I think it's very easy to create a good game.

[Interesting_name82]

Let me tell you how it gets hard:

You start learning Python, you realize how simple it is to print('Hello World'), you keep learning a bit more and start getting the most common code pieces and your mind starts dreaming away at how easy this is, I mean it's not hard and seems like everything you ever want is possible... that is until you start going for more than 50 lines of code.

You need to think of how to optimize the project, you need a clear sight for the project and what you want to achieve, what should the result and how accurate does it need to be, and what would be the workflow, how fast will you able to create code and continue the story, I mean you don't want people waiting months just for a few updates to your code, right? That's how forks happen. (generally speaking not renpy games)

Well, let's start imagining you started developing your game and want to be the next biggest one:

First you need to know a bit of Ren'Py syntax, it's based on python but a bit different, but wait, what is the story we are working on? You start writing the characters but you have to do research and look into the market, you don't want another duplicate little-cute-sister-and-bitch-big-sister-with-a-milf-mom story... right? oh but hold on, have you thought about the models before that, what if your story is good but they look like shit, what about the world? do you have the needed assets to make it a bit lively and rich, do you have another bathroom and clothing store other than those (you know who those are)? do you want to pay for something unique? but how are you gonna collect money from you fans, you sure don't want patreon closing your account each day because incest, wait... wait, isn't that the same model from X game? hold on I have renederd my animation what do I use? x264 or x265, what is h264 and x264 and is hevc the same as x265? does Ren'Py support either? why do my renders look pixelated and smooth? but ren'py games crashes when I use X video what is going on!? huh, how do I render my image to Ren'Py... is webp better than JPG but what about png? but that's gonna be too big.

See shit gets complicated really quick, not considering the hardware needed, you need to do those every month and be responsive to your supporters. Burning out is real and can be pretty quick to happen to some.

My point is, in hindsight, it looks fairly simple right? but what makes complicated it when you do delve into the meat of the project, it starts to be too big, too many factors that you didn't consider (have you thought about what will your daily routine be? how long your renders will actually take? when you burnout what's gonna happen?), you need to know what you want to achieve with what you can. Remember, every dev had a thought exactly like yours.

 

[DuniX]

Edit: Sorry if this sounds dismissive. It's not really my intent, it's just, it's hard to argue with someone who tells you 'you're wrong' when 'you're wrong' is their entire argument. Like, bring me facts and maybe I'll be more inclined to have an intelligent discussion with you.
I don't personally disagree so much with the premise that story/sandbox games are maybe not ideal. What I disagree with is that it's easy and cheap. If you bring me facts, I'll be happy to change my mind. In fact, should you bring conclusive evidence, I'll be happy to embrace a new way of doing wholeheartedly if it is an improvement.

Where is the "Western" equivalent of this games?
https://f95zone.to/threads/resist-t...-the-female-knight-v1-03-boroborogame.124699/
https://f95zone.to/threads/space-treasure-v1-2-monster-ken.122975/
https://f95zone.to/threads/escape-dungeon-2-final-hide-games.93879/

Tell me honestly how hard it is to make those games if you used a bunch of Daz or Honey Select/Koikatasu as is the "standard" in the west?

I Hate most of the "story" games here and I find only japanese games interesting which I have to MTL.
Where the fuck is My Type of Games?

 

[GreenGobbo]

If making games was easy I would've had the dev tag added to my profile like 2 or 3 years ago. Back before my pc died.

I already write short stories part time, creating a narrative for the type of stuff found here wouldn't take me that long at all. Hell, despite it all being tagged as "adult games" I'd put the average reading level for most of them at around grades 4 to 6. A few have slightly larger vocabularies that might bump them up to around a 10th grade reading level. Either way you're still lookong at the stories basically falling into YA territory.
Coding is where I stumbled. Even with how easy everyone says ren'py is, I couldn't make heads or tails of it. All looked like gibberish to me no matter how many tutorials I watched or read through.

