Youtiy

Member
Feb 20, 2019
183
220
Nah I don't care about whether or not he likes Cass or thinks siding with her is a good idea. I just don't like when people are so blatantly arguing in bad faith.
Whilst I didn't intend to respond to you any further I just found this one particular statement really funny.
I don't see anything wrong with starting a coup
The fact that you can say that whilst fully meaning it is insane to me, do you not understand just how many innocents died because of her Coup? People who had nothing to do with it and were just doing their jobs? To say you don't see anything wrong with it is truly something.
 

Youtiy

Member
Feb 20, 2019
183
220
Anyway, regardless of anything else the Coup isn't really necessary. At least not if the MC is the Crown Prince, by most systems with a monarch as far as I understand he would automatically become the Regent until his father is restored to such a state where he can rule again. So unless their government is different then the norm in that area for some reason it was all unnecessary anyway.
 

storm1051787

Active Member
Mar 23, 2019
770
1,209
The fact that you can say that whilst fully meaning it is insane to me, do you not understand just how many innocents died because of her Coup?
In the one you side with her, literally only two guards, no innocent people died. No I don't see an issue with starting a coup if you actively think the person in charge is doing more harm than good. Coups aren't always bloody
Anyway, regardless of anything else the Coup isn't really necessary. At least not if the MC is the Crown Prince.
It's necessary because it would take literally years for the MC to come into power normally while their father will continue to hurt the kingdom.
 

storm1051787

Active Member
Mar 23, 2019
770
1,209
Usually I'd agree but this doesn't really feel like that, more one party refusing to accept evidence whilst not giving any of there own.
They literally didn't provide any evidence and continued to baseless claims like Cass tricked Priscilla or that Cass planned to burn the whole kingdom down. Neither of which ever happens unless the player allows it too
 

Youtiy

Member
Feb 20, 2019
183
220
In the one you side with her, literally only two guards, no innocent people died. No I don't see an issue with starting a coup if you actively think the person in charge is doing more harm than good. Coups aren't always bloody

It's necessary because it would take literally years for the MC to come into power normally while their father will continue to hurt the kingdom.
That's not right at all, your forgetting that Pricilla or whatever her name is was going to poison the king regardless. That wasn't Cass's plot it was just something that worked in her favor, meaning the king would be out of commission with or without the Coup.

Oh and to do with the evidence, pretty sure they sent numerous screenshots and direct quotes from the game but whatever, believe what you want. I'm already done trying to convince you, at this stage I'm just finding this funny.
 

storm1051787

Active Member
Mar 23, 2019
770
1,209
your forgetting that Pricilla or whatever her name is was going to poison the king regardless.
Which is exactly my point. They were arguing that Cass tricked Priscilla into poisoning to take control then threw her away when she wasn't needed. There is literally no evidence of this. From what we're provided in came Cass's mother side wanted to start the coup and poison the king anyway since they believe he killed Cass's mother. Their argument is literally that Cass admitted to lying to a different character, so everything that comes out of the character's mouth must be a lie and she's manipulating everyone all the time.
Oh and to do with the evidence, pretty sure they sent numerous screenshots and direct quotes

The screenshot they provided is Elin accusing Cass of wanting to sow chaos. Again no evidence that Cass herself started the fire, and it's just speculation made by another character..


And another quote saying that cass killed some random guy is evidence that Cass tricked priscilla, which is completely unrelated.

After that their only other screenshot is a dream vision which are all supposed to be vague and could even be argued that Cass would EVENTUALLY lose her mind rather than being insane from the start like he's arguing. So he's didn't provide any evidence. He's just shitting on a character he dislikes. I've got no problem with it, but even in your own comment you pointed out the issues with his argument. Screen shots and quotes are completely useless when taken out of context. None of them are evidence.


