I suck very much at Patreon. Please help this clueless dev to do it better!

Evizzy89

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2021
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They could be the loud minority, but I doubt it. Look at the most popular games here on F95 - they're usually simple VNs or pseudo-VNs with 'sandbox' mode (which has nothing to do with sandbox gameplay and is just a linkage between various rooms or areas you can navigate in the game).


It's just personal preference. Some (most?) people aren't interested in gameplay during their porn. They just want a light, breezy, interactive comic book. Can't fault 'em for it. Personally I think sports games like NBA or FIFA are boring as hell, but I have friends who rabidly follow and buy every new iteration, and play nothing else. It all comes down to personal preference in the end.


True, but the most popular games (like for example 'What a Legend') are all very simple, mechanics-wise. Most are pure VNs, some are pseudo-VNs with an extra mechanical layer on the side (which tends to be very simple), and none of them have anywhere near the complexity of your average RPG or RTS or whatever other genre you want to compare them with. When's the last time you played an FPS with adult content here on F95? Or a space-exploration sim? Or hell, something like Civilization or Alpha Centauri? It's either VNs or card/puzzle games, which just reinforces my point.
Savin, Patrons 6,444 monthly $31,733, Coc2, heavily exploration loop based
Fenexo, Patrons 6,927, monthly $34,559, TiTs, I believe this one would qualify for a space exploration sim also loop based
I heavily dislike most VNs
Tower of Trample just released a floor with 18 endings that is 100% focused on looping and replaying the exact same content over and over for 8 fing hours, and people LOVED it, (you study, open a gate, get brainwashed wakeup repeat) it took 3 years to create it <.<
what a legend? never heard of it (just searched it)
the pregnancy tag, there is a huge following for games that involve pregnancy the 2 games I mentioned also have focus on it
there are tags that people will absolutely simp for and if you can do good quality content around the tags then people will absolutely simp for a game
UTW just made I believe it was 750k in sales,(for those who dont know that game, someone who has had a patreon for the past 3-4 years, earning 15k a month on patreon, and just released their game on DLsite,steam,itchio,fakku, and probably more)
this is a game with about 30-45 mins of content

in all honestly not sure how you can classify "what a legend" as one of the most popular games, when I can literally list off a dozen or so more games that bring in 5 to 10x the income
it certainly does well, but for a VN game or a point and click its definitely a minority
 

Crimson Delight Games

Active Member
Game Developer
Nov 20, 2020
764
1,828
Savin, Patrons 6,444 monthly $31,733, Coc2, heavily exploration loop based
Fenexo, Patrons 6,927, monthly $34,559, TiTs, I believe this one would qualify for a space exploration sim also loop based
I heavily dislike most VNs
Tower of Trample just released a floor with 18 endings that is 100% focused on looping and replaying the exact same content over and over for 8 fing hours, and people LOVED it, (you study, open a gate, get brainwashed wakeup repeat) it took 3 years to create it <.<
You're just reinforcing my point.
Re-read what I wrote here:
Now someone's inevitably gonna say I'm wrong, and try to prove it by linking a handful of successful games with actual mechanics and complex loops, but most of those have either been in development for literally years (like a bunch of lewd Metroidvanias/side-scrollers), or are the result of extreme survivorship bias, or cater to an incredibly niche and loyal fanbase (ryona, guro, furry, NTR, etc.).
But unrelated to all of that...
UTW just made I believe it was 750k in sales,(for those who dont know that game, someone who has had a patreon for the past 3-4 years, earning 15k a month on patreon, and just released their game on DLsite,steam,itchio,fakku, and probably more)
this is a game with about 30-45 mins of content
That does sound interesting. Link please? I'm not familiar with the 'UTW' acronym.
 

BaasB

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I lost interest as well :cool:

And wtf is UTW?
 

Evizzy89

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2021
1,083
1,694
You're just reinforcing my point.
Re-read what I wrote here:


But unrelated to all of that...