Where is the "Western" equivalent of this games?
https://f95zone.to/threads/resist-t...-the-female-knight-v1-03-boroborogame.124699/
https://f95zone.to/threads/space-treasure-v1-2-monster-ken.122975/
https://f95zone.to/threads/escape-dungeon-2-final-hide-games.93879/

Tell me honestly how hard it is to make those games if you used a bunch of Daz or Honey Select/Koikatasu as is the "standard" in the west?

I Hate most of the "story" games here and I find only japanese games interesting which I have to MTL.
Where the fuck is My Type of Games?

Doesn't exist, you'll never find it.
Look back at what you've written yourself.
You already made up your own mind on this.
That's not going to change.
Your post is basically nothing more than you painting a line in the sand and daring anyone to cross it so you have an excuse to argue back.
Why bother? If you're just looking for a fight you may as well just pick a target and tell them you fucked their mom or something.

 

[OsamiWorks]

you can make some simple games with porn pretty cheap and easy and that still sells.

When was the last time you payed for porn? How does it generate revenue?

 

[Ambir]

Where is the "Western" equivalent of this games?
https://f95zone.to/threads/resist-t...-the-female-knight-v1-03-boroborogame.124699/
https://f95zone.to/threads/space-treasure-v1-2-monster-ken.122975/
https://f95zone.to/threads/escape-dungeon-2-final-hide-games.93879/

Tell me honestly how hard it is to make those games if you used a bunch of Daz or Honey Select/Koikatasu as is the "standard" in the west?

I'd say for a solo dev, it would take anywhere between 6 months to a year and several thousands dollars to make a game similar to escape dungeon 2. That person would need to know c# to a decent level and to have a decent mastery of unity.
That person would also need to know daz or honey select pretty well before being able to make something that looks as good, visually.

I would be surprised if someone who has less than 3 years of experience programming and using unity, as well as at least 6 months to a year of experience using either daz or HS/KS was able to make a game that is as good as escape dungeon 2. And even then, as I said, it would still take a solo dev a significant amount of time, given what was involved in making the game.


If we're talking about a professional developper, this game is a medium challenge if that person has access to either the skills to make the game, or the money to hire good enough team members.
If we're talking about someone who makes a game for the first time and has only dabbled with daz and unity, something like escape dungeon 2 is nigh on impossible and would require superhuman levels of effort, with high likelihood of failure. I think you don't realize how complex the game is. It looks simple, but it definitely has a decent skill requirement.

TLDR: If one was to spend a couple of years training to make games, I think they could make something as polished as escape dungeon 2 if they were ready to spend several thousands of dollars and 3 to 6 months, depending on how many people they hire. How hard is that? I dunno, but I would disagree with anyone telling me it's easy.

 

[DuniX]

I would be surprised if someone who has less than 3 years of experience programming and using unity, as well as at least 6 months to a year of experience using either daz or HS/KS was able to make a game that is as good as escape dungeon 2. And even then, as I said, it would still take a solo dev a significant amount of time, given what was involved in making the game.

I completely retract my words. With talentless and delusional hacks like you I am surprised anything gets done.

You can bang something like that game in 2 weeks in a game jam minus some polish and content.
You get Characters, you get Sex Scenes, you even get Monsters in Honey Select, what more do you need?

While "experience" in Honey Select is subjective, you don't really that much to get started and you can ask around or look at tutorials on how to setup the Lighting and Rendering which is the only key concept you would really need to understand.

So what is the problem? Is the making the dungeons too hard? Spoilers! Like Escape Dungeon 1 you don't need to make the game 3D.
Is getting some 2D Tilesets Assets from somewhere that hard?

Is making the Combat System too hard? Spoilers! You can Carbon Copy Clone It from another game. It's a Porn Game, nobody cares about plagiarism.

 

[OsamiWorks]

DuniX lol then post your work and show people why they should take your opinions seriously

 

[Ambir]

I completely retract my words. With talentless and delusional hacks like you I am surprised anything gets done.

Winterfire Damn, you need to watch out or I'm going to be more talentless than you in no time if this continues

You can bang something like that game in 2 weeks in a game jam minus some polish and content.
You get Characters, you get Sex Scenes, you even get Monsters in Honey Select, what more do you need?