Also one of his quotes is literally just the mc talking to a vampire. Cass hasn't even met that character so I don't even know why that one was included
 
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Youtiy

Member
Feb 20, 2019
183
220
Which is exactly my point. They were arguing that Cass tricked Priscilla into poisoning to take control then threw her away when she wasn't needed. There is literally no evidence of this. From what we're provided in came Cass's mother side wanted to start the coup and poison the king anyway since they believe he killed Cass's mother. Their argument is literally that Cass admitted to lying to a different character, so everything that comes out of the character's mouth must be a lie and she's manipulating everyone all the time.



The screenshot they provided is Elin accusing Cass of wanting to sow chaos. Again no evidence that Cass herself started the fire, and it's just speculation made by another character..


And another quote saying that cass killed some random guy is evidence that Cass tricked priscilla, which is completely unrelated.

After that their only other screenshot is a dream vision which are all supposed to be vague and could even be argued that Cass would EVENTUALLY lose her mind rather than being insane from the start like he's arguing. So he's didn't provide any evidence. He's just shitting on a character he dislikes. I've got no problem with it, but even in your own comment you pointed out the issues with his argument. Screen shots and quotes are completely useless when taken out of context. None of them are evidence.


Also one of his quotes is literally just the mc talking to a vampire. Cass hasn't even met that character so I don't even know why that one was included
Aight, one last message from me on the matter. I'm not going to say anything on what they said or what you said instead I'll simply lay down facts from what I've encountered in game.

Cass did not trick Priscilla at all, she was simply aware of her intent to poison the king. Priscilla's side was also from what I understand unaware of her intentions, it was something she decided to do for herself, they never intended to start a Coup or cause any form of damage to the Empire. She also didn't intend to start a Coup or to damage the Empire, she just wanted to get rid of the person she believed killed her sister. Let's not forget that they weren't in a position to do anything to the Empire at the time since they themselves were on the verge of a Rebellion/Civil War.

Onto the idea of Cass setting fire to the capital, one of two things happened here. Either one she gave the order or two she's incompetent and can't control her own men, there's no room to argue this or to try to weasel out of it at least not with what we currently have. Any other cause for it is either incredibly unlikely or we have no evidence to support.

For the final point being Cass's mental state. She is utterly insane, this isn't up for debate she simply is, the game acknowledges that she is.
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More evidence for her lack of sanity or rather mental instability is just how prone to violence she is, let's not forget that she slashed the MC's face when they were kids over an argument that really hadn't escalated to that point yet. She's also fully willing to kill anyone who get's in her path and has absolutely no qualms with murdering innocents if she needs to.

Anyway, this is my final message on the matter, if you don't agree at this point your clearly not going to no matter what anyone say's or gives you as evidence. Any further debate on the matter is pointless.
 

storm1051787

Active Member
Mar 23, 2019
770
1,209
Cass did not trick Priscilla at all, she was simply aware of her intent to poison the king.
We agree on this, the other poster was arguing the opposite.
hey never intended to start a Coup or cause any form of damage to the Empire.
This part, not only do I not agree with but is factually wrong as Cass admits to working with her uncle to start a coup. The only thing you can really argue is how much involvement Priscilla had
Onto the idea of Cass setting fire to the capital, one of two things happened here. Either one she gave the order or two she's incompetent and can't control her own men, there's no room to argue this or to try to weasel out of it at least not with what we currently have. Any other cause for it is either incredibly unlikely or we have no evidence to support.
You're forgetting a third possible answer and that a bunch of fighting started and a fire broke out. My point is there is no evidence for who or why the fire was started. Their arguing was just that Cass intentionally started a fire just because she's crazy.


So already twice now you've agreed with me on the other poster's evidence being flawed despite you defending their "evidence" which was basically just a bunch of out of context unrelated quotes.(kind of makes me suspect you only skimmed through the convo)

For the final point being Cass's mental state. She is utterly insane, this isn't up for debate she simply is, the game acknowledges that she is.
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The problem is that the white path involves about a month or two of court politics and Cass battling dissenters and includes several events that don't happen on the green or red path. Cass being broken after a month long siege while is not evidence she's been like that the whole game.


