I suck very much at Patreon. Please help this clueless dev to do it better!

[Apple_Tart_Games]

Hi everyone!

I'm a game dev with one game out so far. It's on Steam for $1, but it's also here on f95 as well:

Sir Stretchalot - The Wenches in the Well on F95

I was hoping I could get some opinions when it comes to Patreon, because I'm at a bit of a loss with it all. First off, here is my Patreon page:

You must be registered to see the links

Alright, so I'm wondering how the heck I should be approaching this thing. When I released the first game, I got a few people signing up. Maybe 10 all up in the first month. That was over a year ago, and a few have stuck around since then which makes me think I haven't done everything totally wrong, but a lot did drop off. I've got a Very Good rating on Steam and nearly all my money has come from there.

I'd much prefer to be making money on Patreon. It's a lot easier to release stuff on there than Steam, but I don't really know what people want me to give them, other than the finished games of course.

I'm concerned about my workflow as well. The first game and the one I'm currently working on now are very story focused. It isn't one of those games where the dev just keeps adding pieces through updates. I want to try that approach, but it isn't for these two games. I'm not the sort of dev who is gonna release something that I consider rough. It'll be either finished and good to release, or unfinished and I don't want people playing it and ruining the experience for themselves on a lackluster product.

At the moment, I've got three tiers on Patreon, but I'm not happy with them at all. It really doesn't matter what tier you do, you get all the same stuff pretty much. I did tell people I'd be release art packs on every tier and also single images here and there on twitter in order to try and get people interested. I'm not the sorta dev who wants to have it so there's a crap-ton of tiers with all these different rewards either. It's too much to juggle and I'd rather be cranking out content. I also don't really like delaying stuff for different tiers. If the art or the game is done, I want everyone to get it at the same time.

So . . . how should I approach Patreon? I'm thinking of changing my tiers so it's more like this:

Tier 1 - Standard res artwork packs (1280x720), developer updates, polls when I do them, demos for my games, smaller game releases. First games in a series and stuff like that.

Tier 2 - High res artwork packs (2K+), developer updates, polls when I do them, demos, all game releases.

Tier 3 - Everything in the previous tiers and likely nothing else. This tier would really just be for people who want to support my efforts more.

^^^ I feel like just having three simple tiers like that would be a lot easier to manage. Most of my Patrons that I've talked to don't even seem to give a shit about the rewards anyway. They've told me they just want to support the games I make and see updates. But that's just those Patron's saying that, and there isn't a lot of them to go off.

Does this new approach sound good? Should I maybe just have High res art packs for all tiers to make things more simple?

Any other thoughts would be good!

 

[Droid Productions]

I'm a game dev with one game out so far. It's on Steam for $1, but it's also here on f95 as well:

Why on earth would you set it at $1 on Steam? Means you can't do discounts, you can't even do a launch sale, and between Steam and Uncle Sam you're likely to take back $0.50/copy

 

[OsamiWorks]

I think the best things you could do is improve youre art and other skills, you already know this but the people on patreon want to support you as a creator because they see what youre doing and want you to succeed. There are a ton of reasons they might stop being a patron and its not in your best interest to keep track of it right now

One thing I've noticed with successful content creators in general is a large amount of interaction with their audience and influence over their work. Think of something only you can do (and are capable of doing) that gives people a reason to stay a patron every month.

 

[Apple_Tart_Games]

Why on earth would you set it at $1 on Steam? Means you can't do discounts, you can't even do a launch sale, and between Steam and Uncle Sam you're likely to take back $0.50/copy

I can do discounts. I do them every time Steam has sales on. I can do launch sales as well.

I priced it at $1 because, well, I didn't really know what I was doing with the first game. I thought it might be a good idea to sell the first one cheap so that more people would play it and then I could better build a following. It still sells a couple of copies a day over a year after release, and I'm not sure if it would if it were priced a lot higher.

Also, it's a pretty short game and I didn't think it was worth much when I first released it. Nearly all my reviews are positive outside of some weird ones that didn't really make sense, so maybe it was better than I realized. It didn't have any animations, the main character didn't have any bust art, and it was just not polished to my standards when I released it.

I did update it so that all the lewd scenes have animations, the main character had bust art, and I polished it. I also doubled the length of the game and added a new scene. People seem to get around 1.7-2 hours out of the new version. Maybe it's worth more than $1, but I don't know if I raising the price now is a good idea or not.