While "experience" in Honey Select is subjective, you don't really that much to get started and you can ask around or look at tutorials on how to setup the Lighting and Rendering which is the only key concept you would really need to understand.

So what is the problem? Is the making the dungeons too hard? Spoilers! Like Escape Dungeon 1 you don't need to make the game 3D.
Is getting some 2D Tilesets Assets from somewhere that hard?

Is making the Combat System too hard? Spoilers! You can Carbon Copy Clone It from another game. It's a Porn Game, nobody cares about plagiarism.

I get where you're comming from. Your reasoning isn't necessarily bad. It is true that when I made my assessment, I was thinking about what it would take to develop everything from scratch, but there's probably a couple of ways to make things faster by getting premade modules. What annoys me with this is that when you rely on the work of others, you run the risk of not understanding how your game works, and that can be a big issue.

I still think you are very optimistic about this. In my experience, when things look too easy, it's that you're not looking at things in the proper way. Maybe I'm overly pessimistic, however, who knows?

I think after the project I'm working on, I'll see what it takes me to make a similar game to the ones you've linked. I'll let you know how it goes. Feel free to make a similar attempt. We can compare the data to see who was right and who was wrong?

 

[Gwedelino]

DuniX lol then post your work and show people why they should take your opinions seriously

Not trying to defend DuniX on this one since I basically agree with Ambir's takes.

But I really dislike the point you're making, as I think it's wrong to think that only people that worked on a specific topic can criticize it. It's something we saw multiples times on this thread already.

If we translated that into everything then basically nobody would be legitimate at criticizing anything.

- Did you already own a restaurant ? No ? Then delete that review you posted online because you don't know shit.

- Have you already been elected as the President of your country ? No ? Then don't talk about politics as you have no idea how everything works.

 

[Droid Productions]

But I really dislike the point you're making, as I think it's wrong to think that only people that worked on a specific topic can criticize it. It's something we saw multiples times on this thread already.

I'm not a huge fan of appeal to authority, but in this specific case it wasn't him saying "You don't have a right to an opinion because you haven't done that", it's a funny challenge to say "well, since it's so simple, do it".

I haven't climbed Mt Everest, but if someone told me it's so easy he could do it in an afternoon, I'd welcome him to send me some pictures when he reaches the top.

And no, you're not doing that game in 2 weeks. Even with pre-existing modules. You could get the basic gameplay down with grayboxes in a long weekend of hacking, but the moment you're trying to add the level of content and polish they have you're going to be doing this for months, even assuming you had a good 2D artist/animator for the sex scenes, and a good 3D artist for the environment and characters. Lots of little things like the UI animations, polish to the movement and camera controls, SFX, VFX, etc... all of that takes more time than you'd believe, even if you know what you're doing.

 

[Alcahest]

Not trying to defend DuniX on this one since I basically agree with Ambir's takes.

But I really dislike the point you're making, as I think it's wrong to think that only people that worked on a specific topic can criticize it. It's something we saw multiples times on this thread already.

If we translated that into everything then basically nobody would be legitimate at criticizing anything.

- Did you already own a restaurant ? No ? Then delete that review you posted online because you don't know shit.

- Have you already been elected as the President of your country ? No ? Then don't talk about politics as you have no idea how everything works.

You can know that your food was undercooked and had hair in it without owning a restaurant.
Most people don't see the whole picture when they talk about complex issues like politics... fail to see the point there.

You can think a movie had a moronic plot or bad acting without making a movie yourself.

But if you claim it is easy to make a movie like that, or a game, or anything involving a lot of things, how can you know how easy it is to make it if you've never made it?

 

[Winterfire]

I'd say for a solo dev, it would take anywhere between 6 months to a year and several thousands dollars to make a game similar to escape dungeon 2.

Could be more, too. IDK how long the game is, but my game (Legacy of Hestia) for comparison is taking longer.
If we are talking about assets' cost alone, it is less than several thousands, if we are talking about assets + feeding the slave developer, then more.