Frankly I don't really care if you actually think Cass is crazy or not. The biggest issue I had with the other poster is their isnstance that Cass intentionally started the fire and tricked Priscilla. You already agreed withtat the first claim lacks evidence and that the second claim is wrong. I don't actually care whether or not you like Cass or think the coup was morally right or wrong. I think you're entitled to that opinion even if I disagree with it.

let's not forget that she slashed the MC's face when they were kids over an argument
If we're going with this argument than the MC is crazy too since he stabbed out her eye. Honestly their fighting just seemed like normal sibling fighting and the mistake is that they shouldn't have been given a knife. Children are naturally irrational and over emotional, I've seen kids get into physical fights over incredibly dumb stuff. Cass at least was remorseful about the whole thing. Both Cass slashing the mc and the Mc stabbing Cass were accidents.
She's also fully willing to kill anyone who get's in her path and has absolutely no qualms with murdering innocents if she needs to

Again I don't really see how this is evidence of madness. You can debate the ethic and morality sure, I don't really care. But not everyone who is cruel is insane. The ends justify the means for some people, it's not the same as killing people for fun.
 

Marvoch

Newbie
Aug 24, 2023
53
128
It seems to me that you've gotten lost in a rabbit hole. Is the coup necessary?
  1. There have been many legitimate heirs to the throne throughout history who have dethroned their fathers (even committing patricide), so this is not an unprecedented course of action.
  2. Cass had been preparing this plan for a long time, so it wasn’t a last-minute decision. Cass is a mix of patriotism, vengeful spirit and ambition, and the best way she found to reconcile these drives was to get rid of her father (without killing him for political reasons), take control of the kingdom, and use her brother as a stabilizing factor—united by brotherly bonds and the torment their father inflicted upon them. And yes, the poisoning happened under Cass’s orders, since I noticed some confusion on the matter. Things had been set in motion a long time ago.
  3. Some say he should have waited years to take the throne, others say he should have waited only a little while; we have no way of knowing either way. There are chronically ill people who survive for years, while others die within months. You can’t make plans based on that. So we shouldn't consider it. The kingdom was already dying at present.
  4. For those who wanted the MC to take the reins: the protagonist is neither a strategist, nor a statesman, nor a master spy, nor someone driven by strong political ambition and huge projects. You have to accept him for who he is. He is not devoid of desires, but he is a fish out of water due to being raised away from court. The fact that he has to rely on others is both a necessity and a consequence of that. He doesn’t have a powerful faction of his own making and is therefore a ship adrift in a stormy sea.
 

zandalari

Active Member
May 4, 2019
514
2,534
Mofos thinking that an exiled heir who spent his time drinking and whoring at random taverns is Valkorion reborn :KEK:

"Lemme just take over the kingdom with all the several people that I know at the court and beat the spymaster's plan through an afternoon of action" :KEK:
 

bfc233

Member
Jul 31, 2023
118
211
I'm honestly more intrigued by the things we learned about the mirror this round.

Reflections that can be twisted, twins that are reflections that stay the same but eventually diverge, blessings of great power at yet unfathomable costs...

Blood inheritance has gotten more interesting with the mention of another line.

I am not sure I like that LM is still building mystery, as it speaks of a very long story still ahead of us, but I like the way he's doing it. Layering on facts we know since early on is a good technique.
 