That does sound interesting. Link please? I'm not familiar with the 'UTW' acronym.
[Unreal Engine] - Under the Witch [v1.8] [NumericGazer] | F95zone

ima be honest I jus skimmed whatever your wrote (i dont remember what you wrote) and felt like responding because im grumpy and waiting on my first coffee of the day so i wont be re reading anything (only nonsensical venting for me today)
 

Meaning Less

Engaged Member
Sep 13, 2016
3,540
7,112
When's the last time you played an FPS with adult content here on F95? Or a space-exploration sim? Or hell, something like Civilization or Alpha Centauri? It's either VNs or card/puzzle games, which just reinforces my point.
Well those games are a lot harder to make, this reason alone is probably much closer to the actual reason we see less of them.

I could give you some examples but you stated you don't want them, so instead a better argument that goes against your point is that if people really wanted VNs with zero gameplay the kinetic novel tag would be much more popular than it is right now.

Because even if devs are limited in what they can create they are at least trying to bring some sort of gameplay into their games, even if it is pseudo gameplay mechanics but they are still better than nothing at all.
 
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Apegi

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Jul 23, 2022
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Well, I am not a developer, but a player and to that extent a "customer".
And I come across a developer's Patreon page when I have started a (new) game and am looking for help or further information.
But most Patreon pages either don't offer that at all or only for money.
That is quite justified. There is an endless amount of work in all these beautiful games and the desire to earn a little money for it is very understandable.
But before the developers can expect that the customer immediately clicks on "pay", the developers should offer something first. And that free of charge.
Pictures, information about the content, maybe even earlier versions for download.
If I go to a Patreon page and read ONLY what I could read if I pay 1,5 or 10$: Then I leave the site directly without paying anything.
(And I do pay: For currently 3 games :) )
 
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Crimson Delight Games

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Nov 20, 2020
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Pictures, information about the content, maybe even earlier versions for download.
I agree with you on this, but we're not supposed to post links leading to lewd content on Patreon... even tho all these NSFW games are behind an 18+ confirmation prompt already, and anyone who makes it to the page got there through an external link because Patreon doesn't advertise adult content on their platform. You can get away with posting a link to your game on the public page for a short time, but only if you're doing it as an announcement and you don't show any lewd content. But keeping an active NSFW link on your main page (ex: a demo of your game) for any length of time is just asking for trouble.
 
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OsamiWorks

Member
May 24, 2020
196
204
Savin, Patrons 6,444 monthly $31,733, Coc2, heavily exploration loop based
Fenexo, Patrons 6,927, monthly $34,559, TiTs, I believe this one would qualify for a space exploration sim also loop based
I heavily dislike most VNs
Tower of Trample just released a floor with 18 endings that is 100% focused on looping and replaying the exact same content over and over for 8 fing hours, and people LOVED it, (you study, open a gate, get brainwashed wakeup repeat) it took 3 years to create it <.<
what a legend? never heard of it (just searched it)
the pregnancy tag, there is a huge following for games that involve pregnancy the 2 games I mentioned also have focus on it
there are tags that people will absolutely simp for and if you can do good quality content around the tags then people will absolutely simp for a game
UTW just made I believe it was 750k in sales,(for those who dont know that game, someone who has had a patreon for the past 3-4 years, earning 15k a month on patreon, and just released their game on DLsite,steam,itchio,fakku, and probably more)
this is a game with about 30-45 mins of content

in all honestly not sure how you can classify "what a legend" as one of the most popular games, when I can literally list off a dozen or so more games that bring in 5 to 10x the income
it certainly does well, but for a VN game or a point and click its definitely a minority
Dont abbreviate games to obscure what youre talking about. Your list is extremely skewed, and it doesnt portay what actually went into those.

Corruption of champions and trials in tainted space are both 10+ years in the making and have been around since flash. Tower of trample isnt that guys first game, they also go back 10+ years with making games in that style. Under the witch had a start similar to fallen doll where it was just semi interactive porn in the unreal engine made by a 3d artists, which is also 5+years of work on that on top of all the years they spent as an 3D artist. I cant imagine how much time these devs spent developing skills without pay and without knowing if it would even work out before they came onto my radar.
 

