I think it's very easy to create a good game.

[MarshmallowCasserole]

I'm curious to read what's your opinion about that.

Reality is the final arbiter of any statement. If making a good game is easy, then it logically follows that you should see no shortage of good games. Well, do you?

 

[Gwedelino]

Reality is the final arbiter of any statement. If making a good game is easy, then it logically follows that you should see no shortage of good games. Well, do you?

I never complained about a shortage of god games and I indeed think there is no shortage of good games.

But I'm only scratching the surface of F95 considering how quickly new games are coming, considering I only pick and try a very limited number of games and considering I have an also limited time to play those games.

So I don't see how the opinion of a single individual could be relevant.

 

[Meaning Less]

Reality is the final arbiter of any statement. If making a good game is easy, then it logically follows that you should see no shortage of good games. Well, do you?

Unfortunetely there is no reality when it comes to subjective concepts.

If you look around you will find lots of people simping for even the shittiest and most generic games, that's why there is no reality or even right or wrong when it comes to arbitrary definitions like "good", "bad", "easy", "hard".

If you are level 1 you can claim killing a level 5 boss is hard, but at level 10 you kill the level 5 boss with no effort.

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

If you look around you will find lots of people simping for even the shittiest and most generic games, that's why there is no reality or even right or wrong when it comes to arbitrary definitions like "good", "bad", "easy", "hard".

That's irrelevant, you can ignore other people and re-frame this question entirely within your judgments.

Is it difficult to make a game that you personally consider good? If no, then you should see an abundance of games that you personally consider good. Do you see a lot of games that you personally consider good?

To illustrate:

I never complained about a shortage of god games and I indeed think there is no shortage of good games.

I never implied you did. It was an open question, and now we have the answer.

And if you wanted to ask whether it's hard to make a game the general audience considers good, you need to look at average ratings (spoiler alert, you may have low standards, no offence)

 

[Gwedelino]

That's irrelevant, you can ignore other people and re-frame this question entirely within your judgments.

Is it difficult to make a game that you personally consider good? If no, then you should see an abundance of games that you personally consider good. Do you see a lot of games that you personally consider good?

To illustrate:
I never implied you did. It was an open question, and now we have the answer.

And if you wanted to ask whether it's hard to make a game the general audience considers good, you need to look at average ratings (spoiler alert, you may have low standards, no offence)

Problem being that even the concept of abundance is subjective and can vary between people making it even harder to define what's a shortage of good games.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Yes, they absolutely would. It's not practical to make a full pass on every minute mistake for a general review, but in general, that's exactly what a critic's job is: breaking down the whole into smaller pieces and identifying what went wrong, and what went right. "Great cinematography, shit plot, you have to watch it shitfaced to have a good time."

And at what time this is talking about something else than the result ?

 

[Meaning Less]

That's irrelevant, you can ignore other people and re-frame this question entirely within your judgments.

Is it difficult to make a game that you personally consider good? If no, then you should see an abundance of games that you personally consider good. Do you see a lot of games that you personally consider good?

It is not irrelevant though. OP statement might be absurd to anyone with high standands, but reasonable for people with low standards.

"there are no facts, only interpretations"

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

And at what time this is talking about something else than the result ?

Basically at any time a review goes slightly into more detail than a basic overview, which professional reviews do a lot. Especially when a movie is not good. It's fun to read someone deconstructing a dumpster fire.

Honestly, some of them actually go into details that are pertinent neither to the result nor the process. How's Brad Pitt's divorce relevant to his latest movie? But you will find some reviews mentioning such things (now, I do not mean to say that is a good thing).

 

[DarkDuck09]

I've been in the gaming industry as a software engineer/programmer for about 5 years now. All I have to say to this post is that you have small nuggets of truth in a sea of ignoring serious contexts that is required when making a game.

Making a good game CAN be easy, but it usually is not. The first issue you have to tackle is "what is a good game?" To me, a good game comes from the text book definition which in most game development courses is a game that is fun. In my bachelor's in game/simulation programming degree "Chase the fun" was used many, many times. Under that definition, there are a lot of games in this industry that are simply not good; but they're good to someone.

As for the hot take on games requiring time, not skill, I'll correct that for you: Good games require skill and time. Games require just time. You can copy from tutorials and stack overflow for a 2 years to make a game, but the game most likely isn't going to be good. In fact, I would say it'd be a bug ridden mess that barely functions. Where skill comes in, is knowing how to architect your game. This isn't just a programming thing, it's at every level, and the proof of such is here on these forums. Look at the abandoned tagged games and think "why did these fail?" I bet you there's a not so small chunk of them where it came down to "a lack of skill made the project impossible to scale and add further content to, thus burning the developer out." I bet another not so small chunk of it is "we ran out of pre-bought positions for Daz3D models and the game got very monotonous and samey."- which would not be an issue if one had 3D Modelling/animating skills. That's where skill beats time. A game made in 2 weeks with skill will beat a game made in 2 years without it, 9 times out of 10.