 

[Apple_Tart_Games]

I think the best things you could do is improve youre art and other skills, you already know this but the people on patreon want to support you as a creator because they see what youre doing and want you to succeed. There are a ton of reasons they might stop being a patron and its not in your best interest to keep track of it right now

One thing I've noticed with successful content creators in general is a large amount of interaction with their audience and influence over their work. Think of something only you can do (and are capable of doing) that gives people a reason to stay a patron every month.

Honestly, I love interacting with players. I respond to everything and probably write way more back than I really should lol. I think I do pretty well at that part already.

I like what you're saying about letting patrons have an influence on what I'm doing. I'll have to think about doing more of that. I like the idea of letting them decide what I do next via polls and stuff, but wasn't sure if it were worth it with so few patrons currently.

 

[Meaning Less]

Why does your game have no completed tag? This probably made lots of people ignore it assuming it was abandoned while others might be waiting for it to be completed.

Also, for patreon support you should keep making more games. Post a demo version of the next project here or similar if you want to promote yourself.

 

[Meaning Less]

At the very least, if you have a new version of your game, report it to that thread with a download link so that they can update the thread links and bump it with completed, this should make more people take notice as well.

 

[Apple_Tart_Games]

Why does your game have no completed tag? This probably made lots of people ignore it assuming it was abandoned while others might be waiting for it to be completed.

Also, for patreon support you should keep making more games. Post a demo version of the next project here or similar if you want to promote yourself.

At the very least, if you have a new version of your game, report it to that thread with a download link so that they can update the thread links and bump it with completed, this should make more people take notice as well.

Game 1 is definitely complete. I'll msg the thread starter and get them to add the completed tag. Thanks for letting me know about that.

And I'll start doing demos going forward. Game 2 has the perfect amount of time up until the first lewd scene for a demo, so maybe I'll release that somewhere as well.

Game 1 I'm happy with if everyone on the lowest tier gets it, as its a good intro to the series. Game 2 is about 60k words long compared to game 1's 19k. Game 2 has a lot more lewd scenes and they're a lot better made. That probably should be on my second tier, but maybe I'll do that as all tiers, and then game 3 as tier 2 if it's big enough and I think it's worth it for players.

Thanks for the comment!

 

[Apple_Tart_Games]

Why does your game have no completed tag? This probably made lots of people ignore it assuming it was abandoned while others might be waiting for it to be completed.

Also, for patreon support you should keep making more games. Post a demo version of the next project here or similar if you want to promote yourself.

A follow up question: should I create my own thread for game 2 instead of having someone else do it? Seems a bit weird to give away the game, but it's going to wind up here anyway, I'd imagine.

 

[Meaning Less]

A follow up question: should I create my own thread for game 2 instead of having someone else do it? Seems a bit weird to give away the game, but it's going to wind up here anyway, I'd imagine.

If you don't want to bother you can always just use the report button in your game thread, asking for an uploader to update your thread and or create mirrors for a new version of the game version you just shared.

But if you want you can even request thread ownership of your current game and get the developer tag, just create a ticket asking for thread ownership and developer badge in general support.

 

[Apple_Tart_Games]

If you don't want to bother you can always just use the report button in your game thread, asking for an uploader to update your thread and or create mirrors for a new version of the game version you just shared.

But if you want you can even request thread ownership of your current game and get the developer tag, just create a ticket asking for thread ownership and developer badge in general support.

I didn't even know I could ask for thread ownership. I'll do that at some point. Thanks for letting me know!

 

[Alcahest]

I can't speak to the quality of the game itself, but looking at your game thread and your Patreon, it seems like you have only made one content update after the initial release here on f95zone. You suffer from a lack of exposure. You only have 78k views and you can't expect a big Patreon support if people don't know your game exists and your game might be rather niche and only attract a small crowd to begin with.

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

^---- This

You are rightly concerned about workflow. Less updates -> less exposure. Your game has only one review, for example. While it's a positive one, it's still just one, an indication of low popularity.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

If the game is not interesting you will not get much attention no matter what you do.
It didn't look all that interesting to me.
But i think you could have asked for 5$ on steam easily for the base game, due to fairly decent art.
Then you could also make each new episode you release into a dlc and sell each for like 1$ (or more) per.
That would make it work somewhat similar to patreon by giving you constant income.