Evizzy89

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2021
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1,694
I agree with you on this, but we're not supposed to post links leading to lewd content on Patreon... even tho all these NSFW games are behind an 18+ confirmation prompt already, and anyone who makes it to the page got there through an external link because Patreon doesn't advertise adult content on their platform. You can get away with posting a link to your game on the public page for a short time, but only if you're doing it as an announcement and you don't show any lewd content. But keeping an active NSFW link on your main page (ex: a demo of your game) for any length of time is just asking for trouble.
this entire posts confuses me, I just went to check to see if this was true or not, and 9 out of the 12 patreons I clicked on had a public link to find either free demo, or direct link to their game on their main page
(Im following like 30+ creators didnt feel like checking all of them)
so im not entirely sure what you mean by "posting your a link to your public page/main page" for a short time
I checked my feed and there wasnt anything too lewd posted, so I get that(no public lewd stuff) but links to their game on public main page was there for almost every creator
 

Evizzy89

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2021
1,083
1,694
Dont abbreviate games to obscure what youre talking about. Your list is extremely skewed, and it doesnt portay what actually went into those.

Corruption of champions and trials in tainted space are both 10+ years in the making and have been around since flash. Tower of trample isnt that guys first game, they also go back 10+ years with making games in that style. Under the witch had a start similar to fallen doll where it was just semi interactive porn in the unreal engine made by a 3d artists, which is also 5+years of work on that on top of all the years they spent as an 3D artist. I cant imagine how much time these devs spent developing skills without pay and without knowing if it would even work out before they came onto my radar.
obviously none of those were 'too' obscure since everyone got the reference =O
I sometimes forget, CoC2/TiTs started with a 200k+ budget correct me if im wrong
as for ToT 10+years making games in that style is pretty exaggerated since about 8 of those 10 years was spent doing nothing :O (at least by 1 of the developers) once again correct me if im wrong

devs do spend alot of time without pay and knowing if it would workout

but that cant be applied to coc/tits/tot since they were pre-funded before they even started
(i honestly have no clue about utw since i never really followed that game)
 

OsamiWorks

Member
May 24, 2020
196
204
Well, I am not a developer, but a player and to that extent a "customer".
And I come across a developer's Patreon page when I have started a (new) game and am looking for help or further information.
But most Patreon pages either don't offer that at all or only for money.
That is quite justified. There is an endless amount of work in all these beautiful games and the desire to earn a little money for it is very understandable.
But before the developers can expect that the customer immediately clicks on "pay", the developers should offer something first. And that free of charge.
Pictures, information about the content, maybe even earlier versions for download.
If I go to a Patreon page and read ONLY what I could read if I pay 1,5 or 10$: Then I leave the site directly without paying anything.
(And I do pay: For currently 3 games :) )
lol yeah, patreon has an automated bot to filter for nsfw content, if you post and it triggers the bot, they will warn you and if you still choose to post it, it will get sent to a team for manual review. Basically, you cant post nsfw content for free without them taking down your page
 
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Evizzy89

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2021
1,083
1,694
lol yeah, patreon has an automated bot to filter for nsfw content, if you post and it triggers the bot, they will warn you and if you still choose to post it it will get sent to a team for manual review. Basically, you cant post nsfw content for free without them taking down your page
thats kinda dumb since as you said it already takes you to a 18+ warning
it doesnt seem like the bots will take links into account (just guessing because most of the creators i follow have public links to their games) either on itchio, or their own website
 

OsamiWorks

Member
May 24, 2020
196
204
obviously none of those were 'too' obscure since everyone got the reference =O
I sometimes forget, CoC2/TiTs started with a 200k+ budget correct me if im wrong
as for ToT 10+years making games in that style is pretty exaggerated since about 8 of those 10 years was spent doing nothing :O (at least by 1 of the developers) once again correct me if im wrong

devs do spend alot of time without pay and knowing if it would workout

but that cant be applied to coc/tits/tot since they were pre-funded before they even started
(i honestly have no clue about utw since i never really followed that game)
coc and tits didnt really have funding when I first saw them, it was just a text based browser game. Coc was just in browser for like 2 years, tits was really lucky and was able to launch itself off of CoC's success. If I remember correctly with both games, I dont think they got funding until the community made that that little window showing your character. Tower of trample had a few games before it, the last one i played was tower of succubus, but that one has been swimming around torrents since like 2018 and used to not be translated, there were definitely at least 2 games before that one that I was also able to grab from torrents. I mostly posted because you are diminishing the work those devs put in
 