That person would need to know c# to a decent level and to have a decent mastery of unity.

fax

That person would also need to know daz or honey select pretty well before being able to make something that looks as good, visually.

It is chibi. You'd need blender knowledge and be a good 2D artist instead. Nothing you can do with Daz or HS.

How hard is that? I dunno, but I would disagree with anyone telling me it's easy.

I have a fair bit of experience with Unity, and I can confirm it wouldn't be easy.

You can bang something like that game in 2 weeks in a game jam minus some polish and content.

I mean, yeah... No shit.
However, polishing and content is going to be the most time consuming part.
SFW Community can get away with throwing low poly stuff left and right, but that's not going to work here.

You get Characters, you get Sex Scenes, you even get Monsters in Honey Select, what more do you need?

Except that is 2D, and the chibi characters need to be modelled on Blender. Doubt you can do those in HS or Daz.
Also, sex scenes need context and need to be written, and creating the scene is not as easy as pressing a few buttons.

So what is the problem? Is the making the dungeons too hard? Spoilers! Like Escape Dungeon 1 you don't need to make the game 3D.
Is getting some 2D Tilesets Assets from somewhere that hard?

The fact you think turning the same game in 2D would be easier means you have no idea what you are talking about.
Color me surprised :O

Is making the Combat System too hard? Spoilers! You can Carbon Copy Clone It from another game. It's a Porn Game, nobody cares about plagiarism.

Oh yes, you can totally ctrl + c / ctrl + v a whole system with no coding involved in Wonderland, pretty neat.

 

[demonbra]

It's a bit of a daring title, so I need to explain myself first.

I will make a clear difference between quality and popularity, as I think it's way more difficult to make a popular game than to make a good game.

So I'm not talking here about having a ton of followers or having a successfull Patreon, those are things way more difficult to achieve and which additionally depends on many others conditions like reaching popular fetish, being skilled at communication or even having a bit of luck.

I'm simply talking about having a game that looks and feels good for most people. The kind of game which mostly receive very positive reviews and that when people doesn't want to play it, it's more because they're not into the content featured than it's a trash game.

The skillfloor of game making for H games is incredibly low. People don't need to be incredibly skilled in either coding / programing / writing / rendering to make a good game, The audience will often give you a pass about one of the three main pillars of H-game which are Gameplay / Writing / Visuals if the others two are alright.
You only need to focus on two of them to even make a great game and I think it's pretty easy to find good games on F9 that completely miss one of those pillar but succeed at the two others, and this for every possible pattern :

- Good gameplay and visuals but poor writing
- Good gameplay and writing but bad visuals
- Good writing and visuals but poor gameplay


I thing that creating a good game is not a question of skills, but more a question of time and ressources, which are in a way, easier to get than skill. (not for everyone, I know)
As long as people are willing to put time and ressources into the developement of the game, then they will be able to create a good H game, no matter what their game making level is, and this even if it's their very first game.


I'm curious to read what's your opinion about that.

It's funny 'cause I would have said the complete opposite : it's much easier to make a popular game than a good one.

There is a pattern that works every time :

MC : MALE, of course, either barely 18 virgin or 35-45yo having his mid life crisis (wink).
and then depending on this choice, you have two possibilities :

1 : MC will bang all his family, starting with his overly maternal mother, then his cute little sis, who is 4 years younger than him but still 18+, because, magic, then his older sister who has an attitude problem.
Then make the family bigger : aunt, cousins, etc, add a few PNCs for quick sex-scenes so you don't loose your audience while building your "relation" with the main characters. You can also add the good old peeping scenes, yoga, massages, wet dreams and many more.


2 : MC will bang his family, but this time it's very different 'cause we are talking about his daughters, not sisters. Oooooooow.
Use the same "personalities", but this time for the right characters. It's a bit difficult, so please, try to follow me :
The cute one will be the younger daughter (your favourite, BTW). The attitude/bitchy one will be the older daughter (also your favourite).
The motherly figure will be your wife, but either make her look like a 25yo woman or make her a complete slut.
The aunt become your sister, the cousins your nieces... Wow, that was so hard...