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bfc233

Member
Jul 31, 2023
118
211
It seems to me that you've gotten lost in a rabbit hole. Is the coup necessary?
  1. There have been many legitimate heirs to the throne throughout history who have dethroned their fathers (even committing patricide), so this is not an unprecedented course of action.
  2. Cass had been preparing this plan for a long time, so it wasn’t a last-minute decision. Cass is a mix of patriotism, vengeful spirit and ambition, and the best way she found to reconcile these drives was to get rid of her father (without killing him for political reasons), take control of the kingdom, and use her brother as a stabilizing factor—united by brotherly bonds and the torment their father inflicted upon them. And yes, the poisoning happened under Cass’s orders, since I noticed some confusion on the matter. Things had been set in motion a long time ago.
  3. Some say he should have waited years to take the throne, others say he should have waited only a little while; we have no way of knowing either way. There are chronically ill people who survive for years, while others die within months. You can’t make plans based on that. So we shouldn't consider it. The kingdom was already dying at present.
  4. For those who wanted the MC to take the reins: the protagonist is neither a strategist, nor a statesman, nor a master spy, nor someone driven by strong political ambition and huge projects. You have to accept him for who he is. He is not devoid of desires, but he is a fish out of water due to being raised away from court. The fact that he has to rely on others is both a necessity and a consequence of that. He doesn’t have a powerful faction of his own making and is therefore a ship adrift in a stormy sea.
In regards to monarchy, the problem you're missing here is the, ironically, quite common idea of entering a temporary diarchy. Indeed it's quite common for a king to give his heir an important court position to learn the fundamentals of ruling, through which they accumulate both contacts, skills and influence that often ends up making them a diarch in all but name by the time inheritance becomes a serious consideration. The quickly declining health of the king would have put MC in a position of being the de facto ruler soon enough, especially considering the difference in the speed with which he and his father are aging.

Mofos thinking that an exiled heir who spent his time drinking and whoring at random taverns is Valkorion reborn :KEK:

"Lemme just take over the kingdom with all the several people that I know at the court and beat the spymaster's plan through an afternoon of action" :KEK:
You laugh, but MC had the two things he needed to make a move in that situation: information and contacts. Everything else boils down to taking the initiative to become a player that needs to be reacted to instead of reacting, which you can only do if you know what lies ahead. That's how you turn a tactics game around.

Jesus Christ, this was some unintentional double post nonsense.
 
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Gicoo

Well-Known Member
Feb 18, 2018
1,602
4,332
Mediating again, there are two stances:

1. The coup makes sense from Cass point of view, as she had planning it along and can't completely depend on MC, regardless if he is on board with it or not.
2. The coup doesn't make sense from MC point of view, since he just came back.

The problem is what was mentioned initially, the decision to make MC a fish out of water without knowlegde.
About him not acting like a sovereign, again he just returned from 10 years in exiles, in those 10 years hes basically a civilian with money. If suddenly after the coup he start acting like a King would then it would be completely out of character. I agree that that needs to happen, just not right now, he needs to face and overcome more challenges, then either grow to be a Emperor that rules with and iron fist or a benevolent King that bring peace to both elves and humans.
The crux is that Lazy Monkey choose to make him that way and many (including me) can't immerse themselves in the MC because it forces him to be reactive and depending on his love interests agencies, since he is a clean slate.
 
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Zakharova

Newbie
Jan 9, 2025
67
187
Has this forum turned into a competition to write a PhD thesis on Imperial Chronicles? I have the best arguments in Cass's defense...

First, Cass is hot.
Second, she's more interesting than the entire family cast in the game.
Third, she's mentally unstable, which adds a considerable amount of points to her sex appeal... and last but not least... she wears an eyepatch.
 
Nov 24, 2024
47
122
This St0rhm is a psychopath he doesn't care about innocent lives. I'm not going to be surprised if this guy is going to defend what Conquest did from Invincibles. Killing Innocent lives just because she's at her "Lowest point" Oh Bohoooo Yada Yada Yada Yada.

"I want revenge because they did this to me" Wa Wa Wa Wa Wa. Can you like shut your ass up? It's not good reason to kill innocent lives just because you want revenge you are just straight up evil savage maniac and of course this Mr.Psychopath is going to defend these maniacs of course I'm not surprised and never will be.