Evizzy89

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2021
1,083
1,694
coc and tits didnt really have funding when I first saw them, it was just a text based browser game. Coc was just in browser for like 2 years, tits was really lucky and was able to launch itself off of CoC's success. If I remember correctly with both games, I dont think they got funding until the community made that that little window showing your character. Tower of trample had a few games before it, the last one i played was tower of succubus, but that one has been swimming around torrents since like 2018 and used to not be translated, there were definitely at least 2 games before that one that I was also able to grab from torrents. I mostly posted because you are diminishing the work those devs put in
I understand what youre saying and I dont mean to dimish the work that the put in to get where theyre at today, im just saying new developers will struggle to find the same amount of support, like youtube and twitch and other sites - first come first serve
ive came across so many talented artists, developers, writers that deserve alot more but the market is so flooded with everything has been done, its hard to stand out - on talent alone
 

Apple_Tart_Games

Member
Game Developer
Jan 16, 2021
222
235
Everyone in this thread is sugarcoating the situation for you, so I'm going to be blunt: you made the fatal mistake of including gameplay into your porn game. Now I'm not one to throw stones in glass houses because the game I'm working on does the same thing, but you have to understand that most people who play erotic games don't want anything outside the most simple game loop in between their sex scenes. It's why they play these games in the first place.

Now someone's inevitably gonna say I'm wrong, and try to prove it by linking a handful of successful games with actual mechanics and complex loops, but most of those have either been in development for literally years (like a bunch of lewd Metroidvanias/side-scrollers), or are the result of extreme survivorship bias, or cater to an incredibly niche and loyal fanbase (ryona, guro, furry, NTR, etc.). It's getting harder and harder to get and keep attention from 'generic' players as time goes by, nevermind actual monetary support. Games that came out in 2016/17/18 wouldn't even be looked at today, let alone played by most of the community. People have become extremely picky, and we as devs can't even blame them since there's so much content out there for players to consume (much of it free).

There's a reason VNs are the go-to choice for most people looking to rub one out quickly, not just here on F95, but on the wider internet as well. Anything that gets in between players and their porn better be damned good and unique... and even then, most of them will ignore it. Your game has quality art, but it's just another 'generic' medieval fantasy game (I don't mean that as an insult, it's just that you don't target any specific niche or fetish group).

You can still find success, but be prepared for a slog, and possibly months or even years until you build up your fanbase...


The best way to retain current patrons and grow your following with new ones is to make frequent releases... ideally at least one new content update every month. You, on the other hand, have weekly updates according to your Patreon, which is probably doing you a disservice. You're developing a 2D game, so the amount of content you can generate, implement, bugtext, and release in a period of 7 days is probably miniscule... even moreso because you have a game with actual mechanics that need testing and integration! If you were developing a VN then it'd make sense (tho even that is pushing it), or if you had 5-6 people on your team, but a lone dev having that kind of output for the type of game you're making just screams low-quality. Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not being judgemental - I'm sure your game is great, and you're developing it with love and care. I'm just telling you what potential patrons may think.


Your Patreon Tiers have nothing to do with how long patrons will support you.
If possible, try to make more meaningful updates, and you'll retain+grow easily.
Consider releasing every 2 weeks to building anticipation and generate more content.

I also saw this on your Patreon:

That's a major red flag. Why would any potential supporter give you money when you're stretched thin over multiple projects? I'm not saying you can't work on more than one thing (believe me, I know how fatiguing burnout from a single project can be), but at the very least don't advertise it in neon glow on your main page.


This is good. Keep it up! (y)


Hard disagree on this. His game has above-average art, and actual free-roam. Lack of exposure is his problem.
It's fine for someone not to like it, I'm not contesting that, but I think more people would play if they knew about it.


Take a look at his Patreon page, he updates weekly. If anything, it's too often! It feels cheap and rushed (not saying it is, just that anyone looking at it will probably think so... and would get fatigued after weekly update messages).


Do what you want to do, regardless of the market. You'll hate yourself otherwise. Chasing trends and trying to max out your income will lead to burnout if you're not working on a project you enjoy. And keep in mind everyone's bias is subjective, and all the comments in this thread should be taken with a grain of salt... my own included.