And don't forget the magic popularity elements :

NO NTR, no father, no brother, no dicks appart from MC's one.
For the characters' physic you have a bit of a choice : only HB10 girls, or go full pedo, or use a mixture of both. But remember : the older ones must look like 25yo, max.


Then improvise whatever story you want around that. Some bullshit drama, college pranks, bullies, etc… The dumber and overused the better. Just look at what other did and copy it. That would be your R&D. But don't spend more than an hour or two on it. You're going for popular, not working on a decent product.

Learn how to make 3D renders, cause 2D art is too expensive to commission, and the only thing you have to spend time on are the renders anyway.


And if you manage not to make a popular game with this recipe you are beyond redemption.

PS : oh, and don't forget to create a patch so you can publish on Patreon.

 

[Wankyudo]

How to look down on an entire profession just through OP's title. Then proceed to urinate on that profession through their actual opinion. Yikes.

 

[Winterfire]

How to look down on an entire profession just through OP's title. Then proceed to urinate on that profession through their actual opinion. Yikes.

That's a common opinion that most people may have if they never attempted to make a game themselves.
Those who do, often end up with an abandoned title.

 

[Wankyudo]

That's a common opinion that most people may have if they never attempted to make a game themselves.
Those who do, often end up with an abandoned title.

I wish it was just games but unfortunately the more youtube tutorials pop up, the more ignorant people who do too who believes that one video means that they can tell everybody else that they are doing it wrong. Wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even watch the tutorial video the whole way through either.

 

[Doorknob22]

Assuming that wiring a good VN is easy because the technical skills required are not the the hardest is like assuming that writing a good book is easy because everyone has a word processor on their computer.

 

[anne O'nymous]

With talentless and delusional hacks like you I am surprised anything gets done.

Said by someone who, since years now, pass most of his time saying how easy it would be to do this or that, and never ever have shown more than impracticable half broken snippets of code (yet I'm not totally sure that you've shown some), it's ironical.

Is making the Combat System too hard? Spoilers! You can Carbon Copy Clone It from another game. It's a Porn Game, nobody cares about plagiarism.

What are you waiting then ? The three links you provided are effective games, "Carbon Copy Clone" them and show the world that you are more than a talk.

 

[Nagozo]

That's a common opinion that most people may have if they never attempted to make a game themselves.
Those who do, often end up with an abandoned title.

Seriously, lol. I wonder how many devs on here don't have at least one abandoned project sitting in a folder somewhere. Some people seem to forget that failure is kinda necessary in order to learn, even if the skill is perceived as 'easy'.

 

[Gwedelino]

It's funny 'cause I would have said the complete opposite : it's much easier to make a popular game than a good one.

There is a pattern that works every time :

MC : MALE, of course, either barely 18 virgin or 35-45yo having his mid life crisis (wink).
and then depending on this choice, you have two possibilities :

1 : MC will bang all his family, starting with his overly maternal mother, then his cute little sis, who is 4 years younger than him but still 18+, because, magic, then his older sister who has an attitude problem.
Then make the family bigger : aunt, cousins, etc, add a few PNCs for quick sex-scenes so you don't loose your audience while building your "relation" with the main characters. You can also add the good old peeping scenes, yoga, massages, wet dreams and many more.


2 : MC will bang his family, but this time it's very different 'cause we are talking about his daughters, not sisters. Oooooooow.
Use the same "personalities", but this time for the right characters. It's a bit difficult, so please, try to follow me :
The cute one will be the younger daughter (your favourite, BTW). The attitude/bitchy one will be the older daughter (also your favourite).
The motherly figure will be your wife, but either make her look like a 25yo woman or make her a complete slut.
The aunt become your sister, the cousins your nieces... Wow, that was so hard...

And don't forget the magic popularity elements :

NO NTR, no father, no brother, no dicks appart from MC's one.
For the characters' physic you have a bit of a choice : only HB10 girls, or go full pedo, or use a mixture of both. But remember : the older ones must look like 25yo, max.

Where do you set the bar which define if a game is popular or not ?

Because following the pattern you described doesn't automatically mean your game will be popular. Competition is rough.