 

[Apple_Tart_Games]

I can't speak to the quality of the game itself, but looking at your game thread and your Patreon, it seems like you have only made one content update after the initial release here on f95zone. You suffer from a lack of exposure. You only have 78k views and you can't expect a big Patreon support if people don't know your game exists and your game might be rather niche and only attract a small crowd to begin with.

^---- This

You are rightly concerned about workflow. Less updates -> less exposure. Your game has only one review, for example. While it's a positive one, it's still just one, an indication of low popularity.

That's what I mean about workflow. Like, sure, I have only updated game 1 once, but that was only because it wasn't as good as I wanted it to be. If I'd originally launched with the updated version, I'd never have worked on the game again. I get that a lot of devs update and keep adding new things to their games, but my games just aren't structured like that. Game 1 is a complete story and it's not an open-ended game. There's just no more to add, really.

I really need to re-think how I approach these games. My plan was fully complete episodes of around 2 hours or so, not a big game that keeps having content added to, but my thinking is changing on all this.

 

[Apple_Tart_Games]

If the game is not interesting you will not get much attention no matter what you do.
It didn't look all that interesting to me.
But i think you could have asked for 5$ on steam easily for the base game, due to fairly decent art.
Then you could also make each new episode you release into a dlc and sell each for like 1$ (or more) per.
That would make it work somewhat similar to patreon by giving you constant income.

Yeh, I do wonder if charging only $1 was a mistake lol. I'll never know, but it would be annoying if it had made the same amount of sales at 2-3x the price, which would have really helped me along.

I always wanted to do what you're saying and release the main game and then charge $1 or whatever for new episodes as DLC. The games I make really are structured well for that. A good thing about that approach is that Steam wouldn't require a new trailer or anything for each DLC like they do a main game, which would save me a lot of time.

My worry would be that no one other than the people who bought the original base game, would really see the DLC. Steam would notify owners of the base game about any new DLC releases, but that's about as far as it goes, I think.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

My worry would be that no one other than the people who bought the original base game, would really see the DLC. Steam would notify owners of the base game about any new DLC releases, but that's about as far as it goes, I think.

Nonsense.
DLC's are perfectly visible to everyone, so every time someone new finds your game they will see the dlc's as well.
You should worry about making your game as interesting as can be, especially the base game since it's like a demonstration of what's on the table. As for visibility, you are already visible simply by having your game thread in here and a page on steam as well, word gets around even if it may take some time.

So, basically, since you can't change the price on the base game just start putting out the episodes and thus expanding your game.

You could also put the new episodes behind tiers on patreon, if you didn't yet.
Though, it would be nice if that was only done temporarily and those episodes would eventually become free.
But well, that's something that is up to you i suppose. Good luck.

 

[Apple_Tart_Games]

Nonsense.
DLC's are perfectly visible to everyone, so every time someone new finds your game they will see the dlc's as well.
You should worry about making your game as interesting as can be, especially the base game since it's like a demonstration of what's on the table. As for visibility, you are already visible simply by having your game thread in here and a page on steam as well, word gets around even if it may take some time.

So, basically, since you can't change the price on the base game just start putting out the episodes and thus expanding your game.

You could also put the new episodes behind tiers on patreon, if you didn't yet.
Though, it would be nice if that was only done temporarily and those episodes would eventually become free.
But well, that's something that is up to you i suppose. Good luck.

Alright, I'll give the DLC approach some more thought, if not for game 2 then maybe for game 3. I made almost all my money in the first month of release, and I just worried that no one would see any further DLC.

I imagine I really just need to pump out lots of content and the visibility will come . . . hopefully lol.

At the moment, every tier gets the same game releases on Patreon, which is only 1 game at the moment. Do you think it should be that only higher tiers get new ones?

I do like the temporary idea. I do like the idea of eventually making older games free so they can be used as a lead-in to tempt new players.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

Do you think it should be that only higher tiers get new ones?

You can just put up one tier, put a price on it, and then put all the new content you make for this particular game behind that tier.
You can roll like that till the game is done, honest devs don't really need a gazillion of tiers you see.
Then, when it is done, you could combine all the episodes and the base game into one, and release it for free.

