of this gets a bit worse when the game/story takes itself super serious at the same time.

It’s still enjoyable but could be way better and feels convoluted

Defending questionable plots with „yo it’s just a story/fantasy“ … it’s ok to dislike parts of good avns and to mention/talk about it.

I didn’t notice that the author urged players to believe in the 100% realism of his story. But at the same time, he raises quite serious topics of violence, corruption, and human trafficking. In my opinion, he managed to show this well and, by the way, many moments are quite recognizable and reminiscent of real events that we could hear about in the news.

As long as I like the characters, their position in life and attitude towards certain things, I don’t mind turning a blind eye to some of the rough edges of the plot that don’t seem very important to me. And I certainly don’t think this story is stupid, maybe naive at times, but not stupid. It seems like the MC isn't going to molest sleeping Charlotte to get a few lust points to open the next lewd scene - that would definitely be stupid even if everything else would be 100% real.

 

[sulek83]

I certainly understand your point, but it is not my job to be fair to everyone. I like this game and I don't like it when people come here and tell me it's stupid. I don't know what kind of reaction they expect by starting a discussion like this.

WTF? Man you have issues. I would advise speak to someone about it. Thats very unhealthy.

No, I mean I didn't understand what you were getting at because you were contradicting yourself. The key point remains the same though - the vast majority of players don't need every little intricacy to be true-to-life in order for the story to be realistic or believable, and certainly for it to be enjoyable. The vast majority of players don't know all the inner workings of the FBI, for instance, so whether it is accurate to the minute detail or not is not important or even relevant. What is important is that it is fit for purpose and enjoyable, which I believe it is.

Thats your point of view. You have yours, can you be so sweet to allow me and have my own? Yes? Thank you. The key point remains, I dont have to be majority and I can say what I like or dislike. You can agree or not, it goes both ways. Do you see me saying you are wrong? Beacuse majority this on minority that... what fked up sh"t is this? You cant have opinion, how dare you! Majority in own infinite wisdom is always right peasant!
Im out of here, one day more and I propably end like you.
Cheers

 

[Krytax123]

Have you ever played AVN with supernatural characters? Believe me, I can easily remember several games with swords, flying and ratings close to five stars. Now go tell all these people that they are playing a stupid game because swords are obsolete. The Templars don't think so.

I have played all good fantasy avns and enjoy them very much. That wasnt what i was talking about.

Fantasy elements are of course fine in a fantasy story. Its about what the world and lore established for the story. If a mc in a fantasy avn fights with swords and rides dragons, thats completly fine.

But if our MC in Hillside would suddenly start to ride a dragon and burn the bad guys like danaerys targaryen, that would be pretty dumb considering the established world. Do you agree so far? It breaks the immersion when there are suddenly dragons and whatnot, dont you think so? Would you still be able to take the story serious watching MC and charlotte flying into the sunset on their dragon after he munched the bad guys?

Thats of course all hyperbole but just to get the point across.

I certainly understand your point, but it is not my job to be fair to everyone. I like this game and I don't like it when people come here and tell me it's stupid. I don't know what kind of reaction they expect by starting a discussion like this.

I consider this mindset a bit strange tbh, whats the big deal if the critic is at least somewhat valid? Its not like it hurts anyone and sometimes (admittedly rarely) it can even be helpful. There are always arguments against critics which arent valid but "this is a story, just accept whatever happens and shut up" is not it.

I didn’t notice that the author urged players to believe in the 100% realism of his story. But at the same time, he raises quite serious topics of violence, corruption, and human trafficking. In my opinion, he managed to show this well and, by the way, many moments are quite recognizable and reminiscent of real events that we could hear about in the news.

I mean its a dark and serious story, usually it helps to bring these points across if its potrayed believable (which doesnt mean everything has to be 100% realistic) and coherent. These serious topic fail to impress when its displayed in a at times ridiculous manner. It would be way more of a gutpunch for me and provoke way more emotions if the setups would be less ... lazy.

As long as I like the characters, their position in life and attitude towards certain things, I don’t mind turning a blind eye to some of the rough edges of the plot that don’t seem very important to me. And I certainly don’t think this story is stupid, maybe naive at times, but not stupid. It seems like the MC isn't going to molest sleeping Charlotte to get a few lust points to open the next lewd scene - that would definitely be stupid even if everything else would be 100% real.

I agree, it would not be fitting for the tone of the avn (and sucks in general), it would ruin my immersion in a similar way like the earlier mentioned examples. Theres your red line, seems like we found it. Im not arguing that hillside is worse or less believable than shitty sleep molestation avns, i wouldnt even waste time to write something critic about these kind of avns.

But lets maybe finish it as this point, i said what i dislike about it and dont want/intend to make a super big deal out of it, as i said i still like the avn, yet i think theres nothing bad about valid critics in this forum here.

 

[Dessolos]

jeez the conversation if this is stupid / not believable is still going on. I think we all need a picture of Charlie's boobies to forget except yet to see them cause the dev loves to tease us

 

[cxx]

jeez the conversation if this is stupid / not believable is still going on. I think we all need a picture of Charlie's boobies to forget except yet to see them cause the dev loves to tease us

suzie in swimsuit is enuf.

 

[minibaer12]

suzie in swimsuit is enuf.

hm...

 

[cxx]

pointed out long ago.

 

[RandomCl]

That was one hell of a pointless and dumb discussion. Realism is not a thing in fiction. There's suspension of disbelief for a reason. Good luck trying to enjoy, say, any sci-fi plot, in any media, if you have a basic understanding of physics. People don't care about realism, they care about a good story.

 

[Dessolos]

That was one hell of a pointless and dumb discussion. Realism is not a thing in fiction. There's suspension of disbelief for a reason. Good luck trying to enjoy, say, any sci-fi plot, in any media, if you have a basic understanding of physics. People don't care about realism, they care about a good story.

lol that convo made me want to post a Emma picture so Joshy can simp and forget all about it

 

[Joshy92]

I want an option to tell Suzi she looks old just to annoy her. Or maybe tell her she is smelly.

 

[MiltonPowers]

I want an option to tell Suzi she looks old just to annoy her. Or maybe tell her she is smelly.