Having said all that, you just have to be persistent.

Keep going, I'm rooting for you! :cool:(y)

P.S. Followed you on Twitter, new art looks great.
Thanks for the comment. Lots for me to think about!

I will say, no matter what Patreon says, I definitely don't post once a week on there haha. I can go months without an update. Most of the time I only post when I've got a new set of WIP art to show, or the final pack to release. I don't really post just for the sake of getting the post count up. I actually thought not posting once a week or something was maybe a bad thing.
 

Apple_Tart_Games

Member
Game Developer
Jan 16, 2021
222
235
Well, I am not a developer, but a player and to that extent a "customer".
And I come across a developer's Patreon page when I have started a (new) game and am looking for help or further information.
But most Patreon pages either don't offer that at all or only for money.
That is quite justified. There is an endless amount of work in all these beautiful games and the desire to earn a little money for it is very understandable.
But before the developers can expect that the customer immediately clicks on "pay", the developers should offer something first. And that free of charge.
Pictures, information about the content, maybe even earlier versions for download.
If I go to a Patreon page and read ONLY what I could read if I pay 1,5 or 10$: Then I leave the site directly without paying anything.
(And I do pay: For currently 3 games :) )
So far what I do on Patreon is have all my dev logs free so long as they're not NSFW. If they are, I can't do them publicly anyway as I'm not allowed, so only paying patrons see those.

I don't offer anything free on my Patreon, but again, that's simply because I can't. I'd put up older art packs but because they're NSFW, Patron requires them to go to paying tiers only.

I do however, release a fair bit of finished art that is in the packs just onto my Discord and Twitter for free though.

I think what I'll do is take all the packs from game 1, and have download links for them in my Discord, and I'll say on my Patreon landing page that's where to go to get some freebies. After game 2 is out, I might do the same for game 1 and have it for free like that as well. I like the idea of having something like that to help players get interested and expose them to what I'm doing without having to pay.

Plus it gets them into my Discord, and I love chatting to everyone haha.

Earlier builds of my first two games aren't something I'd release for free, simply because I wouldn't want anyone to play them, even they did like the potential and it led to them giving me money. Those games are approached differently though. They sorta come together into a playable state towards the end. I reckon it'd deter more people than it would get them interested lol as it would be such a mess.

Like I said in some earlier posts though: I'm going to change my approach going forward and design and write around things that I can release unfinished versions of that I'll actually feel okay about people playing. I'll have finished storylines and quests, but just not all of them done at once.
 

Girm Ork

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Aug 15, 2019
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183
Why do you want to move from Steam to Pateron? Because of censorship and tedious moderation process?
But nowadays Patreon is not good at censorship too.
I think that Patreon is only good for popular creators with a lot of successful games. For beginners, Steam is actually better.
 

♍VoidTraveler

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Apr 14, 2021
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Why do you want to move from Steam to Pateron? Because of censorship and tedious moderation process?
But nowadays Patreon is not good at censorship too.
I think that Patreon is only good for popular creators with a lot of successful games. For beginners, Steam is actually better.
Can do both just fine, and also subscribe star is a good backup plan to have as well, if shitreon decides to ban your ass for whatever asinine reason you will have places to fall back on. :whistle::coffee:
 
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Apple_Tart_Games

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Jan 16, 2021
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Why do you want to move from Steam to Pateron? Because of censorship and tedious moderation process?
But nowadays Patreon is not good at censorship too.
I think that Patreon is only good for popular creators with a lot of successful games. For beginners, Steam is actually better.
The censorship stuff on Steam is fine for me. It's just the whole process of release with them. Mainly I just hate having to make a trailer for everything I release lol. I don't have to do any of that on Patreon.

I definitely don't hate Steam. The success game 1 got on there motivated me a heap to keep making more.
 

Apple_Tart_Games

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Jan 16, 2021
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Can do both just fine, and also subscribe star is a good backup plan to have as well, if shitreon decides to ban your ass for whatever asinine reason you will have places to fall back on. :whistle::coffee:
I'd never even heard of Subscribestar until this week lol. I'll start using that too!