Afterwards you could start doing the same thing with the next game.
And at the same time also release on steam, base game + dlc content scheme, but don't go free later there.

This should work well, provided your game is fun enough to gather interest of course, gaming world is fickle and unforgiving.
Eventually you will create a reputation for youself and become known and gather permanent fans for yourself who will buy your shit always.

 

[Glib_Gentleman]

I priced it at $1 because, well, I didn't really know what I was doing with the first game. I thought it might be a good idea to sell the first one cheap so that more people would play it and then I could better build a following. It still sells a couple of copies a day over a year after release, and I'm not sure if it would if it were priced a lot higher.

Yeh, I do wonder if charging only $1 was a mistake lol. I'll never know, but it would be annoying if it had made the same amount of sales at 2-3x the price, which would have really helped me along.

Charging $1 for your game on Steam was definitely a MAJOR mistake.

People associate price with quality. I guarantee you that a lot of people have looked at your game and not purchased it because it was a dollar, when they might very well have bought it if it were $5 or $6 dollars. $1 tells them that you don't value the game, so they'll assume it is trash quality.

Keep in mind that people value their TIME as well, so adversely to getting eyeballs on your game, $1 tells a lot of people that it isn't worth their time.

One of my degrees was in business, and we studied this phenomenon all the time. It sounds crazy, but it applies to all sorts of things. The fastest way to get rid of physical goods isn't to give them away for free - it's to charge for them. Otherwise, people assume something is wrong with the goods. Expensive wine outsells cheap wine all the time (even when the cheaper wine is objectively better) because people use the price as a quality metric.

Do this thought experiment:
Assume you are walking down the street and see a guy selling hamburgers for a dime. Would you think 'Great value!' and buy a burger? Or would you think 'What's wrong with his burgers that he has to sell them for a dime'? A few cheapskates or risk takers will buy a burger, sure, but most of the public walking by won't buy one even if they are hungry.

You are the dude selling hamburgers for a dime, buddy.

That's what I mean about workflow. Like, sure, I have only updated game 1 once, but that was only because it wasn't as good as I wanted it to be. If I'd originally launched with the updated version, I'd never have worked on the game again. I get that a lot of devs update and keep adding new things to their games, but my games just aren't structured like that. Game 1 is a complete story and it's not an open-ended game. There's just no more to add, really.

I really need to re-think how I approach these games. My plan was fully complete episodes of around 2 hours or so, not a big game that keeps having content added to, but my thinking is changing on all this.

Patreon isn't great for what you are doing. It's NICE that you are making completed episodes and games and releasing them, but that means a LONG time between updates, and frequent updates are one of the major things people look for in deciding to support a Patreon.

The ideal model is a bigger game that you update frequently (every month if possible for best results) and after a couple of years of updates on Patreon, you have a finished game that you can THEN release to Steam as a full game for a fair price. You get money during development, then you get more money and players from Steam with the completed version.

Then you have a track record and a fan base, and you transition your Patreon to a new game and rinse and repeat.

If you are only going to make small games that only get updated once, the better model is to skip Patreon, polish them well, then release on Steam with a decent fair price that will earn you living money and build a community around your games that way.

At the moment, every tier gets the same game releases on Patreon, which is only 1 game at the moment. Do you think it should be that only higher tiers get new ones?

Again, Patreon works best for larger games.

I don't think linking tiers to game releases is particularly effective. As you noted, your game will likely be pirated on sites like this one ANYWAY, so everyone should ALREADY be getting your unfinished game from your Patreon for free. Your tiers should be for other things like the artwork files, discord access, voting ability for content, etc.

One effective way to do things (that requires frequent updates) is giving supporters EARLIER access to new updates, by 2-3 weeks. This means your most rabid supporters get to feel a little special, and most pirates (lets call them "passive" supporters, because they can still benefit you by word of mouth and praise) won't mind waiting a couple of weeks longer to see the new stuff.

If you keep doing multiple small games, I don't think Patreon is going to be all that effective for you. You can set it up to charge Patrons per release, but that's a terrible way to make money off of finished games. And most people will not want to support you by the month when they don't have any idea of how long they will be supporting you before a game drops.

Why support you for $5 a month for 6 months while you make a full little game, when they could just wait and buy the finished thing off of Steam at the end?

Just some things to think about. You already have a advantage over others in that you have a finished game to show, and the quality looks good.