Having said that. Make games. Small, big, doesn't matter. Make what you want. Someone is going to play it; someone is going to love it. With every project you have, you're gaining skill whether you know it or not, and eventually that skill is going to let you make one banger of a game without you even realizing it.

 

[Crimson Delight Games]

I've been in the gaming industry as a software engineer/programmer for about 5 years now.

I'd love to pick your brain over a beer or two, I bet your have crazy stories to tell!

And how the hell does a professional dev end up on F95 of all places?

 

[DarkDuck09]

I'd love to pick your brain over a beer or two, I bet your have crazy stories to tell!

And how the hell does a professional dev end up on F95 of all places?

That can be arranged! I love me some beer.

I was on F95 as a lurker while I was in school for game/simulation programming. I didn't start becoming active until much, much later. Without getting into too many details, I've stuck in the simulation department as much as possible but have been thinking about making commercial games on the side (particularly here) for a while. The only issue there is time and burnout, really. I have some pretty strong opinions on what I've observed here on F95 though.

 

[Crimson Delight Games]

I have some pretty strong opinions on what I've observed here on F95 though.

Come on, don't be shy now!

 

[DarkDuck09]

Come on, don't be shy now!

They would be quite off-topic for this particular thread, but I'd absolutely be up to discussing them. Maybe I'll get around to making a "what I see" thread of my own sometime.

 

[Crimson Delight Games]

Maybe I'll get around to making a "what I see" thread of my own sometime.

Do it now, I'll bump it!
Always wanted to hear what a professional dev thinks of this place and the porn game industry.

 

[Deleted member 5132390]

If it's that easy to make good games, then this site should be full of masterpieces, and everyone can make one with a five-minutes tutorial you can find in YouTube. Where are all those masterpieces? Why aren't you preparing a new masterpiece? ... Why I AM NOT making my own masterpiece? That's all I'm gonna say, the dude darkduck09 above me already said this much better, and with experience too.

 

[Nagozo]

Always wanted to hear what a professional dev thinks of this place and the porn game industry.

It wouldn't surprise me if there were a lot of tech people lurking (or even active) on here, just based on the fact that there are a lot of tech people, and a lot of F95 members. Hell, it doesn't really count but I'm hoping to become one of them soon lol
I agree though, it'd be cool to see some more professional opinions on the projects here. Although I have a vague suspicion that there's a lot of valid criticism to be thrown around. I guess we need to keep in mind that most devs here are probably just horny hobbyists.

 

[Deleted member 5132390]

I guess we need to keep in mind that most devs here are probably just horny hobbyists.

Yup, most of the games here are made by only one or two persons, let's keep that in mind. Even established studios only have 4 or 5 persons developing the games, between artists, writers, and if it's possible, music composers. Hell, it's even harder to find games with voice actors, especially if we consider the massive quantity of games in this plattaform, which is almost a perfect compilation of all the existent games in the web.

 

[cesid]

I am not sure it is so easy. Cyberpunk despite all funds failed to create decent schedules for NPCs...they are just bots without life. Kingdom Come Deliverance has good schedules, graphics and gameplay but isn't a porn game.
For porn games gameplay is never that good. For example X-story creator tried to put some gameplay in taking off clothes wiith physics and gravity instead of making clothes disappear....well the results was clunky. In fact often they focus on writing because it is the less money requiring part of the game.

 

[DarkDuck09]

Yup, most of the games here are made by only one or two persons, let's keep that in mind. Even established studios only have 4 or 5 persons developing the games, between artists, writers, and if it's possible, music composers. Hell, it's even harder to find games with voice actors, especially if we consider the massive quantity of games in this plattaform, which is almost a perfect compilation of all the existent games in the web.

I always keep in mind the development team size and how much they are making. A lot of my critiques aren't even exclusive to being a professional; things like developers monetizing something before they even have a game made and then burn out three months later because their ideas were bigger than their skill.

 

[Geralt_R]

Well, everything is very easy if you know how to do it.

The point is that you need to reach that level of "I know how to do it" first. And many never reach it. Even handsomely paid professionals who, in theory, absolutely DO know how to do it, sometimes produce really bad movies, shows or games, talking AAA big league here, not small time Patreon.

Because it's absolutely hard and extremely difficult to produce really good content.

The problem with self publishing is that there are no gatekeepers anymore, no A&R people who scout for talent and sift out all the less talented people and find the real talent (in theory), so even 18-year-old homeschooled Timmy who has never seen a naked woman in his life can go and make an adult VN. And the results are exactly what you'd expect. VNs are pretty similar to all the self published Kindle novels... some are pretty good... many are mediocre... and many more are just straight bad. VNs have the added complication of making good looking renders and possibly animations.

Writing is not easy. Composing good looking renders with good lighting is not easy. Good animation is not easy. Nothing about the arts is easy. Pros can make it look easy because they are just that good at it. But as I said, even pros don't always manage to deliver good content.

The entire debate is a bit silly, in my opinion.