Again by "In Game" evidences

Screenshot (65).png Screenshot (64).png

And what is the correlation and similarities of these Savage Maniacs Conquest or Cassandra? Of course they give "FEAR" to people. Because they are maniacs and savages that doesn't give a shit about Innocent lives they only want chaos, destruction, and power. Then now you are telling me that Cassandra isn't manipulating the Mc? Hah don't make me laugh with your nonsense statement because it is pointless and invalid. Doesn't make any sense.

You need to seek Help like ASAP because your beliefs and opinions will going to destroy you. Talk to your parents or something. Or pity for you if you don't have parents to guide you because this is not right, lmaoooo this is a circus show.
View attachment 0318(1).mp4
 
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Zakharova

Newbie
Jan 9, 2025
67
187
This guy is a psychopath he doesn't care about innocent lives. I'm not going to be surprised if this guy is going to defend what Conquest did from Invincibles. Killing Innocent lives just because he's at his "Lowest point" Oh Bohoooo Yada Yada Yada Yada.

"I want revenge because they did this to me" Wa Wa Wa Wa Wa. Can you like shut your ass up? It's not good reason to kill innocent lives just because you want revenge you are just straight up evil savage maniac and of course this Mr.Psychopath is going to defend these maniacs of course I'm not surprised and never will be.


Again by "In Game" evidences

View attachment 4658546 View attachment 4658547

And what is the correlation and similarities of these Savage Maniacs Conquest or Cassandra? Of course they give "FEAR" to people. Because they are maniacs and savages that doesn't give a shit about Innocent lives they only want chaos, destruction, and power. Then now you are telling me that Cassandra isn't manipulating the Mc? Hah don't make me laugh with your nonsense statement because it is pointless and invalid. Doesn't make any sense.

You need to seek Help like ASAP because your beliefs and opinions will going to destroy you. Talk to your parents or something. Or pity for you if you don't have parents to guide you because this is not right, lmaoooo this is a circus show.
View attachment 4658549
Well... in my gameplay, only two people died in my coup d'état, a soldier and the dying king.

So in a way, siding with Cass is the most peaceful way out, with the least number of human losses.
 
Nov 24, 2024
47
122
Well... in my gameplay, only two people died in my coup d'état, a soldier and the dying king.

So in a way, siding with Cass is the most peaceful way out, with the least number of human losses.
and two innocent lives will get killed every month if you have bookworm perks. Just to maintain the vampire guy. I actually don't know the point of this shit. but here it is

Screenshot (53).png

You see the violent intentions just to get in "Power" and the worst will come more overtime
 

Zakharova

Newbie
Jan 9, 2025
67
187
and two innocent lives will get killed every month if you have bookworm perks. Just to maintain the vampire guy. I actually don't know the point of this shit. but here it is

View attachment 4658568

You see the violent intentions just to get in "Power" and the worst will come more overtime
but I didn't make any deal with the vampire, and I'm on the warrior's path... and I'll say it just one more time.... I AM LOYAL TO THIS FUCKING SOCIOPATHIC BITCH!!!! I SWORE TO MARRY HER AT THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME AND IF SHE DECIDES TO DROP NAPALM ON AN ENTIRE CITY I WILL DO IT WITH PLEASURE BECAUSE HER PUSSY IS WORTH AN ENTIRE EMPIRE!!!
 
Nov 24, 2024
47
122
but I didn't make any deal with the vampire, and I'm on the warrior's path... and I'll say it just one more time.... I AM LOYAL TO THIS FUCKING SOCIOPATHIC BITCH!!!! I SWORE TO MARRY HER AT THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME AND IF SHE DECIDES TO DROP NAPALM ON AN ENTIRE CITY I WILL DO IT WITH PLEASURE BECAUSE HER PUSSY IS WORTH AN ENTIRE EMPIRE!!!
Here's the crash out at least you are aware that Cassandra is a savage freak unlike the other guy he is squeezing the shit out his way just to defend Cassandra has good intentions and a good girl. Can't wait Cassandra going to betray and manipulate the Mc it will be embarrassing


Add a subheading (1).png
View attachment 0318(1).mp